UW RL

please educate me regarding overseers and understeers what are the advantages of oversteering vs understeering and vice-versa. I know that a little bit of oversteering is better but why? Thanks guys!!!

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Comptech springs
Polarg M-12 Side signals
Pikkachu on the back window

Gomez

Non-technical answer: oversteer is where the tail slides out, understeer is where the front tires 'push' and the car doesn't turn as tightly as the angle of the front tires would suggest.

Understeer in front wheel drive cars can be adjusted by increasing throttle. Just gas it more and the extra 'clawing' power of the front wheels will help it turn more sharply.

As far as which is better, that's a tough one. Enthusiasts and racers will prefer oversteer, but understeer is safer in the real world. With oversteer one can more easily steer with the throttle and clip apexes, but understeer keeps the tail from 'wagging' and possibly saves your *ss from going over a cliff by sliding wildly out of control. I've had cars that exhibited both: my RX-7 oversteers a lot, and my old Prelude had major understeer. Oversteer can be a lot of fun and is good for cutting up curvy canyon roads, but it's also come close to giving me a heart attack more than once! It's especially evil in the rain and snow.

In theory, the ideal would be a car with totally neutral steering, one that neither over nor understeered. AWD cars are prehapd most beholden to this school of thought. Unless you're autocrossing, your FWD understeering TL will be the best choice for real-world driving and a heck of a lot safer. Hope this helps!

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'01 pearlescent white
-Wing, tint, cop-finder
'88 White RX-7 Convertible
-Permanent tinitus courtesy of Rockford-Fosgate

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AcuraJoe

There are two main reasons why understeer is a bit better. One is that it is easier to correct and second is that you know at least where you are going.

hunter001

I would think that a truly neutral car would be dangerous in the hands of a person who is not a "Pro" since it is always on the verge of oversteer which could theoretically take the car into an un-controllable spin... hence carmakers build in under-steer into their streetgoing cars (even ones like the mid-engined NSX)...since there is a lot of opportunity to take corrective action...


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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

Gomez

Well, I said "in theory" for a reason... Your scenario where the car is right on the verge of oversteering out of control is perhaps mis-directed. Many cars that oversteer do so gradually, where the tail slides out more and more in a controlled fashion. Hey, the automakers don't want to kill anyone!

Furthermore, neutral handling is what you already get in your TL driving below the handling limit, which is how we spend perhaps 99% of our driving time. You turn the front wheels 5 degrees, the car turns 5 degrees. That's neutral. If the car only turns 4 degrees, that's understeer, and oversteer is obviously where the car steers more than you turned it.

The "in theory" part is that 100% neutral handling is unattainable with the present state of engineering. When cornering harder and harder something's gonna give, and it's one or more of the tires. If you had perfectly neutral handling in all situations, the car would be able to turn 180 degrees at top speed. Now, THAT would be ideal! Imagine the G-forces you'd be able to pull - you'd have to wear a pressurized suit, and still, a hairpin turn at top speed would kill any human...

In a review of the new M3, the testers lamented that the previous generation's oversteer had been replaced with nearly neutral handling w/ a vauge hint of understeer. Not at all pleasing for those of us who like to drive sideways through the twisties, but great for saftey. However, they pointed out that the car understeered at the limit.

(I can't believe Einstein hasn't chimed in yet on this one?!?)

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'01 pearlescent white
-Wing, tint, cop-finder
'88 White RX-7 Convertible
-Permanent tinitus courtesy of Rockford-Fosgate

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Gomez on 11-21-2000 @ ]</font>

TLinBama

Yes oversteer is safer, which was designed into my all wheel drive Talon. I did have it in a 4 wheel drift at about 110 though. After coming out of the turn, I thanked God for about 10 minutes straight because if I had gone off the road and into the ravine I would have surely died in the middle of an El Paso desert. I drove the speed limit for the next month which is unheard of for me!!

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John

2000 TL WDP Nav

Guest

Exactly the opposite, applying throtle during a hard corner, where a front wheel drive car exhibits the most understeer, will onlt make the situation worse. The throttle must be relaxed in order to recover the path of action. Unless of course the car has an LSD similar to that in the Prelude Type SH...

actually a perfectly nuetral car would by far be the easiest to drive. The car would be able to push the limits of the suspension, chasis, and tires without oversteer or understeer afftecting the course of action. A car whose charecteristics you are describing would be considered nuetral, with both over and understeer at the limit, much like the current Mustang GT..

Furthermore, a cars handling charecteristics are not predetermined by its drivetrain configuration. Oversteer can simply be induced by overinflating the rear tires, and adjusting spring rates, damper rates, and roll bar width in the rear. This works both ways as well in a high powered rear wheel drive car trying to induce more nuetral handling.





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Yes, I'm LegendTodd, shudup already

Gomez

TorqueNazi said: "Exactly the opposite, applying throtle during a hard corner, where a front wheel drive car exhibits the most understeer, will onlt make the situation worse. The throttle must be relaxed in order to recover the path of action. Unless of course the car has an LSD similar to that in the Prelude Type SH..."

Uh, have you tried this or are you pulling this from thin air? I speak from yrs of experience, perhaps you are just relying on your Uncle Jed.

And no, I don't mean flooring it to where the tires spin like crazy. Just a corrective dip into the throttle will help ya turn tighter. Or perhaps some alien has replaced my memories with false ones, and the editors of al the car buff mags are wrong...

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'01 pearlescent white
-Wing, tint, cop-finder
'88 White RX-7 Convertible
-Permanent tinitus courtesy of Rockford-Fosgate

Guest

yup, right out of thin air

suddenly more specific, now you are correct.
you said...

I'm no English major but this implied further acceleration into the turn, which would only shift the weight off the front wheels to the rear. Making it impossible for the "extra clawing power" to help "turn more sharply." Now that you've elaborated I understand where you're coming from, but the fact is weight transfer is still taking place to the rear, not the front. Although what you are saying is true, transferring weight to the front of the car by braking and then readjusting on the throttle would be your best bet. Better hope to have some sticky rubber on whatever car your driving this way...

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by TorqueNazi on 11-22-2000 @ ]</font>

Gomez

OK, Nazi - we cool, bro. I'm too lazy to launch into a full physical dynamics discussion on all that, but we b on the same page. I was just taking the easu way out in my explainations. Maybe one of these days I'll sign up for the Skip Barber racing school.

Notice that "UW TL" who started this thread has yet to chime back in! Hope you followed all that BS we posted, UW TL...

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'01 pearlescent white
-Wing, tint, cop-finder
'88 White RX-7 Convertible
-Permanent tinitus courtesy of Rockford-Fosgate

UW RL

haha.. i have been busy reading your posts and digesting them. I have to thank you for your replies and thoughts. Really appreciate it.. The reason why i asked that is that i was getting some sway bars and was deciding wheather or not just to get the rear one.

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Comptech springs
Polarg M-12 Side signals
Pikkachu on the back window

Guest

Naw, you guys are doing OK without me!

I would probably start babbling about slip angles, weight transfer, and other mumbo jumbo...

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2000 3.2 TL, Paper maps.
Comptech axle-back exhaust.
225/55ZR-16 RE730s on OEM alloys.
205/55QR-16 Alpins on steel wheels w/covers (winter).

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