Guest

I own a ten-year old Honda Prelude and am currently considering upgrading to either a CL or a TL-S. My biggest problem: I LOVE to drive a manual transmission. One of the greatest joys of my life is a perfect fourth-to-second downshift on a tight curve. But the local Acura dealer tells me that unless I get an Integra (don't want it) or an NSX (want it, but probably couldn't even afford the insurance), a manual transmission isn't an option. I just don't know if I can stand driving a car that doesn't give me the option of pushing in that clutch.

Has anyone on this list moved from a manual transmission into a CL or TL, and if so, what do you think about it? Can I still get the true joy of driving with this hybrid transmission?

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"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
-- Richard Feynman

RAdams

My previous car was a 1997 GS-R coupe that I turbocharged... and I miss that gearbox (hands down one of the world's best).

With that said, anyone who's followed my posts on the subject would probably assume I dislike the SportShift -- I don't at all, but I don't use it very often at all. It affords you some manual control which is cool, but I think it works particularly well in full automatic mode. It'll hold the lower gears right up to redline when you romp on it (with SS you can hold it a bit longer and hit the rev limiter), and it downshifts without much prodding. It truly is a great car and I'm sure you'll enjoy it should you choose to buy one.

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2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV

Guest

I just traded in a 97 Prelude 5-Spd for an 01 TL. I have only driven it 150 miles so far, so I can't really say I am used to the automatic yet, but it is nice. If I could have afforded to keep the Prelude for pure driving fun, I would have. But here in north Texas, most of the roads are strait, the roads around town are rough, and the long distance drives are long! So, the TL is a better choice for a daily driver. As for the sport shift, it's not really fair to compare it to a true manual trans, because it's not. It is a nice feature for what has got to be one of the finest automatic transmissions in the world. I have driven my father's 2000 Mercedes E320, and the TL is just as smooth and has the added benefit of the sport shift.

Bottom line, If you are thinking of using the TL in sport shift mode all the time, then stick with a manual trans car. I have always told myself and others that if I ever bought an automatic, it would have to be a really good one, and the TL's is.

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Guest

My preference will always be for a manual transmission! But the trend these days in automakers seems to be leaning toward automatics only -- even in trucks, which makes no sense to me at all. Frankly, I was shocked to learn that I can't get a TL in a manual. I'm a lifelong Honda/Acura fan -- if I can't get a TL, but I want a high quality, well-built performance sedan with comfy seating for four, a quiet cabin and looks that set it apart from all the K-cars out there -- and a manual transmission -- all for around $30K, what are my options? And what was Acura thinking when they took away the manual transmission?


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"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
-- Richard Feynman

oblio98

2 years ago I went from a 5-Sp Maxima to my 99TL. I never wanted an automatic, but I REALLY liked the TL and the NAV, so I bit the bullet and got it. It took a while, but I got used to it. I use the sportshift on highway entrance ramps some of the time, esp if I have to make a tough merge. It was REALLY helpful, however, just this week. We had over a foot of snow fall during the day, and I left work at 1:15 heading for home early. The trip usually takes 25 minutes, but it took 3 1/2 hours. Streets were not plowed, and there was 3-4 inches on the roadsurfaces. I used the sportshifter, mostly in 1st and 2nd just as if it were a standard, and it was great. (The traction control came in handy too!) Bottom line, if you like the car, you can live with it. If, however, I could get a TL-S in a standard, I still would! <g>

Lrpba300

Hi Fletcher, Welcome 2 the board. I'll tell you this, I've driven lots of yrs, all w/ manual trans. I thought I'd never have an automatic! I found that like oblio98 said, I use the SS mode mostly because of poor weather, in traffic, around town, getting on hiways. It works very well, & I found I wasn't missing the "clutching" that much, & I started 2 enjoy driving an automatic sometimes. The SS mode gives you the closest thing 2 a standard out there, that isn't a stick shift! Test drive the car & try ALL modes. It may fool ya!



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2000 3.2 TL Laguna Green
29% window tint, Clear bra, no nav
225/50/16 Aqua-Flow GTW's on OEM wheels
[URL=http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/lrpba300?d&.flabel=fld3&.src=ph[/URL]

SoundSpeed

I am lazy as hell and do not like to work while driving, so I stick to automatic. Remember this is not a car built toward faster driving like the prelude or integra, this is built more toward luxury with some nice pick-up when you stomp the accelerator.

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"Man thinks that, they own things And man sits high upon thrones
When you die tell me what the fvck you own
When your skin, flesh, and bones find a permanent home
As food for worms or fossils trapped in stone."

s2ktaxi

The problem with the automatic transmissions is the torque converter - on the CL-S the C lockup is not good enough - it makes it harder to modulate the throttle to control the car in at the limit turns. Also, you don't feel as good as a driver - not being able to execute those perfect heel-toe downshifts.

s2ktaxi

I would not be able to have an SS transmissioned car as my only car - I wish Honda would introduce a 4 door sport sedan with a manual transmission.

Guest

Thanks, all, for your input. I do intend to test drive a TL (Type S, if I can find one at my dealer before it vanishes off the lot!) and check out the transmission for myself. Most of you have confirmed my suspicion, however, which is that even the SS mode on one of the finest transmissions out there still cannot substitute for the sheer joy of driving a manual.

I live on the central Oregon coast, and we have straight sections on our highways about once every twelve miles. If you don't like curves, you shouldn't live here. I happen to love curves, and I love figuring out exactly how to take them with maximum speed and smoothness -- and in the perfect gear. So it sounds like I might love a TL for the comfort, power and fine engineering it offers -- but I'll have to keep my Prelude for pure driving fun.

Now -- if for some reason you could NOT get a TL, and you wanted a car just as well-built and stylish with a manual transmission for about the same price, what would you look at?

Guest

I too have had difficulty in deciding to move from a manual ... although I now plan on getting a 2002 TL-S. If you cannot live without a manual, take a look at the Nissan Maxima SE ... I was very impressed with it ... it's not quite as refined, although not bad with leather, it gets to 60 mph in 6.7 seconds, has a higher skid pad than the 2001 TL, more aggressive tires and you can get it with a 5 speed! It, like the Acura, is a great value ... and it's less expensive than the Acura, although it's resale is not as good. Good Luck!

P.S. It also has a closer to the road feel than the Acura ... very tight, responsive handling and throttle response, yet it is also quiet (but not as comfortable/refined). You can get a look at its specs at Nissandriven.com, and Car and Driver's web site (caranddriver.com) has a recent road test.

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Gomez

Assuming the car could not be a two-seater (if so then it would have to be a Z3), then I say look into a 325i and have it special-ordered w/o all the silly options and you'll save a bundle. I almost got a 325 with wood, leather and the Harmon-Kardon w/ CD stereo and it would have been about $30k.

If you haven't driven a 3 since they've been redesigned then you owe it to yourself to at least check it out - the car has really matured since the last generation!



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'01 White Diamond Pearl 3.2TL
-Wing, wood, tint and Whistler

Shoofin

That's why The TL is auto and my Miata is Manual! I get the best of both worlds!
Ed

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Acura-TL.com - Forum Moderator

'99 TL Satin Silver/Ebony, Non/Nav, Comptech lowered, Comptech Air Filter Element, Inspire Tails, AEM Brake Pads all around, Comptech Axle Back Exhaust, "Guy Smiley" doll on the dash as my Co-driver...

Pics of my TL
Pics of my Miata! Wadya think?

ChrisK

That is why I will never sell my Acura Legend Coupe 6-Speed It's funny. Acura dropped the manual because they said it did not sell well in the Legend. Now if you check the Legend forums, you will see how much in demand this car is. I love taking my acr back to the dealer for service. Some of the new lot boys there never knew there was such a car built. People ask me if I put the trans in, or if it came that way. I feel bad though because I let the paint go a bit. I guess a new paint job is in the future.

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Chris K.

ryang

I thought I heard somewhere on the board here that they were going to make a TL-S 6 speed manual (like the old 94/95 Legends)? That's the one I'm going to get. hehe

Correct me if I'm wrong...

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2000 Acura 3.2 TL Black
Hopefully rims someday, springs too, inspire tails would be nice, dream list goes on.........

SoundSpeed

No six speed for 2002 TLS. Maybe future models though.



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"Man thinks that, they own things And man sits high upon thrones
When you die tell me what the fvck you own
When your skin, flesh, and bones find a permanent home
As food for worms or fossils trapped in stone."

Edward'TLS

Even if all members in the Legend forums buy one manual-shifted Legend, it still represents a very small proportion, may be 5 to 8 percents of the total Legend buying population. This small percentage does not justify Honda to spend millions of dollars into developing a new manual transmission for the car. Do you really think Honda is dumb ?

ChrisK

Well, you be the judge. Honda may not be dumb, but they sure are not worried about keeping their long time Acura owners that helped make the Acura division a success back in 1986. I'm a 4 time Acura owner, and currently still own two late model Legend Coupes. I am not the only long time Acura owner that basically feels Acura has told us to go look else where when it is time to replace our aging cars. While Honda/Acura may have succeded in bringing in a new crowed of Acura owners, it is plain to see that they are not interested in the original Acura buyer. I love Acura, and still wish to buy another.

So sure, while Honda may save money by not offereing a manual to the minority of people out there that may want it, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are sure picking up the ball, and customers that Honda choose to pass.

I still can't see how Acura, a luxury division line that wants to compete in the luxury market, can't offer something that the competition has.

By the way, from your post it sounds like you thought I was bashing the TL-S, and took offence. If so, I'm sorry for that, as that was not the intent. Although I don't post here that often, I think if people were to look back at all my post, they would see that I am very much a TL fan, especially the upcoming TL-S I've had the good furtune of seeing both Tanner, and Deans modified TLs out here in Hawaii in person, and I've become even a bigger fan of the TL now.




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Chris K.

Edward'TLS

I'm sorry to have given you the impression that you thought I thought you were bashing the TL-S or any Honda's. I certainly didn't mean that.

Let's look at the issue from another angle. Honda is in a different position than BMW, Mercedes, and Audi, which are all European car manufacturers. Each one of them has a bigger market share of annual car sales in Europe than Honda because of their geographic locations. A "domestic" BMW 323i was cheaper than an imported Honda Accord in Europe until Honda started building factories in Europe a couple years ago. The gas price there is many times per gallon higher than ours. The landscape is more hilly than ours. As a result, Europeans buy a lot more manual-shifted cars than auto-shifted cars. In fact, there are two types of driving licenses in many European countries. One for driving tests with manual-shifted cars and one for tests with auto-shifted cars. People who have only the auto-trans licenses cannot drive manual-trans cars, unlike us here.

So when the European manufacturers sell the manual cars here, there is no additional development cost involved. In fact, it is to their benefits because they can now build more manual cars and spread out the development cost. The "Acura line" (still Honda in Europe) in Europe is not selling well. The Honda Accord is. So they have the Accords (not just the type-R's) with manual transmissions to suit the European's need.

The bulk of Honda's and most importantly Acura's car sales and profits come not from Japan nor Europe, but from North America. So it is natural that Honda tailers its cars for the NA markets according to NA buyers' needs, one of which is that they buy/desire more auto than manual cars. In other words, if Honda develops a new manual transaxle, NA is the only place it can recoup the development cost.

In a business point of view, Honda has to decide whether it is worthwhile to put millions of dollars in the red just to win the hearts of a small percentage of loyal Honda buyers, and Honda has made the choice.

BLEXV6

I presently have an Accord V6 (1998) which I thought was powerful. The other day I test drove a 2001 TL and I could not believe the acceleration and how the wheels chirped upon hard acceleration. I wonder how the TL-S will be. Anyway, the TL is smooth and quiet. I didn't have much time to play with the SS, but it seemed kind of useless (perhaps I was not using it properly). I still will be getting the TL or TLS soon. Note in Canada, the price of the new TLS is 41 K and CLS 40 K. I asked the dealer why and he said it had 2 more doors. What a bunch of horseshit. The Accord coupe ans sedan comparably equipped are the same price. It sounds like a cash grab.