Hi Guys,

I am in the market for a car, and after testdriving, I know that the Acura TL-S is it.

However, I cringe at the new car prices and have decided to focus on a used 2002 TL-S. Two are currently available at local dealerships (Denver Metro).

The first one is a 2002 TLS w Navi. It has 461 miles on it.

The second is a 2002 TLS without Navi. It has 4000 miles on it.

Here's my question, guys. What is reasonable price to pay for either of these automobiles? Where should my starting point be for negotiations? I am open to either car, but don't want to put off the dealership by making unreasonable offers. At what point should I start the negotiations and what is a reasonable range?

I am thinking 28k-29k for the TLS with Navi and 26k-27k for the TLS without Navi. Am I being reasonable? Too low? to high?

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Any success stories of techniques that worked for you would be great.

Thanks,

Vasant.

 

I think that $28K for TLS with Navi is more than reasonable for used one.

Why do you even want a used TLS? Why not a new one?

 

For real. If you're willing to pay 27-28 k for it, what is a couple more grand? You can get a brand new one for 30-31.

 

I agree with him on buying a used TL. With a brand new TL you get depreciation right when you roll off of the lot. With a used, it seems that the depreciation is absorbed. I've actually thought about this but haven't seriously considered it, but I understand

 

These must be demos or manager's rides. I had considered one of those before buying myne. Here's what the dealership was offering (one of those no hassle or haggle price dealers):

02' TL , Aegean Blue, spoiler, 400 miles: $27,000 (not a Type S, no nav)
02' CL Type S, with Spoiler, tinting, 400 miles: $28K (actually more than a new one because of the "extras"

You will need to consider if these used cars have any extras on it, like a spoiler, body kit, etc.

Here's another example of something we purchased. We just bought a 2001 Toyota 4Runner with 3,970 miles on it (it was a Toyota press pool car). Anyway, new this car would cost $30,000, we bought it used for $25,978.15....and it had only been titled to Toyota and is "certified" and still under factory warranty. Pretty much a no brainer as long as you can confirm that the vehicle was not thrased out. You may want to apply that scale to the TL Type S.

I purchased a hail damaged Type S (and will replace the hood and trunk later)....that yielded a brand new Type S (40 miles on it) at a close to $4k discount. Replacing the hood/trunk will run a $1k tops...so i still saved $3k in the long run.


The Type S, new, with Nav is $33,710, w/o nav: $31,710

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.nc3?kbb.CO;462467&80211;car&6;Acura;2002%20TL&M1M3A6&

Knocking off $3,500 would make it:
w/ nav $30,210
w/o nav $28,210

Of course, if you decide to offer less, that is your decision.

 

those cars are probably gone by now. keep us posted though...

 

You could certainly use the fact that 'for a few more grand you could have a new one' as a bargaining point. I doubt you'll get a lot of money knocked off since a lot of dealers are selling these for MSRP no dealing. You may have better luck in larger cities, but I know that when I bought mine, they had pre-sold 3 of the first 5 that they had coming and weren't going to get any more for another month+, they weren't going to make any deals because they were one of 3 acura dealers in the state, they were the first to get them in, and they new that they didn't have to make any deals because they were gonna sell.

I would find out if these were dealer drivers, I'm not sure that I would want one of those, I have seen how some of these guys drive them....what break-in period???...

Mine was going to be the managers demo (he had already ordered the body kit for it...thanks...) , but I wanted the black so the salesman sold it to me and the manager had to settle for whatever color was left.

 

I would never buy a demo car. Who knows how the car has been driven? Besides, if you're buying a new car, don't you want it to be new? I mean, some fat, nose picking GM was driving around in that car, and eating McDonalds, drinking coffee, and farting into your perforated leather!

Spend the extra and get what you deserve.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. Keep those suggestions coming! I will let you know the results so that others may have some kind of reference point.

BTW, neither car is a dealer demo. The first one (TLS witn Navi and 461 miles) was a distress sale back to the dealer due to a divorce. At least this is what the saleman told me on the phone. This car will be sold as a used car and not as a demo (new) car.

The other (TLS without Navi and 4000 miles) is also a used car -- not a dealer demo.

I have not seen either of these cars (I have test driven the TLS at a third dealership so I know that I want the car. I just have to decide on the condition of these used cars, and then make an offer. I am making the assumption that both cars are in excellent condition).

I will be visiting both dealerships soon to make an offer. Since I am keen to own one of these cars, I don't want to antagonize the dealership by starting with an offer that is too low.

What is a good starting point for the negotiations. I would like to make an offer that is reasonable -- an offer that will save me the initial depreciation on the car AND one that the dealer will not sneer at!

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.

Vasant.

 

What is the asking price from the dealer? Since the model is too new to find any public info. and the price.

 

I agree 100% with tea elle.... if you're spending this type of money on this kind of car, lay out the extra $2-$4k and get the car brand new. You have no idea what this car has been through, at least with a new car, it's yours right off the bat. The fact that they are used cars is even worse. Regardless of the reason they were traded in, they were probably abused. Don't you find it odd that someone would spend between $30k-$34k for a car to trade it in at either 4000 or 450 miles? Sounds strange. I picked up my car with 4 miles on it. It came fresh from the factory, so I knew what I was getting. Figure if you can get the no navi model for around $27-$28k you're only saving a little bit. I got mine, brand new, for $29,500. Spend the extra $2k and get the car new.... you'll thank yourself in the long run and you're not buying someone elses $27k headache.....

 

I could not get a definitive price from the dealerships. That's understandable since we were talking on the phone. Here's what I did get from our conversations:

For the TLS with Navi, the salesman says " You know, this is a $34,000 car. But since this is a used car, there is some room to work with."

For the TLS without NAVI and 4000 miles the sales manager said "upper 20's."

So you can see the reason why I am seeking help from the forum. Since there is no published material, it's hard to gauge what a good starting point would be for either of these negotiations!

Thank you, for the suggestions. I really appreciate them and they do help in bolstering my confidence. Keep them coming!

Vasant.

 

I'm not a big fan of used car. Why would you want a used TL-S if you can afford 29K? You don't (and probably won't) know how the car was driven during the first few hundred miles. An extra 2K will a get you a brand new one. Give it a 2nd thought.

 

MY TWO CENTS:

I WOULD NOT WANT TO BUY THE CARS I TEST-DROVE AT THE DELARSHIP. WHY? BECAUSE I DROVE THE **** OUT OF THEM.
IF I KNEW I WAS GETTING RID OF A POWERFUL CAR LIKE TL-S I'D REV IT TO THE MAX FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS, HAVE FUN WITH IT, AND THEN SELL IT.
YOU'RE GETTING AN ENGINE THAT SOME JERK TOOK ALL OF HIS DIVORCE ANGER ON FOR NOT A WHOLE LOT LESS.

 

Juniorbean,

You got your 02 TL, Type S for $29,500? Who did you kill to get this price? That's incredible. I would expect that price on a regular TL, but not on a Type S. Excellent price!

 

I agree. Chances are that the care wasn't abused, but putting forth a couple more thousand is buying peace of mind. Also consider that if you're getting a loan, you'll usually save a bit on the APR if you get a new auto loan vs. used auto loan. The difference may only be in the magnitude of some hundreds of dollars, but it is something to consider.

 

LOL. I agree with Tea Elle also. But I see your point in wanting to save $4,000+.

First, you have to decide if you want the Navi or not, and whether you can live with the ext/int color combo. In this case, I would go for the low-mileage car with the Navi. Check it over thoroughly inside and out for nicks, dings, scratches, stains, rotting hams, narcotics, etc (I miss Lawrence). Ask the dealer what he’s listing it for and offer him a thousand less. If he won’t come down more than a few hundred dollars, see if you can get an extended warranty thrown in for free. It’s worth $1,000+.

I’m guessing that a used TL-S w/ Navi and about 400 miles on it, which you could get new for $32,000, should be priced at about $28,000.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but TRY not to think of it that way. You are doing the dealership a favor by buying a car from them. Think about it--they HAVE to sell cars but you don't have to buy one. You have all the power in the arrangement!

Now if you come in with some lowball offer like $20K, they're going to tell you to be more reasonable. But it's not like they'll say "Get the hell off my lot--I'm not selling to you!" Think about what you think a fair price would be, chop a couple grand off that, and let them bargain up to what you want to pay. It sounds simple, and it works!

 

Thank you Iceman and TL4mo, (and all others who have responded to my predicament. I just can't get to the names from this screen)

Someone mentioned interest rates for new cars vs old cars. Fortunately, my credit union will give me a 6.95% rate -- NEW or USED!

Yes, I am wary about mileage on used cars too. So I will tread lightly there. And really, when I consider the fact I will be financing the car for 4 years, a couple of grand that separates the new from the used will not make a huge difference.

I will visit the dealership that is offering the TLS with Navi and 461 miles this afternoon. Will offer 28k and see where we go from there.

Keep the suggestions coming, guys. BTW, this is a great forum! I am truly impressed by the pride of ownership that comes shining through.

Thanks,

Vasant.

 

Invoice for a new one is $30K. While it is a used car, $28K sounds low to me. 400 miles? I hear what you are saying about it being a used car and possibly abused by the previous owner but usually the owner will care for it better than if it was a demo. You are still getting the remainder (49,600 miles) of the Acura warranty, right?

My dealer did a dealer trade and tried to stick me with one with 260 miles on it. It was still considered new. I didn't take it but someone else did.

I'll be they stick to $30k+. Of course, offer low and see what they say. It would be a great deal at $28k if you like the car.

 

I bought a used car once.....the a/c lasted for a month and leak oil after 3 months of use. Never again will i buy a used car....thats like getting a girl that just got past around the room.

 

Thanks for the info Rockintls (excuse me if I misspelled your name) .

Yes, the warranty still stands. Actually, according to the dealer, the warranty is even better than if purchased new. I don't completely understand this, but he said that since the car would be purchased used from an Acura dealership, it would be "certified." Apparently this extends the original warranty by 12000 miles (62000 miles instead of of 50,000). The power train warranty is also extended by a certain amount, but I don't remember exactly how much.

$28k will be the initial offer, then. May be difficult to get at this price due to the "certified" warranty extension.

Thanks,

Vasant.

 

Let us know how it goes. Good luck!

 

Back on April 21, I paid 31,200 for a brand new TL-S with nav including dest. mud flaps, wheel locks, and a trunk tray. So I don't see why you couldn't get the used one for 28 or 29 grand....

Just my .02

 

Vassant,

Also remember that usually financial lenders will give you a point decrease (not much) for stuff like 20% down payment and if you elect to have the payment come straight out of your checking account. On our used 2001 4Runner (3,900 miles on it), we got 6.9% but because we put $4k down and elected for electronic draft, I think our final percentage rate was like 6.85% .....and the Toyota finance guy had the nerve to ask "are you sure you don't want 8.5%".....what a moron!

Hey, if they laugh at $28k, they will counter offer and hopefully you guys will reach a number you both can live with.

What color combo is the one you are considering anyway?

tl4mo

 

alfredv,

Make sure when the dealer said "certified", it is "Acura certified". Not just the deaelr certified.

About the extended warranty part, get it in writing and reads all the fine print. Good Luck.

 

If you can get a 'virtually new' car at a 20% discount, then it is a great deal, 15% okay, less than 10% off MSRP it's not really worth it IMHO.

 

Lots of great advice here!

As far as slightly (i.e. under 5,000 miles) used cars, I don't see the harm in saving a few grand on a very reliable, high-quality car and foregoing the "brand new car" thing. Sure, you'll probably have better peace of mind knowing you were the only driver and owner, but saving a few thousand dollars is important as well. In a brand new car, you take a depreciation hit right as you drive out of the dealer lot for home. If all you did was drive right back into the dealer and try to sell it, you'd lose a good amount of money.

Personally, with a Honda/Acura I wouldn't mind buying a used (or pre-owned, whichever euphemism you want to use) since the quality at build time was there. On the other hand, just about everyone in my family has purchased Hondas and Acuras, both new and used. My parents still have an Accord that me and all my siblings have driven. It's got over 300,000 miles on it, didn't have regular service or oil changes, and still runs decently well. They also had a Civic, purchased new, almost 300,000 miles on it as well, still runs decently well. Other family members have purchased used cars, had regular service done on them, still running with over 100,000 miles. From what I've seen, it's the exception that even a used Honda/Acura would have catastrophic problems.

If you're considering financing the vehicle, I'd recommend what has been said above: Get as much of a downpayment as possible and negotiate a great selling price (or OTD price), and make sure all the things you've agreed on is in writing on the contract, such as warranty extension, certified status, etc. I don't foresee any problems, and if there are, you'll still have the B2B warranty on it.

 

Hello Everyone,

Here's an update on the on the used TLS saga.

To refresh your memory, there were 2 TLS's that I was considering.

1. Silver TLS with Navi. 460 miles. No spoiler but includes mud guards, wheel locks, and trunk tray. Also is "Acura Certified." Apparently, "Acura Certified" adds 1 year and 12000 miles to the bumper to bumper warranty -- making it 6 years and 62,000 miles. It also increases the power train warranty to 100,000 miles. They also have road side service, etc. I can get 6.95% financing for up to 72 months from my Credit Union for this one.

I stopped by the dealership last night to see the car. The car is in excellent condition (exterior, interior, engine, etc). The dealer let me drive it alone for about 45 minutes or so. I was a little perturbed at the stiffy suspension and wind noise, but I can live with it (I knew about this from previous test drives)

My heart was thumping, but I managed to play it cool. I called back today to find out what they were asking for the car. $33,988 was the first quote. The bastards, I thought to myself. They've already ripped off the previous owner by selling it to her at full MSRP ($33,710 plus advertising costs, plus dealer protection package, etc. I believe they sold it the first time -- new 2 months ago at $34,400). Then, they bought it back from her at probably close to wholesale. Now they want to sell it to me -- at MSRP for a new Acura TLS! Isn't it a wonderful country?

Anyway, I offered $28,000 during the phone conversation. The salesman, was aghast. There has been some back and forth. By the end of the day, their price had come down to $32,646 (plus taxes and dealer prep charge -- whatever that is!)

So that is where it stands: $32,646. I have not yet budged from my $28,000 offer. Before leaving the office, I faxed them a letter telling them that my wife and I had taken Friday off and we wanted to close on a deal before the weekend was out. I told them that we were determined to buy a TLS but would do so only at a dealership that would accept a reasonable profit. Wouldn't it be nice if we could close the deal with them? After all, a bird in hand is worth several in the bush. I hope that will speed up the negotiations and that I will be able to close the deal closer to my asking price than to theirs!

My question is: what price do you think the dealership bought back the TLS from the previous owner? That will give me a clue as to how much cost the dealer has in the car. The salesman says they bought it back for $30,000. Do you think that is plausible?

How much do you guys think the "Acura Certified" warranty extension is worth on a new car? The salesman says $1400. My thought is that since the car already comes with a 5/50,000 warranty, I will be paying $1400 for 1 year and 12,000 miles of warranty extension. Not a good deal in my book -- but I may be wrong. Need your advise here.

2. The other car is a TLS without Navi and 4000 miles. It is not Acura certified. Gorgeous Aegean Blue color. Dealer is asking 31,500.

My first choice is Car #1 so I have not approached the dealer for car #2 yet.

Sorry if this is too detailed, guys. I thought it may help other newbies and wannabee TLS owners out there.

More later. Any suggestions as to whether I am offering too little to start? What is the max I should go to before throwing in the towel?

Thanks,

Vasant.

 

hahahaha, those dealers are a joke.

it's obvious, why would you pay more for used than new?

 

Stop!!!!

I paid $31,000 for a brand new silver tl-s with navi. Tell them to take a flying leap and call South Coast Acura and ask for John Huyne. He'll kick the sh*t out of that deal.

 

Hi Tea Elle,

Great advise. However, I am in Denver, Colorado. Where is South Coast Acura and is it feasible to deal with John Huyne out of state? Of course, for the right price anything is feasible!!

Any thoughts?

Let me know his number and I can call him.

Vasant.

 

South Coast Acura
2925 Harbor Boulevard
Costa Mesa, CA 92626
Tel: (714) 979-2500
Fax: (714) 435-1521

Alfredv,
You can deal with a dealer out of state and a flight to CA can't be that much. You'd still save money and have a little vacation to boot.

Sorry to jump in Tea Elle but it sounded urgent.

The dealer in Denver sounds like a real piece of work! Of course they will still do all the warranty work.

 

This dealership is trying to rip you off again.

In the extended warranty, if you buy a new car and buy the Acura care extended warranty 7years/100000mile is only around 1100-1200 dollars. And the dealer tells you the 1year/12000 miles is $1400 on the "Acura Certified'?

Tell the salesman this info. and see how is he reacted?

 

Thanks rockintls. Sounds like a good idea to me! I have some frequent flyer miles to burn, anyway. But I will continue to put the pressure on the dealership before I fly to CA.

Where is Costa Mesa? Is the closest airport LAX? Perhaps the wife and I can visit DisneyLand and the movie studios while we are there.

I'll have to ask my Credit Union if it's okay too. Don't see why not.

Also, Tea Elle, Just so that we are comparing apples to apples -- your $31,000 price did not include the OEM real spoiler, correct?

$31,000 is a great price. Did you do any arm twisting to get it?

Also, I will mention to John that I got his name off this board -- and specifically mention both your names. Hope he knows your pseudonyms!!

Vasant.

 

I can't even believe the dealer is going to charge you that much for a car that has been delivered to another owner!!! As has been said many times here, you can get a brand new TL-S for less than the used vehicle w/ "Acura Certified" status. If that doesn't give you any leverage, I don't know what will.

I've seen that the "certified used car" which is really worth the value are cars that are two to three years old, which still could have part of the original factory B2B, with the certified extension. The depreciation is already factored in, but the car is still relatively new and if it is a lease return, will be in pretty good conditions with low mileage. Even on a high quality car such as an Acura, the resale after two years is at 68-70%. I'd say you wouldn't have to pay any more than the 28K you're offering; the dealer has seen a profit at Point of Sale and then back again when the previous owner brought it back in which will be realized when it's resold. I doubt many other intelligent customers will buy a used TL-S when a brand new one can be had for only a couple thousand more. It seems like a lot of dealers out in California have pretty good deals on TL-S, but there seems to be a bit of a wait. Just be sure to have the negotiation as complete as possible to save yourself a wasted trip. Good luck!

 

The closest airport to Costa Mesa is actually John Wayne/Orange County/Santa Ana, but LAX isn't that far away. You will definitely be in the Disneyland area, plus they just opened that new "California Adventure" park!

As for the car, it really does sound like that dealer in Denver is trying to screw you. Maybe some other sucker will pay that much, but I doubt it. Stick to your $28K. After all, you are doing them a favor by taking "damaged goods" off the lot. It wouldn't hurt to talk to dealer #2, even though that's not the car you really want, just to see what kind of deal you can make with them and if they will be more reasonable. Good luck!

 

Hi guys,

First, thank you to all the fine people participating in this forum. This is an awesome forum. The pride of ownership and the willingness to help newbies and wannabees is wonderful.

As you know, I was negotiating with a dealership here in Denver, Colorado to buy a used TLS. It had 461 miles on it, satin silver in color, with Navi. The onlly accessories included were the splash guards, trunk tray, and wheel locks. As of Thursday night, I had offered $28,000. The dealership was asking $32,947. The salesman promised to call on Friday. He didn't. I guess they want to take their chances selling the car over the weekend. The car did have NAVI, but did not have a spoiler, tint, or clear bra.

Anyway, on Friday evening I visited the second of three Acura dealerships in the Denver area. I had test driven a TL and and a TLS here earlier in the week. On an earlier visit I had seen a beautiful satin silver demo sitting in the sales managers' parking spot. I asked about it but was told that the manager had just started driving it and it was not available to be sold as a demo yet.

Anyway, yesterday evening, I saw the car again. It looked gorgeous -- gleaming like a steel egg in the summer sun. It had exactly the accessories I wanted (and would have added to any Acura TLS I purchased). These included an OEM rear spoiler, clear(transparent) bra on the nose and side mirrors, and tinted windows. The spoiler and tinted windows really complement this car (the tinted windows go especially well with silver, IMHO) However, it does NOT have Navi. The car has 300 miles on it.

I offered 31,000. The dealer came back with $32,000. Before I left, I brought them down to $31,500.

So here is where the deal stands at present. For $31,500 I get:

Satin silver Acura TLS
Splash guards
Trunk Tray
Wheel Locks
Real Spoiler
Tinted Windows
Clear Bra
NO NAVI
Demo with 300 miles

Other sweeteners negotiated with the salesman:

TWO tanks of premium fuel. Tank topped off before I drive off the lot the first time as new owner. Return any time for another fill up.
One Free car wash, vacuum and "like new" detail EVERY month.
Free tire rotations
Free labor on brake job after 40,000 miles (I would pay for parts)
Dealership Employee discount pricing on all oil changes ($18) and other scheduled maintenance.
Dealership Employee discount pricing on dings, small scratches, etc.

Of course, I have to ensure that the dealership will honor these sweeteners. I purchased a car 3 years ago and negotiated 5 free oile changes. The dealership was bought out and consolidated in a new location a month later! The salesman who sold me the car was fired. I lost out there. Not a big deal, but I just need to be aware of that.

What do you guys think? Is this a good deal? Anything else I can ask for before signing on the dotted line?

Thanks guys.

Vasant.

 

Here's my $.01 (it's a weekend so I'm only half-thinking...):

$31,500 still sounds high for a demo, and that other stuff they're throwing in is pretty standard for Acura. If it was me, I would stick to my guns and make them come down to $31K at least. But it sounds like you've worn them down some already and that car is pretty close to exactly what you want, so see how it goes! Good luck!

 

IMHO that's a decent deal to seriously consider. The "pros" are that it only has 300 miles and hasn't been titled to anyone yet. That's a NEW car in the eyes of any lender. The "extras" on their are valued at $1,619.00.

Splash guards $ 80
Trunk tray $ 90
Wheel Locks $ 50
OEM Spoiler $899
Tint $200
Clear Bra $300

The cheapest I had seen a Type S WITHOUT any of those items was $30,699.00 (in TX). Looks like Denver's bottom price offerred is $31,230 (on Mile High's site). If that truly is the bottom price in your area, then you are getting $1,619 worth for $270. That's a savings of $1,339. Plus you are negotiating to secure all those other great items.

The only "con" to consider is during those 300 miles, how was the car treated? Although I don't think managers would thrash a vehicle, it is not a guarantee. That will be something you will have to decide on if you feel comfortable enough about it to never have it pop up in your mind again.

Don't think it would hurt to try to move them down to $31K.....all they can do is say no and then you accept $31,500.00

Best wishes!