guyenacurazine

i was having this engine mount thread, today i took it to dealership for tranny flush and brake shim replacement. Now couple of hours later, they called me and told me they have a setback, the tranny is not shifting good at all and told me they are gonna let the car cool down overnight. I doubt that will help and I would not trust it to drive once I heard it acting like that. just had kinda brief conversation.

I guess tomorrow (Saturday) I am preparing my speech on how I am gonna handle this issue. Basically and obviously my point will be to get them replace free or lowest cost as possible.

I am also strongly considering (I actually prefer this option) to install CL manual transmission which I heard other ppl were doing it. I am in Austin TX, so if anyone here has successfully replaced the tranny with CL, I would definitely would like to talk to you.

Now about the car it is 02 TL-S with 130k on it, I now the warranty has gone, but i still were hearing rumors ppl were having it done free or small cost even the warranty goes out.

Also, I presume it would not hurt to call the Acura Corp to complain as much as possible. IF someone has their customer service phone number on top of their head please post it here, as I have no nerve at this time to wade through threads to get the number. Thanks all

01tl4tl

read the last 3-4 pages of `Tranny Failure Thread` for `Goodwill` advice
DO NOT start with corp!!!

On MONDAY- when real acura rep will be at work
DO speak with the service manager about your situation,,you love the car,,put a lot of money into it, spent hours on acurazine.com trying to figure out the shake (which may be trans related)

And whatever your situation is that money is tight, you have been a loyal acura customer,,family owns 3 acuras,,
why do you deserve a 4 grand freebie?

you had any type of service ever done--you seen to know your place,, so that helps a lot

The `service manager` goes to bat for you with regional warranty rep for corp
If no help or very little is offered,, THEN you can appeal to corp

let the process work its normal way

you are nto that far over the limit on miles,,be positive, mention several recent trips to dealer and no one ever noticed the trans prob

receipts for trans fluid change at dealer go a long way to help you

PShep

Have you had the 2nd gear oil jet kit installed yet? Keep in mind that if you do go with a 6 MT, you're not going to get any assistance from acura on replacement cost. I'd also recommend you not complain to Acura Client Services or even talk to them at all until you know what the dealership is offering. From what I've read, a transmission flush is not something you want to do to our transmission at any milage.

01tl4tl

acura calls a 3 qt drain and refill a ~flush~

the industry at large refers to that word as a `powered machine method` which is bad for our trans

yeah, G- you had the oil jet kit installed on the trans right?
or your dealer should have noticed
Its not related to the clutch plates wearout but can play in certain situations
Your car is already at the dealer so its in the hands of the Manager to try for some goodwill on your behalf
Ignore the service WRITER who works on commission - and has quotas to keep

PShep

Reason I mentioned the 2nd gear jet kit was because it is somewhat of a loophole when it comes to transmission replacement. In my case, the previous owner of the TL never had it installed. I brought the car in to have it installed at 145k mi and after inspection, they decided to replace it at no cost. If you read the recall bulletin, there is no mileage or time frame in place for this recall. Chances are that you've already had it installed though.

01tl4tl

thats correct
If the 2004 issued recall install of the `external oil jet kit` was never done- there is a chance that specific heat damage to 2nd gear shaft will be found under boroscope exam by now
If so- that trans is in major danger of massive failure at freeway speeds!
So acura turns that recall install into a waranty replacement instead

guyenacurazine

Hey Pshep, I am fully aware if the fact that the MT installation is completely outside of dealer. But the reason I am opted for that is that once if it is done successfully, I would never have to worry out transmission problem. Well at least AT issue.
This is because my TL had its transmission replaced once in the past just a couple of months before I purchased from previous owner thru dealership, and that is around 2007. I just cant bear the cost of replacing it every few 2-3 years because I plan it to own it for a long long time.

I wonder how these noobs at dealership would not know about the fact fluid should never be changed. But fluid has been changed once before about 30k miles ago and had no issue. But this time there is.

Now for the oil jet kit I had no clue. I presume it is installed but I would not trust it unless I see it on my own eye. I do remembering hearing the trannys installed after year 05 are usually reliable and I hope mine would be.

guyenacurazine

Gotcha, I am not going there before monday, and I am going to be quite pressing when I am talking the service manager.

Is 3qt drain is complete flush or partial?
So whatever this 3qt drain is called powered machine method? If it is partial drain how would it be bad? What would be good one then? Not flushing at all?

guyenacurazine

Okay, if it turned out to be it was installed then what is probability of breaking down? I mentioned above previous tranny flush 30k ago has not caused any issue, but this time it is.

If oil jet kit WAS NOT installed, you say it is about for major damage, then is it now too late to install it??

Once I go there I will definitely ask 'em whether it is installed. Well thanks for all, please keep an eye on this thread please. I will update it as soon as possible once I contact them next time.

01tl4tl

your car has a 2007 warranty replacement trans- that means the recall jet does not apply to you- sorry
also means that current trans case has the kit moved inside permanently- thats good

3 years and how many miles out of this trans?

based on what acura decided more than a decade ago - they dont want a powered machine hooked up to the TL trans- there is even a plate under the filler hole to prevent a hose from going in there to suck out fluid--as shops would do

One reason is those machines often run on dextron3 fluid--the very thing acura says if even a few ounces is added in `an emergency top off`- then the 3x3 method MUST be used with honda fluid to get rid of the offending stuff
Dex3 and TL dont get along

for normal service- 3 qts drain and refill once a year/15 seems to work well
Others do it at 30
The problem is when you have 120kmiles and decide to do a 3x3, which takes 12 qts of fluid to do, and pushes so much new fluid with all its cleaners thru the system that crud holding clutch packs together gets washed out

gen3 is doing 3x3 at 30 and still get failures,,

3x3 = the trans holds 7.3 qts but only can drain 3- 3.5 out at a time- the rest trapped in the torque conv.
Then you drive around the block shifting up and down - moving fluid thru so new fluid displaces old in the tq,, and you drain it again
refill-drive-
drain and refill
Acura calls the above method `flush`

acura doesnt say not to change our trans fluid--its owner book lacks clarity and trans needs fluid change long before what they thought AT THE TIME

guyenacurazine

okay, is the only option available is changing the tranny then?

01tl4tl

rebuild in your existing post 2005 case at a shop,
or the dealer for complete exchange rebuilt unit

what did acura offer you on replacement? any goodwill?

guyenacurazine

okay 01tl4tl
Got a word from service manager today, they said acura corp will cover 30% of the cost and my share is 2600$. I take it unbearable. I am gonna try appealing to corp again. Although service manager seems to be nice it is hard to swallow. When I mentioned about my appeal directly to corp, he said the case will be reverted to district manager or something like that. Not sure how district one would relate to regional one u mentioned. Can you give more into on that?
I also contacted local tranny rebuild place one of the local member has suggested me they said they can rebuild my tranny nad said most jobs of this type will cost around 1500-1800$.
I am also considering that as an option.

Once I go over this headache, I am gonna sell this crap as soon as possible and get something decent car. I wonder how having it fixed throuh non-acura shop will affect the chances of selling and selling price.

01tl4tl

now is the time to go to corp with the written letter detailing your many attempts to get dealer to find problem in the past
Copies of invoices with `No Problem Found` are very helpful
see my past post on the subject

otherwise go local at $1800 and sell it with whatever warranty that carries
your 2007 rebuild will have the improved case, and hopefully wont need many parts to get it running smooth again
best of luck!

01tl4tl

for resale a rebuilt trans is a rebuilt trans,,beats not rebuilt!!

guyenacurazine

okay. i was thinking about just calling with their number, would writing a letter will weight heavily than just calling? How long would it take to get response back from them? Because I am driving their loaner car, i was worrying about them running out of patience and asking me to return the car. Then I would be carless and prety much disabled. Meantime, I told em not to start any repair yet.

Also, I did not get quite get the part that I attempted to find the problems in the car? What problem are you mentioning? Are you suggesting to say that I attempted to find the transmission problem every time I visit the dealer?
Or dealer doing normal basic diagnosis after each service and point out to me the problems they found to me and those problems were not predicting impending transmission issue? This seem to make more sense and I have all the service records since my purchase.

01tl4tl

what I meant was- I thought you had taken it to the dealer in the past complaining of trans problem--which they could not duplicate- problem not found PNF is on the invoice

If thats not correct, then even less reason for corp to help you now.

In reality, you have not owned this car very long... out of its lifetime,, 2-3 years right?
the car got a fresh trans in '07, now has 130kmiles, 21 past warranty limit.

They are not obligated to do anything... so 2600 is a decent offer and near the average

local shops or name brands are getting 26 for a bad rebuild job~
if your local guy has experience with TL trans --thats going to be your best option

you already have the improved case, so acuras unit not required just for that

NO the techs dont ck the trans for anything when its in for an engine oil change or brake service, it may not even be test driven!

Yes they want the loaner car back NOW!!!! if you are not going to approve the work at the offered price. There is usually a time limit on their offer,, a few days max

Why should they lend you a car for free,, when you are not getting the work done there?

you can try calling the 800 and asking for a case manager to call you back
they will call the dealer and regional rep to find out how the offer amount was decided, then corp person calls to get your story and makes a final decision

01tl4tl

`and point out to me the problems they found to me
and those problems were not predicting impending transmission issue? `

to own a TL is to have impending transmission issues

I used to think TL mean Touring, Luxury

now I know it means Transmission, Lousy

guyenacurazine

okay, called corp today and talked to them about an half hour pleading complaining, they seem to take the case seriously but will not give any further assistance. sucks.
I brought lot of argument including why users kept experiencing the problem after the warranty expired etc etc.. losing all the trust in the brand etc etc.. anyways is that the last thing i could do or more steps ahead???

01tl4tl

you wasted 30 minutes of your life talking to the first person at acura 800
they are only note takers who write down your complaint and stick it in a box for a real acura manager to look at,,they have zero authority

and their job is to quote from The Big Book of NO!!

as I said- you are well past warranty, no history of complaints on trans to service dept with PNF as the result...
may as well go local rebuildand be done with it~
acura has set its max assistance on this case,,,sorry they were not more generous

guyenacurazine

well if you told me to call their 800 number rite? they were transferring me to some other person and made bunch of contacts and made that "final decision" of no afterwards. What else could I have done it? How should I proceed from now on then?

01tl4tl

did you get transferred to the special trans person? or just talked with the first person on the phone

thru the dealer ranks to corp, the decision was made at a regional manager level.
You did what you could, they based an offer on how much of a customer you are to that dealer and to the company, the cars history of them already doing a trans etc

once you are 20k past the 109,,its lucky to get any help recently,,everyone is cutting back on the freebies, goodwill is not mandatory!!

its better than the `no help at all` that many are getting as an answer~~
give the loaner car back today or they can bill you or charge you with car theft

and get on the phone, need 50 bucks from every friend to pay for local rebuild
Or do the 6 speed like you wanted

guyenacurazine

ok dude, thanks for help all the way, just called em and have them replaced the transmission and get a closure on this nightmare.

01tl4tl

while its been a pain, at least its a decent price, with full warranty parts and labor,
and if you decide to sell, a major enhancement over any other TL for sale in the area

If I were president of acura....

dudeinaTL

iTrader: (1)

Should just do what I'm doing....get a rebuild at the cheapest price. Drive it 'til the warranty is almost up & dump it. It's too late to cry now but buying this TL was one of the worst decisions I've ever made.

01tl4tl

it was going to run him $1800++ more once they got inside at local rebuilder

So a dealer installed acura rebuilt for 2000 is a good deal, with warranty!
you can drive it and enjoy or sell it with clear karma

guyenacurazine

that is actually not 2000 01tl. it is 2600+tax nad plus some work done recently brake job and it is gonna about 3000.

01tl4tl

all in all its less than a new car payment if you put it all on credit cards

and you have essentially a new TL- fresh brakes, mounts, trans, whatever other work done..
its good for another 10 years

find that in another brand
yes the trans issue sucks.. but we can agree these cars are keepers~
I certainly didnt drop this much on mods to sell it!!

dudeinaTL

iTrader: (1)

You guys must not really call around the local trans rebuild shops. No shop I called gave me an initial price & then said depending on how it looks, it'll be X more dollars. A full rebuild price is all you should ask for.

Got mines done for $1800 out-the-door with a 1 year warranty....AND the turnaround was only 3 days. That's the price quoted the first time I called & the price I paid, no questions asked. Really call around....first couple shops that gave me a quote were $2000+. But after more research, found a couple shops for under 2. One shop gave me a $1500 quote but they were too far. Keep searching.

01tl4tl

there is no way to know exactly what parts will need to be replaced- beyond the standard kit and average from past experience

extra shafts or gears may be required,,other parts may be out of spec

an average price based on recent overhauls is feasable, but exact,,,
not without looking inside
Or they can set a high price and make extra profit on items you didnt need, or can short you on parts you really should get but that put it over estimate,,as long as it last thru warranty is all they care

I ran a shop- estimates always go up,,hoses may be bad,,things you didnt know until fully inspected
A great low phone quote is called `low balling` to get you in the door- once its taken apart you are pretty well stuck with whatever they say it needs
$1600 becomes 2100, then motor mounts are bad (common on TL) another 200...

01tl4tl

where is urf? Earth?
labor rates are different everywhere,,80 at a private shop is a bargain near me--the dealer is 125!

some middle states will have lower wages-lower labor charges to you= lower price

of course they dont tell you its going to go up once inspected!! its called sales skills-phone calls are about getting you in the door-

unless-- they do a remove and dismantle estimate for $600, then call with total for needed repairs.
have to do that on certain trans where needs vary

thewrangler99

01tl4tl i really don'y want to start a new thread....do we have pressure switch on 2nd generation tl's? if yes... is there any diy to replace them... i heard a lot about them in 3rd generation tl's thread....they make a drastic change in smoother shifting...thank you much

01tl4tl

diy thread list should be your friend,,Im not the expert on this matter
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/new-official-2nd-gen-tl-diy-thread-706083/

but iirc there are some external things to do, AND a secret external filter for the trans

guyenacurazine

That is exactly what I thought. I mean I trust the shop but the initial low
price could go up as more problems are discovered than anticipated and who knows it might eventually go up more than the dealer price. that is why i went for a dealereship for a less headache.

TLer trash

We have two pressure switches on 2g transmissions. I didn't notice any difference when I changed mine. You can also clean the solenoids, adjust the solenoids, and change the filter. Read the whole thread "racing atf" to find all you can do to extend your trans' lifespan. There's information about fluids that work better than honda atf as well.

guyenacurazine

got my babe finally back. feels so good. paid dearly with 2800$ which is for tranny and some brake shim replacement. not sure what to say. i have been driving tsx for about a week and now my steering wheel seems harder to turn. for everything else, i love mine better than tsx.

01tl4tl

less than a years worth of car payments-- to make your preferred ride go several more years...
seems like a deal somehow`

guyenacurazine

just wanna forget it as long as drives fine for another 60k. tHANKS for helping all the way 01tl. u got fb account? ))

andrewz182

where'd you end up taking it?
I had my tranny go out about 2 months ago, (I'm also located in Austin btw) and I took it to sterling acura. They ended up paying 80% of the bill, so I paid ~$900 out the door.
BUT: my car had less than 80k on it (missed the 7yr powertrain warranty deadline by 6 months or something), and after calling Acura, I learned that the tranny had already been replaced in 2005 (which I never knew about), and it was the 2nd one that was failing now. I also learned that the one replaced in 2005 was supposed to include the "fix" for the tranny, which clearly isn't really a fix.
Kinda hoping I can sell the car in a year or two before the trans warranty expires. I'm not even driving it right now, it's sitting back in Dallas until I can get new brakes on it, and I'm currently in an 04 corolla

guyenacurazine

oh wow, mine has 130k and 2002 so quite past a warranty, are you coming to Austin this weekend seems like austin owners are meeting this weekend. you should drive your car while u have it, if you dont drive it dont let it sit idle, otherwise sell it right away.