last nite, at parkway in va. It was around 3AM in morning. no cars.. no police. I saw the hid light just hehind me, when he passed me and it was Lexus GS430.. with my friend. I was going around 70mph.. Soon as I saw him.. i said nice car.. and my friend was asking me if i can pass the Lexus GS430.. I said that car is fast I have to try.. well.. he was going about near 85 miles.. well.. ok let's race again.. i put my 3rd gear.. and i passed him at 100mph.... and he seems he wants to race too.. and on my 3rd gear i reached about 110mph.. easily.. well.. i'm sure he was surprised that i passed him..anyway he did came back on his top speed but i decided not too race soon as i see curves ahead..and dropped to 90mph.. then he passed me from left lane.. anyway.. he must be surprised because there was curve.. and it seems Lexus GS has better cornering then My TLS.. but even though it is fast car, the car seems sleeped little on the corners.. because my car was not stable. too.. and my friend was telling Acura TLS seems like more sports car.. then luxury car.. he thinks TLS is fast and too fast.... and my friend droves porsche boxter 98.. and he tells me my car is little quicker.. but cornering is much better than TLS...

 

So let me get this straight,

Your friend, in his infinite wisdom, suggested that your TLS handles better in turns than his '98 Porsche Boxster? And he said that the TLS is comparable to the GS430 in corners??

Excuse me if I can't stop laughing. I think you need new, more honest friends.


Pete

 

hehe...Porsche Boxster is what I like to think of as Miata with a Porsche logo

 

The guy meant TL-S seems quicker than his friend's boxster but boxster corners better. Read it again and you will see what I am saying.

 

Hey . . . at least Peter got a good laugh out of it. We all need on now and then.

RUF

 

ah, I see the light now!

Thanks Ruf. Sometimes I wish people would freely exercise the use of complete sentences, and punctuation, oh well.

Thanks again!

<sorry>

 

LOL -

I also noticed that I had a typo as well. Dang fingers. Can't get them to do what I want them to do anymore. Didn't know arthritis sets in at such an early age. I'm just 41.

RUF

 

Regardless, I think they're sweet Boxters Rule!

 

I like the looks of the Boxster, even more than my own roadster! I just wish they would put a decent engine in it! Even the Boxster S is only a pseudo-sports car. The other thing I didn't like about the Porsche is that you can spend $80K on a Boxster if you add all the options. WTF??

 

The Boxster S is no slouch by any means! Did you all catch the Motortrend article that pitted the Box. S against the 2001 M3 and the '01 Z06??

Now, I don't mean to be a mag racer, but as a matter of objectivity, they posted the M3 at 13.2 and the Boxster at 14.1 -- 14.1-> mid 14's is a fast ride. What ever happened to the 968? I thought that was an ultra-sweet Porsche!

 

Some of you guys need to wake up and smell the coffee.

The GS430 will pull on the TL-S pretty good at any speed. That car usually run low 14s at trap speeds of around 100mph , and I also hope you know that the regular Boxster is much faster than a Miata and that it should run dead even with you guys. Heck it might even outrun you. And if it's a Boxter S, you'll get smoked.

 

I decided to look for a single source of info for 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Keeping in mind that "any given driver can beat any other given driver on any given day" blah, blah, here is what I found:

Miata, 8.1, 15.9
GS400 7.5, 15.8
TL 6.7, 15.2
CL Type-S 6.4, 14.8
Boxster 6.0, 14.6
Boxster S 5.8, 14.3
M Roadster 5.0, 13.7

The web site I used (http://web.radiant.net/kms/specs.html) didn't show the TL Type-S or GS430. I'm sure that R&T, C&D, and others will have slightly different times, but what this tells me is that:

- The GS400/430 either isn't as fast as we've been led to believe or this guy's test model was a real dog.
- The Miata is definitely cute but is no sports car.
- The Boxster and Boxster S perform about the same, which is to say also about the same as a TL Type-S should.
- I've got you all beat anyway!

 

Iceman, you have got to be kidding! And to even think it for a second, you are kidding yourself! 300hp sedan running 0-60 in 7.5 seconds?

I'm sure that was the GS300 tested. Just this month the GS430 is tested in car and driver and motor trend. 60 came in 5.9 and 6.0 from the 2 magazines.

You will be smoked. Period.

 

let the games begin.........

 

that's closer to the GS300 numbers. GS300 range from 7.1~7.8. 1/4 mile 15.3~15.8.

 

that is the GS300's number..

btw, the GS430's been ran 13.9 in the 1/4. and to say your fwd handles better than rwd.....i have to laugh too

 

excuse myself.. well speed wise TLS is faster.. he told me his boxter is 6.8seconds in 60mph.. well.. that's true.. and porsche has the best conering.. against all the cars..

 

I think AMI or car and driver magazine was questioning Lexus GS430 can go under 6 seconds?????? in 60mph.. they said close but not sure...!! period...

 

interms of boxter.. i think 98boxter is near close to 6seconds.. and after 60mph.. it can go lot fast. 3rd gear kick.. should be around 14 seconds and under 15 seconds.. i may not be right..

 

G4 is a fast car even if its not modified i have a a modified G4 i rarely drive since i picked up my TLS 3 weeks ago because i'm trying to break it in. My 00' Lex G4 is for show and its supercharged 350hp.. I've put it in the last two local car shows it did pretty well. But by just looking @ the G4 you would think it was a big bulky car probably that wouldn't handle well in the corners. But its pretty damn good.

 

I know it's a nice car GS4.. i love the design.. I think TLS is close.. and good.. on the road...

 

Objection!

Any speed? The GS430 is fast, but not so much faster that it will pull the TLS "easily" at any speed. You need a Vet, Viper or something of that performance level to pull a fast car such as a TLS at "any speed".

Notice I said any speed.

If you understand what impact power curves (torque and HP) and gearing have on performance you'll understand what I mean. If you don't, do some research because I'm not going to try and explain it via a written response. Too involved.

However, in a nut shell. There is a point in the RPM range where the TLS will produce more HP and Torque than the GS430. Example, say at 5500 RPM TLS produces 260 HP, and at 3500 the GS 430 produces 240 HP. Guess what, the GS 430 won't start pulling on the TLS until; the TLS shifts and drops its RPM and HP, and or as the GS430 builds RPM and its HP output exceeds that of the TLS.

You may also want to do a search on a post from Bioyuki on Torque curves and such.

This may also help some of the guys who don't understand how I mangaged to give faster cars a run for their money. I know where my TLS' optimum accelleration is and I goat the other car into running me in that range.

You may not think that is fair, but that's the facts of street racing. Just like guys who modify their cars to give them an advantage. A race is a race whether it 0-60, 1/4 mile, 30-100, 50-100, etc. It's all a competition. I mean why race a guy where he's at his best. Make it more even and race them at your best point.

RUF

 

I believe the GS430 comes equipped w/ an option analogous to the Sport Shift, therefore you should be able to ride in 2nd gear around 60mph -> 70mph as you can in the TL-S.

Ruf, you're suggesting that the optimum range to cruise around at, w/ an impending race in the horizon, is around 4800 rpm, right when VTEC opens up (in the middle of the torque band), in 2nd gear. What's stopping the GS430 from doing the same thing?

Also, as many of us know, the TL-S only produces a peak 200hp to the front wheels and a peak of 200lb-ft of torque. That's nearly a 23% loss of power to the wheels. The GS400's stock dyno, that I saw, isn't nearly that inefficient, if I recall correctly.

 

PU:

1) You are right about the torque and HP issue, but you did not even give a rudimentary discussion of the torque multiplication topic relative to gearing. I am a physicist and have a good feel for it, but some of the others might like to hear you comments on how torque and torque multiplication figure into acceleration. As I have stated before, HP is a speed issue, not an acceleration issue.

2) Interesting about your comments on drivetrain efficiency in the Lexus. Most cars have parasitic losses from a variety of factors in the 20-25% range - if it is indeed true that Lexus routinely measure lower losses on a variety of dynos, it would be interesting to see if we could learn "how they done it".

3) For the record, I do not believe extraterrestrials have visited the earth, do not believe we have ever been visited, and consider UFO's only possible if time travel exists in the future. They are either experimental craft or mistaken identification.

I am a member of S.O.S.C.E.M.O. (Sick of So Called Experts Mouthing Off). As you have pointed out, the WWW is full of such outgassing.

 

Peter -

In order for your points to be true the GS would have to have the same or very similar gearing. And I bet it doesn't.

RUF

 

The TL Type S is a fast car, but keep dreaming and making yourself feel good that you did so well against a GS430.

The TL Type S is a great car, but it it's not a GS430.

The GS430 may look like a boat, but it's a rocket and that Lexus guy must have been just toying with you, since he did not want to screw with his $50K car.

The debate goes on!

 

Actually, the GS430 driver screwed up and got beat by a GS430. I mean someone buys a $50K= luxury hotrod and is worried he'll screw it up! I don't buy that for 6.28 seconds.

As soon as I find a GS400 to test my metal against I'll have to find a GS430 and see if you can put an everyday Joe into that fast car and beat me.

Do you hear Wagner's Flight of the Valkyries playing yet?

But just so you don't missunderstand my position here. I'm not saying that the TLS is a faster car than the GS430 or maybe even the GS400, but it is a fast car. There are of course faster ones and really fast ones.
If you have an issue with the TLS being defined as a fast car, then I will say you don't know what you are talking about. It is a fast car period. Just go look at how many cars are faster. There are a lot, and I mean a lot more that are slower. So statistically it is a fast car. Just not a really fast car.

The again, it depands on what you personally are used to driving. If you've driven 5 second cars the TLS is a nice car with decent performance. If you've driven 8 second or slower cars then it's a fast car. So please keep this in perspective when folks say the TLS is fast. It may be really fast to them, but in the end it is still a fast car.

Cheers,
RUF -

 

IMO, you can do any kind of race you want, from a stop, from a 20mph roll, 30mph roll 80mph roll, even in reverse , the GS430 will come out on top. Those things simply will OUT ACCELERATE you because they have more power. The fastest 1/4 mile time I've seen posted for a GS430 is a 13.9 @100mph+. That's enough to hang or beat cars like the S2000 and the Ford Mustang GT, cars that the TL-S will only dream of keeping up with. Don't quite remember what issue posted that number for the GS, but hopefully someone will back me up on this.

 

You must be new here. So no disrespect, just my oinion and or experience talking here.

Anyway, depending on how fast the GS430 and TLS really are in the 1/4 mile is not a guarantee of a win in real world head-to-head competition. And assuming that the GS430 is roughly .5 seconds faster, that close enough for me to know I have a chance against an average drive or one that messed up. If its a whole second faster the I have to hope for a number of things to go my way in order to win.

As others have heard and you too will now hear, I always bet on the combination of me and my car verses the other guy. As long as its close.
Call it arrogant or bragging, but I have the years of experience racing cars that were faster at the track and on the street. Whether or not I still have those skills after 20yrs is another story. Besides, I've already beaten or hung with several cars that were faster, but the driver was not up to the task or it was a poorly running car. Either way a win is a win.

Oh, I forgot. Here's a story to back this point up.

Back in 1984 I had a brand new 1984 Z28 HO. I raced every other Z28 HO out there and never lost to another Z28 HO. I even beat the Mustangs that we faster according to every Car Rag out there. Matter of fact, I let my little brother race my 64 SS that was fast, a low 5 sec to 60 and a 13 sec. car at the track with street tires, and mid 12s with cheater slicks. I would actually take him off the line with the Z28 HO to 45MPH before he blew past me. The 84 Z28 HO was a mid 7 second to 60 car. That's over a second difference. But I beat him to 45.

Just remember that faster doesn't guarantee a win every time. That's why there is such suspense on the outcome. You can never be certain of the result. The odds may be against you, but the chance is there. That's what I race for.

RUF

 

The Boxter is a damn shame......Dr. Ferdinand Porsche has been rolling in his grave since this bastard son of the 911 was introduced.

An underpowered car (even in S variant); cheaply built, overpriced, can't access the engine bay from above, unbelievably quaint little sportster.

It's pathetic how Porsche uses Boxter components in the current liquid cooled 911, a version that has brought disgrace to a once proud tradition.

Even the local phone co. repairman claims he has a Boxter......how quaint.

Oh yeah, the GS430 is a nice car.....I see plenty of old folks puttering around town in them.

 

ok to settle the debate of a gs400 vs. tl-s, anybody have a tl-s that lives in santa monica, beverly hills area. i have a gs400 and would love to see the difference between the two.

 

For GS430 owners, it is shame to race against TL-S. You guys should race with Corvettes.. you guys have 8 cylinders and trying to pick on TLS, which is little slower than yours. GS430 owners should pick there size, maybe pick up the engine size, but therefore you don't have competitions.. what's your competitors???? let me know..
And why TLS always picks on GS400 or 430?? I don't think IS300 is no match for TLS. And TLS is larger, therefore we pick up on GS. and ES is out of race for sure.
Audi and BMWs, we love to know who is still faster. Well we all know they are good at cornering. And TLS is for street straight cars for fast floor...3 series and 5 series in between for TLS and Audi 4 and 6 Quattros are in between for TLS.
By this research, we all know that TLS is in the middle of race overall. We know that TLS' design is very aggressive not prettier than GS430. Maybe it's all about money and speed.

 

I'm guessing GS430's engine probably cost 20K, and body cost 30K.

 

Something must be said for the downshift speed of traditional automatics on the highway, that is, if we're discussing a race initiating at highway speeds.

W/ a CL-S w/ headers to my right, and I in the TL-S, we puttered north along Rt. 53 (formerly I-355 North) and decided to purge our throttles w/ some 93 Octane. I floored it first, and fractions of a second later, he followed suit. He couldn't catch me after that (WOT, both of us). The moral of the story, the first to the downshift wins the race. Granted, with the dissimilar engines in the GS vs. the TL-S, I'd say the quicker downshift reaction on the TL-S's driver's part would add a few seconds to what remains of a diminishing lead.

Road Rage --

You'd agree w/ me, as a fellow mathematician, that horsepower is a function of two arguments, torque, and RPM: HP = f(Torque, RPM)

I don't believe we've been visited by other lifeforms either.

HP = (Torque*RPM)/5252

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, traditional dynos measure torque, and compute horsepower as a result of the above algorithm (and they subsequently graphically depict the performance over the whole RPM range).

Most people (in the drag racing circuit) would rather see PEAK torque higher up on the powerband. W/ the advent of proper gearing, you can emulate ample low-end torque, and benefit from peak acceleration at the high range as well. The zen culmination of both these concepts produces the euphoric broad, flat power curves that many current I6's, V6's, and V8's benefit from. The addition of the variable valve timing also enhancing high and low-end torque.

However, most of us in the general public (i.e. the people that the thinktanks at most of the major auto marques research to develop their product lines) would rather see peak torque under 3000 rpms, since this is the peak RPM we'll usually shift at in daily driving scenarios (i.e. going to the store, cruising to work, an occasional drag race w/ a kid in a 'Stang to 45 mph).

 

No way dude. I started the GS400 1st.

Ever since someone posted that they are unbeatable even the base GS400. Since then I've been hunting for GS400 and have even put the word out to effect.

It's been a couple of weeks and the only GS400s I've seen have been at the dealer. I went by there just to make sure they actually sell them around here because I've on;t seen one and it had baggage.

I was so frustrated the other night I obliged a new ES300 that was messing we me. After I blew his doors by countless lengths I slowed down. Normally I don't even bother with something that is more than a second slower. But since it was a Lexus it would have to do until I find a GS400.

RUF

 

[QUOTENormally I don't even bother with something that is more than a second slower. But since it was a Lexus it would have to do until I find a GS400.[/QUOTE]

*LOL*

I don't know where you're from in Texas, but if you visit Dallas, Houston, Austin, or even San Antonio you'll see some Lexus GS400/430's on the road. Good luck, though--that's a fast car!

 

I'd have to agree with some of the other members on here, that the GS430 although very powerful, probably does not have the best launch (from the stop position), but at acceleration at cruising speed, the Lexus V8 really kicks in those 300HP and can bypass any TL Type S with such ease.

 

Okay GS 400/430 owners KNOW the tls is fast. Lost to one yet, no (and tlp/tls owners love to race) but they are fast.

Using my good bud's cls as a test vehicle good launches are key for both cars. We raced once again Friday night (leaving from a toll both) and I let him go first (we were on the phone) because we wanted to see if I could catch up. Well I did but took a while (he love's using the maumatic) so your engines are indeed no joke.

BTW raced a c-5 and at 120 mph he was pissed cause he (nor me) could not pull away.......

DId lose badly to a Corvettte STINGRAY once on the highway (but dude was cool we both waved after we were finished)

I believe a new 4.3 liter engine is indeed close to 16k.

 

Dang!!

Then I "am" impressed. What do you have 430?? My 1.3 liter RX-7 ran pretty good with the C5's. I've beat a couple (not by much) and I've been beat by a couple (By less). Is that from a roll, or does the 430 pull high 4.9-5.4 0-60? I've never looks at stats on them I just new they were fast, but I didn't realize they were sport car fast? I love when Vettes get beat or can't beat you...they get some mad for some reason. I guess I know the reason but still. BTW, are you modded? Nice run anyway.

 

I'd would say that GS4XX owners that also LIKE to race know what their competition generally is capable of, and therefore know what they're up against. You're generalizing that all TL-P/TL-S owners love to race, that's ridiculous. There are more Honda Civic, Acura TL-S/CL-S owners out there that AREN'T ricey, or into racing at every stoplight than there are those that do. The same goes for the simple fact that there are many many more GS owners out there than simply appreciate the available power and don't go around hunting for dogfights.

What, do you represent the Lexus Corp. or something?