How many keys do you get when you purchase a TL?

 

2 + 1 valet.

 

The reason I asked is because I want to upgrade the alarm system and I know that you need to have an extra key for that, and I want to have at least two spare keys available.

 

theres supposedly a bypass thing thats cheaper than a new key from some company -- post a HELP: thread asking -- i seen it a while back it was about a remote starter

 

You don't want to do that because someone can then hotwire your car. Do not bypass the immobilizer, spend the extrat money and get another key. It doesn't have to be cut, you just need it for the chip.

 

How can anyone hotwire it anymore with that than an uncut key?

The bypass only sends the signal when the remote starter is starting it.... same as with the key....

and its hidden...


Dealer also told me he cant program a key without cutting it because it has to go in the ignition, is this true?

 

But if they know you have a remote starter, and they know what wires to cross, they're in. I know it's unlikely, but you're compromising the security just to save $75, especially when you're already spending $200-$300 on a remote starter to begin with.


Unless that's their policy, but all you need the spare key for is the chip, which makes cutting it unnecessary.

 

no he said it was no possible to program without cutting...


go aub -- then why cant they cross the right wires of the remote starter thats using a key with a chip instead? same differnece isnt it?

 

This will work. I guarantee it. Have a cheapo hardware store duplicate your car key on a standard keyblank. The key will operate all your locks, but won't start the engine case it doesn't have a transponder chip. Now tape the head of the new transponder key to the head of this cheapo cut key. Tell your dealer to program it that way. Remove the keys. Your new uncut transponder key should now work. Keep the cheapo cut key as a spare in your wallet. Should you ever lock your keys in the car, the wallet spare will come in handy. Conversely, the wallet spare is not sufficient to steal the car should you ever misplace your wallet.


Yes, adding any type of remote starter to an immobilizer equipped car does lessen security to some extent. How much, depends on how well the installer hides the key box, immobilizer bypass box, and alarm brain as well as how much the thief knows about car alarms and immobilizers. I don't know the schematics for the immobilizer bypass, but I have reason to believe that it can be as easily "hot-wired" as a key-based bypass. However, it is slightly better than the key-based bypass if the thief lacks wiring knowledge and must search for the key to manually stimulate the transponder receiving ring while hot wiring the ignition. Personally, I decided not to put a remote start on my car.

 

So I assume that 3 sets of keys is what I'm suppose to receive from the dealer?

 

I think just before you sign the deal you can get as many extra keys as you need.

 

maybe i should rephrase -- by "ByPass"
I mean its a unit with the same code as the key -- it only sends the signal to the receiver when u try to start the car with the remote -- same as the starter unit would send the signal with the keyhead -- just that this "thing" is cheaper

 

Not necessarily true; he doesn't have to cut it, but he will need to borrow one of your master keys so that he can program the chip on the blank key so that it is identical to the one in your master key. I know--I got a blank uncut key with a programmed chip; dealer only needed to borrow my master to program the blank key.

Tony

 

You should be fine then.

I remember reading a thread on this site once where the ignition was going
to be set up so that it would ALWAYS look at the blank key, even when
starting the car with a key. In that situation, if someone hotwired your
car, they would be able to start it because the ignition would look at the
blank. If it's set up where the blank is only read when the remote starter
is activated, you should be OK, provided that the blank is hid well.

Was I better at explaining it?

 

It is not worth compromising security just so you can be lazy and not go start your car. $30000 is alot of money to lose for being lazy, not to mention the couple hundred for the starter

 

Well, perhaps you should do a search for a thread in here called, "Sh*t! Someone disabled my car alarm and my remote starter and hotwired my car!" Oh, wait... there isn't one.

Mr. Polo: Talk to your alarm installers and ask them which way to go (cut key or blank key). Just make sure to ask them to hide it real good.

Everyone else: First of all, if someone's good enough to bypass my car alarm then they've probably got the skills to bypass a remote starter. However, if my alarm's going off then it doesn't matter how many keys they find in my car... it won't start for them.

Secondly, I believe most car thieves have little or no experience in stealing cars. If a pro wants your car... it's gone. But chances are a rookie will be crossing your path. All you can do is do the common sense things and hope no one messes with ya.

mbeebe: I have a remote start car alarm and I don't consider my car's security compromised one bit. In fact, my aftermarket alarm is LIGHT YEARS ahead of your stock alarm. Park our cars next to each other and yours gets stolen first!

'Nuff said.

V.

 

I just want to be realistic here. If I knew that your car had the remote start installed, I could use that information to my advantage to more easily hotwire your car. I just want you to be aware that yes, your car is easier to steal with a remote start module installed vs. not having one. I'm not even a car thief, and I could still do it. I bet the pro thieves can do a better job than I.

Just being realistic. Don't mean to wake you out of your perceived sense of security. Practically speaking, a good install of a remote start will be hard to hotwire by a thief, but it is just one more port of entry that a thief could chance upon and figure out. It is always more secure to have less ports of access, basic security principle here. Look at it this way, it would be more secure if our cars had no keyholes at all. Sure, most thieves don't even bother with picking keyways, but since the keyholes are there, the potential for theft by keyway picking is there, hence the security of the car is lessened. There is nothing in the world that you can say that will convince me otherwise (this can be deduced strictly using logic): adding another way to start your car and bypass the immobilizer anti-theft system can only lessen your vehicle's security.

Take my word for it. I've had my share of experience with locks and security systems for both home and vehicle.

'Nuff said.

 

All this talk about car alarms, remote starters, pro vs. amateur car thieves--nobody wants to be a victim of car theft, but heck, if you value your car that much, isn't that why you get comprehensive coverage on your auto insurance policy? Sure, it may not completely replace your loss, but at least it will lessen the pain of the loss...

Who cares as to whether or not someone can easily steal one car over another? It's not like it's the end of the world for the car owner--stolen cars can be replaced. And for those of you who argue that reducing the frequency of auto theft can help affect auto premiums for the better--perhaps so, but then again that's why (comprehensive) auto insurance exists in the first place; if there was an absolute guarantee that there would be no auto accidents or thefts, there wouldn't be a need for auto insurance, don't you think? Except of course that would mean that it would be one less way for people to make money...

Tony

 

Well, with that logic why don't we just really get paranoid and start worrying about car thieves stealing your keyfob open/close codes. I suppose they could be nearby with some electronics gear just waiting for you to open your door and voila! they've snatched your codes out of the air! No muss, no fuss!

Yes, I understand the THEORY about remote starters being another port of entry... but in real life I'm hardly concerned that: 1. Somebody has the skills to penetrate my defenses; and 2. That they've identified my car as a remote started car. I don't use my remote starter very often and I park in a garage. Plus my car will page me as soon as it detects them. Now me, Mr. Smith, and Mr. Wesson are coming out to see what's going on.

If you lived nearby and you could try without damaging my car, I'd let you try to get into my car without the alarm going off, just to see how someone might attempt to gain entry. You might just find an unprotected means to get in... in which case I'll have my installer figure out a way to protect that port, too.

I think mbeebe's comment about being too lazy to start the car irritated me. Uninformed comments like that sometimes get under my skin. Usually, I can ignore it. Last night I responded. My bad.

V.

 

Hence, a good reason to get a Clifford. Anti-code-grabbing technology. Each time you arm/disarm, a new set of codes goes out. There's either several billion or several trillion combinations.

 

That's the whole point, A GOOD INSTALL with a system that has rolling codes is no worse than the factory system, in some cases better.

My point is that in some installs, the installer wires the system so that the ignition grabs the key code from the spare key all the time, even when the car is started with the key, in a sense rendering the whole immobilzer ineffective.

If it's wired right, when starting your car with a key, the immobilizer system will grab the code from the key in the ignition. When starting with the remote starter, the remote starter will send the signal from the blank key. If the car is "hotwired", the car won't start since it's not getting the code from the remote starter nor from the ignition switch.

If it's wired wrong, the immobilizer will always grab the code from the blank key regardless of how it's started. So if you end up "hotwiring" and therefore bypassing the ignition switch, the car will still start because the immobilizer will grab the code from the blank key. The remote starter is not at fault here, it's the installer's fault.

With "rolling code" technology that is used in modern day remotes, it's virtually impossible for a thief to "steal" your remote frequency to start your car, and even if they did, with how remote starters work, you still have to put the key in the ignition and turn it to the "on" position. Otherwise the system will turn off your car as soon as you put your foot on the brake or open the hood of the car.

In summary, the remote starter will not compromise the security of your car. A lazy or inexperienced installer can.

 

Yeah! What he just said!

Stick a fork in this thread... it's done!

V.

 

Almost...just let me get a word in. I thought about this many many times before (even before vincent got his car) and if I were to be a car thief I'd do it right by dressing up as a repo man tooled with a flatbed truck (Malls would be my prime choice since you know they'd be out for at least an hour or so and you could do it out in the open without worrying too much). The only thing that I'd be concered about is vperkin's paging system and him comming out with a Smith& Wessen a few minutes later. Anything else I wouldnt give a crap about because that car is going to get scrapped anyways.

 

LOL

 

Hmmm....come to think about it....what if I cover vperkin's car with some sort of metalic car cover THEN tow it. I wonder if there is a way to block the paging system. I know the towing idea woundt work on Mercedes with an Onstar system (unless you rip off the antennea) since it automatically detects it being towed then sends a distress beacon to mercedes that your car is being lifted.