Just got May 14, issue of AutoWeek and saw on Page 4, that they're announcing that TL Type S will have 6 speed manual trans. available later this year. No mention of CL but can't believe they'd not put the six speed in the coupe.

 

oh dear, did you see that?? All that shit hit the fan!!! God bless ACURA!!

 

Still no match for the S4, muahahaha. (only saying that because someone in another thread said "Bye bye S4 when the manual comes out")



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Zerin Dube
'00 Imola Yellow Audi S4 .. Not Stock..
http://www.imolaS4.com

 

It would be a close match with mods.
But again, I really don't need an ugly and small S4 so I may have a 0.01 second advantage.

 

I'd rather have an M3 over an S4 anyday -- can't STAND that jellybean shape!! Not to knock your car bro, but hey.. that thing doesn't stand out too much from your typical A4 w/ upgraded rims. The M3, and the TL-S definitely stand out from their 3-series and TL-P, respectively, counterparts. I've never been a fan of Audi styling cuz they have too many rounded corners -- they need some sharp lines and drops.

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2002 TL Type S
White Diamond Pearl
Parchment

 

I always wondered why the car mags liked the audi's looks so much. I dont think they are ugly, but they look a lot like the VW and arent aggressive/different enough, front to back.

But dont rip on the guys car, fellaz. He was just responding to someone else. Hahaha anyway, a 6 speed TL-S would have no problem keeping up with a stick S4 in my opinion. But if its true about the chips, that is fat... S4's can kick ass with those chips.

The NEW m3's differentiate it between it and a 3, but the old ones had very little done to it... a real sleeper look, but one that put me to sleep... just looks very bland and didnt improve upon a very old, outdated, boring old 3 series shape. Just my 2 cents.

Personally, I would buy the SS over a 6 speed even if they were both out right now. I'm gonna wait a couple months to buy my TL-S, but Id get the SS because 1-I drive in traffic, 2-sticks get irritating sometimes, and 3-my fiance needs to drive it. Oh yeah, you can move #3 to #1... hahahaha...

But the 6 speed is fat if you love sticks.

 

Damnit, make my choice if harder. Black - Silver-6sp-SS. what to do???

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Photoshop Chop Shop
The two most abundant elements in the universe are

• Hydrogen
• Stupidity

 

Could you quote the article where it says this? I looked at AutoWeek on he Web and couldn't find it. There have been a lot of rumors about the TLS getting a manual, but none have been definitive. If this says it plainly I'd love to see it. Thanx.

 

If the TLS will come out with the manual version, will the 4th and 5th gear ratios change dramatically? I'm not too technical when it comes to gear ratios, manual vs. auto.

Peter? I ask you cuz you're one of the few people on this forum that looks at the overall picture and logically No offense to anyone BTW.

 

AC --

Thanks for the nod, I hope I can answer w/ what I've learned over the past few months about the differences b/w manuals and autos. I imagine the difference will be similar to the difference b/w the auto Nissan Maxima (boring) and the manual Max (now this is something to talk about). 0-60mph on the manual is reported as low as 6.3 and the auto is always 8.0 to 8.1 seconds. Pretty stunning difference, however this is the diff. between a 4-spd auto (ultra-boring) and a 5-spd.

The difference will be dramatic, and I'll estimate as much as a 5.8 0-60mph time and a high-13 to low-14 1/4 mile time. The reason is pretty straight-forward:

1.) Gears 1 thru 3 will be much shorter -- if it's a six-speed, they are usually close-ratio -- 5th and 6th gears are your overdrive gears, and generally will not be as "tall" as the 4th and 5th gears in our TL-S's. The reasoning behind the TL-S' tall 4th and 5th gear is well.. marketing -- they're selling this car to an older age group, no need for their market segment to pull all the way up to the top speed .. what is it.. 147 mph???

Since this car will be market to a younger buying segment -- as are most manual trannied sedans -- it'll be reasonable to guess that this car's 6 spd will pull all the way up to 147 w/o "dying" at 5th. Check this out for comparison -- since the gearing of the new RSX isn't out yet, let's look at the NSX's manual gear box:

1st 3.066:1 **Note how consisent the drop
2nd 1.956:1 in ratio is ... very smooth
3rd 1.428:1 which is indicative of this
4th 1.125:1 car pulling consistently
5th 0.914:1 thru to its top speed**
6th 0.717:1

Also note how short 1st gear is!!

Let's revisit our TL-S:

1st - 2.563
2nd - 1.551
3rd - 1.021 ** note the difference? **
4th - 0.653 Just look at 1 -> 3,
5th - 0.470 and you'll see that there
is a wider spacing --
the engine has to labor
harder thru each gear (dies at 4th), whereas the 6-spd allows a quicker acceleration to
peak torque where you are in your 3500-5500 rpm broad, flat torque band -- then post-5500 you're in VTEC (actually VTEC opens earlier than 5500). When you launch at 4000 rpms, you're already in your power band, you pop the clutch and you're off (w/ good rubber up front -- you'll toast an auto TL-S). But, you have to be pretty slick at the manual if you want to take advantage of the 6-speed -- you need really quick, crisp shifts, and it wouldn't hurt to add a short-shift kit to the TL-S. If you power-shift (i.e. don't let-off the gas while engaging and disengaging the clutch thru shifts) .. heheh.. the TL-S 6-spd will smoke most cars on the road .. MOST.

The NSX engine is very similar to the TL-S in terms of design (certainly not in terms of materials used to produce both) .. The NSX 3.0 engine produces 252 hp at 6600 rpm -- very similar to the TL-S' 260 @ 6900 The NSX 3.0 also produces 210 lb-ft of torque at 5300 rpm, again, very similar to the TL-S. However, this beast only weighs 3100 lbs, and it's RWD. There is also a 3.2L version producing 290 hp and 224 lb-ft of torque.

But you can see the difference the six-speed box makes -- plus couple w/ that the fact that you can launch at high rpms (w/o the fear of overheating the torque converter) -- hell you can launch in the VTEC zone (4500?) and then consistently, and STRONGLY pull to 147 mph.. when the engine should govern your speed. Our auto problem is that we have to "wind up" to our peak torque .. in the manual, launching high, you'll already be there.

The intrinsic ailment of the TL-S will always still be the FWD aspect -- launch an TL-S RWD in VTEC .. and then a TL-S FWD in VTEC -- the RWD will launch much harder w/ less loss of traction for reasons we all have come to know very well.

As far as giving the S4 a run for its money? Not exactly, because you can launch an S4 at 5000 rpm.. or higher (as do most people w/ AWD systems .. i.e. Suburu WRX owners) and you will only hear a "chirp." . and the S4 will be off w/ AWD traction! We'll still be peeling out. However, a 5 mph - 1/4 mile dash should be pretty neck-and-neck. I'd love to hear more people's opinions of the 6spd -- thanks for the invite to comment!


<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by PeterUbers on May 10, 2001 @ ]</font>

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by PeterUbers on May 11, 2001 @ ]</font>

 

Sorry for the double-reply -- but I was just thinking -- add headers and intake to the new TL-S 6-spd -- and now you have a monster! Not to mention the manual trannied TL-S is putting down more power to the pavement than the auto -- due to the loss of power in an auto (approx. 23%) vs. the 15-18% loss in manual trannied cars. Hehe.. I think a modded TL-S (I/H/E) will take a stock S4 and stock '99 M3 -- by inches, but it'll take it.

 

Good, articulate post, Peter.

I wouldn't have dreamt of owning anything but a manual for my first 30 years of driving. I am very glad that age has made me appreciate the lazy automatic because, at a younger age, I would have been PI$$ED if I knew I could have waited a short time for a six-speed stick in the TL-S!

(Then again, I couldn't have afforded it then, anyway...)

 

F**K, this is making those germans really nervous! The manual will really blow all the so-called german performance cars to dust! Good for Acura :-)

 

The S4 auto is slightly slower than the TL Type S. These are the official figures...

Audi S4 TipTronic, 0-60 in 6.5 seconds
Acura TL Type S, 0-60 in 6.3 seconds

The .2 second difference should be imperceptible however. Remember that the Audi S4 is twin turbocharged and the TLS is NOT! So the performance of the TLS is nothing short of AMAZING and in my opinion puts Audi to shame!!! Thats Acura engineering for ya :-)

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by csxpert on May 11, 2001 @ ]</font>

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by csxpert on May 11, 2001 @ ]</font>

 

This is not good news, especially when you bought a TL-S this year. Acura should stop making changes/improvements so dramatically. They are certainly pissing off some customers. Whats' next...I know they're going adapt 5 valve technology and force induction to really get us going.

 

i'd wait till it actually happens before you started getting all pissed... people couldnt wait for TL-S and when it came out it turned out a lot of people didnt like the way it looked... who knows, maybe the 6-speed will look ugly (god knows 1st gen cl did) or maybe the tranny won't be the best in the industry, cuz other than the nsx, honda/acura doesnt have nething with this much horsepower on a manual... wait and see how it goes first

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'02 Nighthawk TL-S
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Comptech Springs / Comptech Headers
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Alpine CVA-1005 Head Unit / Alpine CDA-7863 CD Player / Alpine G320 EQ / Alpine DVA-5205 DVD / Alpine NVE-N851A Navi / JL Audio XR653-CS 3-Way comps for the front powered by a bridged Alpine MRV-F407 amp / Boston Acoustics 5.5 ProSeries 2-Way comps for the rear powered by Alpine MRV-1002 amp / Dual 10" JL Audio W-6 sub powered by Alpine MRV-1005 amp / Two Alpine CHA-1214 CD Changers / 20% Tint all-around

__________________
'00 Nighthawk TL
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Aem Short Ram / Comptech Sway Bars / Comptech Springs / Cross-Drilled Rotors / Pirelli SP7000 Tires / 35% Tint all-around
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Pics of my TL and Fun/Crazy Pics

 

The NSX engine is a 90 degree V6 (like the 3.5L V6 in the 3.5RL) while the TL/TL-s is a 60 degree V6, which is very similar to the 3.0L V6 found in the Honda Accord.

The Accord series of 60 degree V6 engines are found in the TL/TL-s/CL/CL-s/MDX and the Honda Odyssey. They belong to the J-series of engines from Honda, each of them varying in minor ways in addition to differences in bore and stroke. In other words, the 3.5L engine in the MDX/Odyssey are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the 90 degree 3.5L V6 engine found in the Acura 3.5RL.

Also, the NSX 3.0L (found in the Automatic versions) and the NSX 3.2L (found in the 6-speed manual versions) are totally different internally, in addition to the extra .2L displacement.


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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by hunter001 on May 11, 2001 @ ]</font>

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by hunter001 on May 11, 2001 @ ]</font>

 

It's all rumor. This is about the 100th topic about the CL-S and/or TL-S getting a manual. Apparently some Honda exec was quoted as saying the CL-S will have a manual this fall in the 2002 model, but no one ever mentioned the TL-S except the rumor mill. Funny how every single report contradicts the others. I'll believe it when I see it.......

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1998 Acura CL 3.0 (Iced Blue) ** Some mods, but who cares,
I want a Type-S... (CL or TL)!!

Moderator - 1st Gen Forum @ www.acura-cl.com

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by juniorbean on May 11, 2001 @ ]</font>

 

4th and 5th gears in the 2000+ models are tall in order to attain better gas mileage. Not very good for performance, but if you do a lot of highway driving it'll loaf along all day at 75 MPH (2000 RPM) and you won't ever hear the engine.

I really do like the A4/S4... but they're not as fast (stock anyway) as the numbers might have you believe. Their impressive acceleration times have a lot to do with them getting "out of the hole" quicker thanks to quattro... but after that's no longer a factor (say, on a rolling start) they're not all that quick. (as evidenced by my friend's neighbor who has a yellow S4 6-speed). They're a lot heavier than they look. Still very nice cars, though.

The TL-S 6-speed will be quicker than a lot of people expect -- making them believers will be half the fun!

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2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI w/bypass, Comptech header

 

Amen!! Actually, I'm not sure I'm not STILL pissed about the 6-spd!




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tblvinnie08
2002 Type-S
Black/Parchment

 

 

den s:

Touche -- I was actually (for some odd reason or another) comparing the '02 TL-S to the '01 TL --> I doubt I'll ever see an '02 TL-P in my life -- considering it's only another $1700 for the TL-S. There is no visual difference other than the enhanced wheels and the badging --> none the less, I stand by my comment that the S4 is a jellybean on wheels! LOL!

also, where I live, BMW 3-series and Audi A-series LITTER the road like copper and orange leaves on your lawn in the Autumn season. They are EVERYWHERE. The TL-S stands out (maybe not for long) like a sore thumb, as do the rare CL-S's I perhance to see.

As far as the 4th and 5th gears being tall for gas mileage -- right, this car is marketed to a crowd of people older than say.. those young-uns who'd rather enjoy the gas-greedy performance characteristics than the fuel-efficient, humble nature of the TL-S currently at highway speeds. If 4th and 5th weren't as tall-- you can kiss your supposed 31 mpg rating BUH-BYE!

Also, Honda's history w/ Luxury mid-size vehicle sales with manuals is less than spectacular compared to the Bavarian wonders like Audi, and BMW. The Legend Coupe --someone correct me if i'm wrong -- accounted for less than 5% of total Legend sales during the existence of its six-speed manual. And I'd think Acura would want to whet the general public's tastebuds a little longer before introducing a 6-spd TL-S --> not many people even know the TL-S exists!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by PeterUbers on May 11, 2001 @ ]</font>

 

Launching an S4 at 5000 will hurt you more than help. You don't need to launch at more than 3500 and you do not sidestep the clutch. It's not as difficult as launching a 2WD car, but it ain't as easy as you might think. That's why alot of S4 owners get beat by cars they shouldn't. I hate to say it, but alot of them have trouble launching the thing.....I don't.

 

No we won't be peeling out. Remember traction control. If we put the pedal to the floor, we will be lauching at maximum acceleration limited only by the stickiness of the front tires onto the pavement.
The manual TL-S will be a very close match with the S4, with heavy emphasis on the driver's skill in lauching and shifting.

 

The 3.0L NSX engine has 270 HP in manual form and 252 for the automatics. This is only for 91-96 NSX's. In 97 the manuals have 3.2L and 290 while the auto are unchanged.

My brother just bought a TL Type-S last month...sweet car. If i needed 4 doors and more then 2 seats that surely would be the car to get.

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92 NSX Red/Blk

 

While a TL-S with CT headers and the 6-speed may be quicker in a straight line, Honda still has a lot of work to do to get it to handle as well as an M3 or even a 330i for that matter.

Nevertheless, a step in the right direction - I can still rely on my S2000 for the handling I suppose.

 

Wow. .. there are quite a few S4 trolls on this board as of late -- it seems you guys and the Maxima trolls can seemingly SNIFF negative comments 'bout your cars and come a runnin' .. hehe.. just kiddin. Typical WRX's are launched around 5000+ rpms in order to pull a 14.3 1/4-mile run. Don't know too much about launching an S4 -- my comment was a generalization about the difference b/w launching a FWD vs. AWD. I would think that if I owned an S4, I'd figure out w/in a week how to drive the car -- this isn't rocket science. I'm sure you're dynamite at the wheel.

Traction control: The traction control impedes the launch characterics of the TL-S --> if you floor a TL-S from a stop and test the 1/4-mile.. you'll be pulling high 15's. w/o traction control on, floor it, you'll pull low 15's, high 14's. Traction control cuts fuel and redirects power to the other wheel, this is loss of continuous power to the drive wheels and results in a slower timeslip. Even the Corvette's 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are higher w/ traction on .. not by MUCH .. a few ticks, but notable.

 

You would be amazed at how many people still have trouble launching their car after months of ownership. Hey, I like all cars. I don't like saying one is really better than the other. Each car is designed to do something specific, in a certain way. That allows us all to chose what fits our needs best. The only thing I can say I don't like about the TL is the FWD. Other than that, it seems like a nice ass car. It will probably be one of the cars I look at for the future wife (that's if she makes that far ) I wanted RWD but the S4 just happen to have everything I wanted in one car. You guys have nice cars. We should all be happy we have cars that can surprise those who don't know. Many a V8 owner has been surprised by my car. Nothing like being able to run with some pony cars but without all the noise.

 

4Dr --

Amen brother, you're alright in my book. The Germans and Japanese sure know how to make a car --> I wonder why the domestics can't put out anything as nice as an M3, S4, or TL-S!

Pete

 

Autoweek 5/14 the TV show just showed a segment indicating that Acura would produce a 6sp manual later this year.

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Photoshop Chop Shop
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Vegetarians Taste Better

 

So what are the visual differences between the TL and the TL-S?

 

Could someone who a) read the article or b) saw the AutoWeek show say specifically what it said and who, if anyone, from Acura said it.

In particular, did it say that the TLS would get a manual tranny? or did it say that a manual was merely being considered or what exactly.

As we all know, there have been a lot of rumors with very little support on this topic. For example, there was an article that said a 6 speed manual was being *considered* for the CL (not the TL). Thus my skepticism, but if there is something substantial behind this incarnation, I would appreciate knowing.

 

unclefroggy ^^^ look up ^^^

The very short news segment said that a 6sp manual would be available this year for the TL-S (it did not mention the CL-S)




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Photoshop Chop Shop
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Vegetarians Taste Better

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by sneuxstorm on May 13, 2001 @ ]</font>

 

How can everyone being so sure about 6-speed WOULD be faster than Automatic?? What if the 6-speed has gear ratios similar, if not identical, to Auto???

Manual tranny is not necessary a faster choice now... Auto trannies are pretty advance...

BTW, for your information, SLK320 6-speed MANUAL is actually SLOWER than 5-speed Auto, from 0-60..

Andy Kuo

 

They better put some sticky rubber on the car(s).

The stock tires squeal like piggies now.

Can you image how they will scream if the 6-speed is a "close-ratio" box...

Hint -- sticky enough rubber on the CL-S/TL-S now, will almost make the VSA light stay off on anything but the hardest of take-offs.

 

For me its not the fact that it 'may' be quicker than an auto. Its the fact that I like to control what is going on with all aspects of the car. And, I take a special pride in myself when I excute a perfect 1-2-3 shift getting on every on ramp or the 5-4-3-2 getting off. Then there is the loss in effective power to the torque converter in the auto. Yes todays autos are getting better and better, but until Honda/Acura offer the unit that is in the Ferrari 360/F1 I would rather have the 5 or 6 speed. And if the 6 speed is anything like the 5 speed I have in my GS-R, I know I would be happy.

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Photoshop Chop Shop
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Vegetarians Taste Better

 

Sneux--

The "paddleshift", aka "F1" shift will debut, as you know, in the 2002 M3, as well as future BMW production models in the ///M suite of autos. Furthermore, the Corvette will also debut with this option in the 2003/4 model year. As far as performance goes, the electronic syncros and solenoid-based clutch work flawlessly, and in the M3, you can select S1 or S6 driving modes --> S1 is for normal everyday driving, while S6 is for extreme shifting --> a mode that'll perform JUST as well, if not better, than a whiz at the helm of a manual M3. It's cool technology, and i think it'll close the gap between manuals and "autos" in the future even more. Can't wait to try it on the Vette.

 

I just sold my comaro Z-28 with 6spd. I have owned 2 previous 5.0Liter Mustangs with 5spd. I bought my TL-type S and love the 5spd with the sport shift thing. You can shift it easier than any standard tranny I have ever driven and never use a clutch!! After having driven 3 cars with standard tranny including a 6spd, I would never have another one! The Acura Tranny is great!

 

I ( as I assume you do ) look forward to all the new technology. I will welcome anything that makes my life easier and the performance greater. When the engineers make something that does it better than me, I am there. For this next car that I should be getting at the begining of this next year, I will most likely get the auto, since this car is mainly for my wife, and she wants the auto....but.....I get the next one , So by then I hope that Acura has something 'new' to offer. Something on the lines of a true M3 competitor. ( are you listening Honda ).

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Photoshop Chop Shop
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Vegetarians Taste Better

 

Does anyone know if any other publication besides AutoWeek has said anything about the TLS geting a manual tranny?

Another source would be, for me, comforting/confirming. I;m planning to buy in the fall, so I can wait, but it would be nice to know so I don't buy 1 week before Acura announces or ships.