engine differences??? premium vs type s
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Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Miami , FL
engine differences??? premium vs type s
what gives the type S the extra juice???
cams, throttle body, intake manifold????, head covers?(for higher compression?)
if anyone really knows please educate us
cams, throttle body, intake manifold????, head covers?(for higher compression?)
if anyone really knows please educate us
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 279
Likes: 1
From: Mobile, Alabama
I just asked this question about a week ago. The S engine is the same displacement as the premium, but what gives the S the extra juice is the higher compression ratio, a dual stage exhaust, and a better intake. Don't know all the exact details, just know that's the main difference.
Boomer SOONER
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: McKinney, TX
Originally Posted by JRA2000TL
I just asked this question about a week ago. The S engine is the same displacement as the premium, but what gives the S the extra juice is the higher compression ratio, a dual stage exhaust, and a better intake. Don't know all the exact details, just know that's the main difference.
dual stage intake...not exhaust
:think:
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@ slide or die @
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,166
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From: s.FL
this is throttle body you want to upgrade to from a tp-P http://www.kingmotorsports.com/produ...939&vehicle=TL
Liquid Ice
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,909
Likes: 89
From: Northern Virginia, USA
The TL-S redline is 6900rpms too, versus the TL-P's 6300rpm redline ..
VTEC engages for the TL-S @ 4800rpms, 5500rpms for the TL-P.
At 4100rpms, the 2nd stage intake opens (actually, it just combines the two intake chambers) on the TL-S which helps to give you a flatter torque curve and a more linear horsepower curve through the mid-range.
The differences between the TL-P and TL-S engine are fairly significant and its not too easy to "mod" your engine for the extra 35hp. The original MSRP $2350 difference between the TL-S and TL-P was a bargain for the 35hp, 17" rims, sport seats, and tighter suspension..
You can see some more of the differences here:
LINK
VTEC engages for the TL-S @ 4800rpms, 5500rpms for the TL-P.
At 4100rpms, the 2nd stage intake opens (actually, it just combines the two intake chambers) on the TL-S which helps to give you a flatter torque curve and a more linear horsepower curve through the mid-range.
The differences between the TL-P and TL-S engine are fairly significant and its not too easy to "mod" your engine for the extra 35hp. The original MSRP $2350 difference between the TL-S and TL-P was a bargain for the 35hp, 17" rims, sport seats, and tighter suspension..
You can see some more of the differences here:
LINK
Senior Moderator
Joined: May 2003
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From: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
Originally Posted by OU Sig
dual stage intake...not exhaust
Racer
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 488
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From: kissimmee, fl
Originally Posted by LiQiCE
The TL-S redline is 6900rpms too, versus the TL-P's 6300rpm redline ..
VTEC engages for the TL-S @ 4800rpms, 5500rpms for the TL-P.
At 4100rpms, the 2nd stage intake opens (actually, it just combines the two intake chambers) on the TL-S which helps to give you a flatter torque curve and a more linear horsepower curve through the mid-range.
The differences between the TL-P and TL-S engine are fairly significant and its not too easy to "mod" your engine for the extra 35hp. The original MSRP $2350 difference between the TL-S and TL-P was a bargain for the 35hp, 17" rims, sport seats, and tighter suspension..
You can see some more of the differences here:
LINK
VTEC engages for the TL-S @ 4800rpms, 5500rpms for the TL-P.
At 4100rpms, the 2nd stage intake opens (actually, it just combines the two intake chambers) on the TL-S which helps to give you a flatter torque curve and a more linear horsepower curve through the mid-range.
The differences between the TL-P and TL-S engine are fairly significant and its not too easy to "mod" your engine for the extra 35hp. The original MSRP $2350 difference between the TL-S and TL-P was a bargain for the 35hp, 17" rims, sport seats, and tighter suspension..
You can see some more of the differences here:
LINK
hmm my type S vtec seems to kick in at like 5500??? i notice at low a RPM you can hear the dual stage intake make a kind of rumble noise since i have tanabe catback you can hear all engine activity clearly
Liquid Ice
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,909
Likes: 89
From: Northern Virginia, USA
Hrm, maybe they've got it backwards in the CL FAQ ... I just pulled it from there and it says VTEC engages @ 4800 for the Type S and 5500 for the Premium. Maybe they've got it backwards..
Just checked my specs and it does say 4800 for VTEC on the TL-S... dunno about the TL-P.
Just checked my specs and it does say 4800 for VTEC on the TL-S... dunno about the TL-P.
mine is around 4500rpm
Liquid Ice
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,909
Likes: 89
From: Northern Virginia, USA
Ok, I've been using the CL FAQ as my guide which is obviously not right ... From the horse's mouth. (Reference: http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3014?m...asc&archives=t)
In addition here are some other differences with the Type S:
"High-rigidity cylinder block with additional strengthening ribs for the TL Type-S"
"While both TL models have iron cylinder inserts, the Type-S engine adds unique spin-cast cylinder-wall liners that are cast into the engine block during the initial manufacturing phase. These spin-cast liners are lighter than traditional iron liners - and also improve heat dissipation to avoid engine knocking. Because they require fewer machined surfaces, spin-cast cylinder liners also simplify the production process. "
"For enhanced flow into the combustion chamber, the Type-S engine has specially designed, race-bred intake valves."
"The compression ratio is 9.8:1 in the 3.2 TL and 10.5:1 in the Type-S due to a taller piston dome. The pistons utilize a 3-ring design with the Type-S engine incorporating a unique angled top ring for an improved seal within the cylinder to accommodate the higher combustion pressure."
"On the Type-S, high-performance camshafts further increase power output by providing longer intake-valve duration, more valve overlap, and additional lift for the exhaust valves."
"The high-output Type-S engine has a larger-diameter exhaust pipe, an increased-flow, low-restriction catalytic converter, and ultra-high-flow capacity dual silencers. The result is a 30 percent increase in exhaust gas flow compared with the 3.2 TL. The Type-S also boasts an aggressive, performance-oriented exhaust note that settles into a subdued tone at cruising speeds."
Hope this helps to provide more insight on what goes into making the Type-S different mechanically then the Premium.
At low rpm, the VTEC intake valves follow a set of low-lift, short-duration cam lobes with timing that optimizes cylinder filling. In addition, the timing of the intake valves is staggered and their lift asymmetric - creating a swirl effect within the combustion chambers at lower RPM. The result is increased burn speed with improved combustion stability and an increase in allowable EGR rate. As the engine spins through 4400 rpm (4800 rpm on the Type-S), the intake rocker arms transition to actuation by high-lift, long-duration cam lobes designed to optimize high-rpm output.
DUAL-STAGE INDUCTION SYSTEM
Found only on the Type-S engine, this revolutionary dual-stage induction system is a major contributor to producing the V-6's robust 260 horsepower. At its heart, the system uses a large, two-chamber intake plenum separated by an electronically actuated butterfly valve, which opens at 3800 rpm.
At low and mid-range engine speeds, the valve is closed - creating a Resonance Charge condition where pressure pulsations between cylinders banks are separated. In doing so, air filling the cylinders increases with the resonance energy from the adjoining cylinder of each bank (Helmholtz principle).
At mid to high engine rpm, an electric motor opens the butterfly valve and an Inertia Charge condition is achieved. Increased air filling then occurs when the manifold volume is increased and the resonance charge condition is eliminated. This phenomenon utilizes the high flow mass to pressurize the manifold port air, producing a natural "supercharger" effect.
The increased airflow and improved cylinder filling is the fundamental reason for the engine's efficient combustion and increased power. Additional improvements include a larger 64-mm bore throttle body (which reduces air-intake restriction and increases total air flow volume), free flow exhaust, and a low-overall restriction air intake system with a free flow air filter and air flow tube.
Found only on the Type-S engine, this revolutionary dual-stage induction system is a major contributor to producing the V-6's robust 260 horsepower. At its heart, the system uses a large, two-chamber intake plenum separated by an electronically actuated butterfly valve, which opens at 3800 rpm.
At low and mid-range engine speeds, the valve is closed - creating a Resonance Charge condition where pressure pulsations between cylinders banks are separated. In doing so, air filling the cylinders increases with the resonance energy from the adjoining cylinder of each bank (Helmholtz principle).
At mid to high engine rpm, an electric motor opens the butterfly valve and an Inertia Charge condition is achieved. Increased air filling then occurs when the manifold volume is increased and the resonance charge condition is eliminated. This phenomenon utilizes the high flow mass to pressurize the manifold port air, producing a natural "supercharger" effect.
The increased airflow and improved cylinder filling is the fundamental reason for the engine's efficient combustion and increased power. Additional improvements include a larger 64-mm bore throttle body (which reduces air-intake restriction and increases total air flow volume), free flow exhaust, and a low-overall restriction air intake system with a free flow air filter and air flow tube.
"High-rigidity cylinder block with additional strengthening ribs for the TL Type-S"
"While both TL models have iron cylinder inserts, the Type-S engine adds unique spin-cast cylinder-wall liners that are cast into the engine block during the initial manufacturing phase. These spin-cast liners are lighter than traditional iron liners - and also improve heat dissipation to avoid engine knocking. Because they require fewer machined surfaces, spin-cast cylinder liners also simplify the production process. "
"For enhanced flow into the combustion chamber, the Type-S engine has specially designed, race-bred intake valves."
"The compression ratio is 9.8:1 in the 3.2 TL and 10.5:1 in the Type-S due to a taller piston dome. The pistons utilize a 3-ring design with the Type-S engine incorporating a unique angled top ring for an improved seal within the cylinder to accommodate the higher combustion pressure."
"On the Type-S, high-performance camshafts further increase power output by providing longer intake-valve duration, more valve overlap, and additional lift for the exhaust valves."
"The high-output Type-S engine has a larger-diameter exhaust pipe, an increased-flow, low-restriction catalytic converter, and ultra-high-flow capacity dual silencers. The result is a 30 percent increase in exhaust gas flow compared with the 3.2 TL. The Type-S also boasts an aggressive, performance-oriented exhaust note that settles into a subdued tone at cruising speeds."
Hope this helps to provide more insight on what goes into making the Type-S different mechanically then the Premium.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Appleton WI
Originally Posted by seattle dale
might be a stupid question, but, What exactley is V-tec
@ slide or die @
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,166
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From: s.FL
TL-p does get its v-tec at 4500, BUT at 3700-3800 it gets about 90% of its total power if we call v-tec 100%. i just tried it several times...
Is there anyway to make the TL-p engage vtec earlier? any ECU upgrades, piggybacks, hook-ons or magic available?
Is there anyway to make the TL-p engage vtec earlier? any ECU upgrades, piggybacks, hook-ons or magic available?
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