SL1200MK4

Background Info:

Dear friends, I have not been around this forum in the last few years and wow lots have changed. I recently learned about the 6 speed swap and I have read all the threads on that subject manner including the 90+ pages of the “6 speed obsession” thread. I have a few options here and I am not sure what to do. Your opinions will be greatly appreciated.

My 2000 3.2 TL has 100k miles on the motor. Just did the emission the other day and it passed with flying colors. The e-test readings were almost like a brand new car. Still the engine is burning oil a little bit and it knocks despite the smooth idle speed. Power is down a bit as well. CEL keeps on coming back on throwing the same code. But overall it is still running good, I would give it a 8 out of 10 considering its age and my driving style.

The car is on its second transmission that has about 62k miles on it. The transmission is okay, shifts a bit rough from 1st to 2nd when its cold. Hesitates a little between shifts a few times. We all know what will happen eventually. Rebuild or replace the automatic transmission is always an option but I am seriously considering the 6speed swap.


My Options:

Solution 1: Keep the TL-P motor, ecu and instrument cluster. Do the 6speed swap with Richie's harness and swap the transmission only.

Pros: Cost of parts is cheaper. Less labor involved. No need to reprogram the immobilizer key to a new ECU.

Cons: The motor will not last if I track the car. Currently I rarely rev above 4000 rpm to conserve the life of my engine. My chassis and transmission will likely out last the motor, especially if I drive the 6speed like it's meant to be driven.

If I do the swap, I plan the keep the car for a long time. What if something goes wrong with Richie's module and I cannot get a replacement for whatever reasons. I am stuck.

Not sure if this has been done before either, though I don't see any obvious problems here. Correct me if I am wrong but so far all the TL-P swaps have swapped their engine to J32A2 Type S motor at the same time.


Solution 2: Swap both engine and transmission with 03 CL-S 6spd engine/transmission/ecu/harness

Pros: All Honda/Acura Parts. Replacement parts will not be an issue in the future. The process is also well documented. The sticky thread of fsttyms1's swap being a prime example.

Power-wise, I am spoiled by 500hp+ monsters. So, the gain with the Type S motor is not a big deal to me. However since I hesitate to rev above 4000rpm with my current motor, the fresher Type S motor will feel like a 70-90hp gain with the more efficient 6speed gearbox. So, it will be noticeable and significant.

Cons: Definitely more labor involved. I will be paying a shop to do it and that means more $$$. More parts involved, too. Procurement is more costly and time consuming. If one of the parts is bad, it could hold up the whole project until the replacement arrives.

Type-S motor sits higher. Fitting is tight and fsttyms1 mentioned that he used a smaller bolt on one of the engine mounts. Not sure if I am comfortable with that. Not sure if the engine cover and sound dampening liner on the hood fit eventually with his swap. Will need a custom air intake as well, correct?

Then there is the whole issue of whether it will pass emission test or not. Though in theory it won't be a problem. I think I will only do this if can find the CL-S 6spd motor, transmission, ecu, harness, and instrument cluster. Basically a whole CL-S 6speed front clip. I don't think I will want to mess with or convert any parts from 5AT CL-S.

To summarize, it's time to collect parts if I want do the swap. Solution 1 is cheaper, but less than perfect. Solution 2 is costlier and labor intense, but the final result is more rewarding. Either way it is going to be a serious undertaking.

Any opinions, suggestions or critiques are welcome and highly appreciated.

phee

iTrader: (5)

YOurs missing option #3. Swap the engine, transmission and ECu with Robles harness. It's what I did. Everyone who has kept their stock engine has regretted it. 6 speed deserves a type-s

01tl4tl

as for the current motor and track day use:
Our super Mod fsstyms1 (fast times Won)
put 200,000 miles on a TL-p engine before going to the cl-s swap
He pulled the engine apart for inspection and found honing marks on the cylinder walls!
Still Like New!!
that on a car he did 15kmile oil changes, and put thousands of miles a month on the street,, plus many laps at Road America,,a 4 mile long high speed race course

if you do the swap go cl-S for the full effect,
otherwise have your trans rebuilt and do a few simple mods to the current setup
enjoy the car a few more year after that and sell it

SL1200MK4

So, option 3 is to swap in Type S transmission and engine. At the same time, keep the stock TL-P ECU, instrument cluster and use Richie's harness module, correct?

In that case, if I can find the CL-S 6spd engine harness, ecu, and instrument cluster for cheap. Then I could do without Richie's module.

phee

iTrader: (5)

That is correct. But spring for the type-s ECu. It's what I have. It's definitely a huge difference in power from the p. Plus u get a higher redline. U wil still need the richie module. The module tricks automatic engines and automatic ecu's into working with the manual transmission. It saves u about 800$ worth of extrenous parts.

Read the 6 speed threads and do some research.

SL1200MK4

If I get the 6speed manual CL-S engine and 6 speed manual CL-S ECU, then I believe that I can do without Richie's module. Correct?

Of course the availability of the 6speed CL-S engine is limited compared to 5AT J32A2 which can be sourced from both TL and CL Type S and in that case the 6speed transmission can be sourced from CL-S, 3rd Gen TL, or Accord V6 but without the LSD.

My TL has a lot of sentimental value to me. The 6speed swap gives me a good reason to keep her around.

AznWay

iTrader: (8)

That correct you won't need Richie harness. But remember you will have to get all Wire Harness from 6 speed CL.
The list below is from fsttyms1 6speed thread about all wire you will need to complete your conversion.

If you already have a Type-s you MAY Not need these????
Right side cabin to engine comp harness 32100-S3M-A12
Left side cabin to engine comp harness 32120-S3M-A20

I Would attempt with out (that i bought and used with out trying without first) It will make not having to do all the rewiring of
that i did.
Upper instrument harness 32117-S3M-A31
Lower dash harness 32150-S3M-A32

03 CLs-6 Manual Engine Harness. 32110-PGE-A11


I done 6speed conversion in June an i can say your better off with Type-S engine vs regular TL-P what another $300-500 for better engine in long run...

spoTLess

"There is no power difference between doing the complete swap with ecu and harness vs the modules. The module just makes life much easier..." fsttyms1

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/6mt-swap-module-789736/#post12299513

SL1200MK4

Yes, Richie's module does make life a lot easier. It was some serious reverse engineering and development effort. He also improves the module design and production process with each generation. From what I have seen, the quality of his product is top notch. He also seems to be very supportive in terms of providing tech support.

My only concern being that what if Richie decides to leave the business and something goes wrong with his module. Then you will be out of luck and out of support. I live in Canada with extreme heat in the summer and then lot of snow and salt in the winter. His module does look properly sealed, so I am not too worried, but it is still a calculated risk that needs to be factored in.

I could buy two modules from Richie and keep one as a backup. After all, the chance of me finding a Type-S 6spd engine with transmission and ECU at the right price is fairly slim. I think only about 3500 CL-S 6speed were made.

spiro

I am in toronto with a 2003 tl 6spd swap with richie harness.
Want to take a look? pm me.

phee

iTrader: (5)

I mentioned "robles" harness earlier, my phone auto corrected "richie" there is no such thing as robles harness lol

phee

iTrader: (5)

I have no doubt richies harness will go the distance. Mine has been real hot. Hot enough to melt wires (my own fault) and still functioned perfectly. It's a simple design (as simple as possible) that's always a sign of good engineering.

spiro

Thank you.
I just got reved up about, tearing apart that poor tl again.

SL1200MK4

Thank you. PM sent

SL1200MK4

I figured. I google "Robles harness" and this thread came up top of the this.

SL1200MK4

By the way, I am not trying to attack or cast doubt about a fine product by Richie. I hope no one gets the wrong idea and I hope that Richie is not offended in anyway.

Call it a professional hazard for being in the software industry, I always get a bit uncomfortable with proprietary software/firmware products, even when the product is already proven.

I haven't worked out the cost difference between solution 1 & 2. I think that will really determine which route I eventually go with. It doesn't make sense for me to sink too much money into the swap (say 5K) when I can just use that money towards a proper sports car.

One possibility is to go with solution 1 and swap just the transmission. Drive the hack out of it and if the motor goes, drop in a Type S J32A2. Plenty of 5AT J32A2 out there at a good price, and I already got the Richie's harness. So, no need to get new ECU, harness and what not.

SL1200MK4

I meant top of the "list" of the results. Oh the irony.

calgaryjdmua5

Hey guys iam sure this thread has not been looked at in a while but Iam in the midst of doing a 6spd swap and as I got to the cross members they are different which was expected but now has anyone ran into this issue do I stick to the original set up or the cl-s setup any help would be appreiciated.

fsttyms1

You can use your cross member. The mounts are different but bolt up to it. The only thing that will need modification if you go that route is the engine dampers. Personally id pass on those and get the ingals stiffy mount from excelerate.