fsttyms1

Never had vsa (which is a waste of money and a hinderance any way).
Plus you wouldnt get rid of the whole ecu any way, you would use it for baisic functions, but use the oters to do the controling that needs to be done

fsttyms1

Whats the point of a warranty? well lets see. to get it covered for free! Honda has been trying to solve the problem. They have tried different parts that havent worked.(which is why im skeptable on the Dr Evil tranny since no info is stated) Sure it works on the 4 speed, but that tranny is a different tranny and not the same. They had better cooling to begin with.
And like i said before find me 1 company that did what you suggested with out having it been a manditory recall???

av6ent

I thought you guys have VSA as CL-S 5AT. Strange.

fsttyms1

Only the TL-S got that. The both of us have TL-P

av6ent

Huh? This transmission warranty is a BIGGEST WASTE of time (customer) and money (dealership) since Honda still offers a FAILED PRODUCT. Instead, Honda could easily design (from scratch) a permanent solution that really works since they waste more money with this assembly and useless parts rather than anylize/test issues and create again a real transmission not just a fix that fails again and again.

Show me any company who has similar issues with transmission - there is NONE to this extent period. And as far as 4AT you wrong - there is NO better cooling. Same bearing/clutch packs massive overheating, jerking issues, slipping, CEL then its dead I posted above at least 3 quotes from OEM 4AT failure and 1 with new car at only 9K mi. I'm so happy I get rid of that '01 POS after 18K mi when it noticed first signs of random slipping

While you still argue on Dr. Evil which is fine with me since they didn't share details what was really done to cool it off nor they ever will, but experience of others shows it REALLY works especially those (posted) dynoes with decent power. And if Dr. Evil can take over 300whp and allows beating on it than IT REALLY WORKS and will work even much longer on stock cars or lightly modded. OEM can never handle that much power regardless of cooling or internals strengh, just check with CL-S auto supercharged guys who abandoned their cars with one reason - OEM failed autotragic.

Finally, there is no "recall" nor will there ever be. Recalls are typically only issued if there are safety concerns and are done either voluntarily by the manufacturer or forced by the NHTSA. There are not really any safety concerns with the transmission failures and therefore there will not be any recall. Honda simply replaces the transmission on a case by case basis as they occur and they do daily.

fsttyms1

It would cost them alot more to completly redesign the tranny to allow larger clutchpacks or whatever else they found would work.

Yes there are companies with problems to this extent. Chrystler is 1 of them with a tranny worse than this and they do nothing for the owner. Yes the 4 speed does have better cooling there is less packaging inside. thats 1 of the reasons they last longer than the 5 speed. never said they were perfect, just lasted longer. Hence teh better results with the Dr Evil tranny.

You keep tossing out that their tranny can handle over 300hp. WHO CARES.(with a solid 3rd gear setup i bet teh oem one would too) We want a tranny that will last over 100k miles. And unless they can atleast tell us how they improved cooling and more details on what they did i dont care for their word. (plus i talked to them and it didnt reassure me 1 bit) How many of these "others" have 5 speeds, and how many of these "others" have 20-30+k miles on them. Most of our trannies dont fail till 40+k. adding better clutchpacks will only prolong but not fix, so instead of 40, maybe its 60-80k when it fails.

Finally i know there is no recall for the tranny! The did have one for the 2nd gear shaft, but not the 3rd. And if you dont think its a saftey concern, try flying down a busy hwy at 80 or passing a few cars and having your tranny decide it was time to let go and go into 2nd gear! I and many others have. I never said there was going to be a recall. just wanted you to find me a company that wasnt forced by the NTHSA to recall a part to extend a warranty like honda did. Atleast they have been TRYING.

av6ent

Wrong. The amount would be much less than constantly replace with the same OEM failed piece of crap. See below (actually found) recall figures.

I know bunch of soccer moms (their kids coach is my friend) with Chrysler/Dodge vans and they would bitch first if something like that happend - never heard of any transmission problems. In fact, Odyssey moms report constant transmission issues instead. My pops using Dodge Durango as a winter beater and everything fine. Friend is using freakin Sebring as beater too - no issues.

Gee, do you know the difference between 300HP and 300WHP? Everybody fucking care who understand if Dr. Evil CAN HANDLE THAT power than there is something unique. You have NO CLUE was was done to it neither do I or anybody else but Dr. Evil and it DOES WORK as others shops failed (Level10, VR, PRT, AAMCO, etc.) Just wait and see how long it (Dr. Evil) last. So far the highest mileage on FI cars known is 35K and NA over 43K so I'd say if it can take 75K on FI cars it will run forever on stock or lightly modded.



Actually there was and I was not aware of it. Look at the numbers how much this recall costed Honda. Instead, HALF those money OR LESS as I suspect would rather gone on new SOLID OEM development rather than replace that piece of crap used on all V6 vehicles and waste money/time with pissed off customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloomberg News

Honda expands U.S. auto recall for transmission flaw

Honda Motor Co. is widening a recall of vehicles in the U.S. and Canada to 1.14 million units, among its largest, covering Accord and Acura cars that have the same transmission fault that triggered a light-truck recall this year.

Japan’s third-largest automaker is voluntarily recalling 536,950 vehicles, with V-6 engines and 5-speed automatic transmissions, in addition to those already announced in April. The company is also recalling 79,531 units in Japan to fix faulty transmissions and fuel tanks, starting tomorrow.

The inspections and repairs will cost Honda about $63 million, in addition to the $153 million being spent on the light- truck portion of the recall, spokesman Andy Boyd said. In Japan, Honda is spending about $8.5 million on its recall.

Honda’s North American recall includes 2003- and 2004-model Accords, 2000- through early 2004-model Acura TL sedans, and 2001- through 2003-model Acura CLs, Boyd said. In April, the company recalled 600,000 U.S. and Canadian Odyssey minivans, and Pilot and Acura MDX sport-utility vehicles with the same transmission.

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

av6ent, with all due respect, Honda probably would NOT have saved money by redesigning the tranny. first you have to do R&D, which costs a ton of money to begin with, then there is the time factor. it takes time....and testing, which both cost money and force people to wait, allowing more failures to pile up...and the government scrutiny in some cases.

ok, now comes the manufacturing issue, honda probably has extensive contracts with parts suppliers and manufacturing firms for pieces that make up their trannies. we all know it's a honda transmission, but we also know that little pieces and big pieces that make up the whole tranny come from other people (i.e. - denso, etc.) you can't just go changing deals or layouts, because it means that the manufacturer plant has to change it's machinery, presses, dies, etc. and then they lose money/time/other clients due to waits. then the honda assembly plant has to change it's machines, programs, q/a procedures, etc. to accomodate a new tranny assembly method to accomodate new parts.

considering this tranny is widely used i bet the cost to change manufacturing processes would have been extensive. especially when you consider they probably had contracts for those models of transmission to begin with and they would be legally bound to pay for it, so why wouldn't they still install it in people's cars? so in the long run, a simple inspection and changeout was probably expected to save alot of money.

now whether or not they thought they would have to do the same thing *5* times on the same car (in some cases) probably never crossed their minds. they probably didn't think it would be so bad for the clutchpack issue. looking back they would probably tell us they would do it differently. whether or not cases like fsttym1's are actually costing them more than they figured, i couldn't tell you.

personally though, i'm interested in the dr. evil tranny and i thank you for taking time to post here about it. i will bide my time until my warranty is up though. plus i only know of one failed VR tranny from someone on this board, and i think the jury was still out on the failure mode. no?

and on a side note, you guys are getting pretty worked up over this. can we please be civil to eachother? i respect fsttyms1's knowledge greatly. he's seen alot more than most of us. and we all appreciate av6ent bringing us another option....even if some of us are skeptical (including myself, despite being openly interested). the point is that we need to respect eachother or it's going to be tougher moving forward to get people to work with us

SSTS

fsttyms1

You know im not even going to argue past this point. You seem to think that Dr.Evil is the only way to go.

As for not ever hearing that chrystler has the wost trannies on the planet, I think you need to do a little research. They have had trannie problems since the creation of the "mini van"

Yes i know the difference. I have built engines that have put down more than that in WHP.

Do you have a clue as to what is actually the problem in our cars? have you ever seen the parts? I have the parts laying in my garage. If you would like i could take some pictures to show you. NOTHING is breaking. and power isnt the problem

Oh and to redesign, retool, recast, test, Refit (the big issue) a completly new tranny would cost more than the above figures.

fsttyms1

Thank you and Agreed.
This is going to have to get back on topic or its getting closed.(which ill take some blame for)

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

no problem man. we all like you here don't stop spreading the knowledge around!

SSTS

av6ent

We are on topic here discussing the transmission.

I'm not going to bother proving why I think Honda can make a solid tranny with half recall money by either redesigning existing or creating completely new. So let's just leave at that.

I did share this info for your benefit regarding Dr. Evil, skepticism is normal but should be taken into an account there is something out there that does work. We'll just have to wait and see how long but anything over 75K mi with supercharged car would be a winner since stock cars will run much longer.

As far as internals parts yes I have seen what's inside with ATF feed lines,
mainshaft/countershaft gears, cluth disks, etc. You should see G35 5AT transmission - piece of art.

fla-tls

Defintely, Chrysler 604 and 606 transmissions are notoriously bad. (those include Chrysler minivans, sebrings, pt cruiser, Dodge stratus, etc.)

The new Ford Explorer 2002+ 5R55W (and associated Jaguar 5R55N) trannies are also failing at a high rate. In fact, the back of the forward planet is made of plastic (nice...). We normally see them with only 60k to 100k miles.

fsttyms1

Yes the TL tranny is a weird one being 3 shaft and very small clutchpacks. Its also the heaviest tranny ive lifted this side of a big ol chevy HD allison tranny.

fsttyms1

Yea my neighbor at my cottage has been thru 2 trannies and 1 rear end on his 04 explorer. some one else i know up there has had 1 tranny go alread on her explorer (also a 04) and both have less than 50k miles

fla-tls

Cool, the 2004 is the 5R55S - we haven't seen one of those yet. I'll have my cash register ready!

j/k

fsttyms1

may have to wait a few till the warranty is up

sbuswell

bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch. sorry but the only solutions is a completely different tranny to begin with. ours has a deisgn flaw and better internals will not fix the design flaw, period. This is coming from a guy with a 99 TL with original tranny with 122k+ miles(still has never slipped) and has I/H/P/S/E and a few other engine mods. IMO the tranny in my car handles the power very well and I push it a lot. I say close this thread until Dr. Evil himself decides to post with real stats about performance and longevity.

RUF87

I wonder how many people have read the lengthy thread under Transmission Recall Q&A by EricL. It's a long read, but really explains the issue . . . which as fsttyms1 points out isn't because of weak internal parts, it's the lack of effective lubrication that results in excess heat . . . as in high excess heat the ends up toasting the internals.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104677

So while Dr. Evil's trannies should last longer with better parts . . they too would eventually fail from the design flaw. While I respect Dr. Evil's wish for keeping his redesign a secret, it would be good to know, er have them confirm that they have directly addressed the design flaw that is clearly outlined in the above link. And they wouldn't have to provide the "secret" details, just confirm they directly addressed the design flaw with their redesign . . or fix . . . and as was noted, the Honda oil squirter fix was a band-aid at best on a mortal wound.

That said, all the other mods done by Dr. Evil would result in a better performing tranny . . . better shifts, less parasitic HP/TQ loss . . all resulting in better 0-60 and 1/4 times.

What would be nice to see is a before and after dyno as well as track times. I've always said I believe that a tranny as described by Dr. Evil would improve my 1/4 times by 4-5ths . . . that's nice, but that price tag is just too rich for me . . .

So, I guess I'll be waiting for that time when the OEM tranny goes and I'm no longer under warranty . . if I still have the car

Ruf

bx-tls

This is one of the more informative thread i have read so far. Not going to lie, half the things you guys are talking about I really am not familair with. Before , if my tranny failed i was only going to turn to honda. But just from this thread, there is more than one company working on something, so at least now I can have some plans. I am a skeptics but also open to the idea of a Dr. Evil transmission or any other that would work. I could sense the emotions involve, some very strong belief being express. Still we should try to keep everything within a respectable discussion. I would still like to know more, some very knowledgable people here with some good insght.

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

i've gotta bump this thread back up. what's going on with this? has anyone gotten one of these yet or know someone who has?

SSTS

rlevy

What changes did Acura make in the third generation automatic transmissions? Are they essentially the same as the second generation with some improvements, or are they really different? I was just wondering what Acura did to eliminate most of the problems that the second generation transmissions had.

fsttyms1

from my understanding the 3rd gen tranny has been completly redesigned, and they took into account of the 2nd gen design problem. while some early on 04's had some issues, i dont know what they were and what they did to resolve them

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

the funny thing is, that if you go to acuraautomotive parts, the exploded diagrams of the 3rd gear clutchpacks and gears for years for 2005 and 2002 are basically the same....construction-wise (although it could just be an old drawing re-used).

concerning materials though it looks like they have the same number of friction discs, but they're thicker than the ones in the 2nd gen, and thicker plates on the clutch ends. the piston is different, but i don't know how, as the website does not elaborate.

so from this perspective it looks like they just beefed up the size of the clutch so it can absorb more heat. and i imagine the cooling design has been changed to increase flow to this particular area inside the casing. maybe the thicker clutch material is something we can use on the 2nd gens....although i'm sure it would require some cleverness.

any techs want to jump in on this for us?

SSTS

fsttyms1

Half the problem was size. If they were able to make it larger in any way it would have helped out drasticaly. Compared to say like a GM tranny (which are some of the best out there) the acura clutch pack in the 2G TL was 1/3 smaller and the friction disks were thin

Billy Sacco

Forgive my ignorance I am no major mechanic by any means. If you are saying the parts need to be made bigger then why isn't this done by DR. Evil VR or any of the other companies that rebuild the trannies for our car? How hard would it be to just have bigger parts made? Would they just not fit then?

fsttyms1

Because you cant. The size thats in there are the size it has to be due to the tranny design. The clutch guides are as big as they can be and you cant fit any more or larger disks in it


4 is the guide 3 and 6 are the plates and clutches that fit inside the guide. None can be made bigger. the tranny case and shaft design wont allow it

unlemming

Would a 3rd gen tranny bolt onto a 2nd gen engine? Seems like it should..

fsttyms1

It would bolt up but most likely not work. Its controlled differently due to the 3rd gen computer controling and drive by wire

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

OK, i'm gonna bump this up once a month until i hear something. did anybody end up getting one? i know there has to be at least one person on this board who did. let us know what's going on with it. we need to keep our eyes on this topic to see if it is anywhere near a fix for us.

SSTS

fsttyms1

no one has gotten 1. I wouldnt until a litte more details are given By Dr Evil as to "what" they have done to make it bullet proof. If they cant say where or what they did to improve teh 3rd gear proplem id be skeptable. Why not call them and ask and see if you can get some answers and tell they you wont be intrested untill they can atleast give you some detail to what they did to "FIX" the problem

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

not a bad idea. i'm just as curious as everyone else. maybe i will. i thought for sure somebody here got one. guess i'll go troll the forum to find out who in the tl group there got one.

SSTS

malingator

For what it's worth..I don't know anyone w/ a Acura upgrade from them but....I do know a few guys that are running about 500hp on some very strange set-ups..one is a Volvo 850...They all SWEAR this is the most "bulletproof" tranny set-up they could find anywhere in the US...might be worth a look...

http://www.levelten.com/

acutee

I believe reading somewhere someone reported levelten did not last neither.

av6ent

There are 2 or 3 people who ordered 5AT but I don't know who they are. One CL-S guy from cl board here going to order soon.

As far as Dr. Evil reliability - 7 or 8 (known at v.6.p.net) 4AT guys currently driving mostly supercharged Accords and have various mileage/power and some have over 20K miles on it with expected performance. And as mentioned to this date Dr. Evil produced over 50 4AT (Accord/CL 3.0) I think since mid '04, it says a lot.

Level10 is junk 'malingator' it's been posted with bad results on turbo AV6 a while ago. 4 companies tried to rebuild one and failed, Dr. Evil is the one who currently works with 4AT. I don't see any reason it shouldn't on 5AT, and yes nobody knows what they did different and they won't share the details. MrV6 (owner of v.6.p.e.r.f.o.r.m.a.n.c.e board) personally ordered one for his AV6 (Accord V6) to be ready for upcoming SEMA after numerous issues with different manufacturies/shops who attempted to rebuild one and failed. Dr. Evil again is the only one who works.

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

hey nice to see you're still around. i'm excited to see what the other guys have to say seeing as my warrantee is up in about 14k miles now....or about 10 months the way i drive.

and i do have to side with the others to some extent here that your boss should at least come out and give us a little insight on what was done to the tranny. now i understand that there is some proprietary knowledge there and he doesn't want people just picking up his hard work and using it for their own for free, but he's up against a fine line if he expects people to just jump at the chance to buy a "black box" transmission. besides, if he's applied for a patent on the upgrade then he is protected by law from someone messing with his design for their own gains.

i'm sure there's plenty he can say without divulging everything about exact tolerances and measurements and specifications. and even if he did, 99.99999% of the people on this board don't have the means to go out and reproduce his work anyway.

just a friendly suggestion.

SSTS

SodaLuvr

Well, Phoenixhardparts can get you a remanufactured 5AT transmission for about $1500 shipped, with all latest updates. You may want to check w/them to see if they have the revised clutch packs. They say they perform all latest updates.

Just my , but I believe transtec is the leader in aftermarket transmission parts. Check with them to see if they have revised clutch packs for the 5AT transmissions, as I somehow have a feeling that they do, as they have many bulletins avaliable for download regarding Honda 5AT transmissions.

av6ent

My boss?

Not only I do work in completely different field (Information Techonology), and do not reside in Illinois (Dr. Evil location), yet I currently drive a completely different vehicle which has nothing to do to with Honda/Acura. I can't speak for the main Dr. Evil guy, but I'm sure he's too busy and has no intentions to come over here, justify and convince the rest what exactly he's done to get more business since his product is build per order anyway and continues to do so with numerous happy customers. If someone really wants to know, why not just call him directly and try to twist his arm regarding the details.

That's ok, I did shared the info (credit to myself, lol), it's your choice people to accept it or reject. That's cool with me, from this point on I really care less. Let Acura explain all the details on why OEM transmission never rule out a deserved recall due to a design flaw for many many years, unlike new Camry where Toyota had balls to immediately announce one. I mentioned before many tried and failed and Dr. Evil remains the only one (documented) who works and deliver expected results.

I had POS 4AT with '01 Accord V6 and got rid of it after the same damn OEM replacement. In fact, it was done twice with same unhappy results. I wish I'd discovered Dr. Evil then to keep AV6 as a daily driver or more. And as I said they rebuild several 5AT J-series successfully. Again, just sharing.

blk2001tlon19s

Ok

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

hmm, my bad. you have a g35, right? for some reason i thought you were business affiliates or something with Dr. Evil. i must have gotten the wrong impression from the beginning of the thread. i thought you worked in distribution for him or some kind of sales or finance end of the business.

maybe dr. evil is too busy to explain his product ::shrugs:: i'll call him and see what's up myself and find out what kind of a business man he is.

SSTS