Xorg

One thing that's amazed me in reading the topics here is how few people know the tricks dealers play to get them into bad deals on cars. Figured this topic could help some folks out!

I'll start with this dealer "insider trick"...

Dealers are taught to play on emotions. They love nothing better than to watch a man and woman walk into a dealership together, be it husband and wife, or boyfriend girlfriend, since they know the odds are quite good that they'll probably argue and disgree about something about the car, and that one of them will want a car more than the other.

But how do they figure out who to play to land the sale?

Some couples will openly express their emotions and argue in front of a dealers, but most will want to "discuss" a car in privacy away from the dealer's prying ears (ever notice how a dealer will never leave you alone in the dealership and how they tag along like puppies? When they do give you space, it's always only so far away so they can still hear what's being disucssed...)

Now the classic tactic...

After feeling the couple out, the dealer still can't figure out who really wants the car and who to play. So, let's have a seat and talk a bit more - let's look over the car's brochure and color choices - that can't hurt can it?

Dealer engages in some small talk, and then says "oh, excuse me, I need to check on something..." and he walks away, typically well out of earshot and sight, and most often into a back office, or where the sales manager can be found.

Believing that they are finally alone and free to talk, the couple starts arguing, or discussing the price, what color they want, do they want buy or lease, can they really afford the car, etc.

What they don't know is that just before the dealer left "to check on something", the dealer pressed the intercom button on the telephone at the desk, and he and the sales manager and merrily listening in on the couple's entire conversation. (Sometimes the dealer will get a call from the sales manager first before running off, affording to opportunity to press the button.)

Mysteriously, when the dealer returns (often when the debate is near an end), he now knows what the couple can pay for the car, who really wants it, what color that person wants, and more, and start gearing the sales pitch at the decision maker.

Now you know!

Darla

I'd guess the morale of the story is to do your homework long before you go to the dealership. There's an enormous amount of information available today that was not around just a few years ago (primarily on the Web), such as invoice pricing, recent sales prices, sales volume, etc. Whoever doesn't make use of the tools can only fault themselves for a bad deal (IMHO).

8ball

You got that right, Darla!

Crzy Acura

ahh thats why i did things over the internet and over the phone..

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Crzy Acura on May 14, 2001 @ ]</font>

Nick

I read an interesting article on either Edmunds or KBB a few weeks back where a reporter went under cover to work at a car dealership. It was very informative. It not only revealed the 'intercom' tactic, but the one which I found most enlightening was the use of the 'quad' work sheet a dealer would use. One box for the new car price, one box for the trade in vehicle, one for your monthly payments, and one for ???. They could give you some concession in one of the boxes, but you would have a hard time seeing it added to another box. The salesman might start off asking how much of a monthly payment you were figuring on and when you tell him, he would say "UP TO"!

It's a lengthly article, but well worth spending the time reading through.

tumap

Lucky me for English is my second language

Fiddler

Nick - how about the URL to that article?

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-Fiddler
ControlGenie Automation Systems
1998 Accord EX V6 Coupe (HomePage)

oracion

Thanks for the useful article.

AcidHorse

HEY! That one I never even considered!!

There is a way to defeat that, however.

When you go into a dealership and need of a salesperson's assistance, DO NOT even speak to the old guy that has tons of "Salesperson of the Year" awards hung in his office; he's the well seasoned veteran who knows the tricks and will eventually swindle you with everything you got with the exception of your first born.

LOOK for the young, poor sap/teenager who just graduated from high school or college who's never had a sale lately. He's the one who always looks lost walking around the dealership.

Unfortunately everytime I ask a salesperson how long they've been working at that dealership, they ALL seem to say 6 months.

But you can eventually tell if they're a newbie or not.

Pimpin_TL

Gillman Acura in nORTH HOUSTON pulled that shit on my! I ****ing HATE GILLMAN ACURA NORTH HOUSTON.

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'99 3.2 TL

Black/Black
Burlwood Shift Knob
Bodykit
Spoiler
Tint

Xorg

I learned most of my dealer tricks after considering a car dealer job for the summer during college. After a day's worth of "Here is how you lie, cheat, and steal", and walked out of class and never went back :-)

Xorg

Legand> Only problem with the go to the newbie idea is that every deal has to be run by the Sales Manager anyway. Sometimes you're better off finding out who that is, and just making it clear you know your stuff and don't want to waste time. Most smarter sales managers now know how to work with smart folks who do their homework online, but there are still a lot of old timers out there who consider it an insult that you can figure out what they make on each car. Stay far away from those guys...

Case in point, last week I worked with a sales manager - we got within $200 on the price, then he started playing games with the lease rates - even though he knew I had a lease calculator spreadsheet in hand.

He lost the sale immediately, since I knew he was an old timer who wouldn't deal honestly and fairly. He tried bury fees and figures that would have cost me over $1,400 more over the life of the lease - when he knew I had the correct lease figures right in front of me!

Guest

hey guys.. just wondering.. is it LEGAL to walk in a car dealership, say you want to buy a car and pay for it in full on the spot... in CASH?

-lew

8ball

Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

Just to clarify, however, sure it's legal. But if you really mean CASH, as in stacks of hundred dollar bills, yer askin' fer trouble. If your dealer abides by the law(results here may vary), you will promptly be visited by your friendly federal authorities. Federal law requires reporting of all cash (green money) transactions of $10,000 or more. The feds would be sniffin' into a whole lot more than your shiny new car.

I'd recommend a cashier's check with maybe $1k in cash (for negotiating room) or your platinum card.

Guest

yes it's legal but I do recall hearing somewhere that any cash purchase over 10K was reported to the IRS/FBI

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

That is most certainly correct (my dad used to work at a bank).. and any bank deposits over $5K in cash money (maybe more by now) is supposed to acompany a form you fill out stating exactly where you received the money from --> or something to this effect.

Nick

I had a heck of a time trying to find it myself again -- no wonder you couldn't stumble across it. It starts at http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html Happy reading!

AcidHorse

The good thing about that is the dealership's finance guys won't make any money!

mikester

Yes, you can do that (subject to the government hassles others have mentioned), but it would be stupid.

The better thing to do is negotiate a good price on the car and let them think you are financing. You can probably get a lower deal than if they knew you were paying cash, because they think they can make some of it up in the financing.

It might even help to tell them you have had some credit problems in the past and you're not sure if it has cleared up yet. When they run your credit and see that you have good credit and qualify for a lower interest rate, they will probably quote you a higher rate, thinking that you won't know that your credit is good enough to get the lower rate. This will mean additional profit for the dealership, so you could possibly get them lower on the price.

Then, when you go to the F&I guy, suddenly change your mind and pay in cash. There are a couple of things to watch for:

First, I knew a guy that did this, and the finance guy got really pissed off. He started yelling at him and calling him every name in the book. The guy had a signed sales order, so they had to honor that price, so the finance guy was trying to piss him off so he would walk away from the deal.

Second, I used this once and during negotiations, they actually made me sign something saying that I would finance through them and not pay cash. At that point, I knew I had worked the deal where they were depending on the financing for their profit, so I signed the paper. What you do in this case, is go ahead and finance the car, then just pay it off with your cash when the first payment is due.

Aralan

My piece of advice on this would be... NEVER go to the dealer with anyone else when you're looking to deal. If your spouse/SO must look at the car, have them go to a different dealer. It's of the utmost importance to be able to play hardball with these guys at a moments notice, and you can't do that if you have someone else there sabotaging the deal
with their actions.

I violated this with my girlfriend when buying her car... However I was completely behind her buying it and took great pleasure in beating the dealer over the head to give her a better deal. After we had finished negotiating the purchase price, it came time to handle the trade-in value. Needless to say after coming very close to invoice on the car (a 2000 Accord EX), the dealer tried to screw us on the trade-in. This is where my girlfriend's mother came in. She spent no less than two hours harassing the dealer about the trade-in price. In the end, they gave us the amount we wanted, and the dealership asked her if she wanted a job. ;-)
I respect her negotiation skills.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

That's a great article!! Long, but awesome....




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1998 Acura CL 3.0 (Iced Blue) ** Some mods, but who cares,
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virtualxjk

what you said was so true...i'm korean and i went to the dealership with my mother (because she was buying me the car) and it was so nice that we were able to speak to each other in korean and not have the salesperson not know what we were saying.

@sport

Keep the good tips coming fellas. This is a great thread!

bkzjimmy

this thread is 5 years old.

drcookie

Dang ! Someone brought the threat back to life !!!

Good catch bkzjimmy

RevinV12s

Yes, it's to prevent money laundering..

xJRocKx

The Edmunds article was a really great article, long but really good. Thanks for the link.

AcuraBuddy

Its Buisness in general >< Sighh what ever happened to buisness ethics....no one believes in honesty anymore? Are sales people nothing more then just lying mofos? hmm about the intercom thingy just speak another language or something unless they have such a diverse floor of sales personels then basically they've got that covered also.....yeah basically just do your research and be smart about things.

Bobbydoedoe

I use the internet and have them email the dealers and get a quote on the car. I usually get like 10 responses, and based on that, i pick the lowest one. Than i visit the dealer and pick it up. lol no bargaining no work

snorman

I frequently make cash deposits/withdrawals in excess of $5K and I have never had to fill out a form.

MikePA

The number is $10,000 or more, not 'in excess of $5K'.

fla-tls

Arguing with a 5 year old post - priceless.

mrchan625

iTrader: (3)

wow i never really noticed it but i guess its true