Sperry

iTrader: (1)

After successfully replacing my rear pads and rear left caliper,
I was gearing towards a brake fluid replacement.

My buddy at the garage was going to help me do it today. We have a trade going.
But being curious, I called the closest Acura Dealer, and their service department advised caution.

I received the 2000 TL 4/2010 @ 104K. Unknown service history,
but the trans fluid looked never to have been touched, The cabin air filter was original.

Now, at 166k, I'm finally around to looking at replacing the brake fluid.

The Dealer advised that with unknown brake fluid history, it was very risky to replace the fluid.
I could cause existing rust in the system to ????? and damage the seals in the master brake cylinder.

In short, they were advising leaving the fluid alone. What say ye?

MilwaukeeDave

iTrader: (3)

Please please never ever ever ever ever fucking call that place again. Search the threads on here. Brake fluid is hygroscopic. It pulls moisture from the air. Water in brake lines can cause overheating due to boiling, lost brake pressure, or worse. Change the brake fluid. It's suggested to do it yearly.

Sperry

iTrader: (1)

Got'cha. They said, "No" because of possible complications for which they wanted no responsibility.

You are saying that doing it and risking issues is better than not doing it and risking worse issues.

MilwaukeeDave

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure what issues will arise but I'd imagine anything that happened wouldn't be worse than brake failure from 11 year old fluid. Just use a baster or some sucker to clear the reservoir and add fresh fluid. Special TL brake bleed order is Driver Front, Passenger front, passenger rear, driver rear. Just keep flushing till the clean stuff is coming out. Give some time the guys more versed on this topic will chime in w more info.

Sperry

iTrader: (1)

Their consensus is change the frickin' fluid. I'm sure.

Just wanted to post Acura's stance, and see if there was any truth to it.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

there would be no issues changing it.
there will be issues if you dont change it.
like one poster said above brake fluid collects moisture.

Sperry

iTrader: (1)

I'm doing the 30k service on my 2008 Subaru right now. Everything the Stealership does.
For that car, they replace only what is in the master cylinder.

If one regularly replaces only what is in the master cylinder on their Acura,
does one still need to regularly do a complete flush and bleed of the system?

01tl4tl

A: the acura dealer MANAGER needs a call= to be aware of their advisors poor work!

You want the old fluid out BECAUSE it sucks up moisture, which ends up as rust in the calipers

How did you install a new caliper without bleeding/flushing the entire system?

do it right: follow our diy, and when sucking out the old stuff from master-
do NOT expose the holes where the brake lines attach on the side of res!!
that lets air in the line and you really have to work hard now!

remove most old with turkey baster, slowly pour in new DOT4 spec fluid (clean the strainer thing)
then begin the flush- do each caliper until nothing but clean new fluid comes thru--then several more times just to make sure its really cleaned out
expect 2-3-4 refills of the master cyl res per caliper- to do a decent job
buy 2 qts fluid ,,will take ~1.5 done right

B: the other cars book probably says to replace all fluid when you read it closely--
Are you following the book `severe service` area, or the dealers bs written list?
wanna know why most shops dont do brake flush with normal service- because techs are lazy, bleeder nipples sometimes are stuck or break, and they are lazy
a simpler 20 minute job is hard to find,,shops get an hour labor for it too!

the problem occurs because moisture gets in the master res- its compressed when brakes applied and moves down thru the system
brake fluid does not compress, and only moves a few inches or less with brake use.
It does not circulate like ps fluid other fluids--which dry the moisture thru heat in fluid during normal operation

Brake fluid doesnt get constant temp like that,,so its hygroscopic action result is severe

your brake pedal will feel firmer and the car will stop better afterwards
The fact a rear caliper went bad is a very good indication there is a fluid problem!

Sperry

iTrader: (1)

I just bled the one corner when I did the caliper last weekend.

OK, I think the manager was playing hocus pocus. They were probably quoting me $99
to replace the fluid in the master cylinder only. Not a complete flush. Rip-off stealership.
They realized their mistake in quoting the price, and decided they didn't want to deal with an older Acura.
Polished tools, white glove poofs, every one of'em. The only other reason they backpedaled may be that
sometimes, very rarely, there are issues. Maybe like why we do not power flush our transmissions?

Me and my buddy will do the complete fluid replacement next weekend. Got the quart, and we're scheduled.

Thanks again.

01tl4tl

$99 is a typical charge for a pressure machine brake fluid change
that gets out all the old stuff and is easy for them to do
9 bucks of fluid and 90 labor!

doing it `by hand` with a suction tool or a buddy pumping the pedal then you open the bleeder on caliper- takes a little longer,
what is your time worth? vs low man on the pole at shop who got stuck with the brake fluid job, who makes 10 bucks an hour,,which you are paying 100 for...

if you use a shop, go direct to a brake specialty place
they will make sure the abs is working right, and know how to treat the TL

01tl4tl

get another quart of fluid

~1.5 is what it takes for a really good job, and with your old fluid situation, divide the total ounces availble by 4,,leave some for the lines and you have your goal..oz pushed thru each caliper

I would also do as the book calls for after a brake line has been open- as in caliper change
Do 2 ABS active stops from 45 mph to full stop---accellerate to 45 and repeat
ABS must be active- pumping pedal under your foot
May require wet road or gravel, turning wheel quickly back and forth

IF the 2nd stop had a firmer pedal- there was air hidden in the abs controller
Rebleed the system LF RF RR LR and then its good.

thelastaspec

If you haven't had your brake fluid done before what do you ask for at the dealership/shop?

Change out all the fluid and bleed the lines?

And to confirm, brake flushing machines are safe?

01tl4tl

just ask for a normal `brake fluid flush`

`bleeding` is done when air is in the line,,and only goes as far as `no more air bubbles come out`

Flushing removes every bit of old and replaces it with brand new
No Prob with a machine, pressure at res or suction from caliper end
DOT4 spec fluid is pretty standard, and what we prefer
(old dot3 is now found labeled as dot3/4 meaning its dot4 spec and meets/exceeds earlier versions)

synthetic or plain brake fluid is ok..how do you drive?

NEVER use dot 5.0 it has silicones that eat our parts

ok for racers to use dot 5.1 the point 1 is ok, and super high dry and wet boiling point--great for track day use

Note: wet boiling temp- is when the fluid has sucked moisture from the atmosphere in hygroscopic action,,not to be confused with hydroscopic. which is the abilty to see underwater
happens every time the car is parked~

a brake specialty shop preferred over basic oil change shop!
just for knowing the TL special order of: LF RF RR LR
ask that question- if they dont know,,,, RUN from that shop
ok for service writer to be uneducated on details of repair....
but tech must know that! or else you are getting bent over/ at the wrong place for a TL repair

this really is a simple job--just critical to follow basic instructions,
can be done solo with a 25$ tool from harbor freight..and less than 10 dollars fluid
No way I would pay anyone 100 bucks for fluid and minor labor!!

heavy stuff that cant be done at home,,,then I will part with the coin for someone else to lose skin off their hands...

01tl4tl

diy also lets you examine all the brake pads for wear, by removing rims for access

not all rim sizes make you take tire off, with Enkei 18s on the 01 (stock 16s) I can reach right in and get the bleeder valve/nipple with tire on the car

the combination of tight suspension and upper/lower frame crossbars
= I can jack up one side of the car and it raises both wheels on that side!
throw jackstands under and go to work

Sperry

iTrader: (1)

1] I asked for brake fluid replacement. They said a hunnred bucks.
2] Never got that far. Didn't get the details, but I doubt Acura
would put my car on a lift and do a complete flush for a hundred.
They have their reasons for not wanting to work on a 12 year car.
3] 01tl4tl says so, and I've been following his posts going all the way back,
despite his grouchiness when he doesn't get his granola and yoghurt in the morning.

I am not going to wait for my buddy's garage next week.
I'll do it myself this week. Should be fun. LF, RF, RR, LR.

TWO QUESTIONS:

1] How long after opening a bottle of brake fluid should I use it or discard it? A month or two?
2] I keep hearing guys say to put a block of wood under the pedal so it is not fully depressed. True?

01tl4tl

Brake fluid should come from a NEW UNOPENED bottle- meaning sealed bottle top w/foil cover over the opening

Once open= its good for a MAX 6 months on the shelf, if capped tightly and little ambient moisture present---see hygroscopic

after that throw it away in the hazmat/used oil pickup

the 2x4 wood block under brake pedal ARM,, is for noobs buddy helping them do a 2 man pump and bleed
then you want to prevent the pedal from going more than its normal 3/4 of the way to the floor
this protects the all important seal inside the master cyl
Put the pedal to the floor and you definetly risk another 100 dollars in parts~

100 bucks at acura would be a normal pressure flush of the brake fluid

their concerns may have been bleeder nipples stuck, or they prefer easy big money jobs over ones like this

01tl4tl

despite his grouchiness when he doesn't get his granola and yoghurt in the morning.

Hey, you try being a chocoholic,, recently diagnosed with diabetes
Lets see how perky you are!!

thelastaspec

So check if shop is familiar with TL or just go to Acura.
Sounds like a plan.

For the record - I kinda baby the car, but Im thinking of going to a track day event that teaches you stuff.
This will be done though before I would go.

I also don't want my new rotors to warp.
Can re-bed your brakes (changed rotors and pads at same time) after driving with them for say 1000 miles?
Would that prevent warping?

01tl4tl

see tech section of www.heeltoeauto.com for article on what causes warping
usually its not letting the rotors cool after long hot use--or even repeated stop and go traffic with no cool off time will mess them up
Other causes are improper torque applied to lug nuts
good rotors are hard to warp

most cases of alleged rotor warp are just hot spots on the rotor with pad buildup,
thats cleaned up with a good rebedding

new brakes may need 500-1000 miles normal use, then do the bedding

Anytime you pick up a shudder,,ck pad wear- then do a full rebedding
if the wife has been light footing the brakes, I have to take it out for a good fun run at night,to clean the brakes up--rebed them

01tl4tl

track days for noobs: flush brake fluid with dot4 or 5.1 before the day,,and after you get home flush it again
will have taken a lot more heat than normal--replace and be safe

on the race car and `advanced levels` of track day: flush fluid between each on-track session,,run special track pads- change them back to street pads and flush fluid before leaving the track at end of event
There is plenty of help available to make it fast
help another driver do their car...

this is critical if you live in the flatlands and go to the mountains- say Reno-for track day, and have to come back down the hills,,at night,,
better to have the street pads and fresh fluid then~

track pads require more heat to operate correctly than you get in normal street use