RiCE-DaDDy

i hear 32whp but is that just for the Tl-P and less for the Type-s? or what?

dean078

i think youhave it mixed up.
i think that's what it is for the tl-s and less for the tl-p.

2K2 TLS

type s, see for yourself. cl-s is the same as tl-s as far as power.

http://www.comptechusa.com/images/dyno/2000CLSplot.pdf

bnaderi

2k2, is that graph with just headers?

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Yes, that graph is just headers and it's on the Type-S (CL or TL). They will give you around 30whp. Some have dynoed it at 28, some at as much as 34, but generally you'll see gains in the 30-32hp range (to the wheels). Keep in mind though that those gains occur at high RPMs, so down low you'll probably only see 8-10hp.....

bricot

aaahh, and it makes the acceleration oh so smooth...

Bfor3

iTrader: (2)

COME ON EVERYONE 30 WHP OMG, I REALLY DON'T BELIEVE THAT EVEN FROM COMPTECH YOU CAN'T EVEN GET 30 WHP FROM PUTTING A HEADER ON A 5.0 MUSTANG! MUCH LESS A 3.2 UNLESS THERE EXHAUST MANIFOLDS ARE SO DAMN RESTRICTIVE THAT THAT IS IT'S WEAK POINT! ANYONE HELP!!!

jbrown

It's not always about restriction, it has a lot to do with air pulses colliding at the collector (bad) or arriving in sync with each other (good) so that only one is trying to pass through the exhaust system at a time.

Bitium

Is 32hp at the wheels at 6k+ RPMs the rest from 3k to 5.5k RPMs is more like an average of 2.9hp. NOT 8-10 hp.

This chart is for the TL-P and not a Type S, but they put out very similar numbers in the whole RPM band except 6.5k+ RPM that you get the 32 hp. The Dyno numbers were also combined with the exhaust.

Bfor3

iTrader: (2)

hey Bitium, I really don't understand that graph and what is RICK CASE MOD??? help. Maybe I'm wrong but I still don't think header and exhaust and CAI and little mods like these can really make 32 WHP which equates to like 40-45 or so HP to the engine

y2ks2k

Don’t believe any of that. I want to see independent dyno's for proof on both the mods.

Road Rage

JBrown and all:

It is the "colliding" at the collector that IS the major restriction. The unequal lengths of the stock pipes cause trubulence or pulsing through the pipes. As the exhaust valve opens, this tubulence increases backpressure, reducing the efficient clearing of the combustion chamber, and reducing HP at the top end.

I am also skeptical of the 30 HP net rating, but there are significant power increases that made it worthwhile for me.

And they look so cool....

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I can't believe how long some of you guys have been around and you're still having trouble with this. I mean, I know towards the beginning of the year there must have been at least 4 individual dynos all showing gains of 28-34 hp at the wheels. On the CL board, there must be another 5 dynos. I mean, the newbies I can understand, but the veterans should be sick of seeing dynos for the headers by now. Why do you think they cost $1100 where a header for most other cars are under $400?? Part of it is that Comptech makes parts specifically for Hondas and Acuras, and part of it is b/c of the performance gains (some is also b/c it's a monopoly).......

JZ39

Let's correctly quote the Rick Case gains:
RPMs HP Torque
0-500 0 0
500-1000 0 0
1000-1500 0 0
1500-2000 0 0
2000-2500 0 0
2500-3000 0 0
3000-3500 0 0
3500-4000 0 0
4000-4500 0 0
4500-5000 0 0
5000-5500 0 0
5500-6000 0 0
6000-6500 0 0
6500-7000 0 0
7000+ 0 0




Let's get real people--until it is released, if ever, it makes 0, Zip, Zilch!

Bitium

the Rick Case MOD also called Mystery mod by members and actually called RES.

If you don't understand the chart then I can't help you. Maybe you should should ask your mom, she might understand better than you.

Bitium

LOL. What are we aliens. .

Indyjenks

Nannu.....nannu.....

tdoh

Why is it that the only thing that many people look at when it comes to headers is the maximum HP output? 30+ HP or so gain is a pretty impressive statistic but keep in mind that it's only valid at a certain RPM (e.g., 6K or so); it's not like you're getting 30+ HP throughout the entire power band, let alone even a narrow part of it.

Ask yourself this--would you buy a header that gave you a proven 30+ RWHP gain at 6K RPM but only 2-3 RWHP gain everywhere else in the RPM range (not that anyone would design such a poor-performance header)? Heck, I doubt anyone could actually feel a performance change with a less than 5 HP gain--except perhaps with a butt-dyno.

Tony

Bfor3

iTrader: (2)

If you don't understand the chart then I can't help you. Maybe you should should ask your mom, she might understand better than you.

HEY BITIUM, THE REASON I SAID THAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE CHART IS THAT I DOESN'T SHOW 32 WHP ANYWHERE!!! AS FOR MY MOM SHE COULDN'T UNDERSTAND IT EITHER. BUT YOU SHOULD REALLY FIX THAT THAT STUDDERING PROB. OF YOURS :p

jbrown

Bitium showed a chart for a TL-P, NOT a Type-S and he stated that above the chart when he said, "This chart is for the TL-P and not a Type S, but they put out very similar numbers in the whole RPM band except 6.5k+ RPM that you get the 32 hp. The Dyno numbers were also combined with the exhaust."
The reason he showed a TL-P is probably because he had results from both the Headers/Mufflers and the RES, but only for the TL-P, so he could show that the RES is a better value, but personally, I'm planning on doing BOTH of them.

You can see the results of the headers on a CL-S (same gains as TL-S) at: Dyno of Comptech Headers on CL-S

Bitium

Should I called you stupid or something Should should I :p

If you were to read what it said on top of the chart maybe you and your mom would understand better.

Bitium

See, some people do read. Thank you!!!!

y2ks2k

juniorbean:


Completely illogical. By your "price" estimate, the Comptec headers for the S2000 should produce 40hp since they cost $1400 yet they dyno 2 hp max.

Your correct, I've been around the "Honda" scene since 1991 (This is my 10th owned Honda) and I have seen millions of dynos put out by aftermarket engine part manufacturers that are completely falsified. This is something a non "newby" would know. It has been my educated opinion for years that most of the engine mods people put on their cars are functionally useless (proven on the track) and is done more for looks and sound. I’m tired of seeing blown Honda engines. You want power… get a turbo or a supercharger.. or buy a new car. I would suggest the new car since the life of the engine will be nice and long and under warrantee.

Todd Leavitt
Retired president of 5 years of CLUBSOL
20000+ members, 20+ local chapters around the world.

typeR

dude...stop being an idiot...we all know it's prety unheard of to gain 30hp from headers and most people you would tell would be like WTF ya right...but...there's alot of proof on this board i have a cl-S and comp headers my self...do a search ...you'll find atleats 5 independant dyno's that show atleast 28hp...so get a clue already

y2ks2k

Speak English... You should be able to speak proper english owning this car "dude".

jbrown

Chill out y2k, I have been involved with this forum for a few months now and have realized that English is not the first language of a few of the members, and while some others may not have a very good grasp of their native language of English, there is no reason to hold it against them. Maybe you and BFOR3 should, as well-educated men and obvious masters of the English language, at least be able to find a real reason to pick on someone other than a typo or free use of vernacular.
I don't feel that Comptech is likely to falsify information and risk their reputation for building excellent quality products. I believe that the results of the dynos of the numerous people using the headers are factual and I plan on buying a set myself. Surely you are aware that the Comptech exhaust for your car is a waste of money for anything other than aural and visual appeal, they even document it on their site at: Comptech S2000 exhaust dyno. I don't think Comptech would publish such unimpressive numbers if they were in the business of falsifying test results.
So I say to everyone, let the buyer beware, and if you get ripped off by some fly-by-night company selling "too good to be true" car parts, then shame on you. Go with someone you can trust, but that's why we're all here, let's help each other and share our experiences and keep the flames to a minimum, dude.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Wow, you're just making friends left and right on here.... don't get your panties in a bunch. I wasn't speaking in absolutes. Look in general at header prices.. flip though any mag... Civic headers, Integra headers, etc... all run around $400 and produce less then 15hp. The main reason Comptech's are so expensive if b/c they have a monopoly on the TL-S and CL-S. This, and the fact they are pretty much exclusive to Honda and Acura. I have seen at least 10 dynos, all with baselines from stock showing anywhere from 28-34whp by just adding the headers. Well, now that I just re-typed my original post, I'll stop, my fingers are tired....

typeR

dude(that means, hey you)...stop being an idiot(which means,try listening to what people are telling you)...we all know IT'S pretty much unheard of to gain 30 hp from headers,and if you were to tell others this they would not believe you...if you were to do a search ,you would find atleast 5 other independant dyno's by members who have headers ,like myself...so in closing, if you have trouble with understanding this time ?I'll make it simple, do not question that which you do not know. DUDE

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

hahahaha... LMAO!!

That was funny typeR!!

totallymondotl

I've seen this alot around sportbikes. Micron came out with a header and slip on (full exhaust) for the Honda CBR929 last spring claimed something like 16 horsepower.....real world more like 8-9. I purchased a Akrapovic and got @12 but both cost around $1000...err if you figure out that the bike cost 10k and the pipe was 1k...umm YOh, that's a pile. But hey it goes better and sounds...umm...erectile .... And really that's most of it.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Yeah but the difference is that the real world perfomance is matching their claims......

city001

If only the price was around 500-700..then i'll consider on getting this mod..

city

Bfor3

iTrader: (2)

THANK YOU JBROWN YOU MAKE A LOT OF SENSE AND YOUR POSTS HELP A LOT. WELL IF THERE'S PROOF W/ ALL THOSE DYNOS THAN THATS PROOF ENOUGH! AGAIN THANK YOU AND WE ARE HERE TO HELP EVERYONE OUT W/ TRYING NOT TO GET RIPPED OFF, BUT I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT MY MOM HAS TO DO W/ ANYTHING

Davids-TLS

based on JuniorBean's posting:

Look in general at header prices.. flip though any mag... Civic headers, Integra headers, etc... all run around $400 and produce less then 15hp.


If a Honda Civic EX with a stock of 127 hp gains about 15 hp, that equals to an 11.8% gain in overall horsepower. Now if you apply this 11.8% gain for the TL-S, then you should gain about 30.7 hp, no? which is about within the overall average dynoed! What do you guys think?

jbrown

I HATE it when HP gains are stated as a %, I mean, yeah the Comptech header adds around 32 whp, but that's only at one point in the rpm band. Lots of mods add 3-5 HP here and there, but 10 mods at 3-5 HP DOES NOT add 30-50 HP, it is spread out all over the rev range and you end up with only 10-15 MAX hp gained across the entire range, not dramatic considering 10 mods could easily cost a total of $3-5K! Putting a percentage on a power gain alludes to the possibility of it being 10% across the entire rev range, and the only things that contribute like that are typically superchargers and turbos (and apparently this RES thing is supposedly good for a few % fairly consistently across the entire rpm band, but it ain't shipping yet).

The Comptech header actually adds 16% (32 whp) at it's peak power gain point, where the car makes 199 whp stock at 6,600 rpm, but only adds about 8-10% (17-22 whp) at the car's stock peak output of 208 whp from 6,000-6,200 rpm. Stuff like headers and cams can be very peaky in terms of gains, and referring to their gains as a percentage can be very misleading.

EricL

Scaling has its benefits and dangers...

The stock exhaust on the CLS (I have it sitting up the street) is a real piece of crud. Let me count the ways (the manifold and header are 6-2-1 headers):

1. Each bank of 3 cylinders is forced to have the "outer" cylinder’s exhaust gas make a hard right turn -- try running at full sprint speed and let me know if you can make a left turn on a dime. There is a great deal of energy lost just there.

2. Not only do each bank of 3-cylinders have terrible gas flow, but the length where the cylinders do combine is less than optimal and the 90-degree turn negates any exhaust gas scavenging.

3. The A-pipe (where the two banks of 3 combine) is designed by someone looking to throtle down power. The person who did this likes bananas in tailpipes! The exhaust flow looks like the gases are going for a head-on impact!

So, unlike the 4-cylinder headers you mentioned that are not that bad, the CLS has a "header" system that is really bad (sorry, Acura).

I am amazed that the headers don't actually make MORE power than they do. AS the graph shown above (by Mike) shows, the gain at the front wheels is 30HP. This means the gain at the crank is almost 40 HP.

So, the 30 HP you got is very close, but scaling is dangerous -- some cast iron headers are very well designed (like the old BMW 2002 tii manifold)...

EricL

Well, at least Comptech posts the gains on the CL/CLS/TLS etc in tabular and graphic form.

It is unfortunate that some folks don't understand the idea of the area under a curve equating to increased power ACROSS the power band... However, without showing the shift points (with arrows for example), someone has to figure out where the "usable" power band is.

1) At least the design doesn't loose power at low-speed in a concession for top-speed gain (as a lot of headers do).

2) If you do look at the graph above, you will see a nice FAT gain in torque from 3K up. The main HP gains are from 5K up.

3) If you don't show the shift points, you don't know what you're getting and with the fixed (non-alterable) gearing on "our" cars, it is the torque that is producing the acceleration = force

Look at most "old style" (non-VTEC) cams, and you will see no torque down low and the torque and HP peaks moved-up.

So, area under the curve is nice *and* why not let the dyno picture do the talking.

BTW -- if they ever put a CVT tranny in our cars, the HP and torque peaks will be of the greatest important (not the area under the curve).