Can a dealer actually do this??
06-11-2003, 03:45 PM
#1
is the Mighty Favog
Thread Starter
Can a dealer actually do this??
I took my car in fro some warranty work last week. When I went to the cashier to get the invoice and my keys there was a another page attached to the papers. It was a notice of an end-of-month drawing to win either a free detail service or $100 off my next bill IF I rated them as "excellent".
Now I take this to be that if they don't give me excellent service I am also not entitled to an entry in the drawing. This seems pretty illegal to me but I'll check it out when I get back to work next week. I wrote letters to the Service Manager and the Service Director. I also told them that the letter I wrote them will be included with my return of the survey I get from Honda although I doubt I'll get one because the Service Dept. put the wrong address for my house on my invoice.
Now I take this to be that if they don't give me excellent service I am also not entitled to an entry in the drawing. This seems pretty illegal to me but I'll check it out when I get back to work next week. I wrote letters to the Service Manager and the Service Director. I also told them that the letter I wrote them will be included with my return of the survey I get from Honda although I doubt I'll get one because the Service Dept. put the wrong address for my house on my invoice.
06-11-2003, 04:23 PM
#2
Team Owner
Dude, that dealer is whacked. I would be pissed too. And I'll be sending off some nasty letters as well.
06-11-2003, 06:05 PM
#5
Senior Moderator
My dealer just sends a letter in the mail prior to my receiving an evaluation, begging for an "excellent" in everything. I complained about that as it insults my intelligence to be told to do something like this. My dealer actually does give excellent service, but I should be the one to say it "off the cuff".
Now that I've read this, I see I really had nothing to complain about--bribing your customers to say "excellent", while not illegal, just strikes me as downright slimy.
Now that I've read this, I see I really had nothing to complain about--bribing your customers to say "excellent", while not illegal, just strikes me as downright slimy.
06-11-2003, 08:53 PM
#6
yeah i'm bored.
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well, two days after i got my car i got a ups package...
a congratulations balloon and box of cookies from the dealer. nice touch. while i was filling out the final paperwork, the salesman must have mentioned 10 times "to give me excellent marks". desperte bastards.
if i were you, i'd forward that letter on to acura corporate. someone there would be interested...
a congratulations balloon and box of cookies from the dealer. nice touch. while i was filling out the final paperwork, the salesman must have mentioned 10 times "to give me excellent marks". desperte bastards.
if i were you, i'd forward that letter on to acura corporate. someone there would be interested...
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06-12-2003, 05:14 AM
#11
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Originally posted by HA 65MPH
Take the $100 bucks off..
Take the $100 bucks off..
06-12-2003, 10:39 PM
#12
is the Mighty Favog
Thread Starter
Here's a copy of the letter I sent the dealer if anyone's interested:
June 11, 2003
Mr. Bob Braudigam
Service Manager
Columbia Acura
10981 Montgomery Road
Cincinnati, Ohio 45249
Service performed on: June 5, 2003
Car serviced: 2003 Acura TL Type-S
Serial number: 19UUA56893A066796
This report is in response to an inquiry made to me as to my satisfaction of a recent service call on my 2003 Acura TL Type-S.
Problems:
1. After replacing shifter gate bezel there are three new pry marks forward of bezel near diagnostic port door (?)
2. After I complained about pry marks around the moon roof switch after it was replaced, Mike (Hardert) told me it’s more trouble that it’s worth to replace the instrument gauge bezel and that the marks are from the manufacturing process and are not pry marks. I thought about this later and it I got a feeling that he was implying that I was being “too picky” (my words, not his). In either case the problem should have been fixed. Someone even made a special phone call to me asking what color was my dash and that the parts department had that part (instrument cluster bezel) in stock. I have pictures that I found on the Internet that are very close up in that same area and the marks are definitely not there. If Mike is correct this is defect in materials and workmanship from the factory and should have been fixed anyway.
3. Splatter marks from a compound used to polish out dings in shifter gate bezel appeared to be only covered up with some sort of liquid protectant and not removed as requested.
4. That same liquid protectant that the detail shop used, was dripped/speared on the front door sills and, oddly enough, under the front nose of the car. How it got under the nose of the car I don’t know. I removed all the protectant I found with the same 3M General Adhesive Remover the detail shop uses.
5. It took about a week just to get the replacement shifter gate bezel to the dealer. This may well have been the fault of UPS but one should have been ordered the very next business day and not waste a full day just to have someone look at it and say “Yup, needs a new part.” The fact that a new part was needed had already been established when I brought the car in arrange for an appointment to have it serviced. The parts should have been at the dealer waiting to be installed when the car was dropped off. This was a complete waste of time.
6. While it is nice that a rental car is supplied to me during a warranted service call I do have two notes to make:
a. Both times when I came (after service dept. hours) to drop off my car and pick up the loaner. The paperwork wasn’t where it was supposed to be (the salesman couldn’t find with the other tickets) and it seamed that the salesman had a hard time obtaining keys to the loaner cars.
b. Both times I was given a loaner car the car itself, I felt, was embarrassing. Both times it was a 1999 Integra four door (one white and one blue). It drove terribly. I heard excessive engine noise and tire noise. This isn’t to mention the hard jerk from first to second gear (auto transmission). I have read repeatedly on an Acura TL based forum web sight (www.acura-tl.com) of loaners being of CL, TL and RSX ilk. Its very hard to drive a four year old sub compact like the Integra with 50k miles as a loaner after just spending over $30k for a new car the month before that’s now in the shop for warranty service.
7. Attached to the service invoice the cashier gave me (she was a delightful woman) I found a sheet stating that there will be a survey coming to my house asking me to rate my experience this time. At the bottom of the sheet it offers an entry into a drawing at the end of each month if I rate my experience as “Excellent”. Is this even legal? Does Honda even know this is going on, trying to sway the opinion of the customer by making such an offer? Are only people that receive “Excellent” service deserving of an entry into the drawing?
8. The invoice I received after the service was done had my address as being:
Thomas Blasing
4141 Radar Rd.
Cincinnati, Ohio 45201
In actuality it is:
Thomas Blasing
4226 Zagar Drive
Cincinnati, Ohio 45245
I’m really hoping this is not an implication that I installed a radar detector (hard wired) caused the moon roof switch to fail (Please refer to the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act and SEMA- Specialty Equipment Manufacturers Association). Especially when I tapped the power leading feeding the windshield wipers and not the moon roof. The wipers are on a 30ampere fuse while the radar detector only draws 465 milliamps at full alarm. I understand electrical schematics and this is well within serviceable limits. Mike then said it was because of the location of where I had the excess cable for the detector located (left side of the fuse box at the base of the A-pillar). I don’t understand how a switch that is approximately seven to eight inches to the right of the fuse box can be affected by cable two inches to left of the fuse box. Especially when it was a physical defect of the switch and not an electrical one caused at the point of the excess cable being stored. I would like a very detailed description of this phenomenon so that I may understand more fully. Although, at this point, I’m not much concerned with “finger pointing”.
I will retain a copy of this report and attach it to the survey I receive from Honda.
Thank you for your concern,
Thomas M. Blasing
cc: Mr. Jim Peters,
Service Director
June 11, 2003
Mr. Bob Braudigam
Service Manager
Columbia Acura
10981 Montgomery Road
Cincinnati, Ohio 45249
Service performed on: June 5, 2003
Car serviced: 2003 Acura TL Type-S
Serial number: 19UUA56893A066796
This report is in response to an inquiry made to me as to my satisfaction of a recent service call on my 2003 Acura TL Type-S.
Problems:
1. After replacing shifter gate bezel there are three new pry marks forward of bezel near diagnostic port door (?)
2. After I complained about pry marks around the moon roof switch after it was replaced, Mike (Hardert) told me it’s more trouble that it’s worth to replace the instrument gauge bezel and that the marks are from the manufacturing process and are not pry marks. I thought about this later and it I got a feeling that he was implying that I was being “too picky” (my words, not his). In either case the problem should have been fixed. Someone even made a special phone call to me asking what color was my dash and that the parts department had that part (instrument cluster bezel) in stock. I have pictures that I found on the Internet that are very close up in that same area and the marks are definitely not there. If Mike is correct this is defect in materials and workmanship from the factory and should have been fixed anyway.
3. Splatter marks from a compound used to polish out dings in shifter gate bezel appeared to be only covered up with some sort of liquid protectant and not removed as requested.
4. That same liquid protectant that the detail shop used, was dripped/speared on the front door sills and, oddly enough, under the front nose of the car. How it got under the nose of the car I don’t know. I removed all the protectant I found with the same 3M General Adhesive Remover the detail shop uses.
5. It took about a week just to get the replacement shifter gate bezel to the dealer. This may well have been the fault of UPS but one should have been ordered the very next business day and not waste a full day just to have someone look at it and say “Yup, needs a new part.” The fact that a new part was needed had already been established when I brought the car in arrange for an appointment to have it serviced. The parts should have been at the dealer waiting to be installed when the car was dropped off. This was a complete waste of time.
6. While it is nice that a rental car is supplied to me during a warranted service call I do have two notes to make:
a. Both times when I came (after service dept. hours) to drop off my car and pick up the loaner. The paperwork wasn’t where it was supposed to be (the salesman couldn’t find with the other tickets) and it seamed that the salesman had a hard time obtaining keys to the loaner cars.
b. Both times I was given a loaner car the car itself, I felt, was embarrassing. Both times it was a 1999 Integra four door (one white and one blue). It drove terribly. I heard excessive engine noise and tire noise. This isn’t to mention the hard jerk from first to second gear (auto transmission). I have read repeatedly on an Acura TL based forum web sight (www.acura-tl.com) of loaners being of CL, TL and RSX ilk. Its very hard to drive a four year old sub compact like the Integra with 50k miles as a loaner after just spending over $30k for a new car the month before that’s now in the shop for warranty service.
7. Attached to the service invoice the cashier gave me (she was a delightful woman) I found a sheet stating that there will be a survey coming to my house asking me to rate my experience this time. At the bottom of the sheet it offers an entry into a drawing at the end of each month if I rate my experience as “Excellent”. Is this even legal? Does Honda even know this is going on, trying to sway the opinion of the customer by making such an offer? Are only people that receive “Excellent” service deserving of an entry into the drawing?
8. The invoice I received after the service was done had my address as being:
Thomas Blasing
4141 Radar Rd.
Cincinnati, Ohio 45201
In actuality it is:
Thomas Blasing
4226 Zagar Drive
Cincinnati, Ohio 45245
I’m really hoping this is not an implication that I installed a radar detector (hard wired) caused the moon roof switch to fail (Please refer to the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act and SEMA- Specialty Equipment Manufacturers Association). Especially when I tapped the power leading feeding the windshield wipers and not the moon roof. The wipers are on a 30ampere fuse while the radar detector only draws 465 milliamps at full alarm. I understand electrical schematics and this is well within serviceable limits. Mike then said it was because of the location of where I had the excess cable for the detector located (left side of the fuse box at the base of the A-pillar). I don’t understand how a switch that is approximately seven to eight inches to the right of the fuse box can be affected by cable two inches to left of the fuse box. Especially when it was a physical defect of the switch and not an electrical one caused at the point of the excess cable being stored. I would like a very detailed description of this phenomenon so that I may understand more fully. Although, at this point, I’m not much concerned with “finger pointing”.
I will retain a copy of this report and attach it to the survey I receive from Honda.
Thank you for your concern,
Thomas M. Blasing
cc: Mr. Jim Peters,
Service Director
06-12-2003, 11:25 PM
#13
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My dealer leaves phone messages and has sent out postcards.... basically saying they're assuming an excellent rating unless they hear from you.
Called to tell them that I wasn't giving them an excellent rating for getting both front seats (tan leather) full of black grease and ruining a CD.
They put me on a list for a free oil change. They just weren't going to let me get a non-excellent remark in.
It wasn't a huge deal and I gave in, but it's not fair. They're not reporting problems when they can get away with it.
One acura guy told me allocation of cars depended on excellent ratings.
Called to tell them that I wasn't giving them an excellent rating for getting both front seats (tan leather) full of black grease and ruining a CD.
They put me on a list for a free oil change. They just weren't going to let me get a non-excellent remark in.
It wasn't a huge deal and I gave in, but it's not fair. They're not reporting problems when they can get away with it.
One acura guy told me allocation of cars depended on excellent ratings.
06-13-2003, 09:29 AM
#14
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This rating thing is a JOKE, just like Pohanka Acura, the dealer I got my TL from. I was also asked many times to give an "excellent" rating after the deal was written. But because the sales and management stated in writing one thing and then did another, working the deal, they get a "0" rating as well as some much needed attention from the BBB, VA State Attorney General and a few more agencies in Virginia.
06-13-2003, 04:49 PM
#15
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so you rather your dealer go out of business and you have to go to the next closest dealership with is maybe 2x as far..and u dun get discount???
if they do a SHIET job on your car or give you SHIET as s service then speak to the service manager..and give you something in return....or ask for more discount...
its like them giving you $100 and you just rip it up in front of them...?
if they do a SHIET job on your car or give you SHIET as s service then speak to the service manager..and give you something in return....or ask for more discount...
its like them giving you $100 and you just rip it up in front of them...?
06-13-2003, 07:26 PM
#17
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Just my .02, but the bottom line with me is this, if a business wants an excellent rating, they need to EARN it. If they give me a couple of bucks to just SAY they're good, what stops them from screwing over the next guy?
Now, they wouldn't do that would they? Cause they have an excellent rating. Get it.
Now, they wouldn't do that would they? Cause they have an excellent rating. Get it.
06-13-2003, 08:04 PM
#18
Guys,
Most of you don’t know what that survey does on the dealer end.
A lot of service departments have promotions for that because of how greatly those surveys affect their internal workings. For instance: You get your survey. You mark EVERYTHING as EXCELENT except for ONE thing. Instantly, the dealer fails the survey. Dealer surveys are a "1" or a "0" point. EVERYTHING excellent means a "1". anything below that, even one "very good" is a "0". At the end of the period, the points that the service department has accumulated are tallied up and that’s the service center score. Its because of this, that the service department pushes SO HARD to tell you to mark EVERYTHING excellent.
Promotions to get you to do that are perfectly legal in the dealer world, primarily because if your service experience USUALLY goes one of 2 ways: either your very happy, which you should mark everything "excellent", not "very good", or your experience sucked so bad your going to let them know no matter what they offer you.
The surveys go right to the corporate offices. They see every one of them, and read every note you place on there.
ALSO!!! VERY IMPORTANT!!!
If you mark "very good" on your survey, even with the best intentions, they still fail, but they understand that marking "excellent' on everything is a little out there.
HOWEVER, at my dealer for instance, if you really REALLY burn them on the survey, you get a phone call REAL DAMN QUICK
The service departments take negative surveys VERY PERSONALLY!!!!! so if you burn them, they know who you are the next time you go in. So if you see some cockiness, that’s probably why.
They expect you to attempt to resolve your problems with the dealer through the manager, not just take it in the ass till you get the survey.
I guess if your one of those people that just doesn’t care, and will just yell and scream at people till you get your way, then your OK, and you can burn them if u want. But if you like having a pleasurable experience and you consider your service department your "third arm", then don’t forget to be nice!!!!
::pant pant pant::
-ME!!!
Most of you don’t know what that survey does on the dealer end.
A lot of service departments have promotions for that because of how greatly those surveys affect their internal workings. For instance: You get your survey. You mark EVERYTHING as EXCELENT except for ONE thing. Instantly, the dealer fails the survey. Dealer surveys are a "1" or a "0" point. EVERYTHING excellent means a "1". anything below that, even one "very good" is a "0". At the end of the period, the points that the service department has accumulated are tallied up and that’s the service center score. Its because of this, that the service department pushes SO HARD to tell you to mark EVERYTHING excellent.
Promotions to get you to do that are perfectly legal in the dealer world, primarily because if your service experience USUALLY goes one of 2 ways: either your very happy, which you should mark everything "excellent", not "very good", or your experience sucked so bad your going to let them know no matter what they offer you.
The surveys go right to the corporate offices. They see every one of them, and read every note you place on there.
ALSO!!! VERY IMPORTANT!!!
If you mark "very good" on your survey, even with the best intentions, they still fail, but they understand that marking "excellent' on everything is a little out there.
HOWEVER, at my dealer for instance, if you really REALLY burn them on the survey, you get a phone call REAL DAMN QUICK
The service departments take negative surveys VERY PERSONALLY!!!!! so if you burn them, they know who you are the next time you go in. So if you see some cockiness, that’s probably why.
They expect you to attempt to resolve your problems with the dealer through the manager, not just take it in the ass till you get the survey.
I guess if your one of those people that just doesn’t care, and will just yell and scream at people till you get your way, then your OK, and you can burn them if u want. But if you like having a pleasurable experience and you consider your service department your "third arm", then don’t forget to be nice!!!!
::pant pant pant::
-ME!!!
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