Brake grease question and shaving rear EBC pads?
01-25-2005, 06:50 PM
#1
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Brake grease question and shaving rear EBC pads?
Hey guys,
Yeah I did my searching... tons of it.
I bought a pair of rear EBC greenstuff but haven't gone around to install it yet. Found on this thread (https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/lexus-luxury-redifined-105491/) that part of the pad has to be shaved in order for it to fit correctly... I checked out the pads and think it might be this little thing... is it?
If so do I simply use sand paper to rid of it?
Also, I have read from DIY guides that i will need some sort of brake pad grease/lubricant to prevent squeaking and other noises. Since the EBC's are aftermarket they did not come with any grease so I went to the Acura dealer and asked about the Molykote grease that a lot of people seem to use. The guy said it was frigging $28.99 for a little squeeze bottle! I said no way and went to my local auto stores to see if there's anything similar for less $.
Sure enough, I found these two products from CRC that might be good replacement. The problem is I don't know which is better.
Here's a pic of both:
The description of the RED bottle says as follows, "CRC Disc Brake Quiet is a specially formulated to dampen the vibrations that cause disc brake noise. It forms a water-resistant, high temperate film that will absorb noise and quiet disc braking. DIRECTIONS: For best results, all steel backing plates should be clean before applying CRC Disc Brake Quiet. (1) Apply liberally to the steel back of each outboard pad. Spread evenly over entire surface. Disc Brake Quiet should not be applied to brake lining. (2) Apply one applicator-width strip to the steel back of each inboard pad."
And on the BLACK bottle, "A specially formulated synthetic grease containing molybdenum disulfide, graphite, and TELFON. Keeps critical sliding parts in brake calipers free for optimum braking efficieny. Helps to prevent caliper blinding, sticking, vibration and squeal, and provide for even pad wear. Prevents rust and corrosion on brake parts to assure extended safe performance. Extremely high temperature features make certain this lubricant will not melt or run off caliper assemblies, metal backing plates of the disk brake pads, self-adjusters and drum brake systems. DIRECTIONS: When rebuilding, assembling, or installing disc brakes, thoroughly clean or replace all bolts, bushings, holes, pins, inserts and anchors. Lubricate all parts with a light coat of this grease including bolts which mount caliper to vehicle. Apply grease to caliper components with a small brush. Excellent for use on metal backing plates of pads, hardware of drum systems and parking brake cables."
They seem to be pretty much alike in their use. If anyone knows which is better... please help out, I really appreciate it!
One last thing, I've got the torque specs for each part of the brake assembly... is there anything else I need to do this install? Thanks guys...
Yeah I did my searching... tons of it.
I bought a pair of rear EBC greenstuff but haven't gone around to install it yet. Found on this thread (https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/lexus-luxury-redifined-105491/) that part of the pad has to be shaved in order for it to fit correctly... I checked out the pads and think it might be this little thing... is it?
If so do I simply use sand paper to rid of it?
Also, I have read from DIY guides that i will need some sort of brake pad grease/lubricant to prevent squeaking and other noises. Since the EBC's are aftermarket they did not come with any grease so I went to the Acura dealer and asked about the Molykote grease that a lot of people seem to use. The guy said it was frigging $28.99 for a little squeeze bottle! I said no way and went to my local auto stores to see if there's anything similar for less $.
Sure enough, I found these two products from CRC that might be good replacement. The problem is I don't know which is better.
Here's a pic of both:
The description of the RED bottle says as follows, "CRC Disc Brake Quiet is a specially formulated to dampen the vibrations that cause disc brake noise. It forms a water-resistant, high temperate film that will absorb noise and quiet disc braking. DIRECTIONS: For best results, all steel backing plates should be clean before applying CRC Disc Brake Quiet. (1) Apply liberally to the steel back of each outboard pad. Spread evenly over entire surface. Disc Brake Quiet should not be applied to brake lining. (2) Apply one applicator-width strip to the steel back of each inboard pad."
And on the BLACK bottle, "A specially formulated synthetic grease containing molybdenum disulfide, graphite, and TELFON. Keeps critical sliding parts in brake calipers free for optimum braking efficieny. Helps to prevent caliper blinding, sticking, vibration and squeal, and provide for even pad wear. Prevents rust and corrosion on brake parts to assure extended safe performance. Extremely high temperature features make certain this lubricant will not melt or run off caliper assemblies, metal backing plates of the disk brake pads, self-adjusters and drum brake systems. DIRECTIONS: When rebuilding, assembling, or installing disc brakes, thoroughly clean or replace all bolts, bushings, holes, pins, inserts and anchors. Lubricate all parts with a light coat of this grease including bolts which mount caliper to vehicle. Apply grease to caliper components with a small brush. Excellent for use on metal backing plates of pads, hardware of drum systems and parking brake cables."
They seem to be pretty much alike in their use. If anyone knows which is better... please help out, I really appreciate it!
One last thing, I've got the torque specs for each part of the brake assembly... is there anything else I need to do this install? Thanks guys...
01-25-2005, 09:01 PM
#2
Senior Moderator
1 goes on the back side of the brake pad to hlp eliminate squeeks. the other (black bottle) goes on the caliper componontsto help lube the parts that slide. id stick with the red bottle the black really isnt needed
01-25-2005, 09:24 PM
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i got the front EBC's delivered today and they dont look like that. each one has a black piece of metal on the back of each pad. what part number are the pads? mine are DP21610.
01-25-2005, 09:25 PM
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I'm yet to take my brakes apart so I don't know the specifics of how the TL's brakes work, but I would definately use the black tub (caliper grease) to grease the pins the caliper slides on and the little slots the pads slide into on the caliper brackets. A properly lubed brake system will squeak much less and last a lot longer. Just be sure not to get any of the grease on the rotor or on the friction surface of the pad.
01-25-2005, 10:01 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
1 goes on the back side of the brake pad to hlp eliminate squeeks. the other (black bottle) goes on the caliper componontsto help lube the parts that slide. id stick with the red bottle the black really isnt needed
thanku for your input sir. i'd like to hear more from other people though.btw you went back with your old avatar eh!
Originally Posted by car_lost
i got the front EBC's delivered today and they dont look like that. each one has a black piece of metal on the back of each pad. what part number are the pads? mine are DP21610.
i ordered from tire rack before they completely sold out.
Well the thing is, these are rear's so it might be different from the part # of front pads.
Originally Posted by blackonblack02
I'm yet to take my brakes apart so I don't know the specifics of how the TL's brakes work, but I would definately use the black tub (caliper grease) to grease the pins the caliper slides on and the little slots the pads slide into on the caliper brackets. A properly lubed brake system will squeak much less and last a lot longer. Just be sure not to get any of the grease on the rotor or on the friction surface of the pad.
01-25-2005, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by subtledreamer
strange... mine's are DP21193. Says it's for Prelude (97+) rear.
i ordered from tire rack before they completely sold out.
Well the thing is, these are rear's so it might be different from the part # of front pads.
i ordered from tire rack before they completely sold out.
Well the thing is, these are rear's so it might be different from the part # of front pads.
01-25-2005, 10:27 PM
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When I changed mine, I didnt put all the shims back on so I didnt have to trim/shave anything.Only put one or two back on instead of 3(I think) that there was. Not sure if this was the correct thing to do, but I havent had any problem so far. Have at least 3000+ miles on pads and rotors.
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01-26-2005, 08:25 AM
#8
lover and fighter
Originally Posted by cma2180
When I changed mine, I didnt put all the shims back on so I didnt have to trim/shave anything.Only put one or two back on instead of 3(I think) that there was. Not sure if this was the correct thing to do, but I havent had any problem so far. Have at least 3000+ miles on pads and rotors.
01-26-2005, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
1 goes on the back side of the brake pad to hlp eliminate squeeks. the other (black bottle) goes on the caliper componontsto help lube the parts that slide. id stick with the red bottle the black really isnt needed
01-26-2005, 01:07 PM
#11
Senior Moderator
unless your calipers dont float (slide) good on the pins the black stuff isnt needed. it wont eliminate squeeks. only the red will do that
01-26-2005, 11:07 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by car_lost
oh ok, i was starting to get worried. did you get the fronts?
Originally Posted by cma2180
When I changed mine, I didnt put all the shims back on so I didnt have to trim/shave anything.Only put one or two back on instead of 3(I think) that there was. Not sure if this was the correct thing to do, but I havent had any problem so far. Have at least 3000+ miles on pads and rotors.
Originally Posted by r10apple
I didn't use all the shims either when I put them on a while back...
What is their purpose anyway?
Originally Posted by car_lost
so then u didnt have to shave that little nipple?
Originally Posted by 69ssrscam
I'm with Kris on this one. The black really isn't needed. Most squeeking and brake noise is from the shims on the back of the pads. The red soluton should fix that issue. The pads should slide fine in the caliper without the black stuff.
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
unless your calipers dont float (slide) good on the pins the black stuff isnt needed. it wont eliminate squeeks. only the red will do that
01-27-2005, 08:08 AM
#13
lover and fighter
Originally Posted by car_lost
so then u didnt have to shave that little nipple?
01-27-2005, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by subtledreamer
nah i didn't order the fronts. by the time i placed the order tire rack was already out of them and since mine were replaced just 6k miles ago, they don't need a replacement just yet. problem is when i do, i'll need to fish out more $ for fronts elsewhere...
as for the shim and shaving the "nipple" i have no idea. as you can see, some people didnt shave the "nipple" they just didnt use the shims... but is that safe? what do the shims do? then other people put all the shims, but they had to shave the nipple. im just trying to figure out whats the best way to go about it,
01-27-2005, 01:21 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by car_lost
i got the front pads from www.ajusa.com took about a week and half to get here. im gonna wait for the rotora group buy for the rear rotors and then i'll buy the rear pads as well.
as for the shim and shaving the "nipple" i have no idea. as you can see, some people didnt shave the "nipple" they just didnt use the shims... but is that safe? what do the shims do? then other people put all the shims, but they had to shave the nipple. im just trying to figure out whats the best way to go about it,
01-29-2005, 01:36 AM
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I got the same pads for the rear of my 99TL. And yes, mine had the nipples on them. Just out of curiosity, I installed them to see the fit. I found out, without shaving them off, the piston does not fit flush against the brake pad, which is not a good thing. Also, all the shims should not fit unless you shave the nipples. As for the shims, I have no idea, but I would assume they are there to dissipate/spread the force of the piston over a larger surface area, thus not cracking or splitting the pad in half. Try and find a friend with a die grinder or cutoff tool, it only takes 30 seconds or so per pad. Let us know how they work out.
01-30-2005, 03:47 PM
#17
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I tried sanding those nipples off with a 60-grit sand paper. Only got the paint off.
Then I used a saw to attempt to cut them off. Nope. Got about 40% way in and my hands were tired already.
So I just installed the pads without the shims since someone has done it with 3k+ miles on them and no problems yet. Taking a little chance here.
I did this 2 days ago and just got a chance to post some pics... here you go:
wheel off, caliper unbolted and swung up. stock brake pads taken off.
EBC Greenstuff on the left and stocks on the right
EBC's installed without shim. i added the red paste as people recommended... actually i dont know if they even help since im not using the shims.
everything back together.
well i've driven about 100 miles on them so they are through with the Initial break-in. been engine braking more to avoid stomping on the brakes too much and will do some for the next few hundreds miles since I remember reading from somewhere that it takes about 800 miles for the pads to fully break-in.
So far so good. The difference I've felt so far is that the travel when i step on the brake pedal is less than before... but that's obvious because the stock pads only had 20% left on them haha.
If anything i shall update you guys. thanks for the help again.
Then I used a saw to attempt to cut them off. Nope. Got about 40% way in and my hands were tired already.
So I just installed the pads without the shims since someone has done it with 3k+ miles on them and no problems yet. Taking a little chance here.
I did this 2 days ago and just got a chance to post some pics... here you go:
wheel off, caliper unbolted and swung up. stock brake pads taken off.
EBC Greenstuff on the left and stocks on the right
EBC's installed without shim. i added the red paste as people recommended... actually i dont know if they even help since im not using the shims.
everything back together.
well i've driven about 100 miles on them so they are through with the Initial break-in. been engine braking more to avoid stomping on the brakes too much and will do some for the next few hundreds miles since I remember reading from somewhere that it takes about 800 miles for the pads to fully break-in.
So far so good. The difference I've felt so far is that the travel when i step on the brake pedal is less than before... but that's obvious because the stock pads only had 20% left on them haha.
If anything i shall update you guys. thanks for the help again.
01-31-2005, 09:13 AM
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Never seen stop squeek without shims....hmmm. I would have taken those nipples down with a bench grinder in about 1/2 a second and used the shims. 
I can't imagine the piston side of the caliper with stop squeek and no shims.
I hope it works nice and quiet for you.
I can't imagine the piston side of the caliper with stop squeek and no shims.
I hope it works nice and quiet for you.
06-16-2005, 07:37 PM
#21
Wait, so you didn't get those tabs off completely?
I got Hawk HP Plus pads, and they said it was OK. So I installed the pads with the tabs still on there, and they hit the caliper pistons, making the pads apply against the rotor at an angle. Get those tabs off COMPLETELY. I used a hacksaw, got about 60% in, then used dykes to pry it off. Then I rubbed that side of the pad against the concrete until it was completely smooth. Concrete pavement is the best sandpaper ever.
I got Hawk HP Plus pads, and they said it was OK. So I installed the pads with the tabs still on there, and they hit the caliper pistons, making the pads apply against the rotor at an angle. Get those tabs off COMPLETELY. I used a hacksaw, got about 60% in, then used dykes to pry it off. Then I rubbed that side of the pad against the concrete until it was completely smooth. Concrete pavement is the best sandpaper ever.
06-16-2005, 09:00 PM
#22
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Thread Starter
It's been 4000 miles since... no problems with the rear pads at all.
No weird noises, better stopping compared to stock pads under moderate & heavy braking, about the same amount of brake dust as before... I check on them every now and then since i did away with the shim but everything's fine.
No weird noises, better stopping compared to stock pads under moderate & heavy braking, about the same amount of brake dust as before... I check on them every now and then since i did away with the shim but everything's fine.
06-17-2005, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by subtledreamer
I tried sanding those nipples off with a 60-grit sand paper. Only got the paint off.
Then I used a saw to attempt to cut them off. Nope. Got about 40% way in and my hands were tired already.
So I just installed the pads without the shims since someone has done it with 3k+ miles on them and no problems yet. Taking a little chance here.
I did this 2 days ago and just got a chance to post some pics... here you go:
wheel off, caliper unbolted and swung up. stock brake pads taken off.
[im g]http://files.subtledream.com/forum/IMG_0621.jpg[/img]
EBC Greenstuff on the left and stocks on the right
[im g]http://files.subtledream.com/forum/IMG_0623.jpg[/img]
EBC's installed without shim. i added the red paste as people recommended... actually i dont know if they even help since im not using the shims.
[im g]http://files.subtledream.com/forum/IMG_0624.jpg[/img]
everything back together.
[im g]http://files.subtledream.com/forum/IMG_0630.jpg[/img]
well i've driven about 100 miles on them so they are through with the Initial break-in. been engine braking more to avoid stomping on the brakes too much and will do some for the next few hundreds miles since I remember reading from somewhere that it takes about 800 miles for the pads to fully break-in.
So far so good. The difference I've felt so far is that the travel when i step on the brake pedal is less than before... but that's obvious because the stock pads only had 20% left on them haha.
If anything i shall update you guys. thanks for the help again.
Then I used a saw to attempt to cut them off. Nope. Got about 40% way in and my hands were tired already.
So I just installed the pads without the shims since someone has done it with 3k+ miles on them and no problems yet. Taking a little chance here.
I did this 2 days ago and just got a chance to post some pics... here you go:
wheel off, caliper unbolted and swung up. stock brake pads taken off.
[im g]http://files.subtledream.com/forum/IMG_0621.jpg[/img]
EBC Greenstuff on the left and stocks on the right
[im g]http://files.subtledream.com/forum/IMG_0623.jpg[/img]
EBC's installed without shim. i added the red paste as people recommended... actually i dont know if they even help since im not using the shims.
[im g]http://files.subtledream.com/forum/IMG_0624.jpg[/img]
everything back together.
[im g]http://files.subtledream.com/forum/IMG_0630.jpg[/img]
well i've driven about 100 miles on them so they are through with the Initial break-in. been engine braking more to avoid stomping on the brakes too much and will do some for the next few hundreds miles since I remember reading from somewhere that it takes about 800 miles for the pads to fully break-in.
So far so good. The difference I've felt so far is that the travel when i step on the brake pedal is less than before... but that's obvious because the stock pads only had 20% left on them haha.
If anything i shall update you guys. thanks for the help again.
also, the travel should have been unaffected, the only thing that fixes that is a fluid change. the piston takes up the difference when your pads are down...
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