BMW 330 vs Acura TL-S
05-05-2001, 07:55 PM
#41
Not a Blowhole
To get the 330 to out accelerate a TL-S, you have to do a drop clutch holeshot. That is fun if you are a car tester (which I do in my spare time so I know the game and often attend press launches and car comparos). Considering that BMW clutches are not known for their robustness, I would do that infrequently. The ESS will click off snappy 0-60 times all day long.
The BMW has better brakes.
BMW comes with better tires. With upgraded tires, the Ess will handle quite well as a 5-series, as both understeer at the limit.
I foind the 3-series dash look cheap - I like the TL's instrument cluster.
I have owned numerous BMW's, including an M3, and had niggling problems with all of them. I also can document many cases of factory engineering flaws in BMW;s (as reported in the club Magazine, the Roundel) that BMW did not support the owner;s in resolving.
All three of my Acura's have been dead reliable.
I am a big man, and need the room of the TL-S.
------------------
Rage On!
2002 TL-S w. Comptech header/exhaust
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17
The BMW has better brakes.
BMW comes with better tires. With upgraded tires, the Ess will handle quite well as a 5-series, as both understeer at the limit.
I foind the 3-series dash look cheap - I like the TL's instrument cluster.
I have owned numerous BMW's, including an M3, and had niggling problems with all of them. I also can document many cases of factory engineering flaws in BMW;s (as reported in the club Magazine, the Roundel) that BMW did not support the owner;s in resolving.
All three of my Acura's have been dead reliable.
I am a big man, and need the room of the TL-S.
------------------
Rage On!
2002 TL-S w. Comptech header/exhaust
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17
05-06-2001, 12:08 PM
#42
Originally posted by Road Rage:
I also can document many cases of factory engineering flaws in BMW;s (as reported in the club Magazine, the Roundel) that BMW did not support the owner;s in resolving.
I also can document many cases of factory engineering flaws in BMW;s (as reported in the club Magazine, the Roundel) that BMW did not support the owner;s in resolving.
05-06-2001, 07:16 PM
#43
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What type of driving do you do in winter? If you don't mind thumbing it cause the beamer can't get thru that snow pile, or year round you don't mind less reliability...then by all means buy it. Presonally I want front wheel drive and more reliability. Not to mention $10K less to pay.
05-06-2001, 07:18 PM
#44
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What type of driving do you do in winter? If you don't mind thumbing it cause the beamer can't get thru that snow pile, or year round you don't mind less reliability...then by all means buy it. Presonally I want front wheel drive and more reliability. Not to mention $10K less to pay.
05-06-2001, 07:54 PM
#45
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Posts: n/a
How can your friend afford a BMW 330?
Originally posted by JATLIFE:
OK, I just wanted to get a comparison of the two and see what some of you unbiased readers thought of the two cars. My best friend is looking at a 330 and I'm looking to the TL-S. Here is what I think of the two cars:
Exterior looks: The TL looks a lot bigger and is in a different class than the BMW. He's gonna get a sport kit for his, I'm gonna get the body kit. Both are going to look VERY NICE, with the BMW looking a little bit smaller.
Interior: The TL wins this one, hands down. Better looking dash. Never been a fan of the BMW stereo/ac/dash look. Its nice, though, but I think the tl has the edge here. Also, the TL, I assume, is bigger inside compared to the 330, right? I think so.
Performance: The TL, according to mags, has been clocked at 6.2 or 6.3 0-60. I'm not sure about the 330, but I think its the same (the 5-speed.) Im not sure, but does the Acura have more power on the freeway and at higher speeds? I think there is a ever so slight advantage for the TL in the power department. The 330 handles better than the TL. I plan on buying comptech springs and sway bars, so how does that rank with a 330? I know the 330 has the handling edge still, but by how much? And how do the rides compare (in terms of smoothness?) And who has the better brakes? I assume the BMW. So this segment goes to the BMW.
Price: Acura gets you a lot more luxury for a lot less $$$. I think its more luxury than sport, compared to the BMW being a bit more sport than luxury. But the Acura is a much better buy.
Any other things that should be compared between these cars? If you guys have any comments, please post them. If you have test drove them let me know. I read that the Acura is better reliability wise and for resale value. What about fit/finish?
I personally think these are the two best cars in that range, hands down. Nothing really comes close. Just wanted some more unbiased feedback. I tend to think they are both great cars, both have great qualities about them, and with all things considered are equally good. I really dont know if one has the edge over the other.
Sorry for blabbin'... just wanted some intelligent feedback. PEACE.
BTW, we are both 22 and mustang drivers (i have a 94gt, he had his 95 cobra totalled.)
OK, I just wanted to get a comparison of the two and see what some of you unbiased readers thought of the two cars. My best friend is looking at a 330 and I'm looking to the TL-S. Here is what I think of the two cars:
Exterior looks: The TL looks a lot bigger and is in a different class than the BMW. He's gonna get a sport kit for his, I'm gonna get the body kit. Both are going to look VERY NICE, with the BMW looking a little bit smaller.
Interior: The TL wins this one, hands down. Better looking dash. Never been a fan of the BMW stereo/ac/dash look. Its nice, though, but I think the tl has the edge here. Also, the TL, I assume, is bigger inside compared to the 330, right? I think so.
Performance: The TL, according to mags, has been clocked at 6.2 or 6.3 0-60. I'm not sure about the 330, but I think its the same (the 5-speed.) Im not sure, but does the Acura have more power on the freeway and at higher speeds? I think there is a ever so slight advantage for the TL in the power department. The 330 handles better than the TL. I plan on buying comptech springs and sway bars, so how does that rank with a 330? I know the 330 has the handling edge still, but by how much? And how do the rides compare (in terms of smoothness?) And who has the better brakes? I assume the BMW. So this segment goes to the BMW.
Price: Acura gets you a lot more luxury for a lot less $$$. I think its more luxury than sport, compared to the BMW being a bit more sport than luxury. But the Acura is a much better buy.
Any other things that should be compared between these cars? If you guys have any comments, please post them. If you have test drove them let me know. I read that the Acura is better reliability wise and for resale value. What about fit/finish?
I personally think these are the two best cars in that range, hands down. Nothing really comes close. Just wanted some more unbiased feedback. I tend to think they are both great cars, both have great qualities about them, and with all things considered are equally good. I really dont know if one has the edge over the other.
Sorry for blabbin'... just wanted some intelligent feedback. PEACE.
BTW, we are both 22 and mustang drivers (i have a 94gt, he had his 95 cobra totalled.)
05-06-2001, 08:39 PM
#46
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Posts: n/a
the tl type s is bigger, faster,and more powerful than the 330. and the ride quality is about the same, firm, but not jarring.tls also has more features and is over $15,000 less than 330. However i think the bmw looks better and is rear wheel drive, but is that worth $15,000 more?
05-06-2001, 10:28 PM
#47
Webologist,
I respect your observations and opinions, I mean no disrespect. Rather, I'd actually be very interested, as you posed, in what other peoples' experiences were with off-the-line "battles" in their TL-S's.
You'd mentioned that you didn't perchance to see the type of BMW 3-series that it was -- it could have been a 328i, 323i, or a 325i, or even the Xi AWD edition. All of these should result in the experience you described -- and the 328i if it was automatic. My experience with a BMW 330i manual was as follows: he got a great launch w/ just a short "chirp" of the tires and was easily 1.5 car lengths on me before I started to gain traction and hit 2nd gear. I was 1/2 car length behind at 70 mph, when I called it quits (I'd rather be safe than prove my manhood by drag racing). But of course, as Rage has mentioned, he did drop the clutch at a high rpm (I could hear it since my windows were rolled down.) Whatever I lost in traction when I floored it -- he took to his advantage -- I'm not trying to be a mag. racer -- just giving you my realtime experience.
1st - 2.563 TL-S gear ratios
2nd - 1.551
3rd - 1.021
4th - 0.653* (note how TALL these are)
5th - 0.470*
Reverse - 1.846
Final Drive - 4.428
1st - 4.21/3.67 BMW 330i
2nd - 2.49/2.00 (manual/auto)
3rd - 1.66/1.41
4th - 1.24/1.00**
5th - 1.00/.74** Not as tall as TL-S
225 hp/5900 rpm
214 lb-ft/3500
Looking strictly at the gearing of the TL-S and the 330i(manual), it's evident that what the 330i lacks in hp/torque, it makes up in 300lbs of less curb weight and shorter gear ratios. However, since it reaches its max torque at 3500 rpms, it makes sense it'll get a great launch if you dump the clutch at 3800 rpms (what I experienced). However, as you correctly pointed out -- the TL-S does pick up steam quickly because our 232 lb-ft of torque are in the 5000 rpm range -- VTEC range, so each time we shift, we're still in the torque band. It makes sense that it's always better to have peak torque up high than down low on the power band. Also, auto trannies typically lose 23-25% of their power to the driveline, while manual trannies tend to lose anywhere from 15-18% to the driveline. Recomputing the respective hp's in the TL-S/330i(manual): TL-S BMW 330i
200.2 hp vs. 184.5 hp
Curb weights: 3600 lbs vs. 3318 lbs.
--> This seems like a better comparison!
I'm interested in what others' experiences are like!
P.S. -- Stats on the M3 (1999)
3.2-liter DOHC 24-valve inline 6-cylinder engine
240 hp @ 6,000 rpm
236 lb-ft of torque @ 3,800 rpm
5-speed manual transmission
This engine only has a 15 hp advantage over the 330i, and a 22 lb-ft advantage in the torque arena -- however, I've raced my friend's M3 and the TL-S gets blown out of the water -- I know you mentioned "NO M Bimmers..." in your first analysis -- just
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by PeterUbers on May 06, 2001 @ ]</font>
I respect your observations and opinions, I mean no disrespect. Rather, I'd actually be very interested, as you posed, in what other peoples' experiences were with off-the-line "battles" in their TL-S's.
You'd mentioned that you didn't perchance to see the type of BMW 3-series that it was -- it could have been a 328i, 323i, or a 325i, or even the Xi AWD edition. All of these should result in the experience you described -- and the 328i if it was automatic. My experience with a BMW 330i manual was as follows: he got a great launch w/ just a short "chirp" of the tires and was easily 1.5 car lengths on me before I started to gain traction and hit 2nd gear. I was 1/2 car length behind at 70 mph, when I called it quits (I'd rather be safe than prove my manhood by drag racing). But of course, as Rage has mentioned, he did drop the clutch at a high rpm (I could hear it since my windows were rolled down.) Whatever I lost in traction when I floored it -- he took to his advantage -- I'm not trying to be a mag. racer -- just giving you my realtime experience.
1st - 2.563 TL-S gear ratios
2nd - 1.551
3rd - 1.021
4th - 0.653* (note how TALL these are)
5th - 0.470*
Reverse - 1.846
Final Drive - 4.428
1st - 4.21/3.67 BMW 330i
2nd - 2.49/2.00 (manual/auto)
3rd - 1.66/1.41
4th - 1.24/1.00**
5th - 1.00/.74** Not as tall as TL-S
225 hp/5900 rpm
214 lb-ft/3500
Looking strictly at the gearing of the TL-S and the 330i(manual), it's evident that what the 330i lacks in hp/torque, it makes up in 300lbs of less curb weight and shorter gear ratios. However, since it reaches its max torque at 3500 rpms, it makes sense it'll get a great launch if you dump the clutch at 3800 rpms (what I experienced). However, as you correctly pointed out -- the TL-S does pick up steam quickly because our 232 lb-ft of torque are in the 5000 rpm range -- VTEC range, so each time we shift, we're still in the torque band. It makes sense that it's always better to have peak torque up high than down low on the power band. Also, auto trannies typically lose 23-25% of their power to the driveline, while manual trannies tend to lose anywhere from 15-18% to the driveline. Recomputing the respective hp's in the TL-S/330i(manual): TL-S BMW 330i
200.2 hp vs. 184.5 hp
Curb weights: 3600 lbs vs. 3318 lbs.
--> This seems like a better comparison!
I'm interested in what others' experiences are like!
P.S. -- Stats on the M3 (1999)
3.2-liter DOHC 24-valve inline 6-cylinder engine
240 hp @ 6,000 rpm
236 lb-ft of torque @ 3,800 rpm
5-speed manual transmission
This engine only has a 15 hp advantage over the 330i, and a 22 lb-ft advantage in the torque arena -- however, I've raced my friend's M3 and the TL-S gets blown out of the water -- I know you mentioned "NO M Bimmers..." in your first analysis -- just
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by PeterUbers on May 06, 2001 @ ]</font>
05-07-2001, 08:50 AM
#48
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Peter,
Thanks for the thoughtful analysis. In my case I was in the left lane, an old white Porshe was next to me and the BMW was next to the Porshe. I didn't know anything was going on, when the light turned I think the BMW was trying to race the Porshe, which didn't engage. I was taking off normally, unaware until I saw the BMW shoot out. That's when I engaged. It would have been much worse for him if I was prepared. On the other hand my traction control would also have had more to do if I was flooring it from a stop.
BMW are wonderful drivers machines. They do have great balance, RWD, light weight. Under the hood though no BMW 6 until the current M compares. My sometimes carpool buddy has a 328i Automatic. There is no way he'd line it up against my TL-S. It is a very nice car, smooth and handles well. It lacks the brutal acceleration of the TL-S.
Regards
-w
Thanks for the thoughtful analysis. In my case I was in the left lane, an old white Porshe was next to me and the BMW was next to the Porshe. I didn't know anything was going on, when the light turned I think the BMW was trying to race the Porshe, which didn't engage. I was taking off normally, unaware until I saw the BMW shoot out. That's when I engaged. It would have been much worse for him if I was prepared. On the other hand my traction control would also have had more to do if I was flooring it from a stop.
BMW are wonderful drivers machines. They do have great balance, RWD, light weight. Under the hood though no BMW 6 until the current M compares. My sometimes carpool buddy has a 328i Automatic. There is no way he'd line it up against my TL-S. It is a very nice car, smooth and handles well. It lacks the brutal acceleration of the TL-S.
Regards
-w
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