Guest

OK, I just wanted to get a comparison of the two and see what some of you unbiased readers thought of the two cars. My best friend is looking at a 330 and I'm looking to the TL-S. Here is what I think of the two cars:

Exterior looks: The TL looks a lot bigger and is in a different class than the BMW. He's gonna get a sport kit for his, I'm gonna get the body kit. Both are going to look VERY NICE, with the BMW looking a little bit smaller.

Interior: The TL wins this one, hands down. Better looking dash. Never been a fan of the BMW stereo/ac/dash look. Its nice, though, but I think the tl has the edge here. Also, the TL, I assume, is bigger inside compared to the 330, right? I think so.

Performance: The TL, according to mags, has been clocked at 6.2 or 6.3 0-60. I'm not sure about the 330, but I think its the same (the 5-speed.) Im not sure, but does the Acura have more power on the freeway and at higher speeds? I think there is a ever so slight advantage for the TL in the power department. The 330 handles better than the TL. I plan on buying comptech springs and sway bars, so how does that rank with a 330? I know the 330 has the handling edge still, but by how much? And how do the rides compare (in terms of smoothness?) And who has the better brakes? I assume the BMW. So this segment goes to the BMW.

Price: Acura gets you a lot more luxury for a lot less $$$. I think its more luxury than sport, compared to the BMW being a bit more sport than luxury. But the Acura is a much better buy.

Any other things that should be compared between these cars? If you guys have any comments, please post them. If you have test drove them let me know. I read that the Acura is better reliability wise and for resale value. What about fit/finish?

I personally think these are the two best cars in that range, hands down. Nothing really comes close. Just wanted some more unbiased feedback. I tend to think they are both great cars, both have great qualities about them, and with all things considered are equally good. I really dont know if one has the edge over the other.

Sorry for blabbin'... just wanted some intelligent feedback. PEACE.

BTW, we are both 22 and mustang drivers (i have a 94gt, he had his 95 cobra totalled.)

Guest

Also, how do these two stereos compare (stock). I hope the TL has some bass that you can feel... or else im gonna have to hook up an amp and a 12. THANKS for the feedback.

mikester

Wow, this should be interesting, since this topic has never come up before!

Seriously, you might want to search the archives, since this topic has been debated at least a dozen times in the last month.

roadman

Compare apples to apples, there is a lot of debate here that you can use. The TL-S compares to the 530, not the 330.

The optional stereo on the BMW is outstanding. BMW is a rear wheel drive 50-50 weight distribution car. With a manual it is definately faster that the TL-S, auto it is slower. Optioned the same way it is about $12k more. 330 is classified as a compact car, you would be better served to compare the 330 to the Audi S4. The TL-S and the 330 were designed to target different segments of drivers. Trying to make them fit into the same mold will take away from each cars strengths.

Comparing these two is like comparing the 330 to the Audi A6 2.7T, both the A6 and the TL-S are about the same size and make about the same power.

AKRY

I agree with MOST of the points you listed on there. Especially the Bang-For-The-Buck factor. HOWEVER, I am slightly disagree with you regarding interior. Both fit and finish in BMW is far superior than TL-S, though it look bland. BMW has more luxurious feel, TL-S is more sporty.

330i is MUCH smaller in the interior. TL-S has much more leg room for the rear. Power seats are much better in 330i, and front driver/passenger headroom is better, also(maybe it's because of TL-S' slope windshield that makes me "feel" TL-S headroom is a bit less than 330i).

Performance wise, 330i wins hands down when comes to handling(especially with Sport Package), 5-speed 330i should be able to dust a TL-S, though not by much.

Overall, TL-S may be more trouble-free(little glitches here and there, that is), but fit/finish quality of BMW can not be denied....German engineering excellence contributes alot, too...

Andy Kuo

------------------
'92 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
Pearl Grey/Black

'02 Acura TL-S
Satin Silver/Ebony, w/out NAV

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

Louisiana

The BMW Trunk and back seat are tiny.

If you can deal with that then you have a tough decision to make.

It was easy for me.

Guest

Definitely faster? I thought the 330 is the same. I didnt think it could go 0-60 in faster than 6.2-6.3, but I could be wrong.

As for the interior, I dont know about it feeling more luxurious. It is more luxurious when you have a black TLS with the black wood stuff, but the TLS with the beige interior looks pretty damn luxurious. I guess its just a matter of personal opinion. I guess both are nice... but I think I meant it was overall more luxurious (stereo look, ac look, seats, back seat, etc.)

So how does a TLS with sway bars and springs stack up to a 330, handling wise? I know its not as good, but is it even close? How about brakes?

And for the apples to apples, the 530 is in a COMPLETELY different price range. I know the 330 is more, but the 5 is tens of thousands of dollars more.

And I could search the archives, but I dont want to! Dont respond if you arent gonna write anything constructive. Just want to get some new ideas... maybe someone has test drove both lately.

Both are very nice vehicles, though.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Why wouldn't you wanna search the archives? You're only depriving yourself of very diverse, unique opinions on the EXACT same topic you've created. This has been BEATEN to death on this forum - but hell, I'll still post some of my opinions because I've had the TL-S for over 1600 miles now. Opinions change month to month sometimes w/ cars, and the tend to level off after the first 10,000 miles. I think it's perfectly constructive for mikester to have suggested the archive retrieval -- don't quite know what your problem is.

Furthermore -- if you're considering performance aspects & comparisons -- you should really consider (unless you haven't already done so -- and hopefully you'll consider this "constructive") posting your question on the www.acura-cl.com website. Members on that site have discussed the performance aspects of the CL Type S (identical to the TL Type S) vs. the BMW 3-series TO DEATH. Many people posting on this TL-S forum are new Acura owners, and more likely new "Type S" owners.

Oh and if you want serious performance -- I'd consider a couple year old M3 for less than the loaded price of a new 330Ci -- I rode in one this weekend and the experience is tres tres awesome.

Gomez

I drove them all. No comparison, you should drive a 525 and/or a 530i and then you'll see that that's the closest BMW to the TL. You really can't go on just money: gee, a hardtop '67 Corvette costs about the same as a TL also.

330 = sport, TL(S) = sport/luxury

Acura has no real competition for the 3-series yet, unfortunately. I hear you on trying to decide between the two cars, though, for what it's worth I cross-shopped: 325i, 325Ci, Z3 2.5, Z3 2.8 (used), 528i (used), IS300, ES300, I30, TL, CL-S, S2000, RX300 (used) and even a used 928-S. My last car was an '88 RX-7 convertible. How's that for a car marketing executive's nightmare!!!

------------------
'01 White Diamond Pearl 3.2TL
-Wing, tint, wood and Whistler

lonny

Haven't seen ANY Bummer (except an "M") that I can't beat with my TL-S (auto OR manual). Bring 'em on!

Guest

Talk about an old topic.
I personally started a thread like this when I was shopping for my car.

JATLIFE, Maybe you should ask your neighbor what HE thinks about the TLS vs the 330i.

M3Sins

I know for a fact that the 3 series is smaller than the TLS. Hell I was at the chicago meet and my car looked like a 'mini' next to the CLS and compared to the TLS. If you want performance and driving fun w/ optional luxury, get the BMW. If you want luxury w/ optional performance/handling get the TLS. Both cars are fun to drive, however I think the the driving pleasure of the BMW is better (I am not saying this because I own one, saying this because I have tested both cars). If you want to talk about luxury options, I think the BMW gets left in the dust compared to the TLS. Its your call. Luxury then performance or Performance then Luxury?

My 2 cents.

------------------
'98 ///M3
'93 ///Camry (hehe)
Coolest BMW Website

Guest

Peter... relax... I didnt search the archives because I have already READ them. Like I said in my post, I want a new perspective if someone has test drove both lately or someone has a new response... just like how your opinion changed after 1500K. Get it?

And my post was just comparing the two. I already know the used M3 is a nice car... thanks for the input. Next time read the original post before you have a caniption.

Thanks for all the input, fellas. The prevoius post is exactly what I was looking for. THANKS.

Guest

JATLIFE, from the looks of it, you're a BMW guy.

Something about your posts tell me that.

Have fun with it.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

You mean, before I have a "conniption?"

What does the "Jat" stand for?

Guest

Ahhhh, so thats how you spell it! I was too lazy to check it up. Anyway, the JAT is actually something to do with my religion/nationality. Its a long story that you definitely dont want to hear!

Me a BMW guy? Hardly. I actually used to hate BMW (and Mercedes, for that matter) until about two years ago. I thought the old 3-series was very ugly and outdated. Now I think they both have their act together. But I am definitely not a BMW guy. I am going to buy a TL-S, actually, in the next few months. I like the 330, but I dont think its better than the TL-S, even if price is not a consideration. Too many cars get a reputation and therefore are overrated in a lot of car enthusiasts mind. The BMW handles better, but I think the TL-S blows away the BMW in the looks department. Im not a big fan of small cars. I dont think there are two better cars than the CL-S/TL-S for the money.

So no, I'm actually not a BMW guy. I'm not an Acura guy, either, but give credit where credit is due. They really did a fantastic job with these cars.

BTW, I plan on buying an Aegean blue (MAYBE black) TL-S with the beige interior (I like black leather, but dont like that black wood.) I'm going to pass on the NAVI, though. My father has an S500 and while its nice and "cool", it just doesnt come in use enough to justify the 2 grand. If I had the money, I would buy it, but I dont... so I wont. I'm strongly considering the body kit, but I want to see some pics first. I think I'll pass on the spoiler -- I actually like the look without it. I plan on lowering it with comptech springs (everyone here says get those) and adding sway bars. Thats about it.

You guys have some very nice cars. Really, I dont think any cars come close, even if they are 10-15K more. The 5 series is nice, but do I want a car that will be redesigned in a year? No. Overpriced and played out.

OK, I'm done.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

That wouldn't happen to be related to an indian heritage -- perhaps sikh indian?

BarryH

If you get Aegean Blue you'll be getting an Ebony interior. The TL-P (and the Canadian TL-S only) comes in Eternal Blue with Parchment. Get Black and you can choose either interior color.

Guest

Yes indeed, it has to do with me being a Sikh. My people are originally from a state named Punjab... located in India, but not "Indian".

DAMN! I cant get an Aegean blue with parchment!?!?!? DAMN! I am NOT a fan of that black wood stuff that comes with the black interiors. DAMN! Can I get that taken out and replaced with the other normal wood? I really like the blue but HATE the black wood. Damn, what do I do?!?!?!?!?!? I think I'll have to fork over serious dough to get what I want... thats a shame. Maybe I could live with the black wood, but I doubt it. I love the look of normal looking wood.

Pimpin_TL

Honestly, I think our car looks better than the 330. The 330xi looks phat as hell, esp with the nice rims, low ground clearance, etc, and it should handle like a charm, i've driven M3's in the past and their great, but I heard the 330s are 60 in like 5.8, which means that they got you beat by about .5 seconds. Howevr, i should point out that the times that the magazine drivers get you'd be lucky to pull that off in the real world. I've raced a 2000 TL, and supposedly the 2000's are faster in 60 but we raced 4 times, and it was even, (he beat me by approx 2 feet each time). So I don't always trust the magazines anways Jat. But, i think that the TL looks better, and i think with the springs, and sways, and better tire,s and lighter rims, and comptech Headers (what,,, 34 hps!), you should smoke him in handling and acceleration! Get the TL-S, do the mods, you will have a better looking, better performing car. the only thing they have us on now is the projection beams, they look sweeet!!

------------------
'99 3.2 TL

Black/Black
Burlwood Shift Knob
Bodykit
Spoiler
Tint

Guest

I agree with you man. The 330's can look sweet. Actually, this best friend of mine is getting a 330ci (the coupe.) I'm tellin' him he might be better off with the 4 door, but the 2 door is fat too. They are sweet, but I dont think they have any CLEAR advantage over us. Plus, our car is bigger and when its lowered with all the mods you suggested, its fatter... but thanks for the input... I think you're right on.

Pimpin_TL

He should get the 4 door. I've owned a coupe, prelude, and it gets hectic. Okay, if you want a sports car, he shouldhold off and get the M3 coupe, that makes sense. But in a car that isn't a real sports car, get a 4 door, especially when even the 4door is compact! I guess the biggest complaint i have with the new 330's is... can you really tell the difference between a 323 4 door and a 330? I've seen 323 with the upgraded tires, rims, suspension and it looks just like a 330.. heck go change the tags. Not worth the difference in my opinion.

Get the TLs, get cheap repairs, have peace of mind that if it gets a scratch it won't cost you an arm and a leg, get the better looking TL, the better performing modified TL, its just a great deal all around. Acuras really hit the jackpot with the Gen 2- Gen 2.5 (the 02's are not diff enough to be its own Gen i think) TL's...

------------------
'99 3.2 TL

Black/Black
Burlwood Shift Knob
Bodykit
Spoiler
Tint

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Pimpin_TL on May 01, 2001 @ ]</font>

Guest

You hit that one on the head, for sure! You can easily rebadge it and nobody would know. That exact same reasoning is what I used with him trying to convince him of the 4-door. I was going to get a cl-s, but then when the tl-s came out... it wasnt much of a debate. I have no kids, but i'm getting married in a few months and kids will come in the next few years... from what Ive heard from a couple of new parents, 2 doors are a *****! Also, I just think the TL has a more luxurious look to it... I dunno, I like the 4 TL more than the CL.

But he should just rebadge that 323! Hes into performance and all that though (so am I... no 323 for me... so TL is an easy choice) so hes gettin a 330 and spending about 10K more than me. Thats A LOT of dough. Someone could easily get a 323, get rims and rebadge it for 10 bucks and nobody would know the difference. PEACE.

AKRY

Actually, you can spot a 330i by looking at its headlight housing. 330i has SILVER housing while the rest have BLACK. 330i also has chromed tipped exhaust tips, and multi-spoke 17" rims STD(M-Tech designed rims with Sport Package). 325i gets 16", 5-spoke rims, while 320i get wheel covers.

Andy Kuo

------------------
'92 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
Pearl Grey/Black

'02 Acura TL-S
Satin Silver/Ebony, w/out NAV

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

Guest

Well there you go! Andy dropping some science on us.

Those differences dont seem very hard to get... tailpipes are easy, rims we would expect to be aftermarket anyway (if you're savin that money, spend it on some rims!). So you would just have the headlight housing being different... which isnt easy to spot without a trained eye. They should have made more changes. Can you get a 323 coupe? Actually, I think the 323's are now 325's... not too sure though.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

You're not indian -- cuz why -- cuz your parents are, but you're not (Not a jab here, just curious)? I know exact where this magical place of "Punjab" is .. my parents are from there as well. Never underestimate how uncultured the people around you really may be --

But I don't wanna get off-topic -- enjoy your new ride, you'll like it alot. I'm investing in future mods soon, and I'm sure it'll on enhance my experience. However, I wanna make sure I've enjoyed the stock power before I get used to the modded power and then crave more.

Guest

Uhhhh what? First of all, I dont consider myself Indian. I consider myself Sikh. My parents are from Punjab, yes, but I am cultured and know everything there is to know, for the most part. Yes, I consider myself to be an American, but I am also Sikh. Not sure where that comment came from. Although I know what you mean... there are some sellouts out there that want nothing to do with their own culture or religion.

As for the TL-S, I plan on doing the same. I dont plan on doing any performance mods in the first year or so and probably wont do anything at all. Maybe these sparkplugs I hear so much about, but we'll see when I do more investigation. The only thing I will do is get comptech springs and sway bars immediately... because I will be getting married right after I get it and want to it to look perfect by the time my wedding hits. Just those two mods, plus a bodykit. No spoiler, no navi. Thats it. What do you think?

You got yourself a great ride, Peter. I am totally in love with the TL-S. Acura did a great job... never was a huge fan of Acura, but damn did they do their homework on this one.

acuraguynj

This past weekend, I had the chance to view up close the 330i & 330ix Titanium Silver models (Sedans) at my local BMW Dealer.

They both seem like small cars, however someone mentioned this before, the driver & passenger interior room seems more spacious in the BMW, maybe due to that sloping windshield in our TLs.

You have got to be excited about a 260 HP, TL Type S, that is pure power and what a great price too! HOWEVER, there is something very alluring about a BMW 330i with Sports & Premium Package, something so sweet about it, you crave it. From the atmosphere at the dealership to the excitement of owning a BMW and realizing that you are in the showroom checking out a $90K 7 series car right there in front of you.

A fully loaded 330i tops out at around $41K MSRP(without Nav), so it's around $5K-$7K more than a Fully loaded TL Type S MSRP wise. BMW does take off MSRP - around $1,500-$2,000, so the difference could still be around $5K.

Then you have to think about how many mods you will add to your Acura & BMW, which costs more money. I believe with the Acura you will add more aftermarket enhancements.
As an older guy here at 27 with various/different priorities like the rest of us, I would rather get everything fully loaded, so I don't have to do too much afterwards to further enhance the car. Enjoy it the way it is.

So the pricing will be closer, but still the TL Type S is a better deal.

People here say that you should compare the TL & TL Type S to the BMW 530i, which I do agree with, however the 5 Series is just way out of the price range.

I hope some of you can agree, that as much as we love our TLs and what a great value it is, we sometimes have cravings for a BWM, since they are geared for pure performance and have a great high end reputation. That combination is what we strive for at times.

Guest

besides the dollar issue, i think bmw330 is definately a better car than the tl-s. tl-s can't match the bmw performance, styling, and quality. some people say bmws' have reliability concerns, but that's thing of the past. bmws these days dont have any problems.

AKRY

3-Series are available in 320i, 325i/325xi/325Ci/325CiC(previously 323i/323Ci/323CiC) and 330i/330Xi/330Ci/330CiC(Previously 328i/328Ci), of course, M3/M3 Cab....

So, yes, 323/325 are available in Coupes, as well as Cabrio.

P.S. 325i Wagon should be out by now...
Andy Kuo

------------------
'92 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
Pearl Grey/Black

'02 Acura TL-S
Satin Silver/Ebony, w/out NAV

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by AKRY on May 03, 2001 @ ]</font>

Webologist

BMWs have higher quality? Have you visited www.ConsumerReports.org? Not even close. Don't speculate.

Regarding performance. Top speed TL-S no constest 20+MPH, ouch, check BMW.COM. Regarding acceleration, 330i manual, if you do EVERYTHING right can edge out an auto TL-S. 330i Auto will get decimated my the MUCH more powerful TL-S. 330i is a SUBCOMPACT, TL-S is a midsize. 330i is Civic comparable NOT TL-S (except in price). 330i has unsophisticated Mac Strut suspension, just like econo cars. TL-S has double wishbone, just like formula one cars. 330i can only accelerate as well as it does because it has very low gearing, this engine has no grunt at all! 330i running at 60MPH turns 2400 RPM. TL-S running at 60MPH turns 1750 RPM. Much larger car, higher gearing, auto-trans, similar times. 330i Manual should be embarassed! 330i Auto will see nothing but taillights! 328 with anything will see rearviews on TL-S, 323 with anything going down too, any 530, 528,525 series with anything ( a compact car by the way) going down.

By the way the gearing issue might be why Acuras are much more reliable than the BMW, don't you think? I guess if you don't have the grunt you gear it lower! ;-)

Regards
-w

Guest

Yeah right! The quality and reliability of BMW, Mercedes, etc. can NEVER match that of their Japanese competitors Lexus, Acura and Infiniti. And as for reliability concerns "being a thing of the past" tell that to the dissapointed X5 owner with their "transmissions falling out" who are all over the BMW forums and Edmunds townhall as well.

AKRY

vicpai,

I think you are missing the point here. Read all the posts carefully, many would agree mechanically, Acura/Lexus might be better, but finish/fit of Acura is NOT as good as BMW/Mercedes/Lexus... at least not yet....

Acura definitely needs to tighten up their TQM, though I still love my TL-S!!!

Andy Kuo

------------------
'92 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
Pearl Grey/Black

'02 Acura TL-S
Satin Silver/Ebony, w/out NAV

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

acuraguynj

There is one more way to manipulate the numbers:

$45K Fully Loaded BMW 330I - $15K 99TL Trade in is $30K.

$50K decently loaded BME 530i - $ 15K 99TL Trade is $35K.

Now we are more in my price range! HA! Just have to make sure it's worth it all.

roadman

Acuraguynj,

You're pricing comparison is off a bit, were you adding all of the options that come standard in a TL-S. If you do, meaning, auto, xenon lights, cd, etc. the price tag for non-nav is 45k, and that is if you want red, black or white, any other color is $500 more. The car is definately nice, but not 50% nicer than a TL-S, but that is what they want. Many people including myself got a TL-S for $30k or less, and did not have to go through the GM like exercise of picking through dozens of options.

Just think ony a few $k more and you can upgrade from a fully optioned (including NAV) 330 to a new Q45 or an E-class Benz.

Don't forget the snow tires for that 330, either that or a car cover for the winter months. Or for even more cash they also have an all-whell drive option.

AKRY

Prices are differ by regions, and of course between US and Canada.

Canadian BMWs get Xenon STD, with exceptions of Z3s and 320i. Anything above 325 get Xenon. CD deck is also standard.

3 packages are available, Sport Package, Premium Package, All-Wheel-Drive Package.

Technically, BMW may not be as reliable as Acura, but fit/finish quality is MUCH better, which is a fact....

Andy Kuo

------------------
'92 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
Pearl Grey/Black

'02 Acura TL-S
Satin Silver/Ebony, w/out NAV

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

zman

I completely agree. I used to own a BMW 328is and also a 528i and the fit and finish of the BMWs are far better than that of my 2002 TL-S. My in-laws own a body shop and they pointed out to me the flaws in fit & finish with the Acura, like mis-aligned trunk, and of course the obligatory uneven tail pipes.

Now I also have to agree that I do like the Acura a lot, because I do get much more for the money. To get all the features I have on the Acura TL-S on my old 528I would have cost me at least another $250/month on my payment.

My 2 cents.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Jatlife:

I'm not calling you a sellout by any means -- as I said -- just curious. Thanks for the response.

I think you'll be happy w/ the mods. I've been investigating mods on the acura-cl.com forum (very informative members!) for over a month now -- I've never modified a car other than drop a K&N filter in, so I'm a bit hestiant. Best of luck with car!

Webologist:

Good analysis, I'd like to add to it -

The TL-S and the 330i(manual) aren't even close in a 0-60mph dash for two reasons, and I think you'd agree, 1) RWD vs. FWD (we lose a LOT of traction when we floor it, all the weight is shifted OFF the drive wheels to the back -- serious squat in the TL-S), 2) Manaul vs. Auto -- 330i's can launch at high rpms and get that edge that we could only dream about in an auto. As far as performance in turns -- well, we have a 62/38 weight ratio, while the BMW's flaunt their near 50/50's. This allows for the back end of the car to follow the nose w/ minimal oversteer and understeer compared to a nose-heavy FWD/RWD auto. As for the AUTO 330i vs. the TL-S -- the auto 330i will still edge out the TL-S; we have horrible stock rubber up front, and the RWD take off is still better w/ brake torquing compared to FWD w/ brake torquing -- the 330i doesn't peel out at take off (w/o torquing) allowing it a couple ticks off the 0-60 time. However, after 80mph, the TL-S takes the cake and should slowly run away from the Bimmer. And not to mention the BMW is weighing in at 3318 lbs (edmunds.com).

I've given up being a magazine racer -- in real-time scenarios -- those numbers are very off. Most people w/ CL-S's and TL-S's .. most .. will be lucky to see a 0-60 mph dash of 6.6 seconds w/ a 15.2 sec 1/4 mile. It's all about the traction from the Michelins and the weight transfer.


But I totally agree about the TL-S revving at 1750, crusing speeds, vs. the 2400 rpms of BMW. I'd rather have, however, shorter gears for quicker off-the-line performance, than the taller gears -- cuz I'll never, or rarely at best, see the top end speeds of the TL-S .. I'll leave that to ZodiakTL.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by PeterUbers on May 04, 2001 @ ]</font>

Webologist

Peter,

I'd just can't agreee. Just last Tuesday a BMW driver attempted to prove you correct in Irvine. Horsepower difference is HUGE!!!!!!!!!! I didn't even know he was racing, he took off first and did get a great launch. After delay I nailed it. The TL-S reeled him within 5 seconds and spit him out seconds later. I let off at about 93 MPH with a 3 car length edge. The humiliation for the Beemer was only getting worse as speeds increased. You should have seen the look on the guys face. I want to check the BMW site because the guy had no clue what kind of car was screaming past. Talk about a double take!

Anyway I stand by my statement that the TL-S will embarrass MOST non-M BMWs ever made in acceleration. 1-0 TL-S so far, but I'll be happy to continue the experiment ;-) By the way does this site sell little propellers to stick on our doors? Please help me experiment, I'd be interested to see if your experience is different, I doubt it.

It doesn't seem even close based on my experience so far. The one I raced was an E46 3 Series. Not sure what engine, it happened quickly. Quite decisive though.

Regards
-w

1000bpm

I'd have to agree with your assessment on the power comparison.

I test drove a 330 earlier today. I floored it several times but the power was just not as readily avaialble as it was in the case of the TLS. The difference was not subtle, the TLS seemed to me to have a LOT more low end torque. The 330 I drove was an automatic perhaps that was the reason.

Having said that, the 330 handled superbly. Because of its RWD design it can do things the TLS cannot. Dashboard visibiity and fit and finish were superb, though not as good as Audi's. I especially like the way the controls in the center console are angled towards the driver. Why can't other manufacturers realize that 99% of the time its the driver who fiddles with the controls!! It remained glued to the road during sharp curves (even more so than the IS 300 in my opinion), its suspension soaked up bumps in the road, the steering was more precise, and braking from 70 to 0 was superb (I'm glad the salesman didn't come along ).

On the minus side, the 330 is smaller than the TLS in just about every dimension except for head room. The trunk is smaller and rear passengers over 6 feet are going to ***** about the lack of space. The stock HK system was OK, better than Acura's but not as good as the ones standard for Lexus. Oh yeah ... and the options REALLY start adding up.

The 330 has been over-glorified by the auto press, but it is a great car no doubt.

Bottomline: if both cars cost the same I would pick the 330 over the TLS. But they dont, and so I have a TLS and am very happy with it.