jbs221

I just had a very frustrating experience with Santa Monica Acura service and Acura in general. For the second time I complained about my faulty navigation system. The first time, they merely reset it and said to see if that fixes the problem. Well that didn’t so when I had some time I brought it back and went over the symptoms again. They are: map display is often slanted, usually to the left while driving straight ahead. The car icon, while driving on a freeway, is sometimes placed on the adjacent service road. If a programmed destination is on going the voice will then tell me to enter the freeway at the next available entrance. (this is what initially tipped me off to this “feature”) It announces “DESTINATION” more than a block before the actual location, almost all the time. (If you’ve ever driven Magellan (Hertz Never-Lost) it’s usually spot on, on your destination. Lastly the touch screen often is dead to the touch or totally inaccurate, ie. Push button on right side, left button fires. I have on several occasions had to turn off the car and restart to clear a touch screen problem.
My service writer went with me on a ride and amazingly the car performed just as I said and even threw in a doozey of an add on. We programmed a return to the dealership and it wound up taking a ¾ mile detour in the wrong direction! I thought with all this evidence I would get it fixed. Maybe if it was a Lexus, but we here at Acura have a better solution, read the manual! Yup, that is what I was told to do. AND they kept the car OVER NIGHT to decide on this!!! RTFM!! I give up!
Another factor is my mom has a 2001 TL-P Navi so I can compare cars easily. Guess what, hers doesn’t do any of the anomalies except the “premature destination”.
After that great experience, I called Acura customer relations. I gave my whole story and she told me to take the car ot another dealer for a second opinion?! But this dealer saw all the problems what difference can a second opinion make.
I need to escalate this and don’t know where to go. I’m asking if any of you know who to call or have had similar Navi experiences. Am I alone, do I just have a lemon? Thanks for your time reading this!

Joe in Los Angeles
2002 SSM TL-S Navi-ish

:yack:

jbs221

Over 90 views and nobody has anything to say? Please tell me if your system is perfect, does weird things like mine or anything. Please PM if you don't want to post. I need feedback! Thanks for your help.

Joe in LA

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I don't have the navi... but what I would do is bring it to another dealer. If they fix it... give them your business going forward and complain about Santa Monica to Acura.....

Nick

I haven't experienced the problems you mention. I don't recall 'early destination' being announced early too often and never more than a block or so, but it is usually right on. Only time 'slanted display' may have appeared is when I opt for the vehicle-orientation mode rather than the north-oriented mode (by touching the icon in the upper right corner). Sometimes my car icon appears off-road, but usually snaps back onto the correct road within 10 seconds or so if it gets confused (which is not too often). The 'dead screen' hasn't occurred for me, but there have been some noticably delays in responding (up to 5 seconds). As for the accuracy of the touch entry, it usually gets it right, but occasionally may think I pressed a letter/option just next to the one I intended (never on the other side of the screen). A quirk that happened once to me on the interstate in CT was that it told me to get off at an exit (which I did just to see where it was taking me) and then it told me to immediately take the on-ramp to get back on. Other than that and that the digitized maps in my area are not detailed enough, I have no complaints with the unit. I am glad I opted for it. Good luck in your battle with the Acura folks.

paxus

First let me state that I do not have the Navi, but I am familiar with the system.

1) My first question: (don't flame) Is santa monica a relatively urban area? I ask because I have noted some users of the Navi say that in some areas of the country, the navi is very vague and doesn't have very detailed maps. This may have an impact on the location of your car icon. Just a thought.

2) Your touch screen is hosed. I have a friend who works in touch screen technology, and this never happens. You have faulty Hardware in my opinion. Seems obvious enough to me. Example, If you press the letter "L" on your keyboard, and the letter "A" is typed on the screen, it's obviously a faulty keyboard. Really, where is there any discrepancy in this argument? I relay this to you in an attemp to answer your "touch right button, left button entered" scenario. I hope this is still under warranty.

3) I got nothing for you on the Early Destination thing. That would be a software issue (read: DVD is a little fuzzy in it's logic).

I would agree with our mod on this one. Take it to another dealer to see what they say. Mention that this is not acceptable, and they should attempt to fix it, and IF they can't fix it, it's time for them to install an entirely new NAVI. Do NOT take a refurbished one if they do so. One faulty NAVI is enough. Especially for the ~$2k you paid. Best option to visit another dealer.

Hope this helps from a non-navi having guy. Best of luck.

jbs221

Thanks for the replies! I hope more with the Navi system reply here too!
To answer some inquirees: Santa Monica is part of Los Angeles and very urban. I have traveled the car between LA and Las Vegas and other SoCA areas. It seems to perform the same, ie weird, in all the areas.
I keep the orientation of the screen in the compass points to N mode, this way the car icon is always pointing up and the road I'm on should be straight up and down, within reason. On a perfeclty straight road the map leans to the lower left. Very annoying.
I also believe the LCD is hosed but am having difficulty with the service dept. I had a very long conversation with the Svc. Mgr. this morning and will be trying some more with him in a week when I return from a short trip. He says they couldn't replicate my problems when they tried to in the shop. I responded that I went on a drive with the service writer and he WITNESSED most of the anomolies I am complaining about. This drive was apparently a complete waste of time. The car "passes" the tests they give it.
Having another TL in the family that works just fine proves nothing to them, as it does to me.
Taking the car to another dealer proves nothing to me. I bought the car where I did because of proximity to my home. I need them to fix this as I am unwilling to put myself under even more stress (ie stuck in the longe for hours on end) to prove SM Acura sucks. I know they do, now. I've recorded my complaint with Acura and will see this through here. I can't wait for my Tranny to pop! That's all I need. :wow:
Thanks and please, if you have a Navi tell me how it works for you!
Joe In LA

Edward'TLS

I guess not many people use their Navi. even if they have one. They would most likely play around with it for the first few days they got their new cars. That's why there's so few answers to your problem.

jbs221

Pretty sad for a $2000 option. But I think you're right. I use it all the time, when it works, it's the best thing since sliced bread. That's why I'm so P'd off. I expect it should work, Acura just makes excuses why it doesn't. Damn shame for a $34k car!

rominl

ok, first, calm down. you go to santa monica acura for service that's a bit no no already. service guys over there are idiots. i bought my car from there but i would never ever go there for service again (i only went ONCE for oil change, even they told me i get free oil change for 3 yrs). i told them every time not to wash my car, they always washed... i told them about the seat belt squeak, they always said nothing.... i told them about the warpped rotors they told me not to brake so hard.... wtf....

anyway, i think this is what you should do. go to another better dealers. ask people from there which dealers, and ESPECIALLY the service advisor name they work with, and go there for second opinion. i think you should do that. get the problem fixed, and then after that, call up the acura service and file in a serious complain about the santa monica acura (and especially the advisor's name). from what i know, acura service DOES contact the dealer and bash them about it.

i have dealt with a lot of people from santa monica acura. i think the service manager, mike (??), is the best of all already. all the other folks are ass....

rominl

btw, also tell acura about the "read the manual" comment, or even fax them to document. tell them it's a big insult on you since you have read the whole manaul and have even demonstrated right IN FRONT OF the service advisor. demand an investigation and a formal apology.

DHB

We have and use the Navi in our 03 TLS every day. I'm happy to report that we have never had a single problem with it or seen any of the things you reported above.

jbs221

Thanks to rominl and DHB for your replies! I was giving SMA 1 more chance but I will reconsider. John is the Serv. Mgr. there now, don't know Mike. Does anybody have an opinion of Keyes in Van Nuys? They are the next nearest to me.

EmuMessenger

I had Navi in my 99 TL and have it in my 03 TLS and have not had any of the problems you are experiencing with either car. Sounds like a defect to me.

Mike H.

Try Peyton Cramer on Crenshaw and PCH. My GF brings here TL there for service and hasn't had any problems with them. For the destination bit, if I'm not mistaken the Nav says "desination ahead" so I can let a 1 block error slide.

jbs221

I agree that the 1 block error is the least of my worries. It's the same on our 2001 TL-P. That should be an easy software fix but from 2.03 to 2.05 it hasn't been fixed. Damn, I'd be a great beta tester, things never work right for me, I find ALL the bugs.
I believe Peyton is in Torrance? I'll look into them! Thanks for the reference.
Joe

LiQiCE

I just got my TL-S with NAVI so I haven't had the chance to really try it out a lot, but I've never had any of the problems you have except that it announces the destination before you get there ... But it says "Destination ahead" to warn you that the place you want to go is coming up. Its especially useful when you're looking for a house because it warns you ahead of time that the house you're looking for is close. With businesses, I always just look for the sign, so it isnt as important.
All the other problems sound pretty strange ... Hopefully the 2nd dealership will be able to fix it up for you!!!

Xorg

Here is the bottom line:

Acura's dealer and service network SUCKS.

It's horrid.

The worst among any "luxury" car make.

I got ten times better customer service when I owned a Jeep.

My Saab dealer treats me like a king compared to my experiences with Acura dealerships.

Really - it's that bad.

Biker_RENAMED

I have used the navigation system in my 02 TL-S and my 03 TL-S fairly frequently, with only two problems. Once the screen locked up and I had to shut the engine off and restart it, which cured the problem. Another time the vocal directions said that my destination was on the right, when it was on the left. Otherwise it's worked perfectly. Good luck getting yours fixed. Try another dealer as suggested.

Monte TLS,MAX

We dont use ours in our Maxima or TLS because pretty much we know were we are going(we kind of thought it was a neat gadget at the time). Kind of wish I would have saved that money now.

bigman

too bad all of you guys dont have a park avenue acura near by. They are awesome and really take care of you.

T Ho

And, you've been to every single one?

My suggestion is to find another dealer. I'm guessing that something is wrong with the hardware (not the screen). I don't have Navi, so I've no experience with it.

A little tidbit- back a few years ago, GPS signal accuracy was "de-classified," so to speak, so that everyone got the accuracy that the military always had (within 6 ft). After 9/11, some of the "slop" has been put back into the system for consumer/commercial use. FYI.

Todd

SinnedTL

Ill give you a suggestion, TRY CERRITOS ACURA, they are very strict about aftermarket parts, but when it comes to fixing warranties, they know their ****, and they fix it right the first time...I yelled at them before about my aftermarket stuff but I keep coming back to them because they can fix those stuff very well and are willing to fix little stuff also...TRUST ME!

doopstr

Well the navi in my '02 is pretty good.

One thing that drives me crazy is entering the address and trying to guess if the car is really going to take you to the right place.

Example, type in something like 285 Route 1.
Well maybe it doesn't know Route 1. How about US. Highway Route 1. No that's not it, Rt 1. Ahh maybe that's it and maybe its not.

One thing that pissed me off the other day was I told it an address on Church Street in Hamilton NJ (because it doesn't know what Yardville is). Turns out there are two Church streets about 2 miles apart. It took me to the wrong one. I still don't know what happened there. I drove to the other church street and the map said "church street". I wonder how to resolve that since they are both in the same town.

I'd say its about 80% good. It will usually have the street number wrong on backroads. Example, you are in front of house 20 and it tells you its 26. It thinks my house number is 86 (its 19) there isn't even an 86 on my street. Oh and try to tell the navi to take you to 19. nope.

jbs221

Thanks very much for all the feedback. I know from the get-go that navi systems can be quirky, but they can also be a godsend when you need to find something. I just made a drive from LA ot Las Vegas and noted at least three major flaws during the drive. There may have been more but you actually need to drive the car at high speed :wow: Based on the very limited amount of problems posted I confim that the system IS a good one, I just have a lemon. Now if they'll only fix it before I have to go to small claims court.
Joe in LA (or at least for now LV)

wayneg

Is your rear window tinted? We have had some problems with signal degradation due to the use of metallic window tint. the screen issue does sound like possible hardware problem. Many of the wrong address issues are software related- the disc may just have sligtly incorrect info. I believe Acura purchases this info from third party vendors and trys to get the most up to date it can- but it doesn't produce this info. As for exact location, you can go into the options menu and manually correct your location if you want to make sure it is as close as possible. Here in the NYC suburbs, my navi will often make a mistake when 2 roads are right together, but will correct after a short while.

greenpelikan

I wouldn't go to another Acura Dealership for Service. Stick with the dealership you purchased the car at and hold them responsible. It is always beneficial to get the Sales Dept. involved.

Also, have you contacted Acura Customer Care to complain? If you haven't you really need to. You can also escalate this problem to the District Manager of Parts and Service. I am almost sure his name is Rick Kramer, 800.382.2238

Good luck....and keep us posted.

jbs221

Thanks again for the further comments. I logged at least 3 NAV weirdities on my trip to LV and will be making an appt with the service mgr. I'll update on how I'm treated this time.
Joe

jbs221

Update:
They had the car all day Friday (8/2) and essentially jacked off for the day. I'm waiting to hear from them on Monday with the possibility we can start changing hardware. We'll see.

blulegend

When I first bought my car, I had a messed up trunk unit. It would constantly reset at the end of a route calculation. Just resets back to the welcome globe. Very annoying and very inconsistent. After resetting the unit to no avail, they glady changed the trunk unit for me per the "navigation hotline's" suggestion. It has worked almost flawlessly ever since. One other time after the swap, it asked me for the anti-theft code after stopping the car for only 15 minutes at my buddy's house. Weird. I did all this at Tustin Acura where I bought the car. The swap came about 1-2 weeks after I got it (forgot exactly).

Right now, it's not working again because my disc got scratched somehow and two dealers I took it to won't replace it under warranty. It only works sometimes really slowly, and other times it will simply show show a disc read error after it gives up.

You will probably need to change out the trunk unit first. This may correct your screen problem too since the calibration may just be off on yours.

Good luck.

FTM-1

I have had no problems sofar with my NAV in the 2 & a half years with the car. I don't always use the NAV for directions but I always have the screen on to display the location of the car.

ktl

I've observed some problems on my Navigation unit (03'TL):

1) In the night displya mode, sometimes there are some horizontal dark line scrolling up and down.

2) When driving in a straight road, the display is slanted to the left (about 10 degrees). The display becomes straightly up and down again after the signal from the satallites is updated. But then it will be slanted.

3) In some places, the position of the car on the map lags behind its real posiiton (as much as about 20 feet) .

I also want to know the experiences from others. I feel I get more sensitive to the shortcomings of the Navi system as I use it more. Anyway, I will as the dealship to fix the problem during next service.

KTL

edgalang

Question: Why is the Acura symbol slanted when I'm going straight?

Answer: The adjustable internal compass got screwed up. Perhaps there is some magnetic field that is making north...NOT north...get it?

Solution: You can easily correct that in the setup menu. I sometimes do it in stop and go traffic...but you have to be going less than 5 miles an hour before it'll even let you touch the screen for adjustment. You can also go the battery route. By disconecting power to the unit (removing battery) it'll try to automatically detect where NORTH is when it first turns on.

Quick Experiment: Enter the setup screen and purposely screw it up. When you turn on your car again, it should be ok...if not disconnect the battery or manually adjust the setting back.



Question: Why is my touch screen bad? I press one key and it'll activate another.

Answer: Because the touch screen is not really a touch screen. Don't be fooled. The heat of your finger or how hard you press the screen has NOTHING to do with how the NAV screen works. The reason why it glitches sometimes is becuase the IR lights that goes across the screen in a grid is being blinded. The grid is comming from the edges of the screen behind the red plastic and is soo close to the screen that when you touch it, you "think" that it is touch screen.

Solution: Close your moon roof. Make sure that direct sunlight does not blind the IR grid.

Quick Experiment: Roll up a piece of paper. Use it like you would your finger. That should prove that it has nothing to do with either heat or the amount of force to "push" the buttons.



Question: Why is my NAV unit not DEAD ON the address?

Answer: Well...because it is a commercial unit. The topic was talked about before, but I believe our units can only be as accurate as a tennis court while military units can be as accurate as 3 inches. A couple of years ago commercial units were only as accurate as a football field. That is why non military GPS units was only usefull in boats at the time.

If you have tints you reduce your signal. I personally have tints on mine and it still works...but I'm almost positive that it reduces my signal quality.

Solution: Don't tint and/or replace/relocate the antennae (located underneath the padding...right above the DVD unit) with a better unit. A common mistake I did loong ago was put a CD case holder right on the padding itself (thinking that the antennae was located on the other side) and it reduced my signal quality even worse. You can locate the antennae by reaching in the back of the DVD unit and follow the cable (should be the single black wire on the right side if you are looking at it from the front).

Quick experiment: Cover the back with aluminum foil. (I did) :p
And see the signal go from worse...to nothing.



Question: Why is the NAV unit telling me to go the WRONG direction?

Answer: Because it is not updated. I have version 2.03 and two MAJOR highway onramps where I live is wrong. A few years ago the freeway was rebuild for efficiency (580-80 and 880-980) and everytime I pass through that section...it'll tell me to go the opposite direction.

Solution: Buy the latest DVD disc.

fla-tls

Here's some food for thought on three of the problems you mentioned. If you have more that I missed - I'm sorry.

North not pointing straight up, Premature announcement of destination / shows you on side road:

I agree somewhat with edgalang in that the compass could be out of adjustment. Anyone who's had a car with an onboard compass know you have to adjust them.

I would recommend using the Location Correction feature in the software to correct your navi's minor location problems. When you see the navi's not showing you in the correct location, do the following:

a. You have to be stopped
b. Select Setup->Others->Location correction.
c. Move the mouse to your actual location and press it in.
d. Use the rotation buttons to correct your angle (i.e. north is up)

If you get a premature "Destination." Stop - do the above procedure, and then carry on with your driving.

I've done this several times - and it's helped a lot.

Another thing you may want to try (if the above doesn't work) is to check the adjustment of the navi's yaw rate sensor. It's the sensor that determines just how hard you're turning, so that you are correctly oriented on the map. You can asjust it yourself - here's how to do it.

a. Access the service mode in your navi software by pressing and holding the following buttons in quick (fraction of a second) succession - Menu-Map/Guide-Cancel (in that order). Hold them down, and within a few seconds the green maintenance screen will show up. (Be very careful while using the navi in maintenance mode. You can screw up the unit if you don't know what you're doing.)
b. Hit the yaw rate button, and select tuning.
c. MAKE A NOTE OF THE INITIAL SETTINGS!
d. Take the car out to an open parking lot (with navi NOT in maintenance mode), make sample turns, and compare the number of degrees the navi unit thought you turned - to what you actually turned. I would recommending adjusting in increments of 0.2 degrees - and then going back 0.1 degrees if the last adjustment was too much.
e. You have to select which setting you want (CW or CCW), and adjust up or down.

I'm running -1 degree, both CW and CCW. It's pretty close, but could use some fine tuning.

It selects left when pressing right:

edgalang sounds like he knows what he's saying here. If it is the case that our navi does not use IR beams (and I honestly don't know if it does or not), a general rule for all touch screens is to clean the screen with an appropriate cleaner (one that doesn't build up static). I have seen Palm handhelds rendered useless, simply because the owner did not clean the screen correctly (which is fixed once you clean the screen the right way). I would recommend you use touchscreen cleaner to be safe. This is not absolutly necessary - I use a multi-purpose spray (like Glass Plus). Always use ONLY a soft 100% cotton towel/rag to clean the screen - NO PAPER TOWELS! The screen is very easy to scratch - and very hard (if not impossible) to repair.

If you do any of what I write about above - start a new thread and tell us what your experiences were. Then we'll all benefit from it.

jbs221

Your #2 is exactly like one of my problems. I hope you have more success than I have, getting it serviced.
Joe in LA

jbs221

I'm getting a new contoller unit. I'll report when it arrives and they install it how much that fixes. Wish me luck.
Oh BTW if you have 2.05 and the lady-voice misses words when she talks or is garbled, that is A KNOWN BUG, report it if you have it, when the next version comes out, of course.

jbs221

Well I got the new unit today. It's a mixed bag. It is better than it was, it tilts LESS but still tilts. A NEW bug has risen, the car icon is consistantly 1 full block behind it's actual position, and I've pulled over and location corrected it twice. There's more to do. :-(
Joe in LA

jbs221

I got a call today from a lady doing follow up on the service I received from SM Acura. Well, let me tell you, I told her the WHOLE story. She was very upset and told me that she will help me get all my problems resolved. We'll see if she can. I'm praying.
Joe in LA

jbs221

I finally have some good news. I was contacted by an Acura Regional Mgr and have an appt. to meet him at Keys Acura in Van Nuys where I will show him my problems and he'll be working with them to fix it. I'll get a loaner while they work on it. Because of our schedule conflicts this will occure in late Sept. but that's fine with me. He was very courteous and understanding. I'm starting to feel better. We'll see how this turns out.

rominl

glad to hear that man, hope everything works out fine

jbs221

Well today was the day to meet Rick Kramer (Reg. Mgr.) and show him my Navi problems. We met this morning at Keyes Acura in Van Nuys, CA. He was very cordial and apologetic that it's taken this long to resolve the problem. We went for a test drive and the car cooperated, ie. it was messing up like it always does in the Navi. He told me he's been working on Navi a lot for Acura lately and my car was performing way off the norm. As arranged he took my car and put me into a renter. He ALSO offered to fix the gash in my bumper gratis! and even did a walk around to see if it needed other fixing! This was very nice and finally started making me feel like I had a luxury car and not just another Chevy!!! BTW when I arrived at Enterprise they put me in a brand new loaded Volvo S40. A far better vehicle than the beat up Corolla from the last time! All insurance was covered too. Rick did tell me to get any car I wanted (I did ask for an NSX but they were all out of their NSX loaners at Keyes! ;-) ) and the Enterprise lady pointed me to the Volvo before I even said anything.
Now if they can just fix the Navi I will be back to being a happy camper, I hope they can!

Joe in LA