binary_10essee

Yesterday evening I began having trouble starting my '00 TL. It was sudden -- it had never acted that way until late yesterday.

We drove about 10 miles, got out of the car for a while, and when I started it back up, it cranked slowly. It dragged like hell. However, it still started after a couple seconds. We left, stopped at a store, came out about 10 minutes later -- same thing. We stopped at another store -- same thing.

I got in my car this morning, and while it didn't really drag much, it sounded ever so slightly weak. But it still started, regardless. When I got to work a few minutes ago, which is about a 25 mile drive, I turned the car off, waited a minute, and tried it again. It wasn't as bad as last night, but it still had some drag to it (but started up almost as quickly as it should).

I'm not sure how old the battery is. It was in there when I got the car 3 1/2 months ago. While there is a bit of corrosion on the positive terminal, I cleaned most of it up a while back when I installed an HID kit. It used to be A LOT worse, yet I still never had a problem starting it.

Could it be the battery? Or maybe a heat-soaked starter? What would be a good place to begin troubleshooting?

NBP04TL4ME

You said you cleaned up "most of it" referring to the corrosion. I would check it again and make sure you get all of it cleaned up this time. I would then go to Autozone and get your batter tested. You may have a bad or dying cell.

binary_10essee

Well, considering the corrosion was caked on (couldn't see the terminal itself) and now I can see the terminal, I don't imagine it would cause the issue, since it didn't even have that problem when it was horribly corroded. But then again, you never know!

Can AutoZone test for a bad/dead cell? I was looking into it last night, and a lot of people were saying they can't. But I also didn't look at how old the readings were.

Nicks2001tl

After cleaning the terminals also lube the posts with a spray battery terminal lube, it costs about a buck at the counter of your local auto parts store.


Autozone, Batteries and Bulbs, Advanced Auto will tell you exactly what`s the matter with your battery, starter or alternator.


Also check the pos. and neg, battery cables. Follow them to were they ground and look for corrosion or fray. Relatively easy and inexpensive to replace if they are the problem.

binary_10essee

Cool, I appreciate it. I'm at work right now, but I'll check the grounds when I step out in a bit. If everything appears to be in order there, I'll probably stop by AutoZone this afternoon. I'll come back with an update when I figure it out!

3.2TLc

Yeah, sounds like the battery....maybe bad connections to it or the starter. Try a known good battery.

Our TL's ground cables are a known common problem as they get older. Go to any auto parts store and have them load test the electrical system. They will be able to tell ya if it's a bad battery or possibly the alternator isn't charging it. The starter appears as though it's trying it's best, by still cranking.

binary_10essee

Yeah, I understand that. When I had the '04 Impala the starter went out, and it started out very similar (though somewhat different, too) to what I'm experiencing with the TL.

I'll ask them about a load test on the electrical system and see where that gets me.

01tl4tl

you live in America right? its free testing at any major parts store, or `batteries plus` store if in your town
Clean the terminals means use hot water with baking soda to neutralize the ACID
that's formed on the post and cable end, rinse well with clean water
Now its safe to touch!!

Then remove the cables from post, negative first off last on, and clean both inside the terminal on cable and the outside of post on battery with $1 specialized wire brush tool, sandpaper or similar tool until shiny metal is seen
Bare metal contact is what you desire

Corrosion and recurring crud comes from battery acid leaking from batt vent, many are placed where that gas is attracted to terminals and cables
Crud will eat its way down inside the cables too, put the end of cable into a cup of that hot water with baking soda- that will do a decent cleaning job

The good machine tester will tell if excess resistance in the cables too
No matter how strong a battery, if the cables wont let the juice thru...

to test the battery AFTER terminal clean, it needs to be charged, drive 20-30 minutes freeway cruise without use of any electrical- no headlights or cabin fan on high!
let all the power of the alternator go to recharging the battery after starting the car (about 15 minutes drive with batt in good condition, to replace what was used just to start car, starter draws a lot of power all at once)

those 10 minute trips are no favor to your electrical system~

The parts store hooks up a simple machine that can simulate load on battery- plus you turn on headlights- to see how well the battery takes a dead load and recovers from it.
If its bad the needle flat lines when load applied
It detects bad cell by virtue of not enough voltage in batt

if that battery is more than 3 years old there is a very good chance its dead.
Will also cause numerous strange running problems and even false codes!

01tl4tl

my battery went suddenly, one night it was very slow to start, asked wife and she remembered it was slow starting last few days (doh!)

NBP04TL4ME

3.2TLc

Ha, hah......
the dear beloved wifeys sometimes come to the rescue as we get older and wanna get things started.

NBP04TL4ME

I hear ya!

binary_10essee

I really don't know that it'd be the starter. All day today and yesterday evening it's been starting mostly normally. It still tends to drag just a bit, but not near as bad as when I initially posted this. I plan on stopping by AutoZone this evening to have some tests done, just to be sure.

NBP04TL4ME

Keep us posted! Please

01tl4tl

wow- next place I would have driven would be the parts store to get system ckd out!
If it is the battery not holding a charge, making the alternator run full blast- full time to operate the car = death to alternator

binary_10essee

While I haven't been able to get to the parts store yet, it still drags a bit when starting. It still isn't as bad as the first day, but it still happens any time I try to start it. It seems to get worse when I start it while the engine is still warm. Starting in the AM for work isn't so bad, starting 5-10 minutes after turning it off is a little worse.

3.2TLc

Yeah, as 01tl4tl suggested..... get the charging/starting system checked out ASAP.....otherwise ya may be left stranded with a towing bill. It's better to know just for the peace of mind. If the electricals check out, then have the fuel pressure checked.

binary_10essee

UPDATE:

I took the TL to a parts store this weekend. They tested the alternator -- it's good. However, while the car was off, they tried to do a load test on the battery. Doing so, the tester said the battery would need to be charged before it can perform the test.

Well, later on I used a multimeter to check the battery. I get about 14V while the car is running. However, when I check it while the car is off:

10V

Starting is becoming more difficult, slowly but surely. It was definitely hard to crank this mmorning -- after being off for about 10 hours.

I used baking soda and water. It ate away practically every bit of the corrosion on the positive terminal. However, the bolt that holds the positive clamp on is rounded on the tip of the bolt head. I was afraid to use a socket because I didn't want to strip it further. But I believe I'll be getting a new clamp and cable anyhow because the corrosion is on the end of the cable, too.

Is it probably the battery that's bad because of the low voltage?

Btw, the battery has a sticker -- "1/11". I'm assuming that's a date (January 2011), which is over 3 years old. The CCA on it is 640.

3.2TLc

For peace of mind ...... buy a new battery !!!
Otherwise ya risk getting stranded or killing the car's alternator.

When ya replace the battery, get new cables and terminal connectors. The ground's are critical for the electrical system to function properly. This is all basic common stuff with older cars, especially power hungry luxury TL's.

01tl4tl

14v running is great and means alt is working properly right now
10 static is bad, turn on the headlights and it would plummet to nothing
A new battery is your fix!

3 years is about average on batteries these days, the TL is hot under-hood, many ziners remove the cover on batt box, which is supposed to insulate from temp extremes, but also closes any escape path for heat = some remove that by desire, others by buying a taller battery, there are 2 sizes the TL accepts
650 CCA is plenty for starting and storage capacity of the battery

getting the crud off the exterior of terminal is just a start = for your safety = its ACID = BAD NEWS to human skin etc!!
the actual cleaning of them requires removal from battery and wire brush till you expose bare metal

At this point/age of car it really is wise to invest in new battery cables, and the extra set of 5 ground wires from frame to engine (acura sells kit ~$25) or ck the diy section for make your own

binary_10essee

I was thinking I may need to go that route. At this point I feel that it's necessary to do so, so I'll pick up the parts ASAP. I'll update the thread once it's resolved. Thanks for all the help!

01tl4tl

a small set of vise grips are the battery techs best friend
my last battery lasted 2 years 8 months, it had 2 year full replacement warranty
so that was a moot point

I ask for a BLEM if they have any, a batt with broken external mount tab- which we don't use, can be had for half of list price and comes with 90 day warranty
If its built wrong or has a bad part it will show up in that time period

My suggestion is ck Batteries Plus Bulbs in your town - a good battery at a decent price
They also fully charge all car batts before sale on a giant Battery Tender, unlike big stores where a batt may sit for months before sale and use, slowly draining itself during that time

binary_10essee

Alright, thanks. I know where a local Batteries + Bulbs store is so I may check them out this evening after work. I don't mind buying a battery. And I've also read about vise grips to disconnect the positive terminal. HOW? I didn't find anything that really discussed HOW to use them to remove the cable from the battery?

3.2TLc

If a 6 pt socket or box wrench won't fit due to the retaining hardware being rounded or corroded, then as a last resort......a pair of locking vise grips will remove the clamp's bolt as 01tl4tl previously suggested.

Just lock the jaws on the bolt's retaining nut, and turn CCW to remove it.

binary_10essee

Ah, I see. That makes sense. Well, it's just the head of the bolt on the terminal clamp. However, I can't fit a wrench over it enough to grip the rest of the bolt. But due to all the corrosion, and I don't know how long it was there before I got the car, I'm wondering if the corrosion weakened the metal on the bolt, which is why it won't turn as it should.

Also, I noticed the other day that there's a little silver tab-like piece of metal between the battery post and the terminal clamp. I think someone may have rigged it, so to speak, in order to make contact. Maybe the battery is entirely incorrect. I'll post a pic of it -- just a minute.

binary_10essee

This is the positive terminal on the battery. Still really dirty, but baking soda ate the majority of the corrosion away -- couldn't really even see the post/clamp before that. See the little metal tab-like piece? Normal?

3.2TLc

Nothing shown in the above pic looks normal or even close, IMO. Replace the battery and cables to it !!!

I'd just either cut the battery's cable or unbolt the red positive cable's lead at it's other end source. With all that corrosion shit and rigging crap, start fresh with a new cables and clamps. Also, replace the main black negative ground cable to the tranny housing while you're at it. Common issue !!!

Do the job right with a new battery and cables. Then things will be normal and troublefree.

binary_10essee

That's what I like, job done right! Is the main black negative ground a simple job? Just trying to figure out what kind of time I'd be looking at to do the job. I don't mind doing it, just like to have the time frame planned as much as I can.

3.2TLc

Ya can purchase the entire "OEM" ground wire kit with all the wires and connections already made up.....or ya can faricate your own by using readily available components from your local auto parts store. Not a hard job, maybe less than an hour.

Study the situation and if ya have a spare car......take the old removed parts with ya to the parts store, so they can match everything up for ya. Battery and terminal cables together for less than $150 + about one hour "DIY". Search for other previous posted threads on doing this task if in doubt.

binary_10essee

That's probably all I need to know. I'll do some research here, and I'll look at the car and the parts, get a good idea and understanding together. I'll be back if I need any help with it. Thanks!

01tl4tl

I particularly like the wire around the handle, is that the battery hold down?
there is supposed to be a simple rod system for the hold down- across the middle of batt
the store will have one or stop at any auto parts store

Don't worry about cleaning or getting the cable loose- I use Batteries Plus because they do ALL the work on install including cleaning and dipping the cable ends into a cup of hot water/baking soda

reminder to ask if they have a BLEM in your size = save money here to spend on new cables over there!

note: that tab in connector is NOT stock, when someone could not get the connector tight....

Be a pal to the installer and shoot wd40 or similar on the threads now, and again before you head over to batt store

binary_10essee

I ended up replacing the battery -- PROBLEM SOLVED.

I left work today and I stopped at a gas statiom, come out 5 minutes later, no start. Waited a few minutes, tried again -- almost zero crank, terrible clicking. A guy I know who lives around the corner from the store brought his portable jumper box -- fired right up!

Went to AutoZone. I asked those nitwits to help due to my previously unsuccessful attempts to remove the positive terminal. Guy tried to tell me he was too busy -- I was one of 2 customers, and they had 4 employees working. LoL.

I eventually broke the terminal off, bought a battery, cables and new terminal clamps -- and they gave me a 10% discount. Plugged everything in -- starts like a dream.

EDIT:

The old battery had 640 CCA. The new one has 700.

That red wire by the battery? The rod tie-down is there. The red wire, if I'm not mistaken, runs to the DVD player behind the armrest in the back seat. Previous owner had a DVD player + 2 headrests with monitors installed. One monitor works, the other doesn't. And the DVD player doesn't power on. I realized recently that the red wire was disconnected -- but I really don't need it.

NBP04TL4ME

Glad you got it sorted out.

3.2TLc

Yeah, sometimes the basic simple stuff is overlooked.