Altima 3.5SE VS Type-S
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Altima 3.5SE VS Type-S
I just test drove the 3.5SE and the following is a comparison between it, Accord EX V6 and TL Type-S (Camry is for old folks so it's not included.)
Test Cars:
01 Honda Accord V6 EX, leather, $31800CDN ($20800US)
02 Acura TL Type-S, $41000CDN ($26800US)
02 Nissan Altima 3.5SE, $33800CDN ($22091US)
Exterior Design:
Both Accord and TL has an outdate design. Athough both went through resfreshing this model year, and the TL looks not bad with the body kit on, I still prefer the new refreshing look of Altima. Some may say the Altima has a bland nose and big ass. But to me it's very European and GS400ish, very sporty but definitely need spoiler on the trunk. Both TL and 3.5SE has 17" wheels while Accord only has 15" and ugly ones to boot. I prefer the TL's 17s design over the bland one from 3.5SE but each fit their own car very well.
Winner: 3.5SE
Exterior Fit and Finish:
Check through the paint and gaps. All 3 are pretty close. But being the new kid on the block, the Altima has tighter gaps but uneven at places like around the doors. While Accord and TL has very even gap all around. Although slightly larger than Altima's. Paint is also the same but Altima offers more choices.
Winner: All 3
Performance:
Accord: 200HP 192lb and 4 Speed Automatic
TL-S: 260HP 232lb and 5 Speed Sport Shift
3.5SE: 240HP 246lb and 4 Speed Gated Automatic
Although 3.5SE has 40 more HP and 54 more lb of torque, I started to wonder if Nissan is misquoting the numbers again. It is faster than the Accord but not by much. I guess the wider tire takes more power to drive them. I left TCS on for all 3 vechicle and Accord and TL-S lets me know when it's enaged. But the 3.5SE either doesn't tell me that it's engaged TCS or no matter how I push I can't squeak the tires. 3.5SE just doesn't pin me to the seat like I thought it would. All 3 engines are very quiet, you hardly know it's started from inside OR outside. Accord's engine is the loudest of the 3. Transmission wise, nothing can beat a 5 speed. TL's sportshift hands down is the best of the 3 although a bit rough. Atlima's 4 speed is smooth but puts me to sleep. I guess the 5 speed manual will be a bit better. Accord's 4 speed is pretty normal for a Japanese car. I also don't know what to say about this drive-by-wire technology in the 3.5SE. To me it feels somewhat disconnected, like driving turbo, it'll be 1/2 a second before it kicks in. Does anybody else feels that?
Winner: TL-S
Handling:
Accord's handling is good for it's size. But comparing to the other 2, it's the worst. Good for Grandma and Grandpa but not for me. You can put mods on it to make it better but why bother. TL-S improves upon the TL with stiffer springs. It still rolls a bit on turns but a set of Comptech sways will take care of that. But that will also take $600 out of your wallet. Now to the good part, 3.5SE's handling ROCKS! For a car of it's size and weight, I don't feel any rolling or floating going on. It's sure-footed and turns on a dime. The suspension is sporty yet quiet. I take it to my favorite highway rough spot and I don't feel a single bump just like the TL-S. It's the biggest car I drove with the sportness of a Civic and comfortness of big old Buick. Nissan did a GREAT job here.
Winner: 3.5SE
Interior:
Now to the most talk about part. Interior design for all 3 vehicle is great. TL takes the old classic gracious look and 3.5SE takes the ultra modern contemporary style. Accord drops in somewhere in between. All have a good layout and everything is easy to get at. Both TL and 3.5SE use more hard plastic than I like them to be.
TL use it only on the dash - under the windshield area. Other than that, I have no beef with the TL
On the otherhand, "Ocean of Plastic" I heard from one board IS a proper term to describe the 3.5SE. It's hard plastic everywhere, doors, dash, center console. Even my good old 96 Civic has better soft padded interior than the 3.5SE. I guess using hard plastic cut cost a lot and we may see more if in new cars. (Side note: 01 Civic uses a lot of hard plastic as well, I hope this is not a trend the auto makers are picking up). The center console/armrest should be covered with leather not hard plastic. The door handles is a direct rip off from the Maxima and it doesn't fit very well here. I bet the designers must have a nasty battle with the cost cutting people over this one.
Also in my opionion, some chrome will definitely make the SE shine. Door handle should be chrome than the plastic metal color. So should the shift gate.
Worst of all, the fit and finish does not match any other car in this price range. The fuel door switch on the floor is just slipped through a hole cut in the carpet. I would like to see how much dirt and crap that hole can collect over the year. Nissan better fix that or get rid of the corrosion warranty. It will be a big problem to come. There's some gaps where the center console meet the carpet, although my test car's console didn't rock. But with gaps like that, it will eventually will. Again, we may see this on a Civic but not in this class of car. The leather finish is not as nice as the Max or TL but on par with the Accord. Thin and wrinkle compare to Thick and tight on the Max. The chirping turn signal also take some getting used to.
Accord in my opioion has the best interior of the 3. Layout is great. Leather is nice. Doors are pure luxo. And the dash is sporty and NO hard plastic above the waist. All soft calming soft plastic. It's very easy on the eyes. The shifter though is too 80's-ish. They should change it on the next model.
Winner: Accord with TL a close second.
Audio/Noise:
150W Bose on the 3.5SE is the best I ever heard (for a stock unit). TL should be embrassed with it's own Bose 5 speaker system. It sounds worse that my 4 speaker Civic. Accord's 6 speaker is a bit better than the TL's. And at least it's easy to rip it out and slap in a new one.
But the car with the best audio also has the worst road noise. Although the engine is ultra quiet in idle, when rushed, it gives out a growl that both sounds good and bad. It sound macho but feels like there's almost no sound proving equipment is used between the engine and the cabin. I loved the growl but more in a TL's slightly muted way. Road noise is also very adbundant in the 3.5SE, at first I thought a door was not close or a window was not rolled up. Both me an my saleman look around but everything seems ok. The sunroof is not opened but the slider is, so he closed it immediately. It helps but it's still a bit on the noisy side.
Both Accord and TL has a bery quiet cabin. I guess some of it may be due to better fit and finish as well.
Winner: TL
Other stuff:
Altima's driving position is best of the 3. The 8 way power seat can adjust to any driver. The telescop steering wheel is a plus although I'm only 5'8". I can find a easy position very quickly. Accord on the other hand is not bad but it get some getting used to. All TL is missing is the telescope wheel on a otherwise very customizable driving position. Seat memory helps too if there's more than 1 driver.
Altima also have a bigger cabin and trunk. And the rear seat folds down unlike the TL. And the comfort level of all 3 cars are about the same. But if you have a lot of 5'10"+ clients you have to take lunch to like I do, get the Altima. Just like the Max, it has sedan back seat but minivan comfort. Lots of leg room.
The Final Verdict:
If you got money to throw around, get the TL Type-S. It's a complete almost flawless package.
If you don't mind the odd exterior, get the Maxima. It's cheaper than TL Type-S, sportier, has 6 speed and 255HP on tap and IMO, it's the car with the best looking interior anywhere, quality and design.
But if you're on a budget like me and would love to drive a car with performance of the 2 car above, get an Altima. Like Nissan's CEO said, he's not building a car for everybody. Don't like the interior, buy a Maxima or go somewhere else.
And I'll pity the fool who buys and Accord or Camry. Leave those for the people in the old folks home.
That's my $0.02.
Footnote:
As of this writing, many of the dealships in the cities (Calgary, AB) is having a waiting list on V6 Altimas. Depends on color and opitons, the waiting period is up to 8 weeks.
US pricing of the Altima is very outragous. $29KUS for a loaded Altima is not right. At that price, everyone in the US should just buy the cheaper Maxima or spend $2K more for TL-S. And free up more V6s for us poorer Canadians.
Test Cars:
01 Honda Accord V6 EX, leather, $31800CDN ($20800US)
02 Acura TL Type-S, $41000CDN ($26800US)
02 Nissan Altima 3.5SE, $33800CDN ($22091US)
Exterior Design:
Both Accord and TL has an outdate design. Athough both went through resfreshing this model year, and the TL looks not bad with the body kit on, I still prefer the new refreshing look of Altima. Some may say the Altima has a bland nose and big ass. But to me it's very European and GS400ish, very sporty but definitely need spoiler on the trunk. Both TL and 3.5SE has 17" wheels while Accord only has 15" and ugly ones to boot. I prefer the TL's 17s design over the bland one from 3.5SE but each fit their own car very well.
Winner: 3.5SE
Exterior Fit and Finish:
Check through the paint and gaps. All 3 are pretty close. But being the new kid on the block, the Altima has tighter gaps but uneven at places like around the doors. While Accord and TL has very even gap all around. Although slightly larger than Altima's. Paint is also the same but Altima offers more choices.
Winner: All 3
Performance:
Accord: 200HP 192lb and 4 Speed Automatic
TL-S: 260HP 232lb and 5 Speed Sport Shift
3.5SE: 240HP 246lb and 4 Speed Gated Automatic
Although 3.5SE has 40 more HP and 54 more lb of torque, I started to wonder if Nissan is misquoting the numbers again. It is faster than the Accord but not by much. I guess the wider tire takes more power to drive them. I left TCS on for all 3 vechicle and Accord and TL-S lets me know when it's enaged. But the 3.5SE either doesn't tell me that it's engaged TCS or no matter how I push I can't squeak the tires. 3.5SE just doesn't pin me to the seat like I thought it would. All 3 engines are very quiet, you hardly know it's started from inside OR outside. Accord's engine is the loudest of the 3. Transmission wise, nothing can beat a 5 speed. TL's sportshift hands down is the best of the 3 although a bit rough. Atlima's 4 speed is smooth but puts me to sleep. I guess the 5 speed manual will be a bit better. Accord's 4 speed is pretty normal for a Japanese car. I also don't know what to say about this drive-by-wire technology in the 3.5SE. To me it feels somewhat disconnected, like driving turbo, it'll be 1/2 a second before it kicks in. Does anybody else feels that?
Winner: TL-S
Handling:
Accord's handling is good for it's size. But comparing to the other 2, it's the worst. Good for Grandma and Grandpa but not for me. You can put mods on it to make it better but why bother. TL-S improves upon the TL with stiffer springs. It still rolls a bit on turns but a set of Comptech sways will take care of that. But that will also take $600 out of your wallet. Now to the good part, 3.5SE's handling ROCKS! For a car of it's size and weight, I don't feel any rolling or floating going on. It's sure-footed and turns on a dime. The suspension is sporty yet quiet. I take it to my favorite highway rough spot and I don't feel a single bump just like the TL-S. It's the biggest car I drove with the sportness of a Civic and comfortness of big old Buick. Nissan did a GREAT job here.
Winner: 3.5SE
Interior:
Now to the most talk about part. Interior design for all 3 vehicle is great. TL takes the old classic gracious look and 3.5SE takes the ultra modern contemporary style. Accord drops in somewhere in between. All have a good layout and everything is easy to get at. Both TL and 3.5SE use more hard plastic than I like them to be.
TL use it only on the dash - under the windshield area. Other than that, I have no beef with the TL
On the otherhand, "Ocean of Plastic" I heard from one board IS a proper term to describe the 3.5SE. It's hard plastic everywhere, doors, dash, center console. Even my good old 96 Civic has better soft padded interior than the 3.5SE. I guess using hard plastic cut cost a lot and we may see more if in new cars. (Side note: 01 Civic uses a lot of hard plastic as well, I hope this is not a trend the auto makers are picking up). The center console/armrest should be covered with leather not hard plastic. The door handles is a direct rip off from the Maxima and it doesn't fit very well here. I bet the designers must have a nasty battle with the cost cutting people over this one.
Also in my opionion, some chrome will definitely make the SE shine. Door handle should be chrome than the plastic metal color. So should the shift gate.
Worst of all, the fit and finish does not match any other car in this price range. The fuel door switch on the floor is just slipped through a hole cut in the carpet. I would like to see how much dirt and crap that hole can collect over the year. Nissan better fix that or get rid of the corrosion warranty. It will be a big problem to come. There's some gaps where the center console meet the carpet, although my test car's console didn't rock. But with gaps like that, it will eventually will. Again, we may see this on a Civic but not in this class of car. The leather finish is not as nice as the Max or TL but on par with the Accord. Thin and wrinkle compare to Thick and tight on the Max. The chirping turn signal also take some getting used to.
Accord in my opioion has the best interior of the 3. Layout is great. Leather is nice. Doors are pure luxo. And the dash is sporty and NO hard plastic above the waist. All soft calming soft plastic. It's very easy on the eyes. The shifter though is too 80's-ish. They should change it on the next model.
Winner: Accord with TL a close second.
Audio/Noise:
150W Bose on the 3.5SE is the best I ever heard (for a stock unit). TL should be embrassed with it's own Bose 5 speaker system. It sounds worse that my 4 speaker Civic. Accord's 6 speaker is a bit better than the TL's. And at least it's easy to rip it out and slap in a new one.
But the car with the best audio also has the worst road noise. Although the engine is ultra quiet in idle, when rushed, it gives out a growl that both sounds good and bad. It sound macho but feels like there's almost no sound proving equipment is used between the engine and the cabin. I loved the growl but more in a TL's slightly muted way. Road noise is also very adbundant in the 3.5SE, at first I thought a door was not close or a window was not rolled up. Both me an my saleman look around but everything seems ok. The sunroof is not opened but the slider is, so he closed it immediately. It helps but it's still a bit on the noisy side.
Both Accord and TL has a bery quiet cabin. I guess some of it may be due to better fit and finish as well.
Winner: TL
Other stuff:
Altima's driving position is best of the 3. The 8 way power seat can adjust to any driver. The telescop steering wheel is a plus although I'm only 5'8". I can find a easy position very quickly. Accord on the other hand is not bad but it get some getting used to. All TL is missing is the telescope wheel on a otherwise very customizable driving position. Seat memory helps too if there's more than 1 driver.
Altima also have a bigger cabin and trunk. And the rear seat folds down unlike the TL. And the comfort level of all 3 cars are about the same. But if you have a lot of 5'10"+ clients you have to take lunch to like I do, get the Altima. Just like the Max, it has sedan back seat but minivan comfort. Lots of leg room.
The Final Verdict:
If you got money to throw around, get the TL Type-S. It's a complete almost flawless package.
If you don't mind the odd exterior, get the Maxima. It's cheaper than TL Type-S, sportier, has 6 speed and 255HP on tap and IMO, it's the car with the best looking interior anywhere, quality and design.
But if you're on a budget like me and would love to drive a car with performance of the 2 car above, get an Altima. Like Nissan's CEO said, he's not building a car for everybody. Don't like the interior, buy a Maxima or go somewhere else.
And I'll pity the fool who buys and Accord or Camry. Leave those for the people in the old folks home.
That's my $0.02.
Footnote:
As of this writing, many of the dealships in the cities (Calgary, AB) is having a waiting list on V6 Altimas. Depends on color and opitons, the waiting period is up to 8 weeks.
US pricing of the Altima is very outragous. $29KUS for a loaded Altima is not right. At that price, everyone in the US should just buy the cheaper Maxima or spend $2K more for TL-S. And free up more V6s for us poorer Canadians.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Nice review.
About the "1/2 a second before it kicks in." I had a 96 maxima 4spd auto that did the same thing, and also in a 2001 I30T Infiniti with the 4spd auto. Its like a turbo has to spool up, and it then kicks hard. Sounds like a Nissan auto tranny issue, not the new fly by wire setup.
About the "1/2 a second before it kicks in." I had a 96 maxima 4spd auto that did the same thing, and also in a 2001 I30T Infiniti with the 4spd auto. Its like a turbo has to spool up, and it then kicks hard. Sounds like a Nissan auto tranny issue, not the new fly by wire setup.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,637
Likes: 118
From: Ontario, Canada
It was a great review, however I disagree with your advice that the Accords stereo is better than the TLs. I have both cars and the TLs stereo is MUCH better and I have no complaints with either system, and I love great sound.
Also, I saw a 3.5SE, in black and that is one nice car, however I would NEVER pay more for an Altima than an Accord.
I will always be a Honda man.
Also, I saw a 3.5SE, in black and that is one nice car, however I would NEVER pay more for an Altima than an Accord.
I will always be a Honda man.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
As a owner of a new Nissan and Acura, I can honestly say that the Nissan'S Quality is superior to the Acura. This is my third NEW Honda product ('86Civic, '91 Accord EX Cpe 5spd) and I am very disappointed in the manufacturing aspects of the TL-S.
My Honda days are probably over!
My Honda days are probably over!
MB-Fanatic w/TL-S
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 1
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Nice review.... you hit it right on the spot!! I went to Nissan's initial launch for Altima at local dealer last night(had trouble logging onto TL.Com... is it just me??)... first thing came to my mind is the fit/finish... the exterior fit/finish is great, but the interior is a BIG let down.... though I have to admit that the interior space is HUGE!!! and the seats are pretty comfortable as well(though not sure how it would hold up for long-distance driving)...
I, too, also feel that the HP is a bit over-rated.... the engine does pull nicely though....
RHINO928,
You must check out the new Altima in person, and I am sure you would be disappointed by the interior, too.... hard plastic under the seat, and/or on the door trim... that I can live with... but hard plastic dashboard???
Andy Kuo
I, too, also feel that the HP is a bit over-rated.... the engine does pull nicely though....
RHINO928,
You must check out the new Altima in person, and I am sure you would be disappointed by the interior, too.... hard plastic under the seat, and/or on the door trim... that I can live with... but hard plastic dashboard???
Andy Kuo
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Lafayette, LA
I just drove the Altima SE V-6 today, and I have to say I like it alot.
The issue with the interior is 100% true.... the interior panels could be of better quality but the dash board wasn't what bothered me. It was the door handles and the plastic under the center console arm rest. The leather could have also been better, but it is rather grippy so it does hold you in place for those tight hair pin turns. Overall the interior is very attractive, but it could have a slightly better feel. The seating position is excellent..... which is something I could never achieve in the Accord.... the TL-S and CL-S fit me fine for some reason though....
Oh and also the turn signal sound was annoying as could be.... I use turn signals for everything.... and I actually considered no using them for a while.
The issue with the engine being underpowered I don't think is true. I think it is more a matter of gearing than anything. The car has gobs of torque.... noticibly more than the Accord or the TL, especially in 1st and 2nd gear. But when it hit 3rd it seemed like it was losing some of its bullish power. The gated shifter was easy to play around with though and I actually ended up hitting the rev limiter during the test drive. The engine sounds mean, very mean... I honestly wonder if I could tolerate an intake on this car..... because it screams.
The issue with wind noise coming through the sunroof also happened to me as well.... but once the cover was moved over it, the cabin was quiet again.
The steering was direct and fairly linear.... braking seemed decent.. but can't really tell.
I think in the end, if I could actually negociate a good bit on the price of a TL-S... then I would heavily consider it. The Altima would also fall under consideration.... but I would definitely not pay MSRP for that vehicle. For right now though... I think the Altima is at the top of my list..... but the TL-S would easily pass it if I could get a good deal on it.
The issue with the interior is 100% true.... the interior panels could be of better quality but the dash board wasn't what bothered me. It was the door handles and the plastic under the center console arm rest. The leather could have also been better, but it is rather grippy so it does hold you in place for those tight hair pin turns. Overall the interior is very attractive, but it could have a slightly better feel. The seating position is excellent..... which is something I could never achieve in the Accord.... the TL-S and CL-S fit me fine for some reason though....
Oh and also the turn signal sound was annoying as could be.... I use turn signals for everything.... and I actually considered no using them for a while.
The issue with the engine being underpowered I don't think is true. I think it is more a matter of gearing than anything. The car has gobs of torque.... noticibly more than the Accord or the TL, especially in 1st and 2nd gear. But when it hit 3rd it seemed like it was losing some of its bullish power. The gated shifter was easy to play around with though and I actually ended up hitting the rev limiter during the test drive. The engine sounds mean, very mean... I honestly wonder if I could tolerate an intake on this car..... because it screams.
The issue with wind noise coming through the sunroof also happened to me as well.... but once the cover was moved over it, the cabin was quiet again.
The steering was direct and fairly linear.... braking seemed decent.. but can't really tell.
I think in the end, if I could actually negociate a good bit on the price of a TL-S... then I would heavily consider it. The Altima would also fall under consideration.... but I would definitely not pay MSRP for that vehicle. For right now though... I think the Altima is at the top of my list..... but the TL-S would easily pass it if I could get a good deal on it.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Originally posted by AKRY
You must check out the new Altima in person, and I am sure you would be disappointed by the interior, too.... hard plastic under the seat, and/or on the door trim... that I can live with... but hard plastic dashboard???
Andy Kuo
You must check out the new Altima in person, and I am sure you would be disappointed by the interior, too.... hard plastic under the seat, and/or on the door trim... that I can live with... but hard plastic dashboard???
Andy Kuo
Bottom line, The Acura manufacturing group need to get their SSHHITT together! The design team delivered a great design but they have taken a step back in the Acura quality standards...
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Type S personality
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
From: Canada
I have seen the 2002 Altima SE and Maxima, and driven the TLS and IS300. Not going to comment on the last two as they are both good cars. Price-wise here in Canada a loaded Altima is $5000 less that a Maxima SE, which is $4000 less than a TLS.
I guess we can't compare the Altima to something that cost more, but rather something that is $24,000 (is that the price down there?). In Canada Altima SE 5 speed is $32,400 or so. Maxima SE $37,985, and TLS $41,995, IS300 $43,000+.
I guess we can't compare the Altima to something that cost more, but rather something that is $24,000 (is that the price down there?). In Canada Altima SE 5 speed is $32,400 or so. Maxima SE $37,985, and TLS $41,995, IS300 $43,000+.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham, AL
Originally posted by RHINO928
As a owner of a new Nissan and Acura, I can honestly say that the Nissan'S Quality is superior to the Acura...... and I am very disappointed in the manufacturing aspects of the TL-S.
As a owner of a new Nissan and Acura, I can honestly say that the Nissan'S Quality is superior to the Acura...... and I am very disappointed in the manufacturing aspects of the TL-S.
When the QX-4 goes back to Nissan, I was pretty convinced we'd replace it with an MDX...however, based on the comments at acuraMDX.org and my personal experience with the TL, the MDX may not be the first choice any longer.
I love my TL-S: great looks, great performance - I just wish they had made it better......I bought an Acura, not a Ford.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Just went to a Local Nissan Event with the new Altima, I have the 96 Altima Fully loaded, and honest when I am comparing the leather quality between mine and the new one, no comparison at all... my leather is better than the new one, I mena at least I have leather on the side while the new one doesn't. I have seen the new Altima and TL-S, and how can you guys say the TL-S is less in quality. Having own a Nissan, I don't think I will buy another Nissan, I have enough problems with the car already, My dad and I are hunting for another car. Yes the new Altima is a good value car, but I feel it is a step behind the TL-S and plus there are not in the same class.
The New Altima interior felt so cheap and the hoop still uses a rod to hold it up? just my 2 cents
The New Altima interior felt so cheap and the hoop still uses a rod to hold it up? just my 2 cents
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