crete

WOW.....

All this discussion about mods, although I'm not knowledgeable about all the terms being discussed here, I can see there is alot of things that can be done when you choose a vehicle. To help me better understand what you are saying, are most of the mods electronic upgrades (Flash ECU, etc.) or does it also involve mechanical upgrades as well (exhaust, headers, etc). I guess it all depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend.

I'm wondering if most of you choose to buy a cetain car because of how it is built from the factory... Or do you look at how many mods you can put in it afterwards.

Although at times some of these posts have gotten somewhat personal, I feel this thread has provided me valuable info about the TL-S and the other cars folks can and are doing with modifications.

Meanwhile.......
I got a call from my Acura dealer today and she said there is a build date for my MDX for 11/5..... I explained to her I may want to move into the TL-S instead and she said no problem we can transfer your deposit/order over at anytime. I can come down and she will setup a test drive for me with the TL-S and a CL-S
and if she has a 2003 MDX I can drive that to compare. I'll be heading over there the end of October and I'll let you know my thoughts.

P.S. Please keep this thread going as it has provided a wealth of knowledge not only to me, but it looks like to other members as well. Thanks so much.

Ray_Khan

this thread keeps getting more laughable. I love it!

chiawei

You are correct in some respect because for the money I have spent on this car. I could have easily get an 540i. But I really disliked the steering response of 540i.

That really turned me off on the 540i.

Quote:

Next time just buy an M5 (you are probably thinking about that now) and then you will be fully satisfied, until you think of new mods to the M5 - maybe mod to a new M7?

My M5 purchase has turned into a nightmare. I had one on order for aug 02 delivery. But BMW decided to come out with a DVD nav, also couple of bimmer dude told me that its idiotic to take a 02 so late because of re-sale value.

Then wife and family got involved, and I have to get a M5 that is not really my color choice. So my M5 adventure has taken me almost 1 year.

chiawei

yeap. except M5 mods are way too expansive.

Dinan M5 engine upgrade cost $33k. Which gives it 470HP and 419 lb-ft of torque.

I believe that Car and driver did the dinan M5 test this issue with impressive numbers.

But a $100 grand M5?? that's too much.

chiawei

Depends on what you want and $$ to spend. The quickest way to increase power is some sort of forced induction such as Turbo charger or Super charger. This will require ECU to be re-programmed. On top of that due to pressure inside the chamber has increased, its often recommend that cylindar wall to be strengthend as well as pistons (but this really depends on the boost of the charger).

Header and exhaust provide better back pressure setting to increase HP but effect are not that great.

Quote:

I'm wondering if most of you choose to buy a cetain car because of how it is built from the factory... Or do you look at how many mods you can put in it afterwards.

For me, I buy car most because of its factory setting. I just got hooked on BMW mods due to poeple i associate with on bimmer board are much more of an expert than I am. Also, peer pressure does drag you in.

But for some cars, I just don't have the desire to mod it much. Other than my BMW, the acura/lexus/mercedes I have just left it alone. Just never had any interest in modding those car.

That being said, I did donate my TL as guinea pig for comptech super charger. So it is my TL that failed CA smog inspection during the initial testing. Comptech has since return the car to stock form.

1SICKLEX

I can say Lexus pretty much hit it on the head when it was time to move up from the ES to the GS. Dead on. I had experienced the reliability, dealer service etc etc etc with the ES. I hardly knew the GS could be modded until I ran across www.ClubLexus.com and I attended the meets, SEEING the modded cars in person.

I do know from now on, modding will be a factor in my next purchase.

In modding, since most luxury cars are NEVER touched, a BUNDLE are leased, and some are awful in execution, it is so rare to see a modded luxury car done right. And I personally get joy in doing some stuff myself, no matter how minor.

Hell, I changed the a TLs oil before, not only to help a friend, but to see if I can do it (it was a snap).

rominl

yeah it's in this month's car and driver. 33k for that is a lot. but then it's not even turbo or sc, 70hp on top of the already 400hp is a lot

Ray_Khan

if you can buy a $70k car are you really worried about resale? I can understnd not having the right color. I wouldn't want to pay that much for a car that wasn't exactly what what I wanted.

I think Dinan wanted to keep the car NA for a reason. He could easily have sc'd it or thrown a turbo on, but keeping it NA is most likely going to keep it more reliable. Unfortunetly the cost of aftermarket mods has more to do with the original cost of the car than the parts themselves. Obviously the volume of sales of the parts has something do do with it. But there is a reason the same mod on a civic costs so much less than on a higher end car.

chiawei

It's not really so much the resale value for me. But one thing that I hated about BMW NAV it is painfully slow. Not only that it has crashed on me many times before. I would much prefer to have a DVD unit.

Also, by delaying the purchase, I was able to save one year of depreciation plus avoid luxury tax. This is another benefit.

But DVD nav is the main reason that I have to push this out. But the family got involved, and I lost my 1st color choice. No one in my family wanted me to get a green M5.

Quote:

I think Dinan wanted to keep the car NA for a reason. He could easily have sc'd it or thrown a turbo on, but keeping it NA is most likely going to keep it more reliable. Unfortunetly the cost of aftermarket mods has more to do with the original cost of the car than the parts themselves. Obviously the volume of sales of the parts has something do do with it. But there is a reason the same mod on a civic costs so much less than on a higher end car.

Actually this is true. The M5 engine can't handle anymore pressure. Dinan i believe has blown 2 M5 engines trying to add super charger on it.

XE39M5

Rumor has it that the DVD system will have all the maps but will still be as slow as the old one. I really hated the NAV system in the 00 M5. 01 got wider and now 03 will get smarter but apparently not any faster.

Luxuary tax is a good point. Did you join the CCA? Do that and stick with them for a year and you get another $1000 off.

But, I wouldn't want to buy that car in the first or last year of production. 03 should be the last E39. The E60 should have some new tricks. I'm hoping to get back in the saddle in 2006.

XE39M5

I'm not into mods. I recently traded down from an M5 to a TL-S. I'm really happy with the value and the driving.

As far as the MDX goes, try test driving the two at night. I don't think the MDX has HIDs yet and that's like night and day for me.

The headlights and the much better NAV setup in the TL make it easier for me to ignore the safety lapse of not having a side curtain airbag which the BMWs do.

I like the MDX. I think it moves real well for an SUV. But I wouldn't buy it without HID and that side curtain airbag. The TL-S to me is a better value and I'm a sedan kinda guy.

crete

Good to hear a BMW 5 Series owner happy to be in a TL-S, although isn't that a big downgrade?
The MDX will still not have HID's in 2003, I agree it is a plus for night driving.

I like the MDX, but I realize as a single person I don't need 7 pass seating, 95% of the time the 2nd and 3rd rows seats will be empty. I do like the ride height SUV's provide, but gas mileage and the overall ride comfort is less than a sedan. I drove an Acura legend for 12 years and was very happy with the car. I hope the TL-S convinces me to continue along those lines.

XE39M5

Sure, it's a big downgrade. But I'm kinda weird. I can afford to buy a toy but I still look for value. The car had some problems and the biggest downgrade was driving a GMC cargo van 4 days a week.

The HIDs in the 5 series are amazing. Self leveling, notched, etc. I don't understand the hold up in the MDX.

Drove a car for 12 years? The TL-S is my first lease. I think I've gone through 7 cars in the last 12 years. I get bored fast so I'm trying to teach myself some dicipline while waiting to see what the next M5 looks like.

Open the TL up when you test drive. You can still leave most of the other drivers in the dust from a red light. The biggest time I use speed is to get out of packs or to shake a tailgater.

The TL has some of the cuter gadgetry in common with the 5 including fold-down side mirror, heated (but oddly manually activated) side windows, and kick down on the wipers when stopped. The infrared rain sensors on the 5 series is really cool.

If you had the money for a 5 series with sport AND luxury packages (not sure that's currently offered) then the 530 is the way I'd go UNLESS you wanted a good nav system. 540 if you could afford it.

But value wise and convenience you can't beat the Acura. The 5 series doesn't have functional cup holders. Well, I guess it does for CUPS but nothing else. And with the tourque of the M5 the only beverages I'd allowed are soda plastic bottles that can be capped. Otherwise the drinks in the front seat would become drinks in the backseat.

The BMW only has the one 12v socket unless you buy the adapter for the glove box flashlight socket. There is no center armrest storage in the BMW either.

Door pockets are similar. The radio is an interesting story. I find a wider dynamic range in the Acura with some CDs. This might be me screwing with the DSP too much in the BMW (my last two BMWs had DSP) but I swear I have heard more disctinct backup/overdub singing on the Acura BOSE system.

Ride noise (especially in the rain) is worse without the radio in the Acura. It was really the most shocking thing to me when I took delivery but hey, that's what the stereo is for.

Breaking is nowhere near as good in the Acura and ther's this unsettling tendency to lurch if you don't have your foot firm on the break at a stoplight. I think this might have something to do with the AC compressor cycling.

The climate control is better in the BMW. The automated system in the BMW allows you to turn off the AC but keep the other automated controls going. This might be similar in the Acura but I don't see a way to do this without setting controls to manual.

The BMW seems to have better internal temp control where the Acura seems more dependant on the outside temp. As it gets cooler here I'm contantly lowering the temp controls on the Acura when the outside temp is lower than the inside set controls. It's like the car is trying to "warm up" since the outside temp is cooler even though the inside temp is too warm for me and I'd like it to lower.

The biggest gripes I have are the astonishing lack of more on board computer functions (miles to empty, average fuel consumption), non-tethered gas cap, non lighted steering wheen controls, and a premature low on gas gauge/light. I swear I got 100 miles left when it looks like I'm sitting on empty.

The Acura does have the side airbag automatic cutoff feature which the BMW doesn't have. Two ways to pop the trunk if your trapped inside the vehicle is interesting. BMW may have added this too.

If you go with the BMW be careful with the central locking feature. There's actually a way to lock the occupants in where they cannot operate the locks from inside. So, you either have to let them out or they have to break a window. If you plan on doing this as a joke, also disable the indoor motion detector or tell them to sit very still.

I also miss the electric rear sunshade but not as much as I thought I would.

I just did a quick calc on BMWUSA.com and you're looking at 50K just for a semi-loaded 530 with NAV.

I would have sold you my M5 for $55K :')

Anyway, that's my random thoughts on the subject. Now, go buy you a TL-S.

chiawei

It's called Sports Premuim package. BMW merge the 2 this year.

Quote:

The BMW only has the one 12v socket unless you buy the adapter for the glove box flashlight socket. There is no center armrest storage in the BMW either.

Acutally they do. But BMWUSA decided to use the phone tray instead. Cost of retrofit is about $300.

Quote:

Door pockets are similar. The radio is an interesting story. I find a wider dynamic range in the Acura with some CDs. This might be me screwing with the DSP too much in the BMW (my last two BMWs had DSP) but I swear I have heard more disctinct backup/overdub singing on the Acura BOSE system.

True. BMW DSP is a disaster. But M-audio is much better than the Acura BOSE setup.

Quote:

Ride noise (especially in the rain) is worse without the radio in the Acura. It was really the most shocking thing to me when I took delivery but hey, that's what the stereo is for.

Actually try drive the TLS on concrete highway at slightly excessive speed, you would me even more amazed by how loud the road noise is. This is one of the biggest problem with TL. Only on freshly paved roads, the noise is gone.

chiawei

Smarter would work for me. At this time the search function in the current nav is totally useless.

Quote:

Luxuary tax is a good point. Did you join the CCA? Do that and stick with them for a year and you get another $1000 off.

Of course. The best member ship out there.

XE39M5

If I remember correctly you could get a lot more POI info on the BMW. I can be mistaken though.

Seems to be more road names, names of golf courses and hospitals.

It would be nice if you could finger the TL NAV POI to find out what it is. I see a hospital on the screen but no name. I should be able to click on it to have the name, address and phone number come up.

Also, the BMW is nice in the way that you can hit the control button twice without taking your eye off the road to shut the NAV lady up.

I don't know if an easy way to mute Acura lady without going through the menu setup.

AC

BMW NAV just SUX! That's the best way I can put it...It is horrifically slow, not intuitive, too many turns of the knob to get to where I need to then select, etc. I have to stop and change CD when I cross into WVA, NAVTECH is horrible with Cust. Service. Chiawei, M5's took a major dump in resale in the last 2 or 3 months...you can pick up a 2001 in the $50K's now. Almost bought a 2000 in the $40K's, but opted not to due to baby coming. Oh Chiawei, you interested in wheels? I have 19 inch PG2's for sale...AWESOME condition, but they have NITTO 555 tires, which aren't the best IMO.

ming 2.7T_RENAMED

Well, I like the MDX, have one. Rides very nice for a SUV. Good value.

As far as the cars part of it, i would like to throw in another one but everyone will flame me!!!: )
Audi A6 2.7T with 6 speed or Tiptronic. You can get a good deal on them, ride nice, very nice interior, roomy and they hold their own against other cars performance wise. Also has quattro which could be a plus depending where you live.
Has an all inclusive warranty for 4 years, only thing you have to worry about are tires. Oil changes, brake pads, rotors, wipers,,,, all covered under warranty.
With the deal you could probably get a loaded one for ~ 42-44k. Not including sales tax.

AC

Ming, I'm thinking right now...4.2 or 2.7T. I really like the wide body of the 4.2 vs the slim body of the 2.7T, plus I'm afraid I'm gonna turn the 2.7T into a monster...advice appreciated

chiawei

yeap. The M5 took a dump recently. But i still prefer to have a new car. As you know how much we abuse our car.

I am looking for style 19 OEM. I located a set in NY but the guys sold it before I find him

chiawei

It's not easy to find POI. For example, try to find alameda point in BMW is almost impossible. In acura and lexus simply type in alameda point, you would get very close to it.

[B][QUOTE]

rominl

any reason for the dump in price on the m5 lately? that's interesting

AC

Damn, I have a set of staggered Style 19 with almost new ContiSport Contact2, had the wheels refinished but they came out like sh!t so I bought a set of Hamann PG2 last Thursday, I regret the PG2 I can't believe I bought a set of wheels I had once. Then to top it off, my buddy is sending me 3 PG2 for free cuz he totalled his car. So I will have 3 19X8.5 and 4 19X10 all with NITTO 555 tires.

rominl

got pics and spec? you need to sell them man i already have 19x8.5 and 19x9.5 on my gs4, but my friend is looking for 19" on his gs4. maybe you can email me pics and price at henrykuo@ee.ucla.edu?

btw so you know what's going on with the price of the m5?

AC

Sorry, won't fit your GS, your offset is too high, although I saw a pic of a GS with Hamann wheels...my guess is that the Hamanns were designed for the 3 series, which shares about the same offset as the GS.

Don't know whats up with M5, I think it's all cars over $40K that are taking a bath. Hell, I saw a 98 NSX-T with 12K miles for $51K, 00 540's are going for mid to high 30's, 00 GS4 for low 30's, CLK55 for mid 40's...the high end market is taking a beating...

rominl

ah too bad man, otherwise i can definitely hook you up with my friends. i love staggered setup man, it's so nice.

yeah i have noticed that the prices of all cars dropped a bit lately too. at least i got my gs4 at a very good deal so i am not "losing" money yet.

chiawei

How bad are the wheels? do you want to dump it for a good price on the style 19

1SICKLEX

Nothing beats staggered IMO.

rominl

amen man, you love it the minute it's on

AC

Chiawe, honestly...no physical damage, but looks like the idiots spray painted it and sprayed clear coat...looks like SH!T. I don't think you'll like them.

crete

How bad is it on those expansion joints on the highway? Do you feel the bounce, excessive vibration? Are tires partly responsible for the noise?

chiawei

on all 4? if you have 4 good one, that's okay by me.

chiawei

Mostly from the tires. and the sound insulation from the bottom of the car is non-exsistent.

No bounce, no excessive vibration. the road surface is concrete.

Driving this car from Las Vegas back to Mojave and back to bay area was a torture.

the situation got much better after I got on to highway 5. But the concrete surface is just beyond bad.

AC

All 4 are that way...the spare is still brand new. Hey, it's staggered though ...honestly, I think I will keep them for winter shoes. Got 3 PG2 in 19's for sale!