chiawei

You should keep quiet if you do not know squat about BMW
You are the one on the crack.

The ESS super charge kit add 125 HP and 140 LB-ft of torque to the 3.0 L6. Which brings it to about 350HP and about 354 lb/ft.

A couple guys on the BMW forum was able to run 0-60 under 6 second easily with the step. You are talking about 1/3 gain in both HP and Torque without adding too much weight.


you are actually dead wrong on this. 1st of all, almost all BMW tuner has great capability in modifying the ECU. Far more competent than you can ever imaging.

Dinan's S/C 540 is faster than M5. The ESS 540i can also beat M5 hands down. There are tons of E39 owner that SC their car than you know.

The ESS kit was beta test on 3 different car for almost 2 years without problem.

Not true either, because the 530i with SC has about 60 more HP and 60 lb-ft of torque advantage over the 540i.

Not only that, the biggest reason that I went for SC on 530i is because 530i handles much better than 540i due to 540i has re-circulating balls.

So it's not as simple as you make it out to be

Too bad you are wrong on this as well.

The M-tuned suspension on the E39 is not much firmer than you made it out to be. Compared to my TL, the E39's with sport suspension ride is not that much more harsher. But the body roll is almost non-existent on my 530i as compare to both TL and TL-S.

Go out and drive one.


No, you are just ignorant.

rominl

well written man. can you explain a bit more about teh re-ciculating ball? that's the only part i don't understand.

and yes, a sc 540 can eat m5 anyday, i have seen that

chiawei

One thing I like to say is that most of the SC kit for BMW are reversible and you can even flash the ECU. Hence warranty is not really an issue.

Durablility is alos not an issue as far as I know the 1st Dinan SC 540i is on its 3rd year without any problem to speak of.

TL/TL-S
1. cheap price
2. better service
3. Nav- The Acura Nav is by far the best of in comparison with MB, BMW, and Lexus. The Acura nav's search capabilities is far better than Lexus. Which i believe deserve higher rating. The Lexus screen looks better and is much easier on the eye (especially with its browish background).

Problem
1. Hard shifting transmission as compare to other car.
2. Lousy stock brake. I have warped 2 set of stock TL brakes. My TL and my co-worker TL-S brake fared very poorly in hot weather. On a trip to Vegas passing through Mojave desert with outside temp of 110. Both our brakes were warped after a few press of brake pedal. Fade was ever noticeable. Everytime we stepped on the brake, the pedal would just shake while not providing much stopping powe. This is how i lost my 2nd set of brakes after only 7000 miles.

GS
1. GS430 is not that expansive. Last week while servicing my RX300, Lexus of Fremont had a fully loaded 2002 GS430 (listed at $57k) on sale for $50k. Which is about 2 grand cheaper than my 530i (which listed at $54k, and bought at $52k).
2. Lexus's service is by far the best of all luxury brand. Lexus of Fremont opens M-F 24 hours a day, sat and sun 8-10.
3. Much better loaner cars. I have been loaned a RX, IS, and 2002 ES.
4. Lexus build quality and material is far better as well. My TL has suffered from a lot of minor problems.

530i
1. Handles great with Factory sports suspension. Excellent road feel.
2. Awesome brakes. Almost no fading. Excellent stopping power.
3. Excellent automatic. The shift is smooth. Downshift time is much better. Much more smarter than TL/TL-S unit. Biggest advantage is that when using Steptronic mode, there is no jerking motion when downshifting. This is far better than TL.
4. Amazing throttle response. Everytime you punch the gas, the car just shoots off the line. Feels much stronger the TL at lower RPM.

Problems-
1. I had 3 recalls to replace the stupid Aux fan.
2. Poor service, got appointment cancelled on me twice.
3. Lousy loaner.
4. Cheap interior materials. I have not seen such a poor plastic and leather on a $50k car.
5. Not really good assembly quality. After a year and half with this car there are some noticeable rattling developing.

It really depends on your budget. But 5 series is far much more fun to drive than TL-S. There is simply no comparison on this.

TL- other than being affordable, I really can't think of a reason why I would want one other than the DVD nav. But I am very disappointed with Honda/Acura at this time because of the problems I had with my '00 TL.

chiawei

All 5 series with V8 comes with re-circulating balls as steering mechanism while the L6 version get rack and pinon ( i am not sure about spelling).

Hence the L6 BMW provide much better road feel than V8 5 series.
Also, L6 5 series has slightly better weight distribution than V8 5 series.

The V8 5 series steering is quiet heavy at low speed, which means you have to spent a lot of effort in parking your car when power steering boost is needed the most. On higher speed, the steering feels quiet floaty.

Out of all 5 series model, including the M5, the L6 5 series has much better road feel.

rominl

thanks for the info!!! but power wise, put in all mods you can imagine, can a modded 530 take over a modded 540 or m5?

SSItls

I faced the same choices, and I decided on a used GS400 1999 w/ 45,000 miles for $27000. I got a steal. Acura had not yet adressed the tranny issues so that scared me away from the TL. The G 35 is in my opinion the best deal on a new sedan I was trading a 97 //M3 auto & the G was a great performer rwd is just superior to fwd especially since I don't to worry about the snow. The new twin turbo kits for the GS 300 are sweet since it is basically a supra drive train.
Another choice that has not been listed is the A6 2.7T. which imho has the best interior of all mentioned cars & with the cost of a chip becomes a beast. CPO A6's or GS400's are great alternatives to the TL-s

SCWells72

Actually one page back, I said: "So my recommendation would be: new car $30-35K, G35; used car $30-40K, used GS400; used car with manual tranny $30-40K, used 540i or A6 2.7T Quattro w/APR chip."

Looks like you and I have very similar tastes in cars!

crete

Thanks for your input about the 5 Series, as someone who probably would go with the factory stock 530iA (225hp) if I went with this one, is it still better road feel and performance than the TL-S?

Also I've been reading here about a new redesign on the 2004 TL-S... some say up to 280 HP with several other improvements.
Maybe I should wait to see how this would compare to the BMW 5 Series.

rominl

well it's still rumor, no one knows for sure about what the 04 tls would be like. my guess is it would be 3.5L 280 to 300hp car, with around 260tq at most. but then imho the problem is still FWD. you can only really take advantage of that much power on a FWD car, putting more hp and tq on a FWD car is stupid.

and keep in mind in 04 or 05 the new bmw 5 series would be out too, and those cars would be beasts for sure, they have some insane specs. a yr later the m5 with 500hp will come out, nuff said.

so in short, no, unless honda really diverges the tls from the accord platform and makes it a RWD or AWD (rumor is there might be AWD on the 04 tls), no way it can hang with bimmers

roadman

Count on the M5 and AMG's to match Audi's new RS6's 450hp. As for the proposed engine, it is likely that the RL will get a 3.8 with approx 300hp and it is front wheel drive. The TL may get a slightly different version of that same engine.

rominl

yup, i have no doubt about bmw and amg coming out with cars that will beat the rs6. the m5 will beat it for sure with the 500hp m5, and people start to have spec on the e55 already, which is very promising.

one good question about the upcoming rl engine would be whether it has vtec. the current 3.5L engine for the rl has no vtec and it's slow....

SCWells72

The details on the new M5 aren't 100% established yet...you hear about a 500HP V10 or a bi-turbo 5.0L V8...who knows?! But the E55 has already been announced. Here's some info from Edmunds about it. For those who don't want to read the whole thing, here's the summary info:

Power-wise that's higher than the RS6, but the acceleration #s are in line with it, plus the RS6 has Quattro.

Hell, I'd take any of the RS6, M5, or E55 with a big stinking grin my face!!!

roadman

The RL is slower than a TL, but it is also heavier and the 3.5 could be tuned into a higher performing engine quite easily. Currently it makes 225hp at 5200 but 231lbs of torque. The torgue already nearly matches the TL-S engine. Bump the current 3.5 comp ratio from 9.6 to match the TL-S's 10.5, raise the RPM level from 5200 to 6000 and of course add VTEC and this could easily be the 280hp version that we are hearing about.

Ray_Khan

so if you have a problem with your car, you are going to take out all the plumbing and parts an reflash your ecu and take it to bmw. And then they you are going to put everything back on afterwards? Are you doing this work yourself or are you going to pay for 2 installs everytime you get a check engine light?

you are very trusting of tuners I see. I can tell you've never turned a wrench in your life since 0-60 is the true measurement of a cars perforamcen to you. I can tell you have no idea what a fuel map is, a timing map is and a knock sensor is. That's ok. You have no idea what goes into your car, you just seem to drop your $$$ into the car because the big words on a tuner's website sound so good. All the points I made are perectly valid. Why don't you ask the tuner's how many engines they have blown up in developing their kits? How many customers have had issues with their kits? I garauntee 75% or more customers have had some issue with the kits. I say this because it's the same for any brand of cars and their tuners. I assume the 5.30 has an electronic throttle. This is another obstacle in software tuning. Ask the tuner if their dyno numbers are repeatable. Do you believe them when their website say they are getting 10 wheel hp from a cone intake? Tuning a german car is not easy. I would only trust Dinan for software tuning because they will access to the original code of the Bosch or Siemens ecus. The tuners that rewrite in their own code are probably not as good. Maybe there are some other Tuners as good as Dinan, but I wouldn't be their guniea pig until other people I know and trust have had reliable performance from their kits. I'll assume you and the tuner you bought from know the torque spec of you transmission? What is it? So you are sure yout tranny can hold all that power? Did you upgrade the torque converter?

I don't doubt a sc's 530 is fast. I have driven bmw's. I have driven forced insuction cars. As far as handling goes, of course the 5.30 will have better handlign potential with a lighter engine adn better weight distribution. But I wouldn't buy a 5 series sized car if I wanted super handling. For me, 540 sport is fine.

in the end, if you are talking about buying a car and tuning it, any car can be made to be fast and handle decently well. But how reliable will it be, Will it start every day? Will it start in the cold weather?

AC

A S/C 530 auto hitting 5.6 sec would be fairly tough with the ESS kit. The ESS kit is not as agressive as the Dinan kit...7 lbs vs. 8.5 lbs of boost.

The Dinan programming does void your warranty. Sorry Chiawei, don't let Dinan fool you. When my car went in for service, on the computer it clearly stated WARRANTY VOIDED... but any Dinan dealer will service it.

chiawei

You are a moron you know. The install takes about 8 hours with basic tool that almost everyone can do it.

Quote:

you are very trusting of tuners I see. I can tell you've never turned a wrench in your life since 0-60 is the true measurement of a cars perforamcen to you. I can tell you have no idea what a fuel map is, a timing map is and a knock sensor is. That's ok. You have no idea what goes into your car, you just seem to drop your $$$ into the car because the big words on a tuner's website
sound so good.

how would you know, go look at bmwtips.com. at least i made a modification worthy of being kept on the bmwtips.com

Like i said, keep your mouth shut because you don't know squat.

Quote:

All the points I made are perectly valid. Why don't you ask the tuner's how many engines they have blown up in developing their kits? How many customers have had issues with their kits? I garauntee 75% or more customers have had some issue with the kits.

Proof? So you are making a claim without any proof to backup your statement. I on the other hand does know at least 10 people with SC that are fine with the SC kit. One was even a beta test car for Dinan.

No proof=BS

Quote:

I say this because it's the same for any brand of cars and their tuners. I assume the 5.30 has an electronic throttle. This is another obstacle in software tuning. Ask the tuner if their dyno numbers are repeatable. Do you believe them when their website say they are getting 10 wheel hp from a cone intake? Tuning a german car is not easy. I would only trust Dinan for software tuning because they will access to the original code of the Bosch or Siemens ecus. The tuners that rewrite in their own code are probably not as good.

Like i said, no proof=BS.

Quote:

I don't doubt a sc's 530 is fast. I have driven bmw's. I have driven forced insuction cars. As far as handling goes, of course the 5.30 will have better handlign potential with a lighter engine adn better weight distribution. But I wouldn't buy a 5 series sized car if I wanted super handling. For me, 540 sport is fine.

You are so ignorant. The E39 are not that big, it actually smaller than TL and Accord. Hence your comment just showed you how ignorant you are about BMW.

Quote:

in the end, if you are talking about buying a car and tuning it, any car can be made to be fast and handle decently well. But how reliable will it be, Will it start every day? Will it start in the cold weather?

how would you know, since you do not own one. Just admit that your statement are complete BS without merit.

why don't you just stand up like a man and say I am ignorant.
Because you know nada about BMW.

chiawei

Actually, I know Coop ran 5.6 with his SC 530i+ Diana CAI. It's doable.

Quote:

The Dinan programming does void your warranty. Sorry Chiawei, don't let Dinan fool you. When my car went in for service, on the computer it clearly stated WARRANTY VOIDED... but any Dinan dealer will service it.

This part i know. But ESS has their own programming which voids your warranty except that you can flash it. And there is no way that BMW can tell that it has be done. the only problem is that it takes ESS about 3 week to turn around a ECU.

chiawei

In terms of handling and road feel, the answer is 100% yes. The only performance that 530iA will lose would be straight line acceleration. But when TL-S hits 4th gear, you probably would already catch up with TL-S. But for the 1st 3 gear you are going to be behind.

But braking, handling, and road feel 530iA is far more superior.

Quote:

Also I've been reading here about a new redesign on the 2004 TL-S... some say up to 280 HP with several other improvements.
Maybe I should wait to see how this would compare to the BMW 5 Series.

By that time the new 5 is expected to have a 3.0L6 twin turbo with about 380HP. So the more you wait the more powerful car there is. But you will not want to buy 1st year BMW.

ferizzo

Chiawei, you need to calm down a bit brova!

Ray_Khan

so you are going to spend 16 hours unistalling and re installig your kit every time you need to take it in for a check engie light?
And I'm the moron? ok

BTW, in the real world, people measure up cars by 1/4 mile time. I knwo you have no idea what these are, but I am trying to enlighten you. 0-60 is a number that dealers and magazines liek to sell people on who know little about cars.

and about your no proof = BS lines, it works both ways my friend. Where are your dynos? Where are your timeslips? I smell some BS over there. There is a difference from knowing something about cars, from reading it on some forum and regurgitating it. I am trying to shed some light on what you are saying, but you seem to have a closed mind to what I'm saying. That's fine. As long as you are happy with your car and the time and $$$ you put into it. You make some points which I agree with, but you just don't listen to what I say.

rominl

sigh, sad to see what used to be an informative thread closing...

Ray_Khan

on teh topic of the RS6...450 hp is just the tip of the iceburg. A chip will probably bring the car' output over 500 hp. Audi tends to use small turbos in order to keep a flat torque curve like in teh A4 1.8T and S4 2.7T. I am not sure what turbos they use with the v-8, but I imagine they stay with smaller ones. There is usually a slightly larger turbo as with the A4 adn S4 with will fir the stock exhaust manifolds and yield a bit more lag but more power as well. Witha v-8, lag shoudln't be a big issue. But if tuner's can get slow to 600 hp from a 2.7T, imagine what they can do with a 4.2 lliter v-8. Shoudl be interestesting.

AC

You are absolutely correct! Dinan crap is Encrypted and can be taken down to stock by any Dinan dealer...ESS can be flashed back to stock by any BMW dealer! My buddy in Houston was gonna get the ESS kit for his 530i but opted to go with RMS with 8.5 lbs of boost. I believe he's gonna be putting down close to 320HP at the wheels...NASTY Oh, BTW, he has a Dinan CAI and TB for sale

AC

I think they are dumping their K04 turbos in them! I agree, a chip will unleash that beast even more....

Chiawei, I heard the 530 TT will only be Diesel and Europe only...I hope I'm wrong cuz I'm waiting for nothing then... I refuse to add a Dinan SC to my 540 cuz I already feel ripped off by them.

Ray_Khan, I think you're missing the point per say about ripping out SC and etc. That would be the case with all cars that are modded. I will say that BMW is a hell of a lot more generous about modding a car than when I had my basic bolt ons on my Acura. My Acurad dealer acted like I killed someone when they found my CAI...all hell broke loose when they found out I had headers. When water got in my CAI on my 540, a non Dinan dealer fixed my Check Engine with no hassles...even warrantied it somehow.

Ray_Khan

AC...that is my point. It all Started from comparing a modded 5.30 to a 5.40, TLS and GS4300. I made the original point that a modded car is without warranty and less reliable than a stock car. Then the response was that you could just reflash the ecu back to stock. That of course is pointless if you have a blower sitting on top of your engine. So hwo does a flasable ecu help in any way? So if your car can be flashed, the dealer could just flash their programming back over your aftermarket program and deny your warranty at the same time. Seems unsafe to me.

As far as software goes, I prefer encrypted software. If I mod, I want something safe from being reflashed. I'm not trying to hide it from the dealer. I trust a company who has taken the time to encrypt their software. It shows their software is good and they don't want another tuner to be able to copy it.

As far as K04's on the RS6 go...I guess we'll ave to take some k16's from a porsche 911 turbo or some k24's (or K26's I can't rmemeber exactly) from a GT2 :>)

chiawei

Dude, why can you read the post. The blower can be removed. The only problem is the ECU turn around time is long. Unless you have a V8, which takes an arm and leg to remove the kit. The L6 does not have that problem.

Also, your point is ridiculous, dealer can simply flash their own software over it??? Although the ECU program is flashable, is does not mean that dealer can just flash it accidentally.

Quote:

As far as software goes, I prefer encrypted software. If I mod, I want something safe from being reflashed. I'm not trying to hide it from the dealer. I trust a company who has taken the time to encrypt their software. It shows their software is good and they don't want another tuner to be able to copy it.

Another pointless response.

chiawei

Dinan is a rip off. ESS has a stage 3 kits that will actually out perform Dinan SC 540i. For $10k you get about 435HP, front M-technic bumper.

chiawei

Why not? If needed I would disassemble the kit.
You are a moron because you really knows nothing about BMW. You had no idea how powerful this SC kit is. Nor you have clue on the capability of ESS tuning. ESS tuning has been in the business in europe longer than Dinan in US.

The problem with you is that you simply can accept that a ESS kit could provide that huge of a gain without any long term effect. Nor can you comprehend why bimmer owner would spent so much time on their car.

I guess you really have no clue about BMW owner behavior. I have spent $1200 to upgrade my M-sport steering wheel to a M5 sports wheel simply because its thicker and it could void my Airbag warranty. But do i care? The answer is no. To be honest with you, i can care less about warranty. I have modded this car to hell. The stereo is a DIY job. TV on nav is also a DIY job.

You just can't accept that fact that I am not as mechanical challenged as you made me out to be. The biggest problem with you is that once you lost an argument you start accusing people. Granted I am not a bimmer expert in anyway. At least I have modded my car by myself. Which is more than I can say about you.

Quote:

BTW, in the real world, people measure up cars by 1/4 mile time. I knwo you have no idea what these are, but I am trying to enlighten you. 0-60 is a number that dealers and magazines liek to sell people on who know little about cars.

Like i said, you have not a clue regarding this issue. The reason that I went SC is simply i want to have more power while maintain the handling of a rack and pinon car. Which 540i could not provide. More power is alway welcome by me.

Quote:

and about your no proof = BS lines, it works both ways my friend. Where are your dynos? Where are your timeslips? I smell some BS over there.

True, i haven't dynoed my car yet. But I can provide 2 dyno (one from ESS, the other from coop's car) along with a time slip.

But where is your proof. I haven't had the time to take the car out to get it dyno and track day yet. But I know plenty of people that has already did it.

Also, i have been on this board much longer than you have. And has showed up in couple TL meet with my 530i.

So stop the BS. tell the truth.

Where is your proof that I am mechanically challenged? Enlightening me with your superior knowledge.

0-60 is not everything, but it does not hurt if you have a sub 6 sec 0-60. But I guess to you the only you know about is 0-60mph.

1SICKLEX

U know, I saw 4 pages and I thought to myself "another TL-S can beat a GS thread" but it is good to see it is a modded 530 vs ??? thread

0-60 has turned into a marketing tool, as has peak HP. You RARELY use either. Merging on the freeway takes you to 80mph. Peak hp, these are autos, not manuals. Then the engine would be too loud at peak levels.

So many people just compare 0-60 and this and that and don't know squat.

SergeyM

You sound like a one crazy BMW owner. If you do not care about the warranty and thus about money, you can get something better that ESS SC 530. Get a Ferrari or 911 Turbo or better get a life and stop calling other people morons. Not knowing much about BMW is not making a person stupid. To say that SC does not have a long-time effect is really stupid. I believe that smart people do not super-charge their cars. They get faster production cars. There are plenty of new models coming out next year. RS6 and E55 to name just a few.

AC

Sergey, I think you're going about it the wrong way...sure, why not just buy a faster car, but it's the joy of improving your vehicle that gave me such enthusisam in turning my TL and 540 into something different than what I had stock. Of course, had I known I would have spent this much money, I would have gotten a M5, but reality is, I have a 540 and decided to have fun with it.

Chiawei, I didn't know you had a ESS 530...what's your handle on Roadfly?

rominl

you are going in the wrong way bud. yeah, right, make sure you don't mod your car in anyway, if so just save up the money and buy a better car...

it doesn't work this way, modding a car is fun and a hobby. i have spent over 10g on my tls and gs4, i don't think i am stupid. going through the process of knowing nothing to knowing everything about your car is a big achievement. while i don't comment on how other people present their ideas, chiawei definitely knows more about bimmers than a lot of people

SergeyM

I am not against mods in general. I just did not like someone to be called moron for any reson. I did re-read my post and I apologize for it being somewhat rude too. All I wanted to say was that you can SC your car but you should realize that you are shortening the car's life. I also agree that some cars like TL-S for example are asking to be modded. It is not everybody's cup of tea though. I hate going to my dealer once in 6 month for service and just cannot imagine fighting with them over a warranty issue and lying that I did not mod the car. I owned a TL-S and did debate the mods issue with myself. I decided that mods are not for me and traded TL-S to 540. Is 540 perfect? No. But it is better and can now wait to see what's coming next year and may trade it for something more to my liking.

chiawei

I just got the kit done over the last weekend.

AC you should know me. KK. I haven't been as active on roadfly as previously. Somehow peter/rsimilar and bunch of the gang has turned that thing into porn site and joke around too much.

chiawei

Like I said, I don't call people moron unless they started accusing people of something that is not true.

The guy simply has nothing to stand on. 1st by accusing people smoking crack because the SC 530i can hang with M5/M3. After being shown otherwise, started making accusation that I have no mechanical skill what so ever.

I take offense when people can't simply state an argument and has to resort to unfounded accusation. This is simply not correct.

AC

Sergey, I didn't know you got a 540...I assume you're Sergey on Roadfly? Chiawei, I know there are like 3 or 4 blown 530's on the board...I still can't figure out which one is you... Sorry. BTW, what do you think of blacked out front grille, blacked out Dinan5 badge, black Hamann Roundels (I bought my second set of PG2 ) on a silver E39?

chiawei

I haven't posted about my car yet. since I am still waiting for the ECU to be returned. I am planning a thanksgiving Las Vegas run. hopefully i will have a detail report by that. Like you said having a blown 530i is not news anymore. BTW you can find my M5 wheel install on the bmwtips.com website.

BTW, your suggestion would be tight. Upload the pic in roadfly when you are done. I would love to see that.

acuraguynj

Chiawei,

It is good to hear from you again and you definitely are the BMW expert here.

However you can call me a moron, because I still have to believe that you could have bought the 540, instead of doing all these mods to a 530. The 530 is a great car, but it's no 540. You do have to admit a 540 commands a higher form of respect out there, then a supercharged 530 with all the mods in the world. OK, so your modded 530 can beat a stock 540 and hang with a M5, but it's still a 530 in our eyes and especially BMW owner's eyes. You probably don't care about that anyways.

I can compare this somewhat to a Honda Accord owner doing all the mods in the world to their Accord, but compare it against an Acura TL Type S and it's still simply a high performance, souped up Accord, that people will say it's cool, but it's No Acura TL Type S.

Next time just buy an M5 (you are probably thinking about that now) and then you will be fully satisfied, until you think of new mods to the M5 - maybe mod to a new M7?

rominl

well i am sure there are still plenty of mods to put on the m5

acuraguynj

I believe you are correct. It is endless, because we can never be satisfied.

Heck supermodels get dumped, because there is always someone else out there that is even hotter! Amazing!

(By the way I would settle for just one supermodel anyday!)