Acura was 15th in the JD Powers IQS?!?
05-03-2004, 06:12 PM
#1
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Acura was 15th in the JD Powers IQS?!?
I can't believe it. I just saw the JD Powers 2004 Inititial Quality Study and Acura was ranked 15th which made it about AVERAGE! There were 14 other makes that had higher initial quality in this study. I think in the past Acura has been typically up near the top of the list with Lexus (which was number 1 for 2004). Anybody know why/how this happened? I am really bummed ...
05-03-2004, 06:24 PM
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I think in the "Acura Legend" years, acura was typically near the top on the JD power. Since then, I don't think acura keep up with what everyone else is doing. Hopefully, this will get acura/honda to wake up. :-)
05-03-2004, 06:41 PM
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Yeah - but Honda was number 4 and they are the same company.
Here's the list from JD Powers:
2004 IQS Results:
Lexus 87
Cadillac 93
Jaguar 98
Honda 99
Buick 100
Mercury 100
Hyundai 102
Infiniti 104
Toyota 104
Mercedes-Benz 106
Audi 109
BMW 109
Oldsmobile 110
Volvo 113
Acura 117
Chevrolet 119
IND. AVERAGE 119
Chrysler 120
Dodge 121
Lincoln 121
Pontiac 122
Subaru 123
GMC 127
Ford 130
Mitsubishi 130
Saab 133
Jeep 136
MINI 142
Land Rover 148
Saturn 149
Suzuki 149
Kia 153
Nissan 154
Mazda 157
Scion 158
Porsche 159
Volkswagen 164
Hummer 173
Here's the list from JD Powers:
2004 IQS Results:
Lexus 87
Cadillac 93
Jaguar 98
Honda 99
Buick 100
Mercury 100
Hyundai 102
Infiniti 104
Toyota 104
Mercedes-Benz 106
Audi 109
BMW 109
Oldsmobile 110
Volvo 113
Acura 117
Chevrolet 119
IND. AVERAGE 119
Chrysler 120
Dodge 121
Lincoln 121
Pontiac 122
Subaru 123
GMC 127
Ford 130
Mitsubishi 130
Saab 133
Jeep 136
MINI 142
Land Rover 148
Saturn 149
Suzuki 149
Kia 153
Nissan 154
Mazda 157
Scion 158
Porsche 159
Volkswagen 164
Hummer 173
05-03-2004, 07:24 PM
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acura being ranked one in front of chevy says alot. The fact that honda is high and acura low maybe that the extra power found with acuras is somehow stressing the car. My 03 tl type s has been back to the dealer 5 times in one year tranny, rotors, rattles, non working heated seats. My old 2000 accord v6 never went back to the dealer. Oh well I own it now I have to deal with it. However, I will never own another acura. In fact when I dumped my spouse's expedition 5 months ago, I went with toyota as I had already seen and read enough about acura. 
05-03-2004, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by atl-abp
acura being ranked one in front of chevy says alot. The fact that honda is high and acura low maybe that the extra power found with acuras is somehow stressing the car. My 03 tl type s has been back to the dealer 5 times in one year tranny, rotors, rattles, non working heated seats. My old 2000 accord v6 never went back to the dealer. Oh well I own it now I have to deal with it. However, I will never own another acura. In fact when I dumped my spouse's expedition 5 months ago, I went with toyota as I had already seen and read enough about acura.
Hopefully everyone learns a lesson with their purchase. JD Power and Consumer's Magazine are just a few of the tools an educated buyer MUST use to make buying decisions. If you ask me, real world sources like this forum and other user's groups should also become mainstream to make potential buyers aware of any problems they may encounter with the vehicle.
Biaises aside, these facts present what the real world sees and experience. Real consumers providing actual feedback and evaluations. And like a "loyal" Honda customer like myself may be swayed into going another route because of deteriorating product quality......
Honda are you listening????
05-04-2004, 09:03 PM
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I have at least one Honda in the family since 1989. We've been through 89 Civic, 91 Accord, 93 Civic, and now 00 Odyssey, 03 TLs. In between those years, we also had 97 Max, 97 Camry. I am seeing the product quality control from Honda is gradually going down. I don't know if "american made" hondas has anything to do with the quality. I do believe that the quality control need to be tighter and stricter. All of us would have less rattles, tranny issues....etc.
Don't get me wrong, I do love my TLS. It is a fun driving machine. But it is also sad to see some many of us on this board having tranny issues. Oh well, mine is leased and I will live with it for another two years. Meanwhile, have fun driving the TLs !
Don't get me wrong, I do love my TLS. It is a fun driving machine. But it is also sad to see some many of us on this board having tranny issues. Oh well, mine is leased and I will live with it for another two years. Meanwhile, have fun driving the TLs !
05-04-2004, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatSmile
I have at least one Honda in the family since 1989. We've been through 89 Civic, 91 Accord, 93 Civic, and now 00 Odyssey, 03 TLs. In between those years, we also had 97 Max, 97 Camry. I am seeing the product quality control from Honda is gradually going down. I don't know if "american made" hondas has anything to do with the quality. I do believe that the quality control need to be tighter and stricter. All of us would have less rattles, tranny issues....etc.
Don't get me wrong, I do love my TLS. It is a fun driving machine. But it is also sad to see some many of us on this board having tranny issues. Oh well, mine is leased and I will live with it for another two years. Meanwhile, have fun driving the TLs !
Don't get me wrong, I do love my TLS. It is a fun driving machine. But it is also sad to see some many of us on this board having tranny issues. Oh well, mine is leased and I will live with it for another two years. Meanwhile, have fun driving the TLs !
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05-04-2004, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatSmile
I am seeing the product quality control from Honda is gradually going down. I don't know if "american made" hondas has anything to do with the quality. I do believe that the quality control need to be tighter and stricter.
05-04-2004, 11:49 PM
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I have a British friend, working here on a contract. While here he drove a Vette.
He left last summer...sold the vette and got an Audi A6.
Asked him why not take the Vette back....he laughed and said "It's made in America"
That kinda wraps it all up.
The only thing not touched by American Labor on our cars is the Engine and Trannie...and the Trannie still has it's issues.
America....our cars s**k...but we have the best damn bombs!
He left last summer...sold the vette and got an Audi A6.
Asked him why not take the Vette back....he laughed and said "It's made in America"
That kinda wraps it all up.
The only thing not touched by American Labor on our cars is the Engine and Trannie...and the Trannie still has it's issues.
America....our cars s**k...but we have the best damn bombs!
05-05-2004, 07:09 AM
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This is a harsh wake up call. Did you all really look at the list and see what ranked ahead of Acura??? Hyundai, Buick, Jaguar, even Mercury!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is atrocious...these aforementioned cars were the laughing stock of the industry and they have managed to surpass (at least in this discussion) Acura quality.
Very disappointing and sobering. I have already decided to go with Lexus when my 99 finally gives out. I cant complain with as many miles as I have on my car however, I have not been dilligent to replace/repair things that are annoying like the seats/heaters, squeeks/rattles. I just dont care enough any more to invest any further do-re-mi in a car that merely takes me back and forth to work every day...
Axe
Very disappointing and sobering. I have already decided to go with Lexus when my 99 finally gives out. I cant complain with as many miles as I have on my car however, I have not been dilligent to replace/repair things that are annoying like the seats/heaters, squeeks/rattles. I just dont care enough any more to invest any further do-re-mi in a car that merely takes me back and forth to work every day...
Axe
05-05-2004, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by White-tls
I have a British friend, working here on a contract. While here he drove a Vette.
He left last summer...sold the vette and got an Audi A6.
Asked him why not take the Vette back....he laughed and said "It's made in America"
That kinda wraps it all up.
The only thing not touched by American Labor on our cars is the Engine and Trannie...and the Trannie still has it's issues.
America....our cars s**k...but we have the best damn bombs!
He left last summer...sold the vette and got an Audi A6.
Asked him why not take the Vette back....he laughed and said "It's made in America"
That kinda wraps it all up.
The only thing not touched by American Labor on our cars is the Engine and Trannie...and the Trannie still has it's issues.
America....our cars s**k...but we have the best damn bombs!
05-05-2004, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by vicman17
American trucks though, are something to behold.
On a side note interestingly the Entire Lexus model line up is ALL built in Japan which may correlate why their quality is better than American built Acuras, with the exception of the RL and NSX which are built entirely in Japan. Go to the Acura showroom, and compare the RL with the Fit and finish of the 2004 TL, look at the fit and finish, although they are both good, one can see that the RL fit and finish is a notch above the TL.
05-05-2004, 10:43 AM
#14
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These ratings are consistent with my experience. The only thing more disappointing than the quality of my Acura has been the complete lack of interest on the part of Acura in making it right. I've owned both Lexus and Cadillacs, and both were higher quality. I owned a Buick, and I'd say that was better, too. I had two Jags--they were dicey, but that was years ago. My parents have an XJR now and that has been a good car.
05-05-2004, 11:09 AM
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I don't agree with this rating at all. We got our 99 TL. In fact it was one of the first this dealer got. We've had nothing but trouble-free driving with this car ( knock on wood ). When I hear you guys complain about trannys breaking, rattles and squeaks boggles my mind. I live in Toronto, where the weather is more harsh then our southern friends. I would cerntainly buy another Acura. But I am having too much fun in my current Acura TL to buy another car. I really love the stock brakes on the car as welll. Just took into the dealer to see if I need a brake job. He said you still have 70% brakes left ! What a diff from the FORD we owned!
The only time I heard a squeak from this car is from thsi past winter when the temp went below -30 degrees. Other than that, its built like a bank vault. I love it.
The only time I heard a squeak from this car is from thsi past winter when the temp went below -30 degrees. Other than that, its built like a bank vault. I love it.
05-05-2004, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatSmile
Is 99TL built here in US? I am assuming all TL are built here in ohio.
05-05-2004, 04:43 PM
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My wife has a 97 tl, bought it new... and never had a problem. 140,000 mile's. And if you look hard enough you can see the quality difference between her's and my 2000 tl. Allthough, I will never admit this to her. 
And up until not too long ago I thought all Acura's were built in Japan and honda's were built here in america. Correct me if i'm wrong, but, the problem with american car's is due to lazy worker's?
And up until not too long ago I thought all Acura's were built in Japan and honda's were built here in america. Correct me if i'm wrong, but, the problem with american car's is due to lazy worker's?
05-05-2004, 04:46 PM
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The Acura CL's were all built in Ohio, 1999+ TL's in Ohio, MDX's in Canada I believe. Not sure about the EL's for the Canadian market.
All the rest were built in Japan though.
Oh and I agree about the difference between a '97 TL and the newer TL's. I have a '97 and my dad has an '03, both are really nice cars but there are some detailed differences in quality if you look closely.
All the rest were built in Japan though.
Oh and I agree about the difference between a '97 TL and the newer TL's. I have a '97 and my dad has an '03, both are really nice cars but there are some detailed differences in quality if you look closely.
05-05-2004, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jdigeorgio
2004 IQS Results:
Lexus 87
Cadillac 93
Jaguar 98
Honda 99
Buick 100
Mercury 100
Hyundai 102
Infiniti 104
Toyota 104
Mercedes-Benz 106
Audi 109
BMW 109
Oldsmobile 110
Volvo 113
Acura 117
Lexus 87
Cadillac 93
Jaguar 98
Honda 99
Buick 100
Mercury 100
Hyundai 102
Infiniti 104
Toyota 104
Mercedes-Benz 106
Audi 109
BMW 109
Oldsmobile 110
Volvo 113
Acura 117
the 1999-2003 TLs' build quality is below average imo.
@cUr@-TL
05-05-2004, 08:53 PM
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I still love my TLS. Will I get another TL, probably not! I hope Honda American is watching this forum and hope they listen to what we are saying. It's hard to see what an excellent car "Acura Legend" was, and compare it to our TL........
05-05-2004, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by davey73
My wife has a 97 tl, bought it new... and never had a problem. 140,000 mile's. And if you look hard enough you can see the quality difference between her's and my 2000 tl. Allthough, I will never admit this to her. And up until not too long ago I thought all Acura's were built in Japan and honda's were built here in america. Correct me if i'm wrong, but, the problem with american car's is due to lazy worker's?
And up until not too long ago I thought all Acura's were built in Japan and honda's were built here in america. Correct me if i'm wrong, but, the problem with american car's is due to lazy worker's?Or maybe we're just expecting too much...
This forum should request a bunch or product feedback forms from Honda and after we all send it back maybe they would listen.
05-05-2004, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by vicman17
Here's how to tell:
If the VIN starts with a "1", it's Made in the U.S.A.
If the VIn starts with a "2", It's Made in Canada
If the VIN starts with a "J", then the car is imported from Japan.
I think the agreement was that there should be enough North American content in the car (even nuts and bolts to be milled here) to allow a direct import model. So, if say the whole Civic line were made in Canada and the Accord/ TL lines were made in the USA, then Integras, RL's and Preludes were allowed in. At least that's how I understood it before.
Acura was an attempt by Honda as an upmarket to compete with the top brands (BMW, Mercedes-Benz). At least when the first Legend came to be, it was a work of art going toe to toe with Benz and the Bimmer. Toyota followed with Lexus and Nissan with Infiniti, etc... Cars in the Acura product line are marketed as Honda in Japan and the rest of Asia (as in Honda RL, Honda Integra, even the Honda NSX, etc..) So the Acura we know here only exists in North America.
I believe it's the difference in work ethics and ownership of the product they are producing. In N/A, it's all dollars and cents. No matter how much a Japanese company try to infuse their principles, Canadian and American workers will do their own thing and will never be like Japanes workers. It may also be because we are so used to subpar quality (like most N/A automobiles) that Honda found a market for their "subpar" products, 'coz we end up buying it anyway. Now we know, not just it's made by Honda (or Toyota), doesn't mean it's superior in quality.
Or maybe we're just expecting too much from a brand we still thought to be "upmarket"...
This forum should request a bunch or product feedback forms from Honda and after we all send it back maybe they would listen.
05-05-2004, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by vicman17
No matter how much a Japanese company try to infuse their principles, Canadian and American workers will do their own thing and will never be like Japanes workers. It may also be because we are so used to subpar quality (like most N/A automobiles) that Honda found a market for their "subpar" products, 'coz we end up buying it anyway. Now we know, not just it's made by Honda (or Toyota), doesn't mean it's superior in quality.
05-05-2004, 09:49 PM
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I always take JD Powers with a HUGE grain of salt.
The ONLY source I trust out there is Consumer Reports, they've been testing stuff for 75 years and they give praise and criticism when due.
The ONLY source I trust out there is Consumer Reports, they've been testing stuff for 75 years and they give praise and criticism when due.
05-06-2004, 02:31 AM
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I believe the IQS is based on surveys of owners and in the past has been criticized as being highly subjective (someone correct me if this has changed). Buicks and Hyundais may indeed have more problems than Acuras, but it could be if their owners don't perceive those as problems and don't report them then it won't drag their rating down. Acura owners may be more picky about things and have higher expectations (and rightly so) and report all of those, which drags the ratings down. I think ultimately it's a combination of both perceived/real problems and a degradation of quality that's led to Acura's decline to 14th place. I hope they can get it back into the top 10 though, no reason why Honda should be 10 places ahead when they're the same company.
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05-06-2004, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lokman
I believe the IQS is based on surveys of owners and in the past has been criticized as being highly subjective (someone correct me if this has changed). Buicks and Hyundais may indeed have more problems than Acuras, but it could be if their owners don't perceive those as problems and don't report them then it won't drag their rating down. Acura owners may be more picky about things and have higher expectations (and rightly so) and report all of those, which drags the ratings down. I think ultimately it's a combination of both perceived/real problems and a degradation of quality that's led to Acura's decline to 14th place. I hope they can get it back into the top 10 though, no reason why Honda should be 10 places ahead when they're the same company.
05-06-2004, 09:36 AM
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Has anyone considered that maybe the other makes (i.e.: Hyundai) got better?? When I drove my cousin's 99 Accent was VERY impressed by its (my perceived) build quality; I felt it was better than Nissan.
But I am surprised at seeing Acura ranked below Honda.
Greatsmile, the Legend (particularly the 6MT coupe) was ahead of its time. It truly is it's namesake. However, its now hard to find one (here in NJ) that hasnt been ghetto customized.
Peace.
But I am surprised at seeing Acura ranked below Honda.
Greatsmile, the Legend (particularly the 6MT coupe) was ahead of its time. It truly is it's namesake. However, its now hard to find one (here in NJ) that hasnt been ghetto customized.
Peace.
05-06-2004, 10:21 AM
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I agree with the Hyundai getting better in quality. I was at the Toronto Auto Show and I sat in some of them. There materials are first rate by touch. Nissan interior quality was much lacking. Even the Inifinite quailty was bad.
Yes, the Legend was ahead of its time. I liked the looks of the last coupe version. And yes, good like in finding a Legend.
Yes, the Legend was ahead of its time. I liked the looks of the last coupe version. And yes, good like in finding a Legend.
Originally Posted by VQ35DE
Has anyone considered that maybe the other makes (i.e.: Hyundai) got better?? When I drove my cousin's 99 Accent was VERY impressed by its (my perceived) build quality; I felt it was better than Nissan.
But I am surprised at seeing Acura ranked below Honda.
Greatsmile, the Legend (particularly the 6MT coupe) was ahead of its time. It truly is it's namesake. However, its now hard to find one (here in NJ) that hasnt been ghetto customized.
Peace.
But I am surprised at seeing Acura ranked below Honda.
Greatsmile, the Legend (particularly the 6MT coupe) was ahead of its time. It truly is it's namesake. However, its now hard to find one (here in NJ) that hasnt been ghetto customized.
Peace.
05-06-2004, 07:21 PM
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american workers
oh dont go bashing american workers, they work within the system that is in place. If the american worker is the fault for quality issues then the american and japanese managers should do something about it. Workers will do what their managers and systems allow ( I am a manager) These quality issues have to have roots somewhere in cost cutting.
Either way I am looking at a lexus IS 300 or GS 300 I will not step foot on an acura lot. bye bye tl type s
05-06-2004, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by atl-abp
These quality issues have to have roots somewhere in cost cutting.
Agreed. Deep very deep roots in cost cutting at the expense of loyal repeat buyers who will repeat no more. The profits earned by cost cutting will be negated by the customers Acura will lose in doing so
. As far as Hyundai is concerned, their spokesperson said that they will catch up to Toyota quality standards in seven years..... 
??? In seven years Toyota will be milestones ahead of them as they are already ahead of Hyundai.
05-16-2004, 02:45 AM
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I agree with most of the people here, as my 2K TL is full of squeaks and rattles the dealership can't and won't fix. No more acura for me. I can't believe how much crap I've had to go through since buying this car.
05-16-2004, 10:43 AM
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I thought my '02 TLs was made in Georgia... I gotta check on that.
Oh, and I am proud to be an American - dont get me wrong. But anything we build here that we should be proud of, sucks! Seriously...
Oh, and I am proud to be an American - dont get me wrong. But anything we build here that we should be proud of, sucks! Seriously...
05-16-2004, 10:57 AM
#38
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Totally.. my F22 sqeaks likes a mother, you don't hear that on Mig27s. Totally unacceptable. Plus, my tank is a gas guzzler. My volvo gets much better mileage. Stupid BMW X5/X4 quality is crap also. Stupid fat lazy americans.
05-16-2004, 11:00 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by Seotaji
I agree with most of the people here, as my 2K TL is full of squeaks and rattles the dealership can't and won't fix. No more acura for me. I can't believe how much crap I've had to go through since buying this car.
A Hyundai owner is not going to be complaining about rattles and squeaks presumably as much as an Acura owner.
So does the survey show that a Hyundai is higher quality than an Acura? No of course not, it shows that customers generally were more satisfied with their Hyundais than customers were with their Acuras in terms of problems within the first year or however long it tracks for.
The thing you should look at here is that a Hyundai may get more rattles and squeaks than an Acura, but people are paying $10-20K less for the Hyundai. You're paying Acura for the quality that you're not getting... Note how high Lexus ranks? When you're paying the extra money for luxury and reliability, you should expect more.
So while the survey maybe a little bit skewed in terms of how people will intepret it, if you think about it ... what it really shows is that when compared with a brand that is in the same category (BMW, Benz, Lexus, Infiniti)... How does Acura compare? The site for the 2004 IQA is down right now and I don't remember what the rankings were, but I think I'll probably be looking at a Lexus next go-around. My 2003 TL-S has had very few problems so far, but things like the transmission problem really make me worried about Acura's reliability in the long term.