87 89 91?
04-11-2009, 05:47 PM
#2
wut.
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If you're not boosted, stay with 87. Or else you'll be wasting money.. but if it makes you THINK that you are going faster.. then why not. 
Last edited by CG2PROJECT; 04-11-2009 at 05:50 PM.
04-11-2009, 06:30 PM
#6
2003 TL-p
91 ftw
04-11-2009, 06:47 PM
#7
i go 91 vpower, stable mpg and no pinging ever, orig coil packs with 145000miles
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04-11-2009, 06:55 PM
#9
The problem is that 87 octane will prevent your engine from running up to it's rated output. The TL (Gen 3) employs an 11:1 compression ration that will cause detonation (ping, knock) with lower octane gas.
In order to prevent potential serious engine damage, Honda uses a knock sensor that retards the ignition when lower octane fuel is used. And what they don't tell you is that continuous use of lower octane gas in an engine made for premium gas will likely cause carbon buildup in the cylinders & on the pistons...with a contiumous diet of 87 gas, the car's going to run sluggish.
Then carbon buildup creates 'hot spots' on the pistons that tend to lead to even more detonation problems, meaning the knock sensor will retard the ignition even more to prevent this.It's best to stick with premium fuel with the TL...a tank of 87 here & there in emergencies shouldn't be a problem.
In order to prevent potential serious engine damage, Honda uses a knock sensor that retards the ignition when lower octane fuel is used. And what they don't tell you is that continuous use of lower octane gas in an engine made for premium gas will likely cause carbon buildup in the cylinders & on the pistons...with a contiumous diet of 87 gas, the car's going to run sluggish.
Then carbon buildup creates 'hot spots' on the pistons that tend to lead to even more detonation problems, meaning the knock sensor will retard the ignition even more to prevent this.It's best to stick with premium fuel with the TL...a tank of 87 here & there in emergencies shouldn't be a problem.
04-11-2009, 07:37 PM
#10
i use 89 on my 03t-p and runs good and gets good gas milage.
if i run 89 in my 02tl-s my gas mileage goes down about 7 mpg and i dont feel the same amount of power.
the ecu will take control and minimize the knock but over time it will happen.
if i run 89 in my 02tl-s my gas mileage goes down about 7 mpg and i dont feel the same amount of power.
the ecu will take control and minimize the knock but over time it will happen.
04-11-2009, 10:19 PM
#11
the problem is long term damage to things like the valves and valve seats
Unless you have torn this engine down for inspection, or at least done a full boroscope camera inspection inside,,,you cant say that its fine
The high compression engine needs the right octane- higher octane gas provides the needed additives that prevent precombustion--the gas igniting BEFORE the piston reaches top of its stroke--
thats really hard on the rod bearings and overall performance
Sure a honda runs on 87.. with its 8 to 1 compression
The TL with 9.5 or TypeS with 11-1 should be run on what the engineers designed the system for
Unless you have torn this engine down for inspection, or at least done a full boroscope camera inspection inside,,,you cant say that its fine
The high compression engine needs the right octane- higher octane gas provides the needed additives that prevent precombustion--the gas igniting BEFORE the piston reaches top of its stroke--
thats really hard on the rod bearings and overall performance
Sure a honda runs on 87.. with its 8 to 1 compression
The TL with 9.5 or TypeS with 11-1 should be run on what the engineers designed the system for
04-12-2009, 12:39 AM
#15
Volks FTW!!!
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ha i wish we had 93 here at the pump. anyone who says 87 is fine and suggesting it to other people should do some research before talking. i purposely got 87 a few times in a row to see if there's a difference and for sure there is. you can feel it at vtec and gas mileage dropped by 27 miles.
if you can't afford 91, then you shouldn't be driving a tl. get a civic that will thrive on 87.
if you can't afford 91, then you shouldn't be driving a tl. get a civic that will thrive on 87.
04-12-2009, 12:44 AM
#16
I used round numbers for compression,, as oft reported on here rajca
If you have specific knowledge, I bow to your greater understanding of this particular engine
If you have specific knowledge, I bow to your greater understanding of this particular engine
04-12-2009, 07:40 AM
#19
Senior Moderator
I lost on average 30 to 70 miles a tank (when combined with the 10% ethanol crap added to the fuel) on my TL-p I wont even consider 87 for the S-motor.
04-12-2009, 11:23 AM
#20
Volks FTW!!!
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04-12-2009, 11:36 AM
#21
Three Wheelin'
I've had no problems over the last 40-50K running 87oc. I did a lot of research on the topic and discovered that premium branded cars with the same compression motors get slapped with premium gas requirements. The most logical connection is not power related by rather marketing.
Honda makes a 10.5:1 Accord motor, runs on regular. Yet my 9.8:1 2000 TL requires premium. The higher oc gas prevents detonation, burns cleaner and has less energy in it then regular gas. It costs approximately 10% more to run 91 vs. 87. The dollars premile are lower when you run 87.
Math
30mpg on 91 $2.50gal 8.3c/mile
30mpg on 87 $2.25gal 7.5c/mile
If a honda motor, with a higher compression and similar HP output will pump regular gas there is no reason why my 2000 TL cannot.
If you go and do the research there are articles that interview a bunch of major industry figures from Porsche, to Toyota about gas. All state you can pump what you like, even on the 400-500hp Porsche.
Now all that said, some people state their 87 oc makes their car run poorly, it has not been my personal experience. However I've only purchased gas in the following states CA,AZ,NV,OR,WA so I cannot speak for every state. However IF there is a performance difference I don't notice it and I run some of the highest MPG on this board.
Take it all with a gain of salt. If you have a 11.1:1 motor you might consider staying with premium fuel. However it doesn't poorly affect our 05 RL with an 11.1:1 compression and MPG has not suffered.
We do however properly maintain our cars, with regular service and regular fuel system cleanings. We drive both city and freeway. So it's your call.
Honda makes a 10.5:1 Accord motor, runs on regular. Yet my 9.8:1 2000 TL requires premium. The higher oc gas prevents detonation, burns cleaner and has less energy in it then regular gas. It costs approximately 10% more to run 91 vs. 87. The dollars premile are lower when you run 87.
Math
30mpg on 91 $2.50gal 8.3c/mile
30mpg on 87 $2.25gal 7.5c/mile
If a honda motor, with a higher compression and similar HP output will pump regular gas there is no reason why my 2000 TL cannot.
If you go and do the research there are articles that interview a bunch of major industry figures from Porsche, to Toyota about gas. All state you can pump what you like, even on the 400-500hp Porsche.
Now all that said, some people state their 87 oc makes their car run poorly, it has not been my personal experience. However I've only purchased gas in the following states CA,AZ,NV,OR,WA so I cannot speak for every state. However IF there is a performance difference I don't notice it and I run some of the highest MPG on this board.
Take it all with a gain of salt. If you have a 11.1:1 motor you might consider staying with premium fuel. However it doesn't poorly affect our 05 RL with an 11.1:1 compression and MPG has not suffered.
We do however properly maintain our cars, with regular service and regular fuel system cleanings. We drive both city and freeway. So it's your call.
Last edited by rob-2; 04-12-2009 at 11:39 AM.
04-12-2009, 08:07 PM
#26
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I've had no problems over the last 40-50K running 87oc. I did a lot of research on the topic and discovered that premium branded cars with the same compression motors get slapped with premium gas requirements. The most logical connection is not power related by rather marketing.
Honda makes a 10.5:1 Accord motor, runs on regular. Yet my 9.8:1 2000 TL requires premium. The higher oc gas prevents detonation, burns cleaner and has less energy in it then regular gas. It costs approximately 10% more to run 91 vs. 87. The dollars premile are lower when you run 87.
Math
30mpg on 91 $2.50gal 8.3c/mile
30mpg on 87 $2.25gal 7.5c/mile
If a honda motor, with a higher compression and similar HP output will pump regular gas there is no reason why my 2000 TL cannot.
If you go and do the research there are articles that interview a bunch of major industry figures from Porsche, to Toyota about gas. All state you can pump what you like, even on the 400-500hp Porsche.
Now all that said, some people state their 87 oc makes their car run poorly, it has not been my personal experience. However I've only purchased gas in the following states CA,AZ,NV,OR,WA so I cannot speak for every state. However IF there is a performance difference I don't notice it and I run some of the highest MPG on this board.
Take it all with a gain of salt. If you have a 11.1:1 motor you might consider staying with premium fuel. However it doesn't poorly affect our 05 RL with an 11.1:1 compression and MPG has not suffered.
We do however properly maintain our cars, with regular service and regular fuel system cleanings. We drive both city and freeway. So it's your call.
Honda makes a 10.5:1 Accord motor, runs on regular. Yet my 9.8:1 2000 TL requires premium. The higher oc gas prevents detonation, burns cleaner and has less energy in it then regular gas. It costs approximately 10% more to run 91 vs. 87. The dollars premile are lower when you run 87.
Math
30mpg on 91 $2.50gal 8.3c/mile
30mpg on 87 $2.25gal 7.5c/mile
If a honda motor, with a higher compression and similar HP output will pump regular gas there is no reason why my 2000 TL cannot.
If you go and do the research there are articles that interview a bunch of major industry figures from Porsche, to Toyota about gas. All state you can pump what you like, even on the 400-500hp Porsche.
Now all that said, some people state their 87 oc makes their car run poorly, it has not been my personal experience. However I've only purchased gas in the following states CA,AZ,NV,OR,WA so I cannot speak for every state. However IF there is a performance difference I don't notice it and I run some of the highest MPG on this board.
Take it all with a gain of salt. If you have a 11.1:1 motor you might consider staying with premium fuel. However it doesn't poorly affect our 05 RL with an 11.1:1 compression and MPG has not suffered.
We do however properly maintain our cars, with regular service and regular fuel system cleanings. We drive both city and freeway. So it's your call.
