400 HP rear wheel dr acura tl to be a reality!
06-19-2002 | 09:18 PM
#42
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,038
Likes: 0
From: Everywhere
C'mon, if the next TL would have 400hp, then next the RL must have 600hp or something
The RX 300 is still the best selling luxury SUV. Do not forget the "Acura" SLX. Maybe 47 models rolling around in 3 years.
Acura did take a while to develope its SUV line however, it is the most popular and in demand SUV on the market. If you are going to do something then do it right.
06-19-2002 | 10:52 PM
#43
Lead Footed
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,415
Likes: 15
From: Plano - Texas
Originally posted by Edward'TLS
One important thing you've overlooked is that STS is a touring sedan, not a sport sedan like the TL-S and the CTS. In other words, the STS is excellent at driving in a straight line, but will run off the cliffs if you pushes it on the twisties. This is what handling means.
The reason is simple. Torque steer is minimal when you punch it while the front wheels are straight, but becomes more apparent as the steering wheel angle becomes greater or the engine torque output (fwd) is greater. The effect is greatest when appling power to the front wheels while powering out from a tighter corner. To the extreme, the front end of the car will hop, not even slide into a spin. Remeber, the front wheels are doing double the work by having to steer and accelerate at the same time.
One important thing you've overlooked is that STS is a touring sedan, not a sport sedan like the TL-S and the CTS. In other words, the STS is excellent at driving in a straight line, but will run off the cliffs if you pushes it on the twisties. This is what handling means.
The reason is simple. Torque steer is minimal when you punch it while the front wheels are straight, but becomes more apparent as the steering wheel angle becomes greater or the engine torque output (fwd) is greater. The effect is greatest when appling power to the front wheels while powering out from a tighter corner. To the extreme, the front end of the car will hop, not even slide into a spin. Remeber, the front wheels are doing double the work by having to steer and accelerate at the same time.
No where did I mention comparing a TLS to a STS in the handling category. And if I did, you better check the numbers, the TLS is marginally better than the STS.
As for torque steer, better check out the later model STS. It has no more torque steer than the TLS. I know I've driven one.
Again, wuts yer point about the front wheels doing the same work? We are talking about a 300-400HP front wheel drive V6 being possible. And if your points are to prove it impossible, then wrong-o. It is possible.
So before you make a response personal by stating "you've overlooked" make sure you first understand what the discussion is about.
RUF
06-20-2002 | 02:52 PM
#44
Racer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: Hillsborough, NJ
Originally posted by Xorg
The car in question is a concept car called the DN-X, scheduled to replace the NSX around 2005.
The car in question is a concept car called the DN-X, scheduled to replace the NSX around 2005.
06-20-2002 | 04:10 PM
#45
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,202
Likes: 1,162
From: YVR
Originally posted by Ruf87
Please re-read my post. You've miss read it.
No where did I mention comparing a TLS to a STS in the handling category. And if I did, you better check the numbers, the TLS is marginally better than the STS.
As for torque steer, better check out the later model STS. It has no more torque steer than the TLS. I know I've driven one.
Again, wuts yer point about the front wheels doing the same work? We are talking about a 300-400HP front whe el drive V6 being possible. And if your points are to prove it impossible, then wrong-o. It is possible.
So before you make a response personal by stating "you've overlooked" make sure you first understand what the discussion is about.
RUF
Please re-read my post. You've miss read it.
No where did I mention comparing a TLS to a STS in the handling category. And if I did, you better check the numbers, the TLS is marginally better than the STS.
As for torque steer, better check out the later model STS. It has no more torque steer than the TLS. I know I've driven one.
Again, wuts yer point about the front wheels doing the same work? We are talking about a 300-400HP front whe el drive V6 being possible. And if your points are to prove it impossible, then wrong-o. It is possible.
So before you make a response personal by stating "you've overlooked" make sure you first understand what the discussion is about.
RUF
06-20-2002 | 10:13 PM
#46
If they squeezed 400hp out of a TL-S w/o forced induction .. they'd almost HAVE to increase the displacement, forcing them to go to a bigger block .. perhaps 4 Liters, and that would only serve to push the already nose heavy 62:38 ratio to .. who knows.. 65:35 or something like that.. they'd need to rework the chassis .. maybe go rwd to counter some of that weight w/ a hefty rear-diff.
I see them more realistically supercharging or even turbocharging the existing engine .. but they'd have to decrease the 9.8:1 compression to allow for the forced air ... free up some room in the engine bay for an intercooler ... etc..
I'd LOVE to see it happen .. oh yeah, and have Mack develop of bullet proof transmission for Acura.. cuz Acura can't do it for themselves.
Hell... just go manual
I see them more realistically supercharging or even turbocharging the existing engine .. but they'd have to decrease the 9.8:1 compression to allow for the forced air ... free up some room in the engine bay for an intercooler ... etc..
I'd LOVE to see it happen .. oh yeah, and have Mack develop of bullet proof transmission for Acura.. cuz Acura can't do it for themselves.
Hell... just go manual
06-20-2002 | 10:26 PM
#47
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Originally posted by BigPimping
400 horsepowers rear wheel drive on the tls.
<Cough>bullsh!t</cough>
Keep dreamin buddy
400 horsepowers rear wheel drive on the tls.
<Cough>bullsh!t</cough>
Keep dreamin buddy
yeah your right......acura will nevr make a better car than infiniti.......like all of your other stupid posts:thefinger
06-20-2002 | 10:31 PM
#48
Lead Footed
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,415
Likes: 15
From: Plano - Texas
Originally posted by Edward'TLS
Yes. Is a 300-400 hp front wheel drive V6 being possible ? It is possible. But my concern is : will the car also handle ? The current TL/TL-S has a good sporty handling characteristic. I have yet to see a 300-400 hp front wheel drive "sport" sedan out there which receives good ratings on handling, not by you or me, but by the qualified automotive people.
Yes. Is a 300-400 hp front wheel drive V6 being possible ? It is possible. But my concern is : will the car also handle ? The current TL/TL-S has a good sporty handling characteristic. I have yet to see a 300-400 hp front wheel drive "sport" sedan out there which receives good ratings on handling, not by you or me, but by the qualified automotive people.
RUF
06-21-2002 | 08:01 AM
#49
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
DNX follow up. Here is some other info on the 4door 400hp AWD concept vehicle - Honda showed it off at the NYC car show back in March. I have no idea what vehicle it will replace but the technology on this baby is wild = :wow:
http://www.hondabeat.com/news/dnx_concept.cfm
Any news of the 2004 TL S out there?
http://www.hondabeat.com/news/dnx_concept.cfm
Any news of the 2004 TL S out there?
06-21-2002 | 08:23 AM
#50
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 45
From: MA
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
C'mon, if the next TL would have 400hp, then next the RL must have 600hp or something
The RX 300 is still the best selling luxury SUV. Do not forget the "Acura" SLX. Maybe 47 models rolling around in 3 years.
C'mon, if the next TL would have 400hp, then next the RL must have 600hp or something
The RX 300 is still the best selling luxury SUV. Do not forget the "Acura" SLX. Maybe 47 models rolling around in 3 years.
06-24-2002 | 03:35 AM
#51
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
A 400hp TL just makes no market sense, and Acura has never been the company to go there. I mean come on, a Ferrari 360 Modena doesnt have 400hp!
The most believable rumor - and it also "came straight from Acura", is that the new TL will be a downgraded RL, rather than an upgraded Accord. If true, it probably remains V6, but becomes RWD. Imagine around 240-260hp for the TL-P and 275-290 for the TL-S. Fits perfectly into the designated market position.
The rumor of the NSX getting the dualnote powertrain surfaced last year when that powertrain was shown in the DN-X, and for a while was stated as the gospel truth. Before that, the gospel truth "straight from Acura" was that it would get a 400hp+ V-10. The latest news from Motortrend, nsxprime, etc, is a ~400hp V-8, possibly still midship, but also possibly moving to FR.
What is known is that all these ideas, and undoubtedly others, have been talked about at the design shops and engineering labs of Honda. Honda however is very good at keeping things as rumor until the car shows up in a spy photo a few months before release. Even then, no one is quite sure (look at the recent flood of fake Accord sightings).
Personally, I believe that we'll see the TL staying a V6 but getting the RL platform in 04, and the NSX showing up with around 400hp from a midship V8. I can't wait to do head-to-head test comparisons of the new NSX and the M6
The most believable rumor - and it also "came straight from Acura", is that the new TL will be a downgraded RL, rather than an upgraded Accord. If true, it probably remains V6, but becomes RWD. Imagine around 240-260hp for the TL-P and 275-290 for the TL-S. Fits perfectly into the designated market position.
The rumor of the NSX getting the dualnote powertrain surfaced last year when that powertrain was shown in the DN-X, and for a while was stated as the gospel truth. Before that, the gospel truth "straight from Acura" was that it would get a 400hp+ V-10. The latest news from Motortrend, nsxprime, etc, is a ~400hp V-8, possibly still midship, but also possibly moving to FR.
What is known is that all these ideas, and undoubtedly others, have been talked about at the design shops and engineering labs of Honda. Honda however is very good at keeping things as rumor until the car shows up in a spy photo a few months before release. Even then, no one is quite sure (look at the recent flood of fake Accord sightings).
Personally, I believe that we'll see the TL staying a V6 but getting the RL platform in 04, and the NSX showing up with around 400hp from a midship V8. I can't wait to do head-to-head test comparisons of the new NSX and the M6
06-24-2002 | 12:49 PM
#52
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Originally posted by juniorbean
I got news for you all... IF Acura is making a RWD 400hp car... it will be the new RL... not the TL. I don't expect the TL will have more then 300hp when it gets redesigned.....
I got news for you all... IF Acura is making a RWD 400hp car... it will be the new RL... not the TL. I don't expect the TL will have more then 300hp when it gets redesigned.....
The Car Mags have been talking about a 400hp RL to go up against the 340 Q45 and 300+? LS430 for about 2 years. Futher rumoring was that same as NSX engine so it's to be a V8.
06-24-2002 | 04:17 PM
#53
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
LOS ANGELES -- A senior Honda Motor Co . executive said the No. 2 Japanese auto maker likely won't build a V8 engine unless it could improve the engine's fuel economy and emissions beyond the industry's norm.
He said one way to address the lack of V8 powertrain options in Honda vehicles may be to create a propulsion system that combines a V6 engine with an electric motor to offer V8-like power.
Tomoyuki Sugiyama, an executive chief engineer of Honda's research arm in Japan , said in an interview here that Honda remains apprehensive about making a V8 engine if it is the kind that guzzles gas.
Some Honda dealers have been asking Honda to offer V8 engines, but the company has insisted that its sales of full-size vehicles aren't large enough to justify a new family of big engines. Other dealers also want Honda to build pickup trucks, a move that could justify developing a V8 engine. Honda admits it has " studied" the possibility of developing pickup trucks, but Yuzuru Matsuno, a Honda spokesman in Detroit , said the auto maker hasn't made a final decision on the possibility. Honda isn't likely to enter the pickup-truck market any time soon, he added.
Mr. Sugiyama said that as a corporate strategy, Honda "tries to put a higher priority on safety and environmental friendliness" over sheer power. "We won't likely develop V8 engines unless we can come up with a technical solution to their fuel economy and emissions" and make them a standout in the industry.
One solution the company is considering, Mr. Sugiyama said, is to try to create a V6 engine that can put out V8-like power, instead of trying to develop a cleaner and more economical V8 powertrain.
"That's one direction we could take," he said.
-Norihiko Shirouzu, The Wall Street Journal; 313-510-5886
He said one way to address the lack of V8 powertrain options in Honda vehicles may be to create a propulsion system that combines a V6 engine with an electric motor to offer V8-like power.
Tomoyuki Sugiyama, an executive chief engineer of Honda's research arm in Japan , said in an interview here that Honda remains apprehensive about making a V8 engine if it is the kind that guzzles gas.
Some Honda dealers have been asking Honda to offer V8 engines, but the company has insisted that its sales of full-size vehicles aren't large enough to justify a new family of big engines. Other dealers also want Honda to build pickup trucks, a move that could justify developing a V8 engine. Honda admits it has " studied" the possibility of developing pickup trucks, but Yuzuru Matsuno, a Honda spokesman in Detroit , said the auto maker hasn't made a final decision on the possibility. Honda isn't likely to enter the pickup-truck market any time soon, he added.
Mr. Sugiyama said that as a corporate strategy, Honda "tries to put a higher priority on safety and environmental friendliness" over sheer power. "We won't likely develop V8 engines unless we can come up with a technical solution to their fuel economy and emissions" and make them a standout in the industry.
One solution the company is considering, Mr. Sugiyama said, is to try to create a V6 engine that can put out V8-like power, instead of trying to develop a cleaner and more economical V8 powertrain.
"That's one direction we could take," he said.
-Norihiko Shirouzu, The Wall Street Journal; 313-510-5886
So there'll be no V8 PERIOD! The best you will see from Honda is V6 + IMA.
Los Angeles-- Despite the auto industry's revived interest in V-8 engines and rear-wheel-drive cars, Honda Motor Co. Ltd. will stand by its contrarian reputation and resist both trends, a top engineer says.
Honda says smaller engines and front-wheel-drive vehicles fit the company's environmental conscience. But some industry watchers say that V-8s and rwd cars would be too costly for Honda.
Tomoyuki Sugiyama, executive chief engineer of Honda R&D Co. Ltd., said Honda can make its V-6 engines powerful enough to take on V-8s and make its fwd platforms as performance-oriented as other automakers' rwd vehicles.
Honda says smaller engines and front-wheel-drive vehicles fit the company's environmental conscience. But some industry watchers say that V-8s and rwd cars would be too costly for Honda.
Tomoyuki Sugiyama, executive chief engineer of Honda R&D Co. Ltd., said Honda can make its V-6 engines powerful enough to take on V-8s and make its fwd platforms as performance-oriented as other automakers' rwd vehicles.
This should put aside all speculations.
06-24-2002 | 08:00 PM
#54
Racer
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
>>I see them more realistically supercharging or even turbocharging the existing engine
this i highly unlikely from honda, IMO, because Honda has always being known for having high output from NA small-displacement engines
i also think it's very unlikely Honda will make the new TL RWD, because any way you look at it, the TL is still a mid-size sedan, just a really fast one, RWD is just not that practical for a sedan, because of it's cost, weight, and the fact that it makes a big lump in the rear floor
this i highly unlikely from honda, IMO, because Honda has always being known for having high output from NA small-displacement engines
i also think it's very unlikely Honda will make the new TL RWD, because any way you look at it, the TL is still a mid-size sedan, just a really fast one, RWD is just not that practical for a sedan, because of it's cost, weight, and the fact that it makes a big lump in the rear floor
06-25-2002 | 03:54 AM
#55
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
No RWD Hondas either huh, then whats the S2000? Thats BS. The RL will move to RWD as will other Honda/Acura products in the near future. The RL will also get a v8 or much sronger v6 to put it in the same market with the Q45 and the LS430.
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