Waukesha

I have 2001 TL with about 200K miles. My issue is an intermittent no start/crank situation. When I turn the key to “on” all the dash lights will all come on like normal, including the immobilizer light, but when I turn to “start” I sometimes get a few second pause before the starter cranks and sometimes I have to turn the key multiple times until the starter cranks. From internet research I have replaced the starter motor, starter relay, and ignition switch. After each part replacement the car starts normally for about 2 days, then decays back to intermittent starting issues.

At the same time this issue began I also had a handful of incidents when I couldn’t shift out of park. This has happened even after the car was started. I’ve tapped the brakes multiple times thinking it was the brake switch and no change. I had to turn the car off, then start again, and I could then shift out of park. I figure this might be a clue????? Any thoughts?

619rcr

Trace the starting circuit wiring diagram. its not very complex. pull the relay & have someone help you turn the key to start while checking the gnd signal is being applied to the relay on the coil side of the relay. it should apply only in neutral and park. so if you can't start in park try neutral.
if you cant figure out the wiring. listen for clicking at the relay when set to start.

Waukesha

Thanks 619rcr,

I did measure power to the starter relay before I replaced it. I was getting voltage when turning the key, but that was always in Park. I even let the car sit for a few days and checking the voltage in the morning and nights with voltage always measured with the key turned to start. Hence I thought it was the relay. I haven't been able to test the crank in neutral because I can't shift out of Park when there is a no crank status. At least as of now. I will keep trying to shift out of park every time the starter wont crank. It seems to give me a no-start condition every time I try to start now.

619rcr

cant speak to the shifter sticking. but my guess would be you have a binding linkage or gear selector lever. might want to check at the trans side. pull the cable off and see if it can move manually.
the thing I was wondering was whether you are getting the gnd signal at the relay contact?
not sure which pin(s) you measured power at. but the way the relay works is power is always on one leg of the coil either 85 or 86 and gnd will be applied from the remote switch. this activates the coil winding and sends power to the normally open leg. power then goes thru to the output pin. probably 87a. 87 is sometimes not there or no contact because its the off position where no power transfers.

Waukesha

To check the relay, I use a voltmeter to measure the voltage on the switch pins of the relay. I put one probe in each switch pin’s receptacle. With the key in the off and on position, the meter read 0 volts. When the key was turned to the “start” position the meter read 12.7volts. I considered that working properly. Now that I think about it, I was just measuring power to the relay switch, but did not confirm the switch actually worked. But I replaced with a new one so I feel the relay is working.

I may have a new clue. Today I turned and held the key in the “start” position with no crank. The shifter would not move out of Park. I wiggled the shifter while holding the key in “start.” The starter eventually kicked in. I can’t tell if its coincidence or causal but could whatever mechanism that releases the shifter to move out of park be malfunctioning? If so, would that prevent the starter from cranking??? Or is that the brake pedal sensor???

619rcr

I would say that is likely the area to investigate further. The GND signal I was asking about comes from the A/T Gear position switch to complete the winding circuit that activates the relay. I attached a picture of the starting circuit wiring from a 2G CL AT, it's probably the same.

There's a few fuses to check. After that suggestion is to pull the relay and disconnect the gear switch electrical connector. Then check continuity on the blue with white stripe wire from relay box to gear switch side. Also check continuity from black wire on shifter to bare metal, like a bolt head or piece of sheet metal.

Waukesha

I haven't had the opportunity to check continuity from the relay to the gear switch. It looks like I need to remove the front driver's wheel to access the park neutral switch. But I did get more clues......I found the shifting override mechanism. When I got a few no crank/starts, I could manually shift to neutral, then start successfully. Its only been a few times and it could be coincidence but if this trend continues, do you agree the park neutral switch is the most likely culprit?

619rcr

way I see it, you have a mechanical selector issue at either end, or the signal wire from the switch to the relay. temp fix may be just to gnd the wire on the relay circuit that would normally be gnded in park or neutral. the drawback is it will start in any gear. so be careful

mikes black ac

wiggle the gear selector like i do to get er started..neutral safety switch needs replacing or adjustment or something...more work i gotta do.

Waukesha

Thanks to all as I believe the Neutral Safety Switch /Range Sensor solved the problem. Since the replacement there has been zero hesitation when starting. If there are no more entries to this thread, then this was the solution. 619rcr - thank you for the schematic!

For anyone else replacing this for a 2001 TL, please note the connector to the wire harness is located under the hood and needs to be removed from the bracket before it can be disconnected. The tab keeping the connector to the bracket is facing the firewall hence very difficult to remove the connector. I had to bend the bracket 90 degrees so I could see it properly. Once removed from the bracket, the connector disconnects like any other connector. Good luck!!!

mikes black ac

good to know,glad it worked out for you.i have to do the same with mine someday,i have other issues i need to fix first.now i'll know how to fix it.mine does the same thing when starting,but in addition to that mine is constantly clicking as i drive turning the led indicator for whatever gear i'm in on and off..also i don't always see the gear i'm in when i shift to manual mode..