DivideByGyro

I've had my 2000 TL for about 2 months (151K miles) and am not entirely familiar with what mileage I should be getting, but from what I've seen on other threads, it should be significantly higher. I've driven less than 2000 miles since getting it in October and have tracked the MPGs over the weeks to see what I'm getting, trying to discover any issues that may be related to my low MPGs. To date, I have done the following:

5W-30 Royal Purple Oil & RP filter
1x3 DW-1 transmission drain & fill (seller told me it was replaced about 5K miles ago, but unsure if was genuine Honda)
Transmission Bypass Filter
New NGK Iridium Plugs
PCV Valve replacement
Air Intake Manifold/EGR port cleaning
Seafoam 1500 miles ago
Short Ram Air intake with AEM filter

I suspect it may be leaking fuel, as the fuel needle seemed to drop when parked (took pictures, but results were inconclusive) and I've checked the tire pressure every week. I've always put in 93 Octane (initially suspected bad gas), I don't have a lead foot, and usually keep the revs under 2K but my most recent mpg calculation was city driving. There is only 1 small engine leak close to the firewall (trying to determine what it is and how to repair, been a bit busy and cold lately), but it doesn't leave a puddle under the car or in the engine bay. I'm also not carrying around any significant weight.

I understand that mpgs tend to drop in colder weather, but I don't have a baseline to determine what the MPGs should be. What's the next step?

Nicks2001tl

Throttle Body cleaning, Egr Port and Egr Valve cleaning, Iacv valve cleaning. Valve adjustment. 12.8 mpg is way to low.


Something Is gunked up!

ErickUa5

You should be able to smell fuel if theres an open somewhere
Does it have a CEL on ?
Have you had a look at your brakes? if a pad is dragging on the rotor it will slow the car down making you give it more gas
I believe the intake setup you have might give you less mpg's also.

3.2TLc

Welcome Dividebygyro !!!
~Many things can affect a car's actual MPG, including city driving and colder weather as ya previously mentioned.
~If there is indeed a leak within the car's fuel system, you would either smell it or see evidence of it leaking.
~Is there a CEL on ? If so, get the codes read and tell us what they are. Maybe something is gunked up or an O2 sensor is bad ?
~Try to find the source of whatever is leaking out of the motor. This may be important.
~It's possible that somebody is stealing your gas if it's parked outside.

Nicks2001tl

More info and updates plz.

DivideByGyro

No gas smell. No CEL (doesn't light up when I start the car, is that normal?). Throttle body (and EGR) is clean. Haven't checked leaking hose but I'll look at it and check the Acura service manual.

Nicks2001tl

Car should get 21/29 mpg.

DivideByGyro

After further inspection, it appears that the brakes are dragging on both rear wheels. The car has wheel locks and didn't come with the key so I'll have to get them off to look at the brakes (Hammering a socket over them and using a breaker bar did not work, gonna have to try those emergency wheel lock sockets). Hopefully it's just a simple brake bleed job but there may be excessive wear on the pads and rotors so I might be getting new ceramic brakes sooner than I expected!

ErickUa5

Means the light is burned out its supposed to light up for 3 seconds before starting the engine. Hook up a scanner and check for codes let us know if theres any.

ErickUa5

Check that the E brake is not engaged even though the Brake light would pop up on the dash.

It also be the slide pins that are frozen for both sides or both rear calipers are frozen. Check everything before buying parts. Hope it helps

DivideByGyro

Yeah, I gotta get the wheel locks off before I can get more info and that has been another thing I've tried and failed a few times with. Thanks for you input, will update the thread when I find out more.

Nicks2001tl

Concerning rear brakes; If the pads have uneven wear on them upon inspection you will need new calipers. If not, grease the slides, check the rotors and always replace all brake components in pairs.

ErickUa5

Check the whole car the key can be anywhere, When I got mines it had a spare key right under the seat rails with a bunch of quarters just enough for a few beers lol

3.2TLc

They sell nut crackers that will split the locks if all else fails.

DivideByGyro

I swear, every time I let my brother borrow a car something goes wrong... The CEL decided to work and I have the code P1456. The gas cap is secured to 3 clicks so I know it's not that. I thought the transmission was acting up as the car would slow down and hesitate a bit when I took my foot off the accelerator, but I'm pretty sure it's the brakes frozen (at least 1, still unable to check brakes at this time).

3.2TLc

Could possibly be the EVAP purge control solenoid valve or the bypass valve ?

ErickUa5

Heres a link to what that code means.

http://engine-codes.com/p1456_acura.html

If its not the cap theres a leak somewhere within the system.

dbotteicher

I had p1457 which is a large leak, the canister shut valve was the problem. P1456 is a small leak so most likely replace your gas cap, if that doesn't solve the problem then work your way through the evap system. It is not the easiest thing to diagnose but also not the hardest thing either. Check all vacuum hoses for leaks also the shut valve sits on the canister with a crappy o ring seal maybe it is dry rotted creating a very slow leak. It is very hard to diagnose without being there just trying to give you ideas. Do you have a copy of the factory service manual? It will help in diagnosing, also I read that hondas get this code due to salt water corrosion of some of the electrical connections to the valves and solenoids under the car check all connections.

dbotteicher

there are so many little hoses that connect to the canister without a hose clamp or anything holding them at all. The smallest crack will throw a code so be slow and thorough checking all hoses. When my code came up I thought I was in trouble because itseems like a complex system but if you just check one thing at a time eventually you will find the leak

ErickUa5

Take a good look at the gas cap it has an O-ring seal if its damaged it doesn't matter how tight the cap is.

fsttyms1

the cheapest and easiest thing to try is a new gas cap, then pull the clock backup fuse to reset the CEL and see if it comes back on.

jr_deleon

iTrader: (3)

Maybe you should try this if you haven't already. When I got mine I got less mileage than the OP. Once I finally checked for codes I got a p1457. I ended up replacing the canister vent shut valve and the canister (broken where the shut valve attaches so the o-ring wouldn't seal). Once I did that and reset the code, I drove it for two weeks and observed 19.1 mpg (its a 1999 with a 4-speed).

Nicks2001tl

19.1 is kind of low. Are you just doing city driving?

jr_deleon

iTrader: (3)

Yeah. As far as the EPA ratings for the 1999 TL that I have seen, it should get 19 city/27 highway. One site (fueleconomy.gov) even says 17/25 but I highly doubt that's true. Must be a small sample of people). Even though its cold outside, it doesn't fall far from that. The worst I have gotten since the change is just under 18 and that was in September, with warm weather and occasional speeding to pass the <30mph drivers. All on 93 octane.

Nicks2001tl

City driving plus winter fuel plus idling the car to warm up in cold weather or stop and go traffic all contribute to being on lower mpg of the EPA estimates.


How`s the car driving?

jr_deleon

iTrader: (3)

So good that I don't believe the car is as old as it is. Smooth shifting and its still on its original trans and motor, according to the original owner. No idling problems or hesitation. Cant believe it has 202k

BetterBob

Have you tried to just re-set the CEL for "shits and giggles"?

If there is nothing obviously wrong... i would re set the computer and see if it helps. It takes a literal minute.

That's all i can think of given the above advice.

LowMiles_BlueTL

Some unscrupulous used car lots/private parties will remove the CEL light bulb if there is a problem with the car they can't fix, then sell it to an unsuspecting person.
All manufacturers have addressed this issue by making the CEL do a light check when you first turn the key to ON. If the bulb is out or someone removed it, you will instantly know. It's one of the first things you should check when thinking about buying a used car. And for us in California, it will not pass a smog check, which is required by law before selling a used vehicle, without the CEL light test.

LowMiles_BlueTL

Ask any tow truck driver, they usually have a tool to remove the locking nut without a key. Show them a $20 bill and they may help you. Have four regular nuts on hand when they do this and put those on in place of the locking nuts.

DivideByGyro

Update: 1/18

I decided to take it to the dealer for a brake inspection and my suspicions were right, both rear calipers have seized so I need new calipers, rotors and pads. There's no way I'm paying $1092.87 for that, so I'll be buying the parts and doing it myself (Thanks EricTheCarGuy!). Apparently the frame is bent which is making the left rear control arm loose (dealer wants $2556.98 to fix, Ha!)... All in all, from my $40 inspection fee, the dealer came up with $8K in repairs and service that they could do for me, and they didn't check everything (At least they took the wheel locks off, gave her a wash and I got to drive a 2014 RDX for the day).

SO, I'll start with the calipers, bleed the brakes and then do new pads and rotors all around. I've seen the Acurazine brake packages from XLR8, but don't want to spend performance money for a car I only spent $2100 on. Any suggestions for sub $200 brake kits all-around? Or should I be spending at least $265 for the lowest-tier Acurazine brake package? I really like the car, but I don't know if I will keep it with the suspension/steering/frame issues.


Full list of issues from the "brake inspection":
Rear Brake Pads, Rotors and Calipers: $1092.87
Left Rear Control Arm/Frame repair: $2556.98
Brake Light: $29.52
Timing Belt (Looks Brand new, but they have no record of it being replaced) $1240.49
Power Steering Pump: $320.66
Front Lower Ball Joints: $629.47
3 Tie rods: $1333.67
Front and rear sway bar links: 741.27

3.2TLc

Hey DivideByGyro, if ya truly like the car........but presently are unsure about some of the issues which the dealership "found" during their inspection of your car.......take the car to a local trustworthy independent shop for a second opinion on the stealership's list. Most alignment shops can fully evaluate the suspension/steering & frame issues and then provide ya with a more realistic estimate for any necessary repairs.

The dealership's pricing is totally ridiculous and IMO.....they just want to discourage ya with repairing the old TL and attempt to entice ya with buying a newer car from them. That's their true business..... primarily selling and servicing "new" cars under warranty.

So, in closing....if ya like your car, buy your own parts and DIY what ya can, then check around on prioritizing any other possible concerns to help determine the necessity and worth of such repairs on a $2100 car.