SpicyMikey

I'm interested in the PAX package but there are not many around these days in FLA. I haven't actually eyed one yet or test driven one. I've been in the other versions.

Any comments on the difference in handling, etc?

Also, what do these 18" wheels look like? Are they like the stock 17" wheels OR are they the upgraded "high performance" chrome look wheels in the RL accessory list? Wheels are important to me. The PAX package would DEFINITELY be worth it if it also had upgraded wheels.

Thanks

lland

The PAX wheels look identical to the stock 17" rims, just 1.1" bigger.

LL

SpicyMikey

Well that wasn't want I wanted to here, but thanks anyway LL.

Do you (or anyone) know if those Michelin 245/680 run-flats will fit on the optional 18" wheels offered? I understand the wheels are physically different in some way to accomodate the inside doughnut and clamping mechanism. Now I'm wondering if you get the PAX package if you are basically stuck with those wheels forever.

lland

"...if you get the PAX package if you are basically stuck with those wheels forever."

Yes. In addition to the donut inside the wheel, the siewalls are different and they need a special rim to hold the bead. If you want to change the wheels, you'll need to get a spare, trunk insert, hold down bolt, new wheel nuts (the PAX wheel nuts are different) and a few more assorted pieces. I was thinking about changing my wheels and prices this all out at just about $507 from a dealer who discounts parts (my local dealer doesn't). I may still do it when it's time for new tires. If youi're interested, I have a list of the parts and part numbers somewhere.

LL

SpicyMikey

Damn, I wanted the ACC and CMBS features. But, I also wanted the upgraded wheels as well as the full underbody spoilers.

I bought an 04 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited (for my alter ego) with that acc feature and fell in love with it. Won't buy a car anymore without it. Makes Cruise Control actually usable in the city and makes long drives 10 times easier. I can't understand why EVERY luxury vehicle on the road doesn't have that by now. Lexus offers it on the GS but try and find one on the lot equiped with it. Besides, the GS is ugly compared to the RL trimmed out with the wheels and spoilers. Looks tough. The GS/ES looks girly.

If you find the list go ahead and post it. I'll keep it handy in case I want to go down that road.

Chas2

As said above, the PAX wheels are unique 235 x 480A, which is the width in millimeters x the diameter in millimeters (approx 9.3 x 18.1). The A is for Asymmetrical (indicating a PAX tire system) because PAX has an asymmetry between the two beads. One bead is about an inch smaller in diameter than the other bead. Currently there are no optional wheels offered that I know of, nor any optional PAX tires other than the Pilot MXM4s, save the X-ICE winter PAX tires in the 245-680R-460A.

Now are you stuck with the PAX system forever? NO. As with anything, it just takes money.

Can you buy the ACC package without the PAX? Depends. Dealers I spoke with would not split up the package, one citing liability because it was not a standard Honda configuration, and the "suspension was tuned for the heavier PAX system"

However, I would also bet that if you wanted to spend $2500 on the A-Spec 18"wheels + new tires, they would be more than happy to take off the PAX for you, but doubt they would give you any credit for the PAX system. They would probably just give the "old" PAX back to you.

I have read of cases where the dealers would swap out the PAX for 17" standard system, but as I said, none of the three I spoke to were willing to do so.

You will have to change wheels, tires, add the spare and other bits as noted in order to make the change. The PAX TPMS have the same part number as the standard TPMS, but it would be cheaper to buy a new set of TPMS, because you would have to demount the PAX tire (very expensive) to get at the TPMS.

That being said, I love the ACC/CMBS/PAX combo. The PAX system seems to have better ride, handling and noise than the 17" standard wheels in back to back test drives. I thought it was just me, but several, across different forums (forii?) have noted the same thing. The PAX is equivalent to standard 245/45-R18 tires, which may be the difference.

Do not expect to be able to upgrade the suspension right now. Acura says the A-Spec suspension is not available/will not fit PAX equipped vehicles. In fact, the info sheet on the A-Spec suspension notes the "non fit" a footnote. Aftermarket companies do not know. I have never been able to find out why.

SpicyMikey

Just an update from my original question a couple weeks ago about these PAX tires.

Knowing now that these PAX tires are not compatible with standard wheels I decided to call around and see how available these oddballs are. I live in Orlando and inspite of this being a fairly large metro area there are only 3 dealers who have a tire changer for PAX within 20 miles of me (two Honda dealers and a Tire Kingdom). Dispite the claim by Michellin that the tires cost about 10-15% more, I found that these tires sell at about an 80% premium when you factor in installation. All the dealers were selling the tires for about $310 (versus maybe $180 for a comparable non-PAX tire). Also, they wanted between $100-$125 per tire to install. With all that, none of the Honda dealers even had any available. Tire Kingdom had 3 on the shelf. No Acura dealers in Orlando (there's 3) even have the tire changer.

So, it sounds like you're talking about $1700-$1800 for a new set if you can find them. That's more (way more) then I just paid to put a brand new set of Michelin 255/40Z's on my other car.

I love the CMBS/ACC feature on the top package. But I HATE this PAX system. Now that I see a class action suit has been filed against Honda and Michelin over these dogs (last month), I'm thinking they may dump (or at least make PAX a separate option) with the 08 model.

Anyone think Honda may back pedal a bit and make it optional next year or have they just made to much of a financial commitment now to walk away? This PAX idea is a good one but Michelin has been trying to jump start it for 8 years and it has not taken off. At some point Honda needs to cut bait and move on. It's actually going to hurt sales.

Chas2

That's what many Odyssey people (odyclub.com) have been saying all along, that they would rather forgo the extra features of the touring package, attractive as it may be, because of the PAX. Those that have the PAX have even resorted to buying standard RL wheels (because of the 5x120 PCD---MDX wheels are too expensive right now) so they can get rid of the PAX.

The Odyssey folks have often experienced premature wear on the LX4 PAX tires, like 12-25K. I have not seen much on the wear characteristics of the RL Pilot MXM4 tires.

The $100 install charge per tire sounds about what the Ody guys experience.

So far I love the ACC/CMBS, and I have no complaints about the PAX tires. I know the ride, handling is better and the noise is less than the standard 17 inch wheels and 50 series tires.

I am doing an ostrich with regrard to that decision to change or not one day when the PAXs are ready to go. I imagine it will be at least $3K to change to 18 inch wheels, OEM TPMS, tires, get a spare and tools.

Say does anyone know if MDX 18 x 8 wheels will fit the RL because of our front calipers? Also, how much do they weigh?

lland

Found the list:

* Trunk Spacer Assembly (Part number: 84542-SJA-A00)
* Adapter - Spare Tire (74651-S2x-003)
* Bolt - Spare Tire (74652-SDA-003
* Label - Spare Tire Adapter - Not really needed but cheap (74653-SJA-003)
* Nut - Wheel (90304-SJH-A91) - Need 20 of them or 16 and a set of wheel locks
* Disk Aluminum Wheel (this is the spare) - 17x4T (42700-SJA-J51)
* Valve - Rim (42753-SBB-661) - Need 4 unless you car reuse the valve stems from the PAX wheels. I don't know but at less than $1.00 each, might as well get new ones.
* You will also need TPM sensors if you can't or don't reuse the ones in the PAX assembly.

LL

SpicyMikey

Thanks buddy. I saved it for future reference.