RL06tech

I have a 2006 CMBS PAX. My tires are approacing the end of their life (for me its about 50% thread since snow traction is unacceptable beyond that) As its clear the PAX system is dead. I'm wondering if Acura will give me a credit to swap the four rims for regular 18inchers since the system is no longer in existence and it would simply be stupid for me to replace my tires with new PAX!!!! As we all know the new RL will have no PAX.

lland

The PAX system is still in existance. Michelin is no longer developing PAX but is still supporting it (based on their definition of "support"). There's also a class action lawsuit going on against Michelin, Acura, and Honda regarding the "promisies" made to purchasers of cars with the PAX system installed. Since PAX tires are still technically available, my guess is the dealer doesn't have to do anything to help you switch (you'll also need a spare, wheel nuts, and a few other goodies at more than $500) but may be willing to work with you. A while ago, my service guy (not my regular one) mentioned a trade in program where they take your used wheels and tires and replace them but I haven't heard anything about that anywhere else or from anyone else. Some people think that Acura and Honda will eventually develop a program to help PAX people make a switch but I've yet to hear anything from anyone other than car owners. You can probably get aftermarket rims and tires for the price of replacing the PAX but you will still be left without a spare.

BTW, how many miles did you get to the 50% level?

LL

Jackzilla

Depending on how quickly you need them, you can probably find a complete set of virtually new take-off wheels, tires and TPMS units on Ebay for maybe a little more than half what a set of PAX replacement tires will run. You will need a mini-spare and new lug nuts for some added cost, but the mini can also be found on Ebay and auto salvage sites for much less than list price.

And if time is not too much of a problem, there may even be '09 take-offs (18") on Ebay before too much longer.

My understanding is that PAX tires for the RL run about $320 ea., plus some excessively high charge for mounting and balancing (have heard $100 per wheel).
This may be all rumor and hearsay, but I'd bet a complete set will run at least $1500.

I have the PAX tires also, so I'll be very much interested in learning what you do.

Good luck!

sotiri

I called acura customer relations on this a few weeks ago.
I asked if they would compensate me with just 18" rims, so that I can be done with the PAX as they are essentially dead...
basically they laughed at me (yes, I heard the snicker) and was told NO.
IMO, after dealing with Acura on this issue, and getting absolutely no relief being that this is their flagship car, I am going to switch to either Lexus or MB after I have reached 5 years or 100,000 miles- which ever comes first.
Acura is no longer the car company it once was, and regardless of the virtues of this line of cars, I cannot and will not ever support a company that doesnt support its product.
Especially in light of just how important it is to have tires that can be repaired or replaced easily.

RL06tech

That is essentially the response I got
However, I do like my car and I need to replace the tires anyway.
I talked to my dealer, a set of 18 inch rims with Potenzas 960AS (very highly ranked all season high performance tire by tirerack) is going to set me back 3453 including everything. Before you get to angry consider that would be the price if you decided to get aftermarket stuff too!

RL06tech

I have 23K. My guess is that true replacement levels (>75%) would be around 40K. Most tires that are rated for snow use, be it snow or all season, completely lose their snow "ability" at around 50% (with all seasons significant reductions happen much earlier). In my expirience, essentially all tires have significantly degraded performance particularly in the wet at 50% too. The exception is summer tires the lower the tread the better in the dry, of course that is completely negated by very scary wet performance!

RL06tech

Check my response above, in general I'm going to bite the bullet and pay for the swap myself. I just think that replacing the tires which or plenty expensive would be a further silly investment in a dead system regardless whether Michelin and Acura say they will continue to "support it" which is simply a cop out to not replace them. Michelin did this before with the TRX tire "system" If you visit their website they still trumpet the they support it (more than a decade later), however who wants to be stuck with tires that might take a week to arrive when you need them??????? I really like the CMBS and ACC it sucked that they forced the PAX with them (which were very good IMO). Too bad that the system was a market failure. I also got rid of my PAX odyssey, swapped it for an MDX!

I also "lost" on the HDDVD vs Blueray competition, by luck, I only bought the 100 dollar Xbox player, my loss will be limited to about 15 HDDVD movies. However now that blue ray was the winner I splurged on sony's ES blueray player.

Chas2

I would be very interested to hear if you detect any difference in the rear suspension. For some reason, I am guessing weight, but I do not know. the rear dampers are different part numbers than the non PAX cars. The front dampers, springs and rear springs are the same part numbers.

I suspect there will be no differences.

By the way, does the $3500 include the spare?

Chas2

Which 18" wheels are you getting?

Jackzilla

RL06tech:
We all have to do what we determine is best for our own situation. Like you, I like the RL for its CMBS and ACC, but was never thrilled about the PAX tire system -- but also like you I plan to keep the car but not with the PAX tires. One difference, in my case, we bought our 2006 used and did not even realize it had PAX tires until after the purchase -- the VW dealer we bought it from apparently didn't even know what options were on the car.

In any case, my problem from day one, was the lack of available sources for servicing and replacing the tires if there was a problem. Now, with only "continuing support" from Michelin, I see the number of facilities capable of servicing the PAX system diminishing even further. And, unlike the TRX tires, highly specialized and dedicated equipment is needed for PAX. This does not bode well for the future

My own choice was to buy a complete set of virtually new take-offs from an Acura dealer in Atlanta -- complete and ready to go including factory balancing and all TPMS sending units. Cost was $800 plus shipping. Earlier, I had picked up a 2006 RL mini-spare on EBay for just $35. to have as a back-up to the PAX run-flats, because of fear of being caught out without anyone able to service a flat on the road. Turned out to be a good decision because all I needed then was the hold down for the spare and a set of standard wheel lugs.

Will be most interested in knowing, after you get your new wheel sets, what if any change you notice in the ride and/or handling. PAX cars apparently have different rear shocks and springs compared to RLs with standard wheels and tires.

Did the dealer you're working with suggest any suspension changes for your new wheels?

Chas2

I would be surprised if they knew. The Parts Manager and I figured that out on our own after 15 minutes of investigation and a bunch of searches to make sure that every interface for the A-Spec suspension and the PAX suspension were the same. It was never really documented anywhere, including in the A-Spec suspension info sheet.

neuronbob

$3453 for 18's and replacement tires from the dealer? (snicker)

You can buy the Acura 18's (A-Spec wheels) for $1300-1400 on eBay. Link. Even if you add in the $800-1000 for tires, you are $1000 less than what your dealer offers.

HTH.

BTW, moving to "tires, suspension, etc."

kmcheney

I'm in same boat as everyone else on this thread. Love the CMBS and ACC but was forced to take PAX with it. They haven't been bad tires at all. Good grip and decent wear. But, and this is a big deal to me, I worry whenever I'm on a long road trip about what I'll be faced with if I have a failure several hundred miles from home. How long will I have to wait for a tire? How badly will I be gouged since I'm in dire straits?

I like to have a little more control over my own fate so I'm looking to switch. The question is go with A-spec wheels, or Ronjons?

RL06tech

I'm getting the 18 inch optional chrome look wheels. BTW they are not available for the new 08's. The amount includes the "Donut" spare. I'm aware there are probably cheaper solutions but this way if anyting goes wrong its up to them to fix it (like the rear dampers). I'm also getting a few knicknacks fixed, the trunk opening button quit and one of my fogs is cracked (of course the fog is extra ARGGG).

gcook

I don't know there is that much price difference in pax and non pax on this size tire, is there? I thought 17" stock tires for my TL were like 250 or 275 or something.. It isn't like buying 15" tires for 50.00 each.. I have PAX and rotate them every 7500 so I can get the most out of them.. I like the idea of the tires, but the service on them is a realy pain.

RL06tech

As you I was satisfied with my Pax tire performance. They are, however, a little harsher on potholed roads. Their performance was actually quite good and IMO significantly better than the base configuration. I'll let you guys know how the swap for 18"s works out. Since the PAX system is a dead item I wanted to convert as fast as I could, getting them serviced will only be a greater pain in the butt as time goes on. IMO it would be moronic to put new PAX tires on once your set is up for replacement. I also got rid of my PAX tire Ody. In that instance I did have some vibration issues with a replacement set that were never completely solved.

dwboston

I like the tires themselves. I had an 05 with A-Spec wheels and Pirelli PZero Nero M+S tires and the PAX tires are a good compromise (handling-wise) between the A-Spec 18's and the stock 17" wheels. I have brought the PAX issue up with my dealer a few times - there is a tire service place a 1/2 mile away from my dealer with the PAX equipment that they use and they haven't had any issues getting replacements. The tire center stocks a few replacement sets for them for the RL and also for the Odyssey for the local Honda dealer. I still have only 10,000 miles on my 06 RL but will start piling up the miles in September when my company moves to RI and I have a 70 mile round-trip commute each day. I'll replace the PAX tires once around 30k miles, then look to trade the RL in 2010 when I get near 50,000 miles on the car. Maybe Acura will come up with something between now and then. I would be interested in a set of the 18" wheels from the 2009 RL with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S if the price was right.