bfeng

Let's get the formalities and full disclosure out of the way.
I work for Bose, specifically in the division that is responsible for all car audio.
I've been there since the new RL system design started ramping up. I happen to be on a first name basis with all the engineers (Bose and Acura) involved in the audio system for the new RL.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but there is an enormous amount of conjecture posing as fact in this forum ... not only related to Bose but also to acoustics and audio in general. I'll hazard to say that some of the most vocal and prolific posters on audio are the worst examples of this.

Anyway, although I am restricted in what I can say, I'd like to offer myself up to those of you who care to discuss Audio as it pertains to the new RL.

Feng

SodaLuvr

Great to have you here. Please discuss in these forums what you're company allows you to.

Ken1997TL

Welcome, we're all here for information, so please feel free to let us know

Malibu Flyer

Welcome aboard bfeng. Glad to have your insights.

Have you seen the thread on the Active Noise Cancellation? If there is any misinformation in that thread perhaps you could correct it.

It's a feature many of us don't really understand at all and correct information would be appreciated.

getakey

I would also like to hear your view on the ANC. On certain roads, the tire noise is so bad that people cannot hear me through the HFL phone link. Needless to say, the audio quality is affected as well. I would think tire noise would be something that ANC could take care of.

Rob L

I like the RL's audio system. Good design.

kgd

Feng, great to have you on the forum here.

One question I have. There was a tread earlier regarding the iPod adapter causing damage to the electronics in the 05 RL's. Beyond potentially doing something to the radio it seems remote that this could do any damage. I realize that you can't necessarily speak for Acura or Bose officially, but I am interested in you opinion on this. I have had this in my 05 for almost 3 months now and have had no problems with it, I absolutly love it.

Also, do you know if there were any changes to the 06 radio specifically to interface with the iPod adaptor. On the surface the iPod adapter seems to be installed and work identical for either the 05 or 06 models. It would be great if you could check with a few folks who are involved with the engineering on the head unit.

By the way, you guys have done a great job with this auido system. This is the first car I have purchased where I have not had a desire to look at after market alternatives.

Thanks,

Kris

bfeng

Active Noise Control:
There are a variety of methods, each arguably suitable for different genres of noise. The ANC used on the RL is designed to cancel one specific "harmonic" related to the engine's rotational speed (RPM). Here's a generic example. An in-line 4cyl engine has a natural tendency to exhibit a lot of 2nd harmonic vibration. At a 900rpm idle (equivalent to 15Hz), this 2nd harmonic will be at 30Hz (very deep bass tone). If the vehicle is not well designed enough, that 30Hz vibration turn into a 30Hz sound ... a boominess in the car. ANC, of the type on your cars, could be used to introduce 30Hz tones via the audio system. If the tones are of the opposite polarity from the engine noise, they cancel and the boominess is reduced. It's important to note that all this action works with ... tones (single notes), and not with random sounds (like wind rush noise or the roar of driving down a spalted concrete road).

Tire noise is very different than engine noise. Tire noise (road noise) consists of both harmonic and broadband types of energy. A different approach would be required to effectively combat tire noise. No such systems are currently available on the market as an OEM option, and I'm not aware of one available as an aftermarket system either.

That's about as much as I can say without getting into trouble at work.

Sound Quality: Thanks guys. We're really proud of the RL too.

Radio: The "headunit" (ala radio.navi unit) was not sourced from Bose. We provided the system design, speakers, amplifier, DSP algorithms ... and most dear to my heart, the 'tuning' of the components to suit the RL's acoustic character. I'll ask about the IPod adapter.

PRNole47

Is there a major *quality* difference in the audio system used by the '05 RL vs. the '06 TSX when it comes to Bluetooth?

I ask because I have no complaints about my RL's audio quality in listening to a caller, the caller's voice is as clear and noise-free in general as the sound system audio (ie., XM, CD, etc.), but...my wife's '06 TSX audio "cracks" all over the place when listening to a caller through her Bluetooth, while it appears to have no such problems with her sound system. We both use identical model cell phones through our respective car's Bluetooth system.

gbriank

I think the head unit is a Pioneer...same as the TL.

jftjr

Have you tried using the phones in each other's cars, to determine whether it's the phone or the car? That is, if you take her phone and pair it with your car, do you still have the crackling problem? Because it could just as easily be her bluetooth module (even though your phones are identical, hers could be defective) as her car's audio system.

petemc

Feng,

Congratulations on an excellent sound system in the RL, I was impressed even having had many after market tuned systems custom installed in previous vehicles.

Do you know how we would provide feedback on the system, with a hope to getting it even better, or making the next generation system better?

A couple of examples come to mind. First is the fact that the CD/DVD title display hardly ever works with standard CD and DVD discs because they don't include CD Text. A nice enhancement would be the ability for the user to define the CD name manually (similar to the way we input addresses in the NAV). Additionally, the display layout on the LCD screen is not optimized, and is far too much to the right which wastes space that could otherwise be used for additional title information.

It would be great to be able to feedback such information to anyone that could make a difference.

Cheers

Pete

bfeng

write a letter to Bose (www.bose.com) or directly to Acura.
Your feedback to Bose WILL get to the product planners at Honda.

bfeng

Nocturnal

One of my biggest gripes with the mp3 feature besides the inability to play DVDs with mp3s and lack of playlist support. Ok, ok, tags should be shown instead of file names

The screen layout was not designed by anyone who expected to actually USE what they were designing. Terribly wasteful with screen real-estate.

JMikeF

bfeng:
Thanks for the excellent writeup on the ANC in the RL.

The sound is very very good for well mastered CDs and DVDs. The Eagles DTS "Hell Freezes Over" is a sonic knockout in the RL! But, I'm disappointed with the very compressed sound of XM - no highs and a boomy, muddled bottom - worse I think than MP3. What could be nice would be the ability to adjust sound quality (hi-mid-low) for different inputs. I wouldn't mind even some 'sound processing curves' for XM/MP3 recording.

Nocturnal

I have no XM experience other than the RL. Could it be that the Xm signal is simply so compressed that there's not much that can be done after it has been received?

jhr3uva90

You can put your MP3 songs into a folder on a CD, which a de facto playlist.

kgd

Yes you can. I used to put mine in folders by artist. Now that I install the iPod adapter I haven't listened to CD's in the car for over 3 months.

JMikeF

I'd like to keep this thread alive.
I'm wondering about the different settings for the sound system. I spent yesterday trolling the TL forum, and there was an interesting post from a sound technician who commented that the Panny system in the TL was weak in the mid-bass, and provided a guide how to set the audio controls. Basically, one should not go more than 1 click away from the default for any setting.

I decided to follow his example, even though the RL system is by Bose. Here's what I dialed in:
> Bass - 1 click higher
> Treble - 1 click higher
> Front middle speaker - 1 click higher
> Subwoofer - 1 click higher
> All other settings at default (0)

I noticed a smoother, fuller sound, crisp but not artificial. Previously I had boosted the Treble about 3 clicks. I believe the secret here is to boost the front middle speaker by 1, and avoid boosting the bass and subwoofer more than 1 click from default.

What are your sound setting?

jftjr

Bass and treble flat (the tweeters are vicious when you turn them up...ugh) with the center speaker 1 click DOWN (I find it, too, to be unacceptably bright, and the soundstage sounds more natural to me with the center a bit lower in volume) and the subwoofer two clicks up.

JMikeF

Agreed!

acurafox

Does that mean the ANC noise cancellation signal "profile" is determined in advance from in-car measurements, or is it adaptive from a frequency standpoint? I agree that cancelling a broad spectrum of complex signals is much more challenging-have you guys considered developing a system that can do that? Also, is the magnitude of the ANC signal adaptive, or is it a fixed value?

Gator5000e

Does Bose have any involvment with the HFL sound input thru the cabin, like the microphone? I really think mine is defective based on what posters say in these forums about the quality of the sound during an HFL call. They say all the people they call tell the sound of the caller is good. Everyone tells me the sound is downright awful. I am trying to figure out what the source of the problem is - the overall system or the microphone.

Thanks.

Also, who decides the number of presets for the XM and radio pages? 2 pages of 6 presets is at least 2 pages too short!! My little MyFi has 3 pages of 12 presets on each page. Anyway thanks for listening.

Gator5000e

Does Bose have any involvment with the HFL sound input thru the cabin, like the microphone? I really think mine is defective based on what posters say in these forums about the quality of the sound during an HFL call. They say all the people they call tell the sound of the caller is good. Everyone tells me the sound is downright awful. I am trying to figure out what the source of the problem is - the overall system or the microphone. The dealer says there is nothing wrong with the system

Thanks.

Also, who decides the number of presets for the XM and radio pages? 2 pages of 6 presets is at least 2 pages too short!! My little MyFi has 3 pages of 12 presets on each page. Anyway thanks for listening.

sotiri

I have the same issue with the mic on handsfree and bluetooth.
absolutely horrible from everyone I am talking to. I usually can hear them ok, but they can barely hear me.

bearsfan

Honda

bearsfan

I'm sorry. What I meant to say is Honda decides the number of presets. I've asked.

lflorack

As a comparison, I've asked for comments about the quality of my On-Star phone calls from my RL. Those seem to get better comments -- although my cellphone/bluetooth connections are not really bad most of the time. BTW, I received similar comments about Blue-Tooth connection quality when I had my '04 TL as well.

Anyway, since the HFL and the on-star systems use the same microphone and speakers (at least I think they do), the difference is our cell phones, the blue-tooth connection and the HFL system up to the mike.

My point is that it may not be the HFL system.

Malibu Flyer

I would suggest you try an experiment to see if the problem is with the microphone/bluetooth or the reception. The next time you have a call where you have poor sound quality 'transfer' the call to you handset and see if the same problem exists. It would be ideal if you did this while you were parked so you would have the same connection to your cell phone network. I am sure you have already been careful about having windows or sunroof open which of course would create noise which would be picked up.

I have had to sound quality problem using a Verizon service and a V710 phone.

Since the same microphone is also used for the other voice controls in the car have you had problems using the voice activitated controls?

lflorack

You are reinforcing the same points I made. I have had SOME comments with my HFM calls but not as many it appears as the OP. Just to continue this thought, I have had no difficulties at all with teh V710 voice quality. It's been very good one it's own.

So, since the cell is solid and the microphone works fine with OnStar calls, I suspect (and agree with you that) the OP's issue is either the bluetooth connection or the HFL itself.

Gator5000e

I am familiar with the "transfer" option in the HFL where you tranwsfer the call from the car to the phone directly by saying transfer. This is so you can leave the car during a call.

Everytime I have transferred a call from the HFL to my phone directly while on a call, each and every time the person on the other end says something like, "there you are". I aks them you can hear me better now? They say it sounded like you were under water and now it sounds clear.

I have left myself a message on my office voice mail and I can tell you it sounds terrible. My dealership has shown no real interest in getting to the bottom of this.

On the other hand, my voice recognition commands are generally recognized although at times it does not understand me but nothing out of the norm,

But I have tried 3 separate phones and all sound as bad as the other. If anyone has any ideas I can take to my useless dealership, it would be appreciated. Generally, if my dealership does not see a problem on the car's computer they say there is no problem (eg - I get the active headlight warning at least 3-4 times a month. But because nothing shows on the car's computer, they says there is nothing wrong wtih the system.

I hate letting this feature go to waste, but as it stands now, it's not worth using.

Thanks for any thoughts.

RLtechie

You are naturally going to see better sound quality with OnStar calling than a Bluetooth phone simply because of wired connections versus Bluetooth. Secondly, the external antenna of the OnStar phone improves reception. Thirdly, the OnStar phone is 0.6 Watts digital and full 3W analog and therefore has a huge advantage in terms of reception over a handheld phone. Fourthly, it's ONE phone and is tested exhaustively, with software and hardware that rarely change, versus the many phones that need to be tested and the myriad factors present with the Bluetooth phone.

But, personally I use a Cingular RAZR with the RL system and it works really well no worse than the RAZR on its own, especially as compared to the quality and issues I experience in the BMW iDrive handsfree system.

Gator5000e

I am no expert, but the problem I am having is not with phone reception. It is either with the phones themselves (but I have the same problem with 3 different phones) or with the HFL.

I believe it is the HFL because when I use my Jabra Blue Tooth 250 headset all persons I call say I sound crisp and clear. So the BT connection between the phone and headset are working properly (both are revision l.l) and allowing for a clear call.

The sound deteriorates significantly when using the HFL. So it leads me to wonder if the problem could be a bad mike? How do I get Dealer to replace the mike to see if that would help.

Sorry for the rambling and thanks for any thoughts at all.

NorCalRL

I searched and found this thread today because I'm having the exact same problem with my Verizon Nokia 810.

It has finally gotten so annoying to have people ask me to repeat every sentence or to keep asking if we're disconnected that I disconnected my phone from the Bluetooth connection today.

When I took it to my dealer a few months ago they said that everything was fine, even though I tried two phones and had the identical result.

If anyone has a suggestion about helping the dealers understand and fix the problem, I would appreciate it. It would be ideal if a TSB has been issued so they have a step-by-step procedure to test and fix this problem.

lindros2

Having bounced between non-Bose and Bose (VW Passat > Audi S4 w/ Bose > 2004 Acura TL > 2005 Acura RL) I can tell you this:

1. The Bose system in my Audi was a huge step forward from the Passat, EVEN when the VW was outfitted with a high-end Alpine/MB quart aftermarket system.

2. However, the piece of crap paper-cone Bose woofers were a complete joke (and blew after listening to a medium-volume Foo Fighters CD). Thankfully I went through an Audi/VW parts distributor and didn't pay the $350+ for replacement speakers.

3. The TL was a step forward from the S4, but clearly lacked volume.

4. The RL is a *terrific* system (albeit a bit skewed towards the center channel), and really shines with DVD-A and XM channels 76 (Fine Tuning) and 113 (XM Pops).

5. I believe the Acura head unit is Panasonic (like the TL). Navigation software and logic supplied by Alpine.

Note that I have Bose 601 series 4, Bose VCS-10 center channel, QuietComfort 2 headphones, and a Wave Radio.

JMikeF

lindros:
Have you made any changes to the settings for sound (treble/bass/balance)? I agree that the center channel seems to be predominant .

jftjr

I turned my center channel volume down 2 notches.... I agree, it's a bit too much, but the soundstage opens up nicely once you turn it down some.

lindros2

On my TL I had bass and treble down a notch and the center channel up (smaller or less powerful speaker I imagine).

On the RL everything is at 0 (normal) but I tend to lower bass and treble depending on music (XM 80/81/82/84 has a bit too much bass for the speakers).

RLtechie

Are you sure it's Verizon Nokia 810? I don't think Nokia/Verizon have ever put out such a phone. Historically Nokia on Verizon did not have Bluetooth (but that is changing).

Including past models, all possible Verizon/Nokia models are:

Model-----Bluetooth?-----Supported by Handsfreelink?
-Past Product:
2285----------No-----------n/a
3285----------No-----------n/a
5185i---------No-----------n/a
6185----------No-----------n/a
3589i---------No------------n/a
6015i---------No------------n/a
6256i---------Yes-----------No
-Current Product:
2128i---------No-----------n/a
6236i---------No-----------n/a
6315i---------Yes-----------No


The closest other model resembling "810" on Verizon that I know of is the LG VX8100, but it's not Bluetooth. There is a Motorola V810 but it was never carried by Verizon.

Might want to doublecheck Handsfreelink site (www.handsfreelink.com) because it sounds as if you may have an incompatible phone so if that's the case, all bets are off ...

RLtechie

There are definitely several fairly easy steps you can take to further this issue:

0) Before any of the next three recommendations, be sure doublecheck your phone and software version are listed as compatible (www.handsfreelink.com). If not, you have no case.

1) If it's a possibility for you, go see a different dealership.

2) Ask to try/pair your same phones in a new RL demo car and compare. If different, get the service manager to listen. If you don't get results through these steps, then

3) Ask to talk to the zone service rep. No dealer wants a customer to pull in the zone rep, but sometimes it's required when the dealer (er ... "stealer") isn't listening.