static808

They have a V8 and a V10 engine....its only in their Formula 1 Honda race cars.

My take on V8, V10 is typical Honda...

Why build a Minivan....5 years after everybody else, they come out with the Odyssey.
Why build a SUV....5 years after everybody else, they come out with the MDX
Why build a smaller SUV....3 years after everybody else, they come out with the RDX.
Why build a SUV/Truck crossover....5 years after everybody else, they come out with the Ridgeline.

Why build a V8 or V10 when...RL sales tank, missing 7,S,LS competitor, NSX long in the tooth, people screaming for a bigger engine...Honda comes out with a ....?

Just for giggles, wouldn't it be really cool if Honda/Acura standardized on a V10 platform and skipped the V8. I'm sure they have the same technology as BMW to "turn off" 2 cylinders during normal driving and "turn on" the V10 when needed. That would solve all their performance issues and they could mass produce V10's in the NSX, RL, MDX, Ridgeline, TL Sport and the future coupe and large sedan (think 7series killer)...

Imagine a V10 RL with 450HP...WOW!

mrdeeno

That's the difference between a company being PROACTIVE vs. REACTIVE. They were proactive in the past...NSX, VTEC. Now they just react to the market. Since they are late to the game, they HAVE to make sure their offerings are near the top of the class in quality/features/appeal. I think they are only saving face by "saying" they waited intentionally to study the market instead of admitting they judged the market wrong. Honda used to be known as a leader in engine technology and innovation, but now it is a follower. It has been a really good follower as of late...but nonetheless it is still a follower and this hurts its image and will eventually hurt sales.


Again, this is them being REACTIVE:
Stimulus: RL sales suck and they have no larger sedan.
Reaction: No V8 is needed.
Result: RL sales continue to suck and they won't ever have a larger sedan.

Why not think PROACTIVELY?
Proaction: Make a v8
Result: Image from v8 may boost RL sales and they will have V8 capability to make a larger sedan.





*Disclaimer: these statements do not endorse Proactive skin care products.

msu79gt82

2nd Gen MDX will be out this Fall as an '07.

bluemule

...having a V8 in my RL...well, yaaaaawn...szzzzzzzzzz. But now, having a V8 in an upcoming Ridgeline...YES!!

Also, I'll simply state that the idea of a decommissioned RL seems rather absurd to me.

I'm driving an RL because I came to appreciate Honda quality and reliability with the 2 Accords I've owned since 1990. I chose the RL based solely upon that experience, and I was in the market for an upscale and sophiscated sedan when I purchased my RL.

As for RL sales figures...I'm presently enjoying the exclusivity of the brand and don't care what other's purchase.

I'm not qualified to comment on comparisons between the RL and other brands...I can say that I don't want my Acura to look out of date 5 years from now (any Detroit offering), and I don't want it to have all the appeal of a dishwasher (Toyota/Lexus).

In upcoming RL's I want to see the lastest technological advances added to what's already there...radar traffic/lane control; parking assist front and rear; factory installed backup camera; electric folding mirrors; a programmable NAV system from my computer; a more useful headlight system, HID if they must, but utilizing conventional lighting technology that eliminates not being able to see over that damned dangerous horizontal line on low beams. I want a highly sophisticated power plant and over 30 mpg. And, I want above all else...reliability...reliability...reliability.

Something has got to be done about repairing/servicing these cars. As a Honda customer/enthusiast, I wouldn't be bothered a bit if my Acura was purchased/serviced at my Honda dealer. Acura should consider shutting down most of the Acura dealerships and selling/servicing the Acura line through its Honda network. In selected metropolitan markets, say where the population and traffic justifies Nav Traffic, they should retain/upgrade to super exclusive and highly competent and sophisticated Acura dealerships...give the auto industry a standard worth lusting after. For the Acura, and from my perspective/experience out here in the boonies, I don't believe the standard business plan based upon the notion that its upscale division needs a separate and exclusive dealership network is working out.

Fred

mrdeeno

If you don't care what other's purchase, then you wouldn't care if RL sales suck or not. NEWSFLASH: if RL sales continue to suck, then the next RL could be severely decontented or there may NOT even be another RL! So contrary to what you said about not caring, if you want to see a better RL in the future you should care. No one wants to buy a discontinued car. Just ask us CL owners.


that's just a bad idea. They might as well just get rid of the acura brand and sell hondas, becuase these "acuras" sold under honda won't be successful...you have too much faith in the carbuying public's ability to ignore brand image.


That is a GREAT idea. Acura SHOULD open up several dealerships that they OWN, starting in metro dealerships. This would allow them control over the dealers and services of these dealerships...something they currently don't have. But the problem may be conflict of interest. Other daelers will say that they have unfair competition because these acura-owned dealers could get preferential treatment by corporate.

jhr3uva90

Are auto manufacturers in the US allowed to own dealerships? And if so, would that cause current dealerships to retaliate?

mrdeeno

I really don't know. But what I do know is that I have never bought or serviced a car at a dealership where the company "has control" over that dealership.

how many times have you heard the excuse from corporate: "The dealerships are independant and we have no control over their business practices".

i guess all they can do is offer "incentives" to dealerships that get good reviews or maybe more advertising money or something. I don't know, but what I do know is that it seems every automaker has dealerships that range from great to terrible, except lexus which seems to generally be great overall.

I guess it might be a conflict of interest thing or a dealership union thing or an unfair advantage thing. anyone in the industry want to chime in?

bluemule

I respectfully disagree somewhat with a couple of your conclusions...and reasonable minds often disagree, don't they?

I'm not interested in what other folks buy because if those folks buy something else, they have different values/criteria than I have when evaluating automobiles. Honda should pay attention to the competition, but should never stray from their core customer...folks like me who are dedicated Honda owners looking for an upscale automobile for the stable. I've outlined my preferences for development of the RL and stated specifically that along with the most sophiscated vehicle Honda can make, I want reliability...reliability...reliability. What I neglected to mention is that I also want quality...quality...quality in the RL.

I think your average Honda/RL purchaser is going to have a different outlook for a vehicle than say, your average Mercedes or BMW purchaser.

Regarding Honda dealerships selling Acuras...if the Acura brand had been on display/sale at my Honda dealership, I would long ago have already made the move into the Acura lineup.

Developing my idea a bit further that Honda dealerships should be offering the Acura lineup, Honda should upgrade their Honda network to premium status for all their dealerships...you should be getting the same type customer service on that Accord that a Lexus owner demands.

Honda has the hardware to do this...just look at the current issue of Consumer Reports and look at the recommended cars...and the red dots...reliability...reliability...reliability...q uality...quality...quality...

...it's not about V8 engines in their sedan line or boy-toy looks.

I admit that I'm in a minority regarding V8 engines...according to what I just read in Consumer Reports auto issue just received, most correspondents want this feature...I do not...I'd much prefer a reasonable cost of operation/gas mileage...the RL has plenty of get up and go for me with it's current power plant.

jhr3uva90

Most customers might WANT a V8, but how many are willing to PAY for a V8, especially Acura customers, who are notoriously frugal? I'm assuming that an RL with SH-AWD and a V8 would cost about the same as a similarly equipped Audi A6. Are people willing to pay that kind of money for the Acura brand name?

Also, is American Honda Corp. can upgrade dealerships (and I don't know how much influence they have over this), then they should upgrade the Acura dealerships first so that the dealerships can have consistent quality.

jhr3uva90

Mrdeeno,

I also owned a 2nd generation CL (2001 Acura CL Type S), so I know EXACTLY what you're saying about discontinued Acuras! The CL is in a different position from the RL. The CL was sold exclusively in North America; if we didn't buy them, nobody about them. The RL, on the other hand, is sold as the RL in North America, the identical Honda Legend is sold in Japan and (soon) Europe. That's part of the reason why Acura can be satisfied with selling 17,000 per year (the goal was actually 15,000). Yes, Acura needs to increase RL sales to about 1200 to 1500 a month, but I don't think the car is in danger of being cancelled just yet.

mrdeeno

Maybe not cancelled totally, but there is possibility of cancelling sales in the U.S.

Look at the Phaeton...it continues to live on, just not in the U.S.

jhr3uva90

Great point, mrdeeno! The Phaeton is an example of how NOT to build a luxury sedan and the limits of brand reach.

My guess is that Acura would simply send fewer units to underperforming dealerships. Remember, the RL is actually selling up to expectations in some parts of the country, so those areas will continue to get RL's. Let's just hope Acura doesn't treat the current RL like its predecessor and let it languish for nearly a decade.

mrdeeno

I think that if Acura had built a car as OVER-THE-TOP as the Phaeton, it would actually sell very well.

Acura already has the image "infrastructure" to sell premium branded cars as well as the Honda reliability/quality image. Acura HAS buyers that are willing to spend a lot of money on good OVER-THE-TOP cars. maybe not as "OVER-THE-TOP" as the Phaeton, but at least more OVER THE TOP than the RL (RL w/ v8 and every tech feature available on the market!). But since these products don't exist, these buyers go elsewhere.

VW had none of these things...all they had were thousands upon thousands of high school and college aged girls wanting to buy beetles, jettas, and golfs, and thousands upon thousands of soccer moms wanting to buy something other than an Accord or Camry. As for the Toureg, it's an SUV and SUVs defy all conventional consumer logic, so I don't even want to think about why they Toureg is successful.

This premium market segment is all about image. It's like the tortoise and the hare story. The moral of the story is NOT "slow and steady wins the race"! the moral is "when you're ahead, DON'T TAKE ANY NAPS!".

Acura has a good image and they are successful at maintaining it, but the problem is that they are not growing this image (taking "naps"). So as others improve their image, they will surpass Acura's as if Acura's image was standing still.

jhr3uva90

Wasn't the NSX supposed to be Acura's "over the top" car? Can Honda/Acura afford to go over the top?

mrdeeno

yeah, it was...until it sat in the dealership for many many years, got a small face-lift, then was discontinued.

honda can definitely afford to go over-the-top. It's just whether they choose to or not.

And when they do, they have to support it, not just say, "Oh, we made a great super exotic car that gets all rave reviews! now we can sit back for 10+ years and relax!" Same with the Legend when it existed. Even the Integra. That's what I mean by "tortoise & the hare"...they went over the top and were successful, but then took a long nap to wake up and realize that everyone else has caught up and are even passing them.

I swear man, that hare SHOULD'VE WON! instead a stupid tortoise won because the hare got cocky and complacent. When I tell that story to my kids, I'll make sure they know the REAL moral!

jhr3uva90

Perhaps Acura had to choose between updating its exotic race car and concentrating on other priorities? It seems that Acura's main focus for the past 7 years has been: 1) making sure they solidified their position among $30K - $40K near-luxury sedans, and 2) SUVs. The latter category is extremely important in the US market; SUVs are the real reason why Lexus is the most popular luxury brand in the US. Sports cars, unfortunately, are not so popular in this country compared to SUVs. In fact, I have a feeling that this much-rumored NSX replacement will be more of a coupe like the BMW 6 series than a Porche-type sports car.

invincible569

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vp911

I will be the first to admit I havn't kept up with this thread. Is there a reason for this post? Just slightly confused.

SodaLuvr

^^^

What's going on in here...

bluemule

Maybe you all should ask invincible.

Fred

swift22

rumor #1: they will be putting V8 in ridgeline.....turbocharging current RL
rumor #2: Will be coming out with an RL with fewer bell's and whistles this fall to lower cost
rumor # 3: ^^ both or one RL will come out this fall.

"i heard your gettin fired...........thats the rumor"-jeff foxworthy

PS_ last time i checked Lexus nor BMW made a pickup.

rickzamp

I really don't care what Honda/Acura does about the lack of RL Sales. They are a miserable company and I am not surprised by their imcompetence. I just wish I could get out of my RL lease.

Nocturnal

What's wrong with your RL that makes you want to get rid of it?

Nocturnal

I dunno but I doubt a turbo charged RL will come out. Honda has no experience building turbo engines even if rice boys have bolted them on civics for a loooong time Turbo engines are pretty tough to get clean and reliable so I'm not sure Honda will try that trick to boost the power. And I'm a big turbo fan with XR4Ti, Eclipse GSX and Audi S4 2.7TT in the past.

Does anyone here think that rumor has any substance besides wish full thinking? Does Honda have turbo experience that I forgot about?

Frankly I hope that a hybrid RL comes out soon. That could make a splash. Given their Accord Hybrid they have the technology and it might be a smaller leap to grow that to RL power levels vs. building a V8. Pure speculation on my part, of course.

jhr3uva90

I read that the RDX will have a turbo-charged engine. Maybe they could parley that experience into the RL?

rickzamp

You know all those fancy electronics Acura RL is famous for they work most of the time. And that is good enough for Acura. Neither Acura nor the dealer has any problem with sometimes it may work or not work. They said it only matters if it doesn't work at all.

Nocturnal

Well that is a lousy attitude for Acura to have for sure. The only intermittent issue I've found so far is that sometimes when I drive off the nav system needs a kick in the pants (switch zoom level) before it starts tracking. Obviously a software defect that could be addressed by a capable organization. I'll report it during my next (first) visit but don't expect it to get fixed anytime soon. The rest of the car has been reliable for me. Sorry you're not experiencing the same, it would drive me nuts too.