Mike_TX

Surprisingly, the Car Talk section of Club Lexus is expressing the same kind of sadness and horror over the '09 RL that you guys are here at Acurazine.

Sure, there's a a couple of snotty comments in the 9-page thread on it (yep, 9 pages so far!), but most of the posts are about how disappointed they are that Honda/Acura totally missed the boat with this one, and how it's not going to help a struggling model. But there are surprisingly few outright rude remarks, and as surprising, a lot of Acura admirers there.

Seldom has there been such a widespread consensus on internet forums and blogs about something like this, but this MMC has almost universally been met with shock and awe (to borrow from a recent military campaign), and not the good kind.

You have to ask yourself ... is Honda listening to what the enthusiast world is saying? Are they deeply depressed about they're hearing? Is it too late to do something about it? Or don't the Japanese do something honorable when they screw up, like running themselves through with their Samurai swords?

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neuronbob

Nah, it's not quite worth seppuku yet. It will be if they don't delay production a bit to address the design.

I guarantee....this new RL is DOA. I'd prefer it if Acura delays the release for a little to address the UNIVERSAL disdain for the exterior. As I've said befoe, I have rarely seen such universal disdain for a car about to be released. It really must be making the powers that be at Honda really worried.

Too bad Mr. Honda isn't with us any longer.

Mike_TX

Someone at CL pointed out the European Legend's grille, and I think it would make an excellent (and eminently available) replacement for the one they've stuck on the '09:




Honda - order a bunch of these guys, change out the "H" for an "A", and take that huge chrome abomination off the front of the '09 RL's before you ship any of them!

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TampaRLX-SH

I do not think this was a Honda decision as much as a concession to Acura. Keep in mind, Acura is an American brand (primarily). The RL MMC was (IMHO) a foolhearty attempt for Acura to assert design onto a model which was not an Acura design (part of the attempt to differentiate Acura from Honda). The current RL / Legend design cannot effectively support Acura's crass new design direction without the resulted party mask on the formerly flowing body.

What I am very curious about is the impact this Acura design debocle will have on the LEGEND model. I cannot imagine Honda tolerating the Acura schnoz on the global LEGEND. I am expecting the LEGEND to be more tasteful.

I think many savvy Lexus owners appreciate the RL, but not so much the Acura brand and ownership experience. Those who are all about brand cache will trash the RL but those who appreciate fine engineering likely appreciate the RL, if not Acura. As Mike has said before, put an L on the grille, and the RL would sell very well, maybe better than the GS.

Sad how this MMC has actually brough out more favor for our version RL, which has struggled for acceptance.

dwboston

Honda must be horrified at the thought of launching Acura outside of the US and Canada with that ugly grille. Maybe if Acura effs up the the RL, TSX, and TL it will be enough to schitt-can Colliver and his team of idiots and Honda will bring design back to Japan. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

Slightly off-topic, but I was looking through the winter issue of Acura Style and there is a profile of Colliver. Not surprisingly he comes across as a smug jerk. He also drives an RL.

TampaRLX-SH

I did not get a copy of Acura Style. I wrote to the editor and Acura corporate abut the lack of RL coverage. They apparently cancelled my subscription as I never got a copy afterwards.

Colliver was copied on my correspondance. He likely barked 'Cancel the bastard's subscription!'. I do not know him, but all I read, and see in his presentations is arrogance and a smug demeanor.

If Detroit can woo Toyota execs, I would hope Acura could court some Lexus leadership.

Honda HAS to be concerned with Acura's crossroad, there is too much concensus on the direction being taken....downhill.

larrynimmo

At least Lexus students are "concerned" about the RL. It sounds like they came to the same conclusion that we already did a week ago or so.

neuronbob

From reading that thread, it appears that Lexus owners sometimes cross-shop with the RL. I saw a lot of appreciation for the current RL over there, especially as compared to the new ( ) design.

geronimomoe

Read all 9 pages at the club lexus site....

Yep, they're surprised/shocked/disappointed. Some of those folks were Acura owners at one time....

Bottom line is we're all car enthusiasts and just disappointed with the design of a car from a brand that once had the stones to go where no Japanese company had gone before, to take on the German luxury brands and beat them at their own game...

Maybe they had a directive to do a "Chris Bangel" or a new "Audi front grill" move, ie. be daring, different, outlandish, etc... Time will tell with this new design. They expect sales to double.....

dwboston

I just started getting it. No idea why. After my email to Colliver last week, I'm sure my subscription will be stopped as well.

VOdoc

Right on Mike! Said the same thing in a couple of other threads. The JDM or European LEGEND grille resembles the current generation TL and actually looks a lot better than the pseudo-Benz grille on the current RL. It would avoid all kinds of retooling costs and do justice to the refined look of the car. (I'd actually be interested in putting that grille on mine.) DO IT!!!!

If Lexus fans are mourning the RL, hopefully Acura corporate has Colliver in their sights.

Ibn Rushd

You know, when i figured a car would be unanimously hated by nearly the entire automotive population on the internet, i didn't really think it'd be an Acura. I'll be honest, NEVER crossed my mind. And i mean, even the Subaru was pretty torn half way about it's new styling...but wow.

lumpulus

No great loss...Acura Style is a rag...with maybe 5% worth looking at.

I don't need to see RECIPES ...show me how the Acura ALMS team is doing.

SpicyMikey

Hate to be a contrarian but here's a alternative view;

I don't like the grill either but I can't help think we're all overreacting. In the end, I highly doubt it will hurt sales. In fact, the sales are so low now (and the car is so invisible to the public) that I wouldn't be surprised if it helped sales.

Whenever I make the assumption that MY view represents the average person, I usually get burned. Not just with cars, but almost everything. I've learned I'm not the average person in my tastes. Hey, I love my current RL. What does that tell you? So, the fact that I (we) don't like it means very little.

These boards may also generally think it's overstated. But once again, we don't drive the sales. We're car enthusiasts but this is not a car enthusiasts vehicle. It's meant for the masses. There is a real possibility that we are wrong on this one. 12 months from now we (and Acura) will know the answer. If it doesn't work then I'm sure they will change it.

geronimomoe

Agreed, except for the fact that it takes an enthusiast to recognize a good vehicle/design for a vehicle.

Like you said, given the sales are so low as is, it pretty much has no where to go but up. Compared to the Infiniti Q, this is still better looking and I imagine have more tech goodies.

Also, we may be giving the average person too much credit. The average person may like it

static808

The car itself is a class leader. excellent interior, new gadgets, NAV, XM Weather, etc...SH-AWD, 3.7L engine. You name it.

as mentioned over and over the exterior is terrible. It also looks to be a rush job, as in, Acura wanting to distance itself from Honda, they quickly determine to keep nothing similar in looks and feel. Get rid of this, get rid of that, lets put this new "Acura Advance Grille" on all our cars and oh, to keep costs in check, lets use the 2008 Accord's rear tail-light setup and give them the "racer look" but adding clear lenses.

SpicyMikey

I have to step carefully because I actually agree with the majority here. But playing devils advocate again, this "hack" job may be what the RL needed to get noticed. I have to agree with those who said the RL got lost in a crowd. I happened to like that look but its proven to have hurt the cars image. "Looks like a Honda" is all we always here.

Acura can't be blind to the things we see. However, if these tech upgrades, additional power, suspension improvements, and "bolder" looks, keep it from sinking into oblivion next to the new TL, well, that might be all Acura was shooting for. In other words, keep it alive for 2 more years until the FMC.

After all, this is about generating sales for Acura, not catering to car enthusiasts. In the end, if it makes the car get noticed then it may help, inspite of the fact that the grill is a bit overstated and some of the lines don't flow well.

mondo540

Spicy, you make sense....I have to see this car in person before I write it off...the updates seem decent. The exterior....jes dunno.

I am in the mkt for a new car in a bad way and hoped this refresh would seal it...it has just made it worse...I rotate thru G35xS, then to M35, then Audi A4 (new one coming in '09) then GS, to CTS and then come back full circle to Acura...(no BMW's thanks) I feel like Linda Blair in the Exorcist...my head is spinning.

SpicyMikey

Mondo, I know looks are subjective (another reason why it's hard to really debate this kind of stuff here). But if you like the CTS grill then you must like "overstated". To me, that grill is just as much a detractor from the cars looks as this new RL grill. Actually, I think it's worse. I'm not a fan of full vertical grills like that -- ala Audi. I mean really, look at this 2009 A8. Does that grill really enhance the looks of this cars front end?

http://www.automobilemag.com/future_..._a8/index.html

From a purely visually esthetic perspective, I say no way. But, it does make it distinct. The look has become a signature for Audi. When Audi first went to this look I think I remember a lot of screaming going on. Not anymore

dwboston

I get what you're saying but I completely disagree. The latest front grille of the Audis never looked bad to me - different sure, but not bad. They fit with the cars - there's no mish-mash of odd angles, it looks integrated. Same thing with the MDX grille - it was different and edgy, but not bad at all. The RL grille just provokes a visceral reaction. I absolutely hate it, and it's not getting better the more that I see it.

I agree that it probably won't hurt RL sales and that our opinions aren't representative - obviously, since we're among the few that bought a low selling car.

mondo540

Don't know how bold I am re: front ends...that's yet to be determined....I am looking at all cars that have certain features I want, then will drive them, and start crossing them off if I really don't like the styling, ergos, handling, technology or whatever....assume that's how most people go about it but maybe not...I am early in that cycle so nothing gets crossed off just yet based on pics or quick visuals from seeing one on the road (i.e.CTS)...so far, I've only driven the G35...

darth62

I know I'm in the minority here, but I really don't the front end is all that bad. I don't like it - but it isn't a deal breaker for me. And, frankly, even with that front-end I still like the RL more than anything in it's class.

robarsan

For me, the current front end has the look of a shark. I look at the 09' and it looks like a Blow fish. I could never get past that

gavine

I'd buy a JDM Legend grille with the Acura logo in a heartbeat. I've been wanting that for a while. It was discussed a long time ago but never came-about.

lindros2

Here's the simple question: "Would you buy a 2009 RL?"

neuronbob

I'd definitely go for a JDM-style grille with the "A" in it.

VOdoc

+1 more!

SpicyMikey

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I say yes. If my RL got totalled in a few months and I needed to buy a new 4 door sedan, I would definitely consider the 09 RL. Knowing what I know aboutt he alternatives, and all things remaining equal, I'm almost certain I'd end up buying the RL (even with the grill).

The only caveat; I say all this without having seen it in person yet or knowing the prices. That could change things

jwaters943

FWIW, I am seriously considering purchasing/leasing a 2009 RL. I love all the changes Acura made except the grille and reduced Hwy. fuel-economy. Since I spend most of the inside the car, the interior is really what matters to me.

Maybe I'm just goofy. I also opted for a refreshed Pilot with the large matte silver grille over the 1st, more understated iteration.

neuronbob

Well, there's one sale. Don't worry, we'll welcome you when you post about your purchase. The interior is still class-leading and has all the goodies we asked for.

darth62

Simple response: Most likely.

I had really wanted an M35. But, I've decided to go with an RL for a reason that many of you will find a bit silly: I am an avid cyclist. I need a car that has tow hitches available so that I can add a bike carrier. There are hitches that fit the RL (as reported elsewhere in this forum). Unless you get some kind of custom job, there isn't anything available for the M35.

And, yeah, I have considered SUVs but live in a densly populated part of LA and can't live with the size of a Murano or MDX. Now, if the RDX had a V6, the EX35 was bigger, or the X3 had some decent cabin electronics, things might be different.

Plus, when you get right down it, I most comfortable with Honda/Acura products. I love the Acura NAV, find the seats in most Acuras to be great, and have faith in the reliability.

Ibn Rushd

Actually, this seems to be a common answer, that they'd most likely get another one....so despite the grill (similar to Bangle BMW?) people still like the features and go with it....

So, even with ugly grill, i see the RL selling on par with the current RL.

pimpin-tl

And the overly biased 1SickLex over on clublexus. He is banned from almost every other car forums because he praises Lexus to no end. Because of him, CL is a terrible forum.

Anything he says about the RL take it like a child said it.

Ibn Rushd

Haha, i've had a run in with that guy, i think he got banned in the middle of our argument on the forums because he really had no come back to me, but kept insulting me, a couple of other members and so forth...good times.

GoHawks

He and I went at it a while back as well.

VOdoc

Dude! Take it from another avid L.A.-area cyclist. The Curt hitch receiver fits just fine on the '06 RL and the current version is a MUCH better looking car than the '09!

(Try the XPORT 2-bike carrier--unlike the big Thule, it does not damage the paint on the frame.)

darth62

Thanks for the info, VOdoc. Much appreciated!

VTEC Racer

I don't think there is a single major auto-enthusiast forum that DOESN'T know who 1SICKLEX is. He has been banned from Acurazine on more than one occasion. One of the times he came back using the name AcuraGT-3. I figured out it was him though and when I called him out on it, didn't see a single post from him after that. God knows what name he's under now.

I have never seen anyone speak so negatively about the RL as 1SICKLEX does. The funny thing is that his first-hand experience with the RL doesn't exceed the brochure that he ordered from www.acura.com, let alone actually sitting in one. 1SICKLEX displays the type of personality that you would expect from a bully small-town cop (except he is a SUPER MODERATOR); only became a cop to have "power" over all those kids that made fun of him during his childhood. They must have all drove Acura's and Honda's.

Pimpin-TL, I 100% agree. Not only does he tarnish ClubLexus, but he just gives Lexus in general a bad name. I guarantee there are people on the forums who dislike Lexus just because of this guy.

jwaters943

1SICKLEX =

I've had so many run ins with him on so many different forums, I've lost count. Even some people on www.clublexus.com don't like him. It's pretty bad when you're known as a Lexus fanboy on a Lexus site.

Click only if you want to see Acura bashing and a bunch of stupid commentary by 1SICKLEX:
http://forums.motivemag.com/zerothread?id=3671435
http://forums.motivemag.com/zerothread?id=3683673

Ibn Rushd

Wow, they really dropped the hammer on Acura for the second one. Putting it closer to Volvo and Saab....haha.

But that kind of proves it, that even people on other forums, don't think Acura is a true competitor yet, not until they get a flagship that is competing with other flagships and more broad lineup.

*shrug*