06RL/NBP

When the Acura dealership changes the fluid in the transmission do they flush out all of the fluid with a machine and then simply refill instead of the 3X3 method?

oo7spy

I would certainly hope none of them ever use a machine. Please never allow anyone for forcibly remove fluid from a Honda transmission. It should always be drained by removing the plug and letting gravity do the work.

The 3x3 method is not standard from what I understand and requires a special request which will be met with a special bill. The method is tedious when done correctly and requires quite a bit of time. A typical change at the dealer is a simple drain and fill.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

gravity drain and refill.

06RL/NBP

So how does the drain and fill once hurt the trans by leaving old fluid in the trans. If you have a bucket of manure no matter how much ice cream you add to the manure you still have manure.

rlerman

Replace the fluid every 15k via drain and fill and you are fine. That's enough rotation to keep the fluid fresh. It's simple to change and cost less than $30 in fluid. 3 quarts or so is all you need. I only put 9k miles on per year so I'm going almost two years between changes.

06RL/NBP

Thanks

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

If you clean the manure out on a regular basis before it cools off you will get more out.

If you wait until its hard as a rock you failed at manure management.

oo7spy

rlerman has the most sensible technique. Doing a 3x3 ever 45k, or doing a drain and fill every 15k will lead to essentially the same result. In fact, one every 15k will lead to a lower average age of the fluid since 3 qts will only be 15k old every time.

I have done the math here before to show the purpose behind the 3x3. It is not a gimmick, and should be used to get the most questionable fluid out if you are having rough shifts. However, the 3x3 is not the only or best technique.

JetTL

Hi guys,
I'm new to the RL, as I just purchased a 2005 with 64k on the clock. As my name implies, I once owned a 2004 TL, which I purchased new and sold in 2006. This car (the TL) had a perceived 2nd gear weakness, which some TL owners tried to remedy by putting in synthetic transmission fluid. I was one that did this, specifically with Amsoil, and I was very pleased with the results. Now I will certainly admit that I don't know nearly as much about the RL as I once did about the TL, but I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience putting non-Z1 (is that still the going type?) in the slush box? I don't necessarily have a problem with Z1, but I did like the ancillary effect the Amsoil had on shift quality in my TL, and I do think they make a fine product.

Thanks in advance for your experiences with the RL.

oo7spy

Z1 is no longer manufactured and has been replaced by DW1.

Matt W went to Amsoil ATF. Send him a PM to see how that is holding up.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

I use amsoil in everything but my acura, only because these cars are so damn sensitive.

FrankZx

I will be changing the fluid this week - keeping with Acura fluids for both transmission and diff.

Here are the latest Acura Fluid part number that I'd gotten from the dealer:

08200-9008 ATF-DW1
08200-9007A AWD Fluid


For the transfer case - I am planning to use Lucas Synthetic 75W-90 Gear Oil.

And yes - going with the 3x3 transmission fluid change approach...

JetTL

Putting Amsoil ATF in this weekend using 3x3 protocol. I liked it in my '04 Tl, so I'm optimistic that I will appreciate it in my new-to-me '05 RL 5-speed.

FrankZx

3x3 done. It really does make the shift more smooth and less noticeable!

TonyCD

One problem with flushing is that many people (in all makes of cars) have destroyed perfectly good transmissions because if the flushing machine isn't perfectly cleaned after being used on the last guy's car, it can introduce his metal shavings into your transmission.

The gravity-drain technique leaves in a certain percentage of the old fluid, yes. I forget how much, but it's been stated before (something like 15-20%, maybe?). So one drain-and-fill gives you maybe 80% or 85% new fluid. The second one gets rid of all but 15 or 20% of the REMAINING original fluid, and the third one gets rid of all but 15 or 20% of the original fluid STILL left over after that. Result: after the third drain-and-full, you've changed well over 90% of the original fluid out. That's why it doesn't matter much whether you space the three drain-and-fills all at once or staggered over a year -- the long-term result is the same.

TonyCD

For those seeking an alternative to the Honda fluid that's cheaper and easier to find than Amsoil, I used Valvoline MaxLife Dexron/Mercon ATF, with excellent results. For details, scan down to my post in this thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-2005-2012-76/new-atf-rear-diff-fluids-795607/

oo7spy

3/8ths removed; 5/8ths remain.

TonyCD

If I'm reading you right, and each drain-and-fill removes 3/8 of the old fluid, then 3 drain-and-fills would change 75% of the fluid.

06RL/NBP

I wonder why the Acura dealership service department seems to know nothing about the 3X3 method. They simply told me 3 quarts out and 3 quarts in.

oo7spy

Roughly, . Going much further begins to waste too much new fluid.
I don't.

06RL/NBP

Why doesn't the Acura dealership service department know anything about the 3X3 method. They simply told me 3 quarts out and 3 quarts in.

JetTL

I can't answer that, but while doing my 3x3 yesterday, I called my local dealer to ask if they had a transmission filter in stock for my '05 RL. The guy in the parts department didn't even know there was a transmission filter on the RL. I had the parts diagram pulled up from an on-line Acura dealer so I gave him the part number. He said something the the effect of, and I'm paraphrasing here, wow, I didn't know there was a filter. I don't think we've ever replaced one of these in our shop.

See part #3 in the hyperlink below.

This is why I prefer to perform my own work on my car.


http://acura.bernardiparts.com/departments/parts.aspx

colouny

Well, i had previous experience on switching the trans fluid on my RL, filled twice with non DW1 fluid, altho they said its compatible with my car. Anyway the story begins after first 3 liter change got its 15k km, the shifting smoothness degraded dramatically over that time. I figured its time to change the fluid again, and indeed it helped for another 2-3k km, after that it seemed that its even worse than it was before.
To keep the story shorter i got 12 liters of Honda DW1, and flushed the transmission doing 20 km trip after every 3 liters drain and refill. That was total of 12 liter fresh fluid.
The result was amazing. And after 15k km again with honda fluid it feel like i kneed change again, its not smooth.
What i am suspecting is that i did a mistake filling with non Honda genuine fluid, and something in there got wrong, or plugged and something similar. Anyway i am going to replace the fluid in few weeks wee will see how it goes when replaced.
So i have learned my lesson....

TonyCD

You may have learned the wrong lesson. Check out the link I provided above. It was based on extensive discussions of Honda and non-Honda ATF fluids at BobIsTheOilGuy.com. To make it short for you:

When Honda reformulated its ATF, it appears to have done so for environmental or other reasons, not for best shift quality. Honda's new fluid doesn't work as well as Honda's old fluid, to the point where Honda dealers were solving rough-shifting problems by putting some of the old fluid (now no longer available) in place of the new. Chances are there are better options than Honda's fluid.

FrankZx

My plan is to change the transmission every 15K (1 time drain/fill). This will keep introducing the "new" fluid.

I'm not planning to experiment on fluids - sticking with what Acura recommends - ATF-DW1. Besides when ordering online - it is pretty reasonably priced - avoid the local dealers on fluids, their markup is pretty high...

FrankZx

My dealer does - they also say they have a machine now that is "safe" for flushing the transmission. But the tried and true 3x3 method costs 3X more if you ask for it...

TonyCD

I have one too. It's called a "telephone," and I use it to call the next closest service facility that will change my fluid properly.

TonyCD

As background information, I paid around $200 in parts and labor to do the 3x3 method with the full-synthetic non-Honda ATF of my choice. That includes buying the fluid myself at an auto parts store and paying an independent garage $150 for labor to do the three drain-and-fills.

oo7spy

That's because it isn't a serviceable part. Just like the fuel filter, it is supposed to last a very long time, longer than the car in most cases.

GASKICKER

Why arent we pulling a hose going to the cooler and running the car in nuetral to pump the fluid out, then adding fluid at the same time up top? Ive used this method on 2 other vehicles with great success. Seems like it would work here too.

oo7spy

Was that on a Honda? Generally speaking, Hondas have very touchy transmissions. The reason you hear us insist to not let anything more than gravity extract Honda trans fluid is because we have heard of too many going to crap after a Jiffy Lube used their transmission machine to change the fluid in one go. The service manual calls for gravity drains, so we just play it safe.

If you have the intestinal fortitude to try it out for us, by all means, share your experience. In the mean time, $30-40 in wasted transmission fluid is worth the peace of mind.

GASKICKER

Actually no, having owned 3 hondas over the yrs, i didnt own them very long so never did a trans drain and refill. My trans experience has been with US auto makers. The idea is still solid as the trans is doing the "flushing" with its pump not an external machine. It is not gravity though. This method does waste oil, just not as much and would get the majority of the fluid the first time. As i was reading all of the 3x3 threads, i figured there must be a good reason that no one is using the pump, cooler line method....thanks for clarifying. If the filter isnt changed on 2 & 3 of the 3x3, why not syphon it from the top?
Just trying to learn as much as i can about this new ride of mine.

oo7spy

What I have been told is that there are deposits that collect in small spaces within the different clutch chambers. When these deposits are surrounded with fluid, they don't dislodge because of buoyancy. However, when the fluid around them is drained, they are exposed to gravity and can become dislodged. For whatever reason, it's these deposits moving that cause an issue.

Now, how much truth is there to this explanation? I just know that some Honda transmissions kick the bucket shortly after a machine is used. It seems the fluid pump is close enough to the action a machine uses, but again, . It's all speculation and a lot of paranoia.

TonyCD

My understanding has been that a transmission flush is a bad idea on any car. It's not just because it dislodges particles inside your transmission. It's also because, if the shop uses anything less than immaculate hygiene in cleaning the innards of the flushing machine between uses, the flushing itself introduces metal shavings into your transmission from the LAST guy's car.

Bottom line: No matter what make or model of car you drive, never ever agree to a transmission flush. Always do gravity drains only.

GASKICKER

I certainly agree and have NEVER had a shop do a flush; what about just letting the transmission pump do the moving?