Tampa Auto Show, the RL and Some Buzz.
11-09-2007, 08:50 PM
#1
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
Thread Starter
Tampa Auto Show, the RL and Some Buzz.
I went to the Tampa Bay Auto Show last night. The good news is the only car for me currently is the RL.
I am shocked at some of assembly that manufacturer's are displaying out there. Door that wobble when opened, doors that sound like empty tin cans when shut, plastic door panels with gaps large enough to get my fingers in between past two knuckles, plastics made by rubbermaid and styling so busy and disjointed some cars look designed by a committee.
The Mercedes BlueTech was on display. When I asked about how the urea packs were replaced, the rep shrugged (I was surprised - MB reps get a lot of training). I asked if it had been approved in NY, NH, CA? He said yes, but ONLY when sold NEW. USED MB Bluetechs cannot be resold in those states (to avoid expired urea packs being used in these emission tough states). I looked at the new C class, and although I think it is nicer than the C class is replaces, I was not overwhelmed. It is proportionally balanced and appears as fair sized, but everything is small, especially the seats, so though proportional, it is more an illusion than a good fit. I did like the M Class SUV, but the ergonmics did not work for me.
Infinity styling does not work for me, and the Ms were LOCKED! I moved on.
Lexus had NO GS on display, but the IS-F was there, and nice eye candy, but the IS is also too small for me. The LS is very nice, but at 80K i did not see it being twice as much car as the RL. The ES styling also does not work for me.
The new Audi A5 coupe was there. It had the most interesting, fluid and elegant styling of anything I saw. The interior was black - which I do not like, and the plastics did not work well, but I believe it was just and early build. The exterior sheetmetal was gorgeous.
BMW was highlighting the M3, M5 and and M6. Very nice, but I am not wowed for the $$$. I did like the X5 very much, except for that futon looking back seat.
The car that impressed me as being very RL - like in style, build quality and safety / feature content was another born to sleep model...the Volvo s80. I do not know if they exibit the reliability I expect from the RL, but I found the s80 pleasant, without having driven it. It's presence in person, feel and materials felt very much like the RL, even if the styling was very scandinavian simple.
I stopped by Honda and was more impressed with the new Accords in person. The coupe catches my eye, but the rump does not work for me...it us HUGE and goes on for ever. Why? Just to make it reach XXX inches in length? The sedan interior is very nice...almost Acura - like. The exterior has, in my opinion too many styling cues going on. Some odd proportions, angles and long overhangs. The one on display was the same color as my RL an it truely exemplified how simple, proportioned, flowing and elegant the RL styling is. It may have proportions siilar to the RL, but make no mistake, it is no an RL underneath. It does have me intriques as to what the next TL will be.
Now Acura: They had all models, mostly all black. And the display area was black carpet. What IDIOT designed the display??? The cars were INVISIBLE. There was one white TL and one white RDX. But they had a black TSX, black TL and black RL (black in and out) clustered together on the black carpet. I heard 3 people say 'why is there such a huge range in price on THIS car?' They were indistinguishable. No videos, no concepts, no focus, no thought. It was the WORSE auto display at the auto show (Including Isuzu, which has, well...no Isuzus). Acura's marketing has truly entered the Black Hole.
Now my local Acura rep was there (who sold my TL and RL to me). Intelligent man, tempered enthusiasm and insightful to Honda / Acura conservatism. I did take the info he shared with me as rumor....but he did support some of the speculation I read here. He did state Feb 08 is the end of production of the 08 MY RL. Late spring will be a MMY RL, sheetmetal, styling changes, a lengthened platform and and engine upgrade or option. I do not know if that would be in addition to the current 3.5. When I asked if a new engine or option would be a tuned 3.7 from the MDX or the long rumored V8, he just smiled. Fair enough, he may not know anything as fact himself.
Time will tell.
I am shocked at some of assembly that manufacturer's are displaying out there. Door that wobble when opened, doors that sound like empty tin cans when shut, plastic door panels with gaps large enough to get my fingers in between past two knuckles, plastics made by rubbermaid and styling so busy and disjointed some cars look designed by a committee.
The Mercedes BlueTech was on display. When I asked about how the urea packs were replaced, the rep shrugged (I was surprised - MB reps get a lot of training). I asked if it had been approved in NY, NH, CA? He said yes, but ONLY when sold NEW. USED MB Bluetechs cannot be resold in those states (to avoid expired urea packs being used in these emission tough states). I looked at the new C class, and although I think it is nicer than the C class is replaces, I was not overwhelmed. It is proportionally balanced and appears as fair sized, but everything is small, especially the seats, so though proportional, it is more an illusion than a good fit. I did like the M Class SUV, but the ergonmics did not work for me.
Infinity styling does not work for me, and the Ms were LOCKED! I moved on.
Lexus had NO GS on display, but the IS-F was there, and nice eye candy, but the IS is also too small for me. The LS is very nice, but at 80K i did not see it being twice as much car as the RL. The ES styling also does not work for me.
The new Audi A5 coupe was there. It had the most interesting, fluid and elegant styling of anything I saw. The interior was black - which I do not like, and the plastics did not work well, but I believe it was just and early build. The exterior sheetmetal was gorgeous.
BMW was highlighting the M3, M5 and and M6. Very nice, but I am not wowed for the $$$. I did like the X5 very much, except for that futon looking back seat.
The car that impressed me as being very RL - like in style, build quality and safety / feature content was another born to sleep model...the Volvo s80. I do not know if they exibit the reliability I expect from the RL, but I found the s80 pleasant, without having driven it. It's presence in person, feel and materials felt very much like the RL, even if the styling was very scandinavian simple.
I stopped by Honda and was more impressed with the new Accords in person. The coupe catches my eye, but the rump does not work for me...it us HUGE and goes on for ever. Why? Just to make it reach XXX inches in length? The sedan interior is very nice...almost Acura - like. The exterior has, in my opinion too many styling cues going on. Some odd proportions, angles and long overhangs. The one on display was the same color as my RL an it truely exemplified how simple, proportioned, flowing and elegant the RL styling is. It may have proportions siilar to the RL, but make no mistake, it is no an RL underneath. It does have me intriques as to what the next TL will be.
Now Acura: They had all models, mostly all black. And the display area was black carpet. What IDIOT designed the display??? The cars were INVISIBLE. There was one white TL and one white RDX. But they had a black TSX, black TL and black RL (black in and out) clustered together on the black carpet. I heard 3 people say 'why is there such a huge range in price on THIS car?' They were indistinguishable. No videos, no concepts, no focus, no thought. It was the WORSE auto display at the auto show (Including Isuzu, which has, well...no Isuzus). Acura's marketing has truly entered the Black Hole.
Now my local Acura rep was there (who sold my TL and RL to me). Intelligent man, tempered enthusiasm and insightful to Honda / Acura conservatism. I did take the info he shared with me as rumor....but he did support some of the speculation I read here. He did state Feb 08 is the end of production of the 08 MY RL. Late spring will be a MMY RL, sheetmetal, styling changes, a lengthened platform and and engine upgrade or option. I do not know if that would be in addition to the current 3.5. When I asked if a new engine or option would be a tuned 3.7 from the MDX or the long rumored V8, he just smiled. Fair enough, he may not know anything as fact himself.
Time will tell.
11-09-2007, 09:28 PM
#2
AcurAdmirer
Thanks for the show impressions, Tampa. Styling is such a subjective thing, I guess. That's why everyone isn't driving an RL.
Interesting, too, about the hints your dealer dropped. I'm beginning to think some significant changes are indeed in the works for the '09 model, And with a shutdown and retooling in February (
), I have to wonder if we aren't looking at a springtime rollout.
If I were a gambling man, I'd bet the MMC will put the 3.7-liter V-6 from the MDX in the RL. That sets up the full restyle in 2010 for a 3.7-liter base engine and a V-8 option.
As you say, time will tell.
.
.
Interesting, too, about the hints your dealer dropped. I'm beginning to think some significant changes are indeed in the works for the '09 model, And with a shutdown and retooling in February (
), I have to wonder if we aren't looking at a springtime rollout.If I were a gambling man, I'd bet the MMC will put the 3.7-liter V-6 from the MDX in the RL. That sets up the full restyle in 2010 for a 3.7-liter base engine and a V-8 option.
As you say, time will tell.
.
.
11-10-2007, 03:43 AM
#4
Senior Moderator
Thanks for the comments, Tampa. Sounds like next year will be a big one for the RL. I also bet on the J37 going into the RL rather than a V8. That's such an obvious mod.
So who's going to be the first to do a J35-J37 engine swap in their current RL? 
So who's going to be the first to do a J35-J37 engine swap in their current RL?
11-10-2007, 10:49 AM
#6
AcurAdmirer
Well, I'm sitting at my dealer now (another free carwash 
), and I just asked my sales manager if he knew anything about the rumored changes. He honestly did not. Said he would be getting his allocation next week, and hadn't heard anything from Acura sources about changes to the RL in '09.
He seemed very interested, though, since - as he put it - he needs SOME kind of change to get inventory moving. He seemed skeptical about them putting the 3.7 in the RL, since it would be it's last year before its restyle, but he DID confirm strong rumors of a V-8 in the 2010 model. He said it is essentially the new NSX engine with a few cylinders lopped off.
As for the closing of the plant in Februry '08, he said that "Acura is bad about just shutting down if sales aren't good enough, and then we have to beg for more inventory when the lot gets empty." So the implication was that they may just be closing it early because RL's aren't moving fast enough.
But - as we know, only Acura really knows what's going on.
.
.
), and I just asked my sales manager if he knew anything about the rumored changes. He honestly did not. Said he would be getting his allocation next week, and hadn't heard anything from Acura sources about changes to the RL in '09.He seemed very interested, though, since - as he put it - he needs SOME kind of change to get inventory moving. He seemed skeptical about them putting the 3.7 in the RL, since it would be it's last year before its restyle, but he DID confirm strong rumors of a V-8 in the 2010 model. He said it is essentially the new NSX engine with a few cylinders lopped off.
As for the closing of the plant in Februry '08, he said that "Acura is bad about just shutting down if sales aren't good enough, and then we have to beg for more inventory when the lot gets empty." So the implication was that they may just be closing it early because RL's aren't moving fast enough.
But - as we know, only Acura really knows what's going on.
.
.
11-10-2007, 10:55 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
Thanks for the report...a couple of comments:
Volvo reliability: If the new ones are anything like my old one, Acura has nothing to worry about. Not only was in nowhere near as reliable as my RL or MDX, I had more than one "discussion" with more than one dealer as they would try to argue that something wasn't covered under warranty (i.e. they told me a broken cup holder was "trim" and trim wasan't covered...a new one was $135).
New Accord: There's one in my parking lot at work - 2 door. Gorgeous. From the rear quater view, it looks very "Aston Martin-ish." Good thing them came out after I bought the RL.
LL
Volvo reliability: If the new ones are anything like my old one, Acura has nothing to worry about. Not only was in nowhere near as reliable as my RL or MDX, I had more than one "discussion" with more than one dealer as they would try to argue that something wasn't covered under warranty (i.e. they told me a broken cup holder was "trim" and trim wasan't covered...a new one was $135).
New Accord: There's one in my parking lot at work - 2 door. Gorgeous. From the rear quater view, it looks very "Aston Martin-ish." Good thing them came out after I bought the RL.
LL
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11-10-2007, 01:15 PM
#8
AcurAdmirer
I agree the interior of the new Accord looks pretty good, but it shows its economy roots when you start to look closely. The little surround around the shifter (which is sunken down in the console as opposed to being a nice "bridge" console) is just plain cheap-looking. Ditto for other aspects of trim and general construction.
The body is the worst part, though, IMO. It really looks like a committee job, where major parts just don't look to me like they go together. By "major parts" I mean the rear end v. the front end v. the middle. Not horrific or anything, but far, far from the totally integrated look of our RL's.
I respect the performance of the new V-6 Accord, but I just can't totally like the styling, and the RL look-alike interior styling doesn't quite hit the mark for me.
.
.
The body is the worst part, though, IMO. It really looks like a committee job, where major parts just don't look to me like they go together. By "major parts" I mean the rear end v. the front end v. the middle. Not horrific or anything, but far, far from the totally integrated look of our RL's.
I respect the performance of the new V-6 Accord, but I just can't totally like the styling, and the RL look-alike interior styling doesn't quite hit the mark for me.
.
.
11-12-2007, 01:34 PM
#9
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The BMW 3 hardtop convertible is selling for all the money out here. Too expensive I think. The MB diesels CAN be sold in California if they have at least 7,500 miles and there are 100 E Class leases available for California.
The SF show had Honda and Acura in the same room last year so you had Civics, RLs, and... lawn mowers (?) in the same room. How was it at your show?
I'm at the auto show in 2 weeks will be cool to see that IS-F from Lexus. 80 Grand and you can't even use Navi while driving..?
The SF show had Honda and Acura in the same room last year so you had Civics, RLs, and... lawn mowers (?) in the same room. How was it at your show?
I'm at the auto show in 2 weeks will be cool to see that IS-F from Lexus. 80 Grand and you can't even use Navi while driving..?
11-12-2007, 02:04 PM
#10
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by CL6
The BMW 3 hardtop convertible is selling for all the money out here. Too expensive I think. The MB diesels CAN be sold in California if they have at least 7,500 miles and there are 100 E Class leases available for California.
The SF show had Honda and Acura in the same room last year so you had Civics, RLs, and... lawn mowers (?) in the same room. How was it at your show?
I'm at the auto show in 2 weeks will be cool to see that IS-F from Lexus. 80 Grand and you can't even use Navi while driving..?
The SF show had Honda and Acura in the same room last year so you had Civics, RLs, and... lawn mowers (?) in the same room. How was it at your show?
I'm at the auto show in 2 weeks will be cool to see that IS-F from Lexus. 80 Grand and you can't even use Navi while driving..?
The layout was the same: first floor Jaguar / Mitsu / Volvo / Mazda / Acura / Infinity & BMW. Lexus has a seperate side room (with no GS).
Upstairs are mostly mainstream brands, with Mercedes & Audi the exception. Mercedes did have a large display, however so they needed the real estate. Honda had a crowded spot with many models including a S2000.
I saw AUTOLINE: Detroit this weekend and the Bluetech was discussed as only 2 year leases allowed in California and the cannot be resold in California? Is this true? perhaps you can clarify for us.
And I will continue to beat on Acura for it's awful display (black cars on black carpet - it looked like a display for silver wheels). There was no highlight of SHAWD with 3 models utilizing it, and 2 models expecting it in the soon released models (TSX & TL). I doubt most people read the fine print on window stickers (past the price) to know these cars are SHAWD.
11-12-2007, 02:08 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
I agree the interior of the new Accord looks pretty good, but it shows its economy roots when you start to look closely. The little surround around the shifter (which is sunken down in the console as opposed to being a nice "bridge" console) is just plain cheap-looking. Ditto for other aspects of trim and general construction.
The body is the worst part, though, IMO. It really looks like a committee job, where major parts just don't look to me like they go together. By "major parts" I mean the rear end v. the front end v. the middle. Not horrific or anything, but far, far from the totally integrated look of our RL's.
I respect the performance of the new V-6 Accord, but I just can't totally like the styling, and the RL look-alike interior styling doesn't quite hit the mark for me.
.
.
The body is the worst part, though, IMO. It really looks like a committee job, where major parts just don't look to me like they go together. By "major parts" I mean the rear end v. the front end v. the middle. Not horrific or anything, but far, far from the totally integrated look of our RL's.
I respect the performance of the new V-6 Accord, but I just can't totally like the styling, and the RL look-alike interior styling doesn't quite hit the mark for me.
.
.
....but that's the way Hondas are. When a new model comes out, it looks too conservative/strange/overdone/boring, and then when the next one comes out, the now outgoing model manages to look good.
It's getting hard to sort through the RL rumors. If they do a facelift/stretch and keep "2 body panels", then I'm guessing those panels would be the front doors. So they could stretch and restyle a bit and bump up the HP and keep the same basic drivetrain. Sounds like the changes that transitioned the 2G Legend to the 1G RL. Same platform, but restyled and refined without lunging into Lexus territory.
Rob144
11-12-2007, 03:00 PM
#12
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You can lease an E Class diesel in CA for 2 years. There are only 100 available however. You can buy any diesel in CA if it has at least 7,500 miles on it. All MB diesels will be sold in CA when the 09s show. I'm sure the other brands are the same way, too.
Did the S2000 CR look cool?
I think in SF there were a few different colors last year including red. No prototypes in SF, either. I think they save that for Detroit and LA.
Did the S2000 CR look cool?
I think in SF there were a few different colors last year including red. No prototypes in SF, either. I think they save that for Detroit and LA.
11-12-2007, 03:58 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
[QUOTE=CL6]You can lease an E Class diesel in CA for 2 years. There are only 100 available however. You can buy any diesel in CA if it has at least 7,500 miles on it. All MB diesels will be sold in CA when the 09s show. I'm sure the other brands are the same way, too.
Did the S2000 CR look cool? [QUOTE]
That kinda confuses me (not a difficult challenge)...
You need 7,500 miles to BUY a Bluetech? I thought the report on AUTOLINE: Detroit stated you can only lease them NEW in CA fro 2 years, then they have to be resold out of state - so no risk of expired urea packs being driven about in the state. If you can buy Bleutechs used, how will they enforce owners keeping the urea packs replaced / current. That was the stipulation over several states approving Bluetechs for sale?
The S2000 has always been attractive to me. Clean, simple, elegant style....typical of Honda. Just too small for my frame. This one had one of the bi-plane spoilers on the back that was overpowering and to my taste, plain silly. It looked like and ironing board.
Did the S2000 CR look cool? [QUOTE]
That kinda confuses me (not a difficult challenge)...
You need 7,500 miles to BUY a Bluetech? I thought the report on AUTOLINE: Detroit stated you can only lease them NEW in CA fro 2 years, then they have to be resold out of state - so no risk of expired urea packs being driven about in the state. If you can buy Bleutechs used, how will they enforce owners keeping the urea packs replaced / current. That was the stipulation over several states approving Bluetechs for sale?
The S2000 has always been attractive to me. Clean, simple, elegant style....typical of Honda. Just too small for my frame. This one had one of the bi-plane spoilers on the back that was overpowering and to my taste, plain silly. It looked like and ironing board.
11-12-2007, 04:06 PM
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[QUOTE=TampaRL][QUOTE=CL6]You can lease an E Class diesel in CA for 2 years. There are only 100 available however. You can buy any diesel in CA if it has at least 7,500 miles on it. All MB diesels will be sold in CA when the 09s show. I'm sure the other brands are the same way, too.
Did the S2000 CR look cool?
That kinda confuses me (not a difficult challenge)...
You need 7,500 miles to BUY a Bluetech? I thought the report on AUTOLINE: Detroit stated you can only lease them NEW in CA fro 2 years, then they have to be resold out of state - so no risk of expired urea packs being driven about in the state. If you can buy Bleutechs used, how will they enforce owners keeping the urea packs replaced / current. That was the stipulation over several states approving Bluetechs for sale?
The S2000 has always been attractive to me. Clean, simple, elegant style....typical of Honda. Just too small for my frame. This one had one of the bi-plane spoilers on the back that was overpowering and to my taste, plain silly. It looked like and ironing board.
The S2000 at the show is the Club racer model, designed for track use, not really for street use, per ALL the magazines. too stiff, racing 140 treadwear tires, big spoiler, stiffer shocks with the stiffer springs, etc.
Designed to show off what it can do on the track, only 1500 will be sold.
Did the S2000 CR look cool?
That kinda confuses me (not a difficult challenge)...
You need 7,500 miles to BUY a Bluetech? I thought the report on AUTOLINE: Detroit stated you can only lease them NEW in CA fro 2 years, then they have to be resold out of state - so no risk of expired urea packs being driven about in the state. If you can buy Bleutechs used, how will they enforce owners keeping the urea packs replaced / current. That was the stipulation over several states approving Bluetechs for sale?
The S2000 has always been attractive to me. Clean, simple, elegant style....typical of Honda. Just too small for my frame. This one had one of the bi-plane spoilers on the back that was overpowering and to my taste, plain silly. It looked like and ironing board.
Designed to show off what it can do on the track, only 1500 will be sold.
11-12-2007, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TampaRL
You need 7,500 miles to BUY a Bluetech? I thought the report on AUTOLINE: Detroit stated you can only lease them NEW in CA fro 2 years, then they have to be resold out of state - so no risk of expired urea packs being driven about in the state. If you can buy Bleutechs used, how will they enforce owners keeping the urea packs replaced / current. That was the stipulation over several states approving Bluetechs for sale?
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