OK. I'm old enough to have driven:

1. Full size RWD 98 Oldsmobiles with 455 cubic inch engines.
2. Full size FWD Chrysler LHSs with 6 cylinder engines.
3. And now, a 2006 AWD RL.

Car number 1 was a good road car but could only go sideways in snow even with snow tires.
Car number 2 was better but not perfect in snow.
Car number 3 is the best all road condition automobile I've ever driven. I'm not an SUV fan. MY RL gives me all the performance I need in a car and goes in snow like no other car I've ever driven.

My question is and I ask this out of ignorance "why would anyone want a RWD RL?" I live in the Northeast and can't imagine not having at least a FWD car.

Many on this forum want a RWD RL. Again, I ask out of ignorance, why?

 

Because they don't live in the Snowbelt.

However, i'd at least want the option of RWD for the car for performance and better gas mileage.

 

Hi,
I can only mention what I've had in mind, when I've bought an RL originally.
I've bought, SH-AWD because it's performance abilities, not because car was "AWD" (That is why maybe it was replaced later by the "street" V8 car with a better gas mileage as well). There is no snow in Bay Area, unless you drive up the mountains during winter. But even if I would, I'd rather rely on the car with the better clearance (4X4 SUV). Plus I didn't want RL paint to be ruined by rocks/salt/etc... during winter mountain trips anyway.

 

I move around a lot, so I think I'd be making a mistake if I bought a car without AWD. My first car was a Mustang, and I lived in northern Virginia. One winter of fishtailing my way up snow-covered hills was enough to dissuade me from buying another RWD car again.

 

I live on an island in Ga that gets covered up with snow birds in the winter. In 44 yrs we have had 1 snow that stuck for more than 24 hours. Why would I want a car that is more expensive, heavier, more parts to break, less efficient and slower. Thats why I drive rwd.

 

With all due respect, when people talk about overpriced cars and with "more parts to break" I first think of MB and BMW, very unreliable cars. Thats why most people in this forum own Acuras to begin with. Actually the RL is a better car for everyday life than a RWD, better with rain, snow, bouncing balls, etc. better taking turns, etc. Good luck trying the get the most out of your RWD driving to work.

 

I agree with the OP’s with the notion of why the “necessity” for a V8 on the upcoming 3rd generation RL. I understand on the perceptive of trying to match up on “paper” vs. big boy’s competitor such as the Lexus LS460, A6/A8, and BMW & Benz V8’s but in truth they are just in a different category. The true rivals of the RL is more of a mid-size luxury such as the 535xi, M35x, GS350awd and from that standpoint Acura’s “SH-AWD” is far superior in handling and performance.

I live in Colorado so the winter months sometimes feel more like an icy obstacle course rather then just frozen pavement and I can attest that the RL has passed flawlessly. For that reasoning, choosing a SH-AWD vs. RWD V8 was a no brainer.

I think adding a RWD V8 would be a viable option but I highly doubt it would lead to a major increase in sales. However from the 2009 Acura lineup RDX, MDX, TL & RL all have SH-AWD, so if that pattern continues I doubt a RW V8 will be added in the near feature.

 

RWD/V8 is only a necessity for car forum types and auto magazine writers/bloggers. It's been noted here before, but of the competing brands mentioned, relatively very few RWD/V8 cars are sold compared to the V6 models. It's comical that someone would trot out the "more parts to break" argument using BMW and MB as the comparison. As for those who live in warm weather parts of the country, why buy a heavy V6/AWD RL then complain about the fact that it's heavy and has a V6 and AWD? Part of the problem is that Acura didn't do enough to tout the benefits of SH-AWD as an all-weather performance feature. Most people view AWD as an inclement weather feature only. But then, Acura didn't do enough to market or position the RL anyway.

Given the state of the economy, government mandates for higher mileage cars, and Honda's financially conservative nature, I doubt we'll be seeing a V8/RWD Acura anytime soon.

 

Rumor has it that Acura is planning a V8 SH-AWD version but has been put on hold. I don't know if the rumor is true or not. But is something to wish for more power with a V8.

 

I'd like to think people want what people want.

What I find mostly is people want what they are told to want....by peers, by marketing, by media or some other source.

I did not think I needed or wanted AWD or SHAWD, especially living in Florida. Now that I have the RL, I don't think I would live without it. I have no snow, no ice but I can tell you I have seen that MID display working when I did not think SHAWD needed to. And on the gushing rainstorms we have here I have seen cars slide on off ramps and turns I wondered what the fuss was about. And I confess, I seek routes where twisties will offer me a chance to giggle like a schoolgirl. SHAWD on the RL offers me the best of FWD, RWD and a sense of security I did not know I was missing.

V8...some people gotta have it. I am perfectly fine with the power, performance and efficiency of the RL. Before pining for a V8, my preference would be for a torquey Honda green V6 diesel (on hold) and another gear in the tranny.

 

100+ on the statement, where most of the people buys more expensive models just because of the brand. But not all of us, especially the ones who has owned RL in the past - I believe we truly know the price/luxury/performance aspect which Acura RL has and how stunning this vehicle is.
I don't think Acura RL needs V8 engine myself, certainly not combined with SH-AWD (V8 should be Acura vehicle of completely different class - similar to A8/S class Merc/7 series, etc...) I don't think diesel motors would boost the sales either (look at Volkswagen and BMW diesel motors in US - people simply don't see much appeal from this engines here cause of the diesel prices). My guess, Acura would need to spread their models apart much further (RL and TL) in terms of size,features,performance,etc... so flagship owner would really feel like ones [extra features, exclusive gadgets,etc... which other model owners could only get on this vehicle, or order separately]. (For example it drove me mad having 2008 RL and my friend's 2008 TL (prev gen) - where TL had better Bluetooth support, Voice Recognition, etc...). It looks to me, with RL, Acura created a perfect "donor" to donate all the parts RL has to the other (more cheaper) vehicles, but at the same time, add only little upgrade to RL, through out the model years.
Now, when SH-AWD has 4 of the cars in Acura lineup, RL is not so exclusive anymore. And I'm not sure if build quality and extra additional electronic features alone would be enough to set TL and RL apart.
How about to building completely separate platform for RL, completely different from Accord, like every other luxury company does. It might hurt reliability at first, but it would catch up. In my opinion, customer (especially luxury high end customer - judging from RL price tag) needs to feel exclusive.
On other thread, edmunds video link was given by jfarabaugh: http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...y?control=true which shows how amazing this vehicle is. In 2005 this was all true. Unfortunately, since that time, mentioned competitors have changed, newer been added , so if we would do it all over again, Acura most likely would not be first [New Genesis, BMW 535ix with newer 300/300 engine]

 

How many race cars have FWD only, just a few.
Also, 300 hp is about the limit for FWD axles and drive train, torque is another major problem with FWD.
Too much weight on the front, etc.

If you need good winter traction, get snow tires, they make ALL the difference in the world. Much more than FWD.

 

kirbyFlorida

My neighbor has an MB E350 RWD with snow tires and I watched while he hopelessly tried to go up only a slight incline on our block. Slipped and slid all over the place and finally made it after 4 or 5 tries. I went up the same incline with my RL with normal all weather tires and never slipped or slid.

 

I never said two wheels drive will beat 4 wheel drive. Tires still make all the difference in the world, I have read tests in Car mags and done it real world in Wisconsin for 30 years.

 

For everyone that lives in non snow areas, I think that wet weather handling is often overlooked. It seems like most think AWD is only important in the snow, however, everyone drives in wet weather at some point.

 

I can safely assume that the rumor will be squash immediately, unless Acura can design a hybrid (similarly to the Lexus LS600h’s v8 5.0 liter 389hp with a 20-22 mpg) because I couldn’t imagine what the dismay MPG of a crazy new v8 SH-AWD 4.5 liter 400hp RL would yield.

 

The best argument for rwd is sales. Every competitor that offers rwd along with awd, the rwd models outsell the awd. That has to be good for the bottom line.

 

I'd think, 400HP is overkill. Currently Acura loves to chase HP figures, but I think for V8 to be successful for Acura (if that is to happen in the near future), it needs appropriate ft-lbs figures. 300+ HP is more than enough as long as torque numbers are close. (Plus new 6-7 spd transmission, plus new independent platform)

 

Right on Dan. I'm confused also sometimes like the OP how often I hear that drum getting beat around here. If someone wants a performance orientated sedan with with 4+ powertrain and body config options to choose from, go stop in at a BMW or MB dealership. Why so many want Acura to change into something different always amazes me. Hard to be everything for everyone. But, if you try (like MB and BMW) the cars value gets shot to sh*t because of the enourmous overhead of all those variants.

Funny thing is, if they offered a V8 FR option, I'd bet big money everyone here saying it's necessary wouldn't buy it. How do I know that? Because you're here If it was that important you'd already own a CTS-v, BMW 550i, E550, etc. That's the part that makes me We want one? What's stopping us? There's plenty of brands that can accomodate our needs. What's probably stopping most from buying that E63 is the price and reliability. Ah, now we're onto something. It's the other thing we all probably have in common. Reliability and value are a top priority for Acura buyers. Again, can't be everything for everyone.

 

SpiceyMikey,

IMHO, your comments certainly settled the discussion for me and probably for many others here who drive 2nd gen RLs and are happy that they do.

 

I think those date numbers you are stating are a bit skewed. For example, all base BMW models are rwd unless you pay the premium for the “xDrive” awd models but on the flip side aren’t most Audi sedans “Quattro” meaning the awd out sales the rwd even though they offer both models?

 

Yea, there's no question RWD would outsell AWD. But that said, FWD would outsell AWD also. No mystery why. AWD is more expensive. It's a flawed argument for RWD.

The only thing I see being a real world advantage with RWD over FWD is the better feel when accelerating hard on a turn. No torque steer to get in your way. But how often do you punch it on a curve? Not a reason enough for me to avoid FWD given it's better handling benefits in bad weather.

The other argument (better weight distribution, etc.) is BS for a car like this. How many people here are taking their RL to the track this weekend to do some drifting? Raise your hands.

 

Here - raise my hand, been taken car for a track spin, when I own it.
About car value (BMW,MB) - fully agree, they take pretty big hit for the first 2 yrs, especially V8 models. That is the good thing for the buyers, I'd say , cause I still have 2 yrs for full free maintenance left on mine. BTW, RL 2nd gen depreciation curve is pretty steep as well (bought 2008 model in 2008 for 41, less than 10 month later couldn't sell it for 34).
This is universal, with some minimal exceptions - the more car costs, the more it depreciates.

 

^^^ OK, vladfrenkel gets a pass and can complain. Everyone else needs to sit quietly and just read his postings

 

Audi does not make a rwd sedan either fwd or quattro. I would not pay 40-50k for fwd, that is why the majority of A6's are quattro.

 

As everyone on here wants to point out to me Audi sells primarily quattro A6's this is because the option is fwd. In this price point people do not want to deal with torque steer. Most competitors offer rwd and awd options, I am just saying that in my opinion Acura ought to also if they want to be a significant force in the RL's market segment.

 

Hmm, I wonder what may have triggered this type of response.
No offence. But reading your postings folks are much more entertaining ^-^ ( This is amazing board BTW)
Just because we love Acuras doesn't mean there are no other vehicles out there. As I've said many times before - RL is an amazing vehicle and if someone would measure Performance * Value * Reliability and Price tag associated with it - this would be an overall leader, or maybe TIE with Genesis.
But take those categories separately (excl.. Realiability) - you'll see there are other vehicles out there (with bigger price tag of course)

 

I was being funny (trying at least). All your points are excellent

 

bottom line:

because you CAN'T do this in a FWD car..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K_0f...eature=related

 

Thanks.

 

Thanks for pointing that out SSIM3, I always thought the big 3 German's had all their base model rwd with the optional awd as a premium upgrade.

My question is, if there was no price different between rwd&fwd / awd (normally around $4-5k)would the sales of the rwd still outsell the awd?

Benz rwd vs. 4matic
BMW rwd vs. Xdrive
Audi fwd vs. quattro
Acura fwd vs. Sh-Awd

 

Good one.
Couldn't say about all mfctrs, but for BMW tried 535i and 535xi - it's 2 different beast. Handling is waaay better on normal (i) version compared to xi (Don't get me wrong, xi is great vehicle and stack up pretty nicely against AWD competitors, but (i) version is better in terms of handling).
So, question would mostly be what the average crowd wants - handling (don't forget for German 3 handling/performance is the huge selling point - plus in some contries RWD considered classics - e.g "nice to have"/"good to have") or winter performance (that is why SH-AWD is so good, cause it allows you to compromise, by creating something in the middle - AWD car with good handling)

 

The RWD or FWD would likely sell more IMHO.

PERCEPTION is still a major factor in the buying public. AWD systems have a rep as more complex and weight negating the safety and performance benefits.

And in today's economy, even a slight penalty in fuel efficiency would cancel out any benefit of an AWD system for most drivers, even at the same cost.

Me thinks people shy away from what they do not understand, or are easily persuaded from it. Even with the RL only coming with SHAWD configuration, there is enough 'I don't need that' out there to cool interest.

As mentioned earlier...I never thought I would see enough benefit for an AWD system in Florida, and did not have it on my shopping check list. I treated AWD vs FWD vs RWD as a moot feature for my driving habits. Now I will be pressed to opt out of it (especially a dynamic AWD system), which has greatly reduced the number of vehicles I have to consider.

 

I love my AWD RL also Tampa. But I feel just as secure and comfortable in my daughters Fwd TL. I'd prefer an AWD car but have to admit it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me when looking for a car.

 

Audi does not make RWD all FWD platforms if I am not mistaken.

 

If given a potent enough 6 cylinder then the RL could be competitive to a degree. As is the RL is seriously lacking in torque unless your past 5k and makes for a very dissatisfying driving experience due to it's lack of HP/tq. The car is simply too heavy and underpowered as is. Of course this is subjective and there will be those that find it is the greatest thing that rolled off a production line or just sufficient. It's a fine vehicle, but a V8 would really give it the needed ooomph to compete with other makes. If it had an extra cog or more torque further down then I would consider it to be an awesome car.

 

I missed a good discussion.

I will say, again, that for those who value V8/RWD it's important for a top-of-the-line, tier 1 luxury car to have this as an option simply for the perception value. Most people will buy a V6/SH-AWD version but having a "halo" car with V8/RWD with a beautiful exterior design will drive sales of the V6 models....part of the marketing. The CTS is a perfect example of this (though the CTS is more an entry level lux car).

I will always ask...."what if Honda had contracted with Mugen for the Legend Max (500 hp V8 AWD ) and had it exported to the U.S. as an RL-S?" I wonder if that would have driven sales for the RL and gotten the attention of enthusiasts. That concept car sure got MY attention.

 

Yes Bob no doubt it would help the image. It would also help the price of the 6cyl model go up to carry th cost of that 8 cyl variant. Not sure if the effects of both would cancel each other out when it came to sales. My guess: It would probably be a good thing as you suggest