23109VC

I had posted here a while back that I was considering an RX8.. I've pretty much scrapped that idea... the car is not luxurious enough to satisfy me.. and I just can't have a car that doesn't seat 5.

I have driven a 335i and really liked it. that car is a tad on the small side for my needs.

I was recently looking at prices on cars.com of CPO 535s and noted that they are NOT that much.

there are plenty of 2008s in the high 20s... and TONS in the 25-35k price range. Nice ones.

I"ve seen youtube videos of guys with a simple ECU piggyback mod out running e39 M5s, e46 M3s... they are rocket ships... i would suspect a 535i bone stock would perhaps out handle even an aspec RL???

i know blazin GT got himself a 535i...

any of you check one out, drive one... have any insights as to how the 535i would handle and perform vs the rL???

thanks.

tnobori1

I'll tell you what you already know... Repair costs/time are the major drawbacks to German sleds. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but based on the difficulty you've had pulling the trigger on suspension for the RL; regular $1000 bills for tiny problems should be a big deterrent.

rlerman

Acura is not that cheap to fix either these days. I like the 535, always thought that might be my next car after the RL goes. Much better exterior styling than RL, not so sure about interior or performance. CPO gives you a full year to iron out the bugs and if you get a low mileage car, you can probably get an extended warranty.

oo7spy

RL repair costs may be comparable, but the frequency of issues is increased with BMW. Also, I don't like how the 5-series looks on the outside. IMHO, the 3 and 7-series are more appealing.

037

I drove Blazing GTs car and I can say this: tons more power than the RL, handling is definitely better stock for stock, I felt it was shaky compared to my H&R with summer tires setup but then again, you can get summers for the bimmer and I'm sure it'll beat it.

I have read somewhere that 535xi is the least reliable Bimmer out of their entire line up.

If you can get one with 100k warranty like Blazing did...I approve.

acuraRL07

haven't driven one but from what i read online it even handles better than new 5 series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaw8p__T62w

this seems to be a good deal for a car that has 30k miles http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...512481993.html

rlerman

I have to disagree strongly with this one. My 05 RL has been the worst daily driver I have had in 25 years. I have had a ton of repairs done to the car in just over three years and 30k miles, including having the torque converter replaced at a cost of over $2k. Headlight system replaced, prop shaft bearing, etc. etc. Luckily, I am under warranty for another 9 months and haven't had to pay a cent to fix anything. I am now fairly confident all of the bugs have been ironed out as its been several months since anything has gone wrong, but took a while to get here.

white05rl

The 535 will be an awesome car (as long as it's not the AWD version - very unreliable). My wife has a 2008 528i with about 51K miles on it. My 2005 RL has about the same. The BMW has a much more "solid" feeling and gobs of low-end torque compared to the RL. The handling is better, so is the ride and it seems quieter. We just drove to Florida from Dallas. This year we took the wife's car and got 31.7MPG - while doing 80mph with air conditioning and a full load.

She has had a few problems, but not more than I have had with my car. The warranty just ran out (at 50K miles), so every repair has been covered.

Be prepared, the BMW will NOT compare to all the cool electronic gadgets the RL has. And there's no comparison between the NAV systems...the RL wins big-time!

oo7spy

I was talking about out of tens of thousands of cars. There will be a 535 that never even has a flat, and there will be a RL won't make it a year without problems. Those are outliers. The study have been done, and BMW has more issues per x-thousand cars than Acura and definitely Honda as a whole. Your RL is a 1st year production car with a history of issues. Out of the thousands of RLs and 535s in the nation, I would put money on the RL having, on average, lower total repair costs and fewer issues than the 535s have. It all depends on the car you get, an average one or an outlier.

kid spartan

Another thing you might consider is the exclusivity of these cars, in the 535 you're just another joe blow, but the RL is truly unique, for better or worse. If standing out is something that matters to you, this is one thing to think about.

23109VC

i am considering my options. i like the idea of the massive torque/power of the 535... but to get a nice one, I'd be going further into debt.

I only owe about 17k on my RL... it will be paid off soon. I could throw $1000 into the RL and just do aspec suspension... get the handling to the point where it corners really well... and then when the RL is paid off... and I feel the finances allow it, grab a newer/low mileage cayman or boxster and just get my true sports car fix satisfied....

I am fearful of the long term repairs on the 535.... My RL is covered for another 2 full years..and then it is off warranty.... expensive stuff can break on the RL too... I'm not under some delusion that my RL will drive forever with no major costs... eventually it too will have $$ items break...

I do agree, the 535 will likely have far higher repair costs.. anything on a 535 costs more to fix than it would on the RL... BMW parts cost more, repairs cost more.. period. I had a boxster... nothing was ever "cheap" to fix.. nothing.

buying a brand new 535 and only owning it under warranty would be a far different experience than having a used OFF warranty 535... if I did get one, it would HAVE to be CPO.. although on BMW I think the CPO program is not quite as good as Acura... not sure..i will have to look into that.

bang for the buck.. it would be far cheaper to just throw aspec onto the RL.. maybe wheels... and enjoy the RL for what it is.. a very nice luxury car with a sporty edge... but it would never be the rocket sled a chipped 535i could be...

a chipped 535i is a beast...

will see.... the wifey gets some input...

either way I go I still have a nice car....

Blazing GT

my input now:

The 535xi which I have cannot and I mean cannot beat the RL in terms of interior styling and the navigation. That is it.

Everything else in the 535xi is full of win. The car has gobs of power and the nandling is way better than my RL even with the H&R. You cant even compare it...

My car is covered bumper to bumper up to 100k and also my fuel pump is covered for 10 years!!!!

Hands down>than the RL.

But blazing GT RL was a special breed so i dont know lol

23109VC

Thanks blazin. I wonder how handling would be on a non-AWD 535 VS an aspec RL?

Blazin, did you upgrade your ecu with a juice box or similar product?

Was your 100k warranty a third party warren or through BMW? Also, what did that cost? I assume you bought an extended warranty at the time of purchase...

Thanks again.

Blazing GT

I think handling the BMW will always win. The 5 series is like the best handling midsize sedan out there.

I did not upgrade my ecu. I am not doing anything to this car. I did not even tint it. Remember i said im not wasting no more money on mods because im having a baby in november.

My warranty is third party but i know this company because i do financing. It cost me the cost of the warranty which was approx 2400$. This warranty covers everything from bumper to bumper.

You have to know which 3rd party warranty to get because there are a lot of shitty warranties out there.BMW was trying to charge me 6000$ HA!...Im not a fool

23109VC

Congrats on the baby.... Everything will change...for the better!

I have three of my own....

Enjoy the 535, one nice ride.

Blazing GT

Thanks!!

ichi d

OP so are you going to get a 535i now or are you going to mod your RL?

sivikvtec

Lets ask Google if this is a good idea:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=535i+high+press...l+pump+failure

Why anyone would buy an N54 powered BMW is beyond me...

Nothing short of a time bomb waiting to happen.

Blazing GT

well its not the engine waiting to blow....

its the fuel pump. Must be something about the car since there are a lot more N54 5 series out there than RLs.

The Fuel Pump is covered by BMW for 120k/10yrs.

That is a lot coverage

sivikvtec

My argument is not really about cost, but about safety and inconvenience. I cannot imagine paying that kind of money for a car that could leave me stranded at any second without warning. Time wasted dealing with the dealer to get it fixed, risk of getting stuck in a remote area or on the side of the freeway..etc.

For the most part BMWs are decent cars, I have an older M3. I hope that BMW figures out how to redesign the pump for good at some point to actually fix the problem. At that point, I would consider the car a good buy.

pickler

RL if you wanna keep. 535 if you wanna lease. stay away from used BMWs

23109VC

that is probably true. Another thing I learned about German cars was from the Porsche forum I used to read. People looking to buy used porsche's would post questions about deals they found.. stuff like "hey i found this great porsche, it's a great deal, should I buy".

the answer was usually something like this : "The least expensive Porsche you BUY will be the MOST EXPENSIVE to own and maintain".

I learned that the hard way. Mine was fairly cheap to get, and cost me a pile to upkeep. fixing german cars is not cheap and they do not build the parts to last. they may make them perform well.. but they don't put reliability at the top of the priority list.

I"m considering aspec suspension, or H&Rs. I like the idea of the aspec being OEM parts, and beign designed for the car. i wish it was lower. although I don't see myself spending big money on nice 19" wheels.. maybe i'd do 18" aspecs...and with smaller wheels, a modest drop on aspec susp would look ok.

if I dump the car on HRs... I might want the bigger wheels..and I"m not going to buy those.. i don't see myself sinking huge money into the RL on mods.

Ill have it paid off in three years.. at that point I'll either keep it as my long term DD and try to get into another third car if finances allow..or at that point, i'll have enough equity in the RL to sell it and put anice down payment on a more sporty oriented sedan. we'll see.

SSjTrunks112O

Nicely said! I was just thinking the same thing. Exclusivity is a good thing.. I see MB E350's everywhere I turn (even more that the BMW 5's) although they are both beautiful cars.. The slow selling & lack of marketing from Acura of the RL has also led to literally many thousands off sticker prices!! When was the last time you saw an RL commercial, even for the freshened '11's.. You will NEVER get a NEW car as nice or with as many bells and whistles as an RL Tech at the 42k-46k range!!

csmeance

A 535 with a modded ECU will certainly blow the RL out of the water however maintenance costs will do the same as well. German cars are prone to break esp. because of all the various electronics and modules that need programming!

If you get one, invest in a warranty! I paid 10K for my warranty on my 760 an they have spend 23K (after negotiations) on repairs on my 760 in the past 1.5 years!

db22

You have got to be kidding - have the got out of the showroom yet?

rlx015

Price tag of 10k on the warranty IMHO is NUTS! (No offense intended) ... then in 18 months 23k is spent for repairs... What happened to your car that broke down and was fixed under warranty!?!?! That's around $1300 a month just for repairs!?!?!
I don't know if you got the lemon, but dude 10k on warranty itself is out of question and hands down unheard of!!!
I hope you don't take this personal but man o man - I am super surprised someone would buy expensive car and pay extra 10k for warranty...

Posted thread question wise: I am sure if I drove BMW I would like it more than RL - but at this time, no german cars for me... my pocket is not really that deep

Blazing GT

$10k for a warranty?

But you have to look at is a 760 BMW.

But 10k$ for a warranty is outrageous.

danmm7

iTrader: (1)

I have to agree with everyone here that the 535i dominates the RL when it comes to road manners, speed, fun and sportiness - stock or modded. No question about it. I've driven stock 535i and there is almost no comparison when it comes to torque and responsiveness. The interior and the comfort - the opposite. I hate how basic and out dated the 5-series cars are inside. BMW needs to take a note from Audi, Lexus, Acura..etc.

My biggest issues with this car (used 535) is the fuel pump problems listed all over the Internet. The fact that BMW extended the warranty on the fuel pump for such a long period (10yrs) shows you two things - 1. this is a wide spread problem and 2. they do not have a 'fix' or better pump to replace the bad units with.
Warranty or not, if many of the people (including some of my friends who have the N54 engine) have to replace the fuel pump 2-3 or even 4 times already - this is a major inconvenience. This issue cannot be "ironed out" or at least BMW does not want to do it.
I do not have the time or desire to deal with such hassle when i buy a so called 'luxury' car for 30k. I don't care how fast or sporty it is. Being stranded on the side of the road more than once is not an option.

And yes, BMW sells a lot of these cars, more than Acura has sold RLs. It's a "cool bimmer". Also, many of the BMWs on the street are leased! Wonder why? Does the higher number of cars on the street mean that BMWs are more reliable than RL?? Absolutely not. People buy and use cars for different reasons. A LOT of people buy cars for the 'image' factor and they know nothing about cars. Other buy them because of low cost or features. There a lot of Fords and Dodge cars out there too ... does this make them reliable and great cars??

oo7spy

I'm sure BMW could find a way to make a reliable fuel pump, but I would put money on it being cheaper to replace the crappy ones (with other potentially crappy ones) than R&D a reliable one. Same thing happened with Ford and the Pinto in the '70s with the gas tank exploding on rear end impacts. It was brought to Ford's attention by its engineers, but paying settlements was cheaper than changing an assembly line. It's all about the $$$.

Personally, I enjoy having a car that you don't see everyday. I would loose count of the 3, 5, or even 7-series BMWs I see IN A WEEK. I still haven't even got to 10 '05+ RLs I have seen EVER, and I can remember where I was and what I was doing for everyone. I think I am at 9, not including my own. On the other hand, I lose count of the TLs I see.

23109VC

lots of very good and true opinions and facts in this thread.

thanks everyone. I have NOT 100% committed to selling my RL... but I might do it. If I sell it, the three cars I'm considering would be a NEWER 09-10 RL, a 535i, or an 09+ TL.

If I replace my car, I'm not goign to buy new, it will be a used CPO car. I want to keep my final purchase price (minus taxes, etc.) to about $30k.

most of the TL SH-AWD, 535i, and newer RLs, are all stickered in the mid to high 30s. some in the low 30s. I'm sure with some negotiating, any of these cars could be had in the 30k area.

I have NOT test driven a 535i or the newer RL. I have driven the 5 series (not a 535i) but have driven my relatives 335i... so I have an idea what the 5'er woudl be like.

I am not leasing. I am buying.

I like the idea of getting a 535i and then modding the ECU and making gobs of power. that would be fun. i'm reluctant, however, due to fears that somehow the dealer would get wind of what I did (even if I uninstall it all) and I could, potentially, wind up with some major issues and no coverage. that would SUCK. I know a TL or RL woudl be a problem free vehicle...

bang for teh buck... a used RL is hard to beat. it's not nearly as exciting as a 535i..and there is no way to mod an RL like a 535i.... but to me, the RL is more exclusive...and just as elegant.. if not more so. the newer RL looks really nice inside iwth hte updated shifter, nicer steering wheel, extra wood trim..

I also like the updated nav screen on the newer TL... and I swear the new TL seems as big or bigger in the back seat than the RL! is it???

anyone care to offer guesses as to what a real world selling price woudl be for say an 09-10 TL SH-AWD or RL... assume CPO at a dealer with 30-40k miles MAX.

thanks.

037

09+ RL at that mileage will be over 30k, I've been watching them on ebay for about month and a half now.

celynka

Warranty prices are based on the actual risk factor of braking. With BMW it is almost 100% that it will develop problems and that is why it is so high. I ve seen on ebay recently a desperate 2002 745 owner sell it for 6k. List of problems was kind of long .

23109VC

Most of the 09-10 RLs are in the mid to high 30s.... But who knows how motivated they will be....

The 535 price range is all over theplace. You can find one for 30 and another with more options is 45k....they are all different...due to so much variation in options and equipment.

A chipped 535 would be a blast.... But the rl is a slick car....

guss_90

I like BMW 3 series, 535i , 545i, They look Great! But Expensive.
I'm the kind of guy who likes old cars well maintain.

My opinion If you Lease ( You are paying car + maintenance with the monthly payment, PLUS having the restriction of Miles.

If You plan to keep the RL, like im looking for until it hit 260K miles, recommend to pay it off and modify Ur Ride. Everyone it's different, For me, On my RL I will put my 6spd manual TL-S on the RL ( Car was made without that option ) That will complete the car.
The RL respond quickly, handles good for my driving and likes features on the 05 RL. My Vote... RL.
Future Vision= Keep RL even with 260K miles and buy a 2006 Z06.

tnobori1

6 speed RL? You're either brave or foolish. Either way, document for the board!

037

6 speed may not work unless you swap it out from a newer TL, I think RL will just chew it up and spit it out. I see headache in your future.

oo7spy

Foolishness can easily be mistaken for bravery...

23109VC

forget a manual tranny in the RL... there is a reason why Acura doesn't make one.. they would sell a handful of them.. not even worth their hassle to even *think* of producing it...

the bottom line is the 535 would be a pile faster, and likely handle better.

the RL would be more reliable.

if you compare on luxury features the RL wins when you factor in price.

i'll test drive a 535i and see if I fall in love...

pickler

omg i think this is the 51240601204001241258th topic on bmw vs this and that lol. anyway, i personally would prefer the bmw for lease. but if i were to buy and keep, then the rl looks more attractive. of course if i wanted an RL, i would buy used. probably the 2008 model, i drove it once it was such a cruiser. another pro for the rl, its a rare car. everyone has a 3 and 5 series now days. plus i think RLs are easier to maintain yourself and perhaps modify? surprised i havent seen a supercharged RL in this board. in my opinion, Acura should transform this car in to a muscle car 4 door?. or something to challenge the genesis. sh-awd v6 dohc supercharged with 450 horses, hehe.

23109VC

an RL is easier to modify?? WTF...

you can add a $500 juicebox ECU to a 135/335/535 and run sub 13 second 1/4 miles... an RL can have every bolt on on the world, spend 2000+ on intake/exhaust and you won't break under 15 seconds... maybe hihg 14s if you were going downhill with a tailwind..

you can't mod anRL to be fast. period. they are nice.. they are quick enough.. but NOT fast.

the 535 is fast stock. with a chip they are flat out screamers. BUT..and this is a big issue... one wil have more problems and they will cost more to fix on a bMW.

tons of people are getting stranded with busted fuel pumps on the turbo BMW motors... I have heard of no one getting stranded with their RL.. at least not any recurring problem that is systemic....


i'll have to test drive a 535i...

AND I need to get a realistic trade in quote for my RL. I have 55k miles on my 06. it also is CPO with the "wrap" until mid 2013. I owe about 16500 on it. any chance I will break even or make a grand or two on it as a trade or will they try to rape me and give me like 10k for it?