Chas2

357 units down from 1019 last September or -63.4%

Total Sales this year to date is 4919 vs 9081 same time last year, or -45.8%

TSX and TL were also down, but the SUVs were up as expected!

10/02/2007 - TORRANCE, Calif. -

American Honda Motor Co., Inc., posted record September sales of 127,200 Honda and Acura vehicles, up 13.8 percent on a daily-selling-rate basis*, the company announced today. American Honda year-to-date sales totaled 1,193,520, up 2.8 percent on a daily-selling-rate basis*.

Honda Division posted record September sales of 112,831, up 17.5 percent compared to last year. September records for individual models included the CR-V with sales of 19,769, up 68.7 percent for the month; the Odyssey with sales of 16,464, up 24.2 percent for the month; and Fit sales of 4,565, up 139.1 percent for the month. Accord sales increased 31.2 percent to 35,031. Honda Division total truck sales of 48,120, up 15.3 percent, set a new September record.

"The mid-September launch of the all-new Accord helped increase sales momentum for both the model and the Honda brand," said Dick Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda. "The diverse lineup of Honda cars and light trucks has become the strongest and most competitive in the company's history."

Acura Division posted sales of 14,369 with new September records set for the MDX and RDX sport utility vehicles. Sales of the MDX increased 34.1 percent to 5,162; RDX sales increased 19.1 percent to 1,951. Overall, Acura light-truck sales increased by 29.6 percent to 7,113. September sales of the TL luxury performance sedan totaled 4,324; the TSX sports sedan totaled 2,574.

*The daily selling rate (DSR) is calculated with 25 days for September 2007, versus 26 days for September 2006. Year-to-date, the DSR is calculated with 230 days for 2007 and 2006. All percentages reflect DSR.

synth19

wow, are cars are becoming as exclusive as the NSX.

noobie

One has to wonder how low that number would have been if the last of the 2007s with their $3,500 marketing support were not mixed in there.

How long do you think it will take them to put marketing support back again or live with around 200 to 300 sales a month or less.

By comparison, Mercedes sold close to five thousand E class cars. Lexus GS sales were soft as well at just over 1500.

SpicyMikey

Numbers keep dropping 20% month over month. At this rate they will be at zero by spring

Good news is there newer models are doing well. Right now Acura is an SUV maker

I hope the redesigned TL and TSX are hits next year. Then follow that up with the NSX and a rethinking of the "flagship" sedan.

Chas2

Just came from my dealer and there are loads of RLs (I counted at least 10 new ones) on the lot, and I was not even looking hard. There was a NBP ACC/CMBS/PAX on the show room floor center stage.

They have 24 2008 RLs in website inventory, two base, the rest tech package, no ACC/CMBS packages, which of course does not jive with the one on showroom floor.

Rob144

Well, so much for my thought that "safety sells". Absolutely no "bounce" from the high safety ratings bestowed upon the RL a few months ago.

Our capable and well-rounded wallflower is going down without a fight.... It deserves better.

Rob144

SpicyMikey

If they come out with a new larger and more powerful TSX and TL next year (which seems to be the industry trend), then the RL will totally get lost. They MUST refresh the RL next year in some way even if it's not a full redesign.

dwboston

If they don't make any changes in 08 for the 09 model year (3.7L engine?) then you'd have to expect a totally new '10 model in 2009. I don't think the situation is really all that dire. As long as MDX sales stay strong and the new TSX and TL sell well next year then there's really nothing to worry about. RL sales have been below expectations since the initial pop when the car was first released. Acura won't likely abandon the RL's segment entirely for competitive purposes and they'll address the perceived issues in a refresh/redesign.

All the parts are on national backorder anyway. It's not like the low sales are hurting us in that regard.

neuronbob

Agree.

This is where the 1G RL was selling the year before the 2G RL was released. There are 280 Acura dealers in the U.S. That means a bit more than one per dealer this month.

Acura's situation overall is not too bad, though. The MDX and RDX are doing well, and the TL and TSX are so long in the tooth that poorer sales are expected. It's really the same for the RL--it's no longer a new, flashy model.

Chas2

How true. I did notice on the 2008 sticker, all the five star safety ratings.

noobie

If things continue to get worse, they may have to consider renaming it Q45 They seem to be giving it about as much support.

Rob144

If the TL features SH-AWD, then the RL will be completely lost in the line-up without some changes. I'm just not sure how much they can do with the current body structure and hard points, and whether they would bother for just the US. This gen Legend/RL is less than 2 years old in some markets, so a change would be unlikely.

Rob144

geronimomoe

Yep, I'm seeing the same thing in Northern NJ. Dealer's (3) I checked out on the web had anywhere from 9-14 08 RL's each.

I'm wondering like noobie when they'll bring back marketing support? Also, how much? $3500, $4000, $4500?

This reminds me of the Toyota Cressida from the 80's. Great car, extreme high quality but a poor seller. Production ended at model year 1989.

geronimomoe

They can try to get more torque/hp out of the engine. Also, how hard is it to get the iVTEC in this car, like the Accord or Odyssey?

neuronbob

The Q45 line is no joke given the drop in sales.

I personally think that if Acura can't or won't get the job done with the RL, they should drop it and have the TL as the top of the line Acura sedan. Americans obviously don't want it, they want the MDX. I don't think Acura can tolerate many months of this level of sales. Or will they?

With that said, I am hopeful that the 3G RL is better or at least more appealing to the masses than the 2G RL. I wait with bated breath on what Acura has up its sleeve.

No matter how people view this car, I certainly like it and will continue to drive it.

static808

BMW & Mercedes had close to 9,000 cars sold between them.

The japanese makers (Lexus, Infiniti and Acura) had a combined ~3500 cars, with Acura kicking in 357.

This is a tough nut to crack for the Japanese automakers.

Is there a figure that shows # of leases vs. # of purchases. I can see more people opting for a $599/month Benz lease vs. a $499/month RL lease.

SpicyMikey

It's the best kept secret in the car industry, bar none. Even if they sold 2 cars next month it wouldn't change that fact.

g_vros77

LOL

Talk about a rare car. Even rarer than Lamborghini's. How many Q45's have they sold? 1 per year? 2, if they're lucky?

VTEC Racer

The RL is probably the best car in its class. Anyone who has driven one knows this. Weak sales does not mean it is a bad car.

IMO, the RL has a few things going against it.

1.) Exterior Design: I believe that the RL looks a bit to conservative for the class it is trying to compete in. People who pay $50k+ for a car usually do so because being noticed is one of their priorities. The RL just doesn't have that look which makes people notice it as much. I personally feel that the RL is a beautiful car. I love the way it looks from the front and back. However, it's a subtle beauty that most people don't take the time to notice.

2.) Price: I don't believe that the RL is overpriced, I just believe that the starting price is to high (if that makes sense). Acura should have gone the Infiniti and Lexus route and made a bare-bones model priced at like $40k-$41k and let the consumer decide what options they do and don't want. They should have offered like 3 or 4 major option packages. Just a base model with a lower starting MSRP would have done a lot more to lure customers into the showroom to atleast give the RL a chance. I think when people see that the RL has a starting price which is much higher than an M35 or GS350, they immediately dismiss it, not knowing that the RL is already fully loaded. Most people probably think that if the car starts at $50k God knows how much it would cost with a few options. I don't believe the idea that the Acura name just doesn't have enough panache to command a $50k price tag because people are already paying close to that much for the new MDX.

3.) I actually forget what number three is right now.... I'll have to get back to you guys on this one. lol.

PortlandRL

Every time I see a 2G Q45 (the one with the Gatling-Gun headlights) I do a double-take. At it's peak in December of 2002, the Q45 was selling about 200 units a month. That was the best it did until April of '05 when it tanked and never recovered until Infiniti took the poor slob off life support.

See graph here. Hint: it's the asterisks and purple line at the very bottom of the graph.

But in regards to the RL's poor sales, I doubt sub-500 figures is going to fly with corporate but then again I've been wrong before........

mrdeeno

and like the Q45, they should kill it the same and resurrect it later when they get the formula right.

I was parked next to a late model non-sport Q45 ('06 or '07 I think was the final year it was alive with minor upgrades), and except for the headlights, it looked very boring and outdated compared to a 2G M45.

SpicyMikey

Regarding your first point; You're probably right that it is part of the problem. I'm one who worries less then average on what others think of me. I'm more interested in the view from the inside looking out rather then vice versa. However, not sure how significant that is to explain the ridiculous sales numbers on this fine car.

Regarding point two; That might not be true because it doesn't explain the good sales for the MDX, RDX. This "fully loaded" concept is used across the entire Acura line. Doesn't seem to be hurting sales for those vehicles. OR, would sales just be that much better on the MDX if they offered a stripped version without leather, etc. like MB and BMW do? Saw a new MB C class commercial today. Starting at $31,395!!!! Yea, right. "Steering wheel optional"

db22

Comments on this thread:
Just because some other manufacturers are selling more cars, doesn't make them better cars it just makes them more "common". Some people pay a lot of money for exclusivity, we don't have to and personally, I prefer the exclusivity that the RL has.
If you put SH-AWD etc in a TL, it will still be a TL. I know a lot of people on this forum have TL's but the comparison between the TL and the RL is just this side of absurd. The M35 is a great car and to beat it you could use the RL. Put the TL against the M35 and you would never win that comparison.
Just because Infinity could not sell the Q45 does not mean it is a bad car - it was and still is way ahead of its time.
Add "Class" into the equation: MB, BMW, Jag have class (they may not be very good but they have Class. Infinity is a quality, high end Chrysler. Sells well with an "in you face design that will rarely have Class. The RL? Well you know as well as I do, they might not sell too many but it has a lot of attributes including exclusivity.

mrdeeno

Please explain how Infiniti is a high end Chrysler

SpicyMikey

Yea, not sure where that came from! Figured that would get your attention

jfprl

I am absolutely convinced that if the RL was sold in a Lexus or Infiniti showroom it would out sell the GS and M. People want a luxury environment when they buy a luxury car. Our local Honda dealer has a better showroom and service area than my Acura dealer. I miss the expresso and pastries of the Lexus dealer. A small thing but it makes you feel good about what you bought. I love my RL, but I like you guys, are car people. We can look past the "luxurt environment". Most people spending $50K+ need to be treated special, something Acura lacks.

mrdeeno

If I was spending $50k+, I would expect the product to be up to standard AND be treated like I was spending $50k+ with educated sales and service people in a neat and upscale environment. The Acura dealership closest to me provided none of that and the dealers were condescending and fanboi-ish (Saying things like, "The RL is better because it has SH-AWD...I don't know what makes SH-AWD better, but let me tell you IT IS!"). If I was spending $42-43k, I would be a little more lenient.

I think the RL would sell only slightly better in a Lexus or Infiniti dealership, but the product equation still wouldn't be there and would actually stick out as a "sore thumb" in a Lexus or Infiniti dealership...it's not focused on "plushness" enough to be a Lexus and it's too FWD-biased to be an Infiniti, and lacks too many engine/drivetrain/options choices for both.

The RL would have made a totally kick-ass "TL", but as a midsize-luxury competitor, it's missing many key ingredients.

neuronbob

I agree 100% with you on both comments. The late Q-ship was rather boring, much more so than the RL. The M45 was more exciting-looking in either generation (I liked the 1G M, "Gloria" as much as the 2G M, "Fuga".)

I also don't get how an Infiniti is like a Chrysler. I personally don't consider Chrysler to be a luxury car company or even a NEAR-luxury car company. Infiniti is clearly the latter, as is Acura.

g_vros77

Wow. That's pretty sad. Towards the end, it looks like they were selling double digit amounts or possibly less.

Rexorg

Going, going, . . . .!?

larrynimmo

you know we are all looking to see lots of RL's on the road as a validation that we all made the right decision to buy a popular high demand car.

What if you owned a Ferrari, or other exotic you would want to be the only one on the block (or city) that owns one. I live in a relatively affluent county and I have only seem 3 other RL's (light blue, gold & silver) I feel that I have a great unique car and with the pearl white I take great pride in saying that I have a "nice ak". Honestly I hope no one else in my area buys one.

SpicyMikey

yea, they're so rare I didn't recognize one when I saw it the other day. I was driving up the highway and closing on a car way up ahead. The back caught my eyes as being attractvie but I couldn't recognize it. Sort of looked like an MB-E but not quite. After about 5 seconds I realized it was an RL! True story. Am I an idiot or has anyone else ever done that?

By the way, at no point did I ever wonder "is that an Accord?" I still don't see the similarities.

TampaRLX-SH

Well 6 months ago I would see 2-3 RLs a month. Now I see 2-3 a day! It just does not add up with sales so soft.

The low sales number in no way affects my enjoyment of the RL or my decision to purchase one. I'd do it again.

And the regular compliments I recieve on the RL come people who have no idea how many sell. They simply appreciate the car. That only confirms to me if more people had exposure to the RL more would be selling.

AsianTL

If anyone thinks RL looks like a Honda Accord, he needs to have eyes exam.

mrdeeno

This has been discussed to death already...

The RL is conservative like the Accord is conservative, and also the proportions are similar because they are built on the same platform and also it was designed with "family resemblence" because it's sold as a Honda Legend in other markets.

With that said, there are people who don't "need their eyes checked" that will think the RL looks like an Accord, or an M35 looks like a Maxima, or a number of other cars that share "similar" shapes but different details.

VTEC Racer

Well as far as the MDX goes, it has $8,000 worth of option packages available. You can get a base one for $40,000 or a fully loaded one for almost $50,000. And by bare-bones, I guess I didn't really mean BARE BARE like MB or BMW style. I think Infiniti has the right idea with it's base models. The G35 for example starts from $31k but you can option it out with almost $10k worth of stuff. A base G35 is nicely equipped to begin with. So basically people can option the car out to whatever suits their needs or wants or still have a nice car for $31k. This IMO is how the RL should have been (just like the GS and M), a $40,000 car with about $10,000 of available option packages. Do you kinda get what I'm trying to drift at?

If it makes anyone feel better, Lexus only sold 81 GS430 and GS450h models this month COMBINED.

csmeance

I somewhat disagree, it makes buying a car much easier if you don't have thousand of options. Also it helps when purchasing used, so you can get something that you like easily. The RL should have additional features that should be accessories such as cooled seats and such that are easy to spot and don't confuse the buyer. What acura has done is give the car straight to you so there is no beating around the bush. What acura needs to do is have a Type S line on all its sedans/future coupe.

Qatar

I guess Acura can start by offering a version of the A-SPEC RL (the Red one with one piece body kit, 20 inch rims and quad exhaust) i think it looks upscale, with a little bump in horsepower to help sales till redesign
Can someone post the picture?

db22

You are correct, I did say it to get your attention but I do think that the Infinity line does follow the "in your face" mentality more than other more conservative brands such as the RL. I realize that "class" and "status symbol" are ugly words but nobody would consider the Infinity line as having either compared to the MB and the BMW. The RL is not in the same equation because not many people even consider it yet alone catagorize it, hence the reason for this thread.
It's the knowledgable and the enthusiasts that know about the RL so lets keep it that way - I don't want to drive the same car as everybody else. Slow sales is a good thing.

mrdeeno

Value from a lot of standard features and only a few minor options is so "near luxury". Potential customers willing to drop $50k on a car want choices whether to spend less than $50k, $50k, or more than $50k. Acura was trying to chase "mid-size luxury" customers with a "near-luxury" strategy.

I agree that a lot of standard features and little to no options make it easier to buy a new or used car, but REALITY clearly shows that this is not an important factor in the midsize-luxury segment, and REALITY shows that this strategy may even be harmful to sales. All the brands that are successful in this market segment offer major choices (options packages, drivetrain, engine), but the one brand (Acura) that offers no engine choices, no drivetrain choices, and very few options is suffering the MOST in this segment.