Howard 44

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking about the past couple weeks. I find this forum quite enjoyable and a good read (not as childish or fanatical as some in the clublexus forum). Not a put down. Just that many over there seem more interested in how the car looks then how the car drives.

I've been considering the purchase of either the RL (with Technology Package) or Lexus GS350 and must admit that as much as I like the RL over the GS, I have concerns that I hope some can address.

1. With only a handful of RLs selling monthly (about 500 or so), I'm concerned that parts will not be readily available whether in or out of warranty. I plan on owning the car for 7 years/80,000 miles. Does such thinking seem logical (or possible)?

2. For general maintenance (LOF, alignment), I would prefer using a trusted local mechanic that I've patronized for 20 years. Will he have difficulty getting an oil filter or air filter considering this is the only engine Acura uses in a car that sells so few per month (compared to the GS350)? I would assume that FRAM or another third party company may not make a filter for this engine considering it's a slow seller. I know the GS350 engine also is used in the IS350 and ES350. So I don't have such concern.

3. During the warranty period, do I have to go to the Acura dealer for the mandated maintenance service intervals when a code appears? In other words, can I have that 12,000 (or is it 15,000) mile service performed at my mechanic and will he be able to clear the code once the work is complete (or can the codes be cleared through instructions in the owner's manual)?

4. I asked the dealer this question but his answer was vague. Can I upgrade to the 18" rims without having to use run flat tires and if so, with the TMPS still work? Also, using the 18" rims the advertiser RonJon has, will they void the warranty (especially if I buy the car with the 17" rims)? And will the RonJon rims work with TMPS?

5. I'll be coming from driving a 2000 BMW. For the most part, the RL is front wheel drive. In every day and mild spirited driving, will I notice a significant difference with nearly 70% of the weight over the front wheels or will the SH-AWD minimize the front and rear weight difference? I drive on canyon roads and know the predictability of rear wheel drive. Will the RL disappoint with all that weight up front? I read somewhere that the car takes turns as if 'riding on rails'. But I think those are words more of emotion then reality.

6. What item seems to be the most problematic (whether mechanically or electrical)?

I have other questions but I don't want my first post to be 'all about my needs'. I must admit that I like the RL more then the GS350 but concerns such as parts availability (not necessarily mechanical reliability) and difficulty of having an independent mechanic work on the RL are swaying me to the Lexus. I know the depreciation with the RL will be greater. But I figure it all balances out as a comparably equipped GS350 costs $3,500 more out the door.

Thank you for reading this far. Any comments are appreciated.

RL06tech

Here we go:
1- the Rl is a Honda and many parts are shared by other models. Unlike european vehicles, honda has never had parts availability problems. From screws to tranny's parts take at most a day or 2 to arrive in the rare occasion they don't have them at hand.
2&3- You can have maintenance done where ever you desire. You only have to visit the dealer for warranty items. Things I cant do myself I take it to the Honda dealer. Again, all regular maintenance items are shared with all other Hondas, for example all Hondas use the same oil filter (except the s2000). Even the air filter which is more unique among cars, can be ordered overnight from your acura dealer if necessary.
4- TPMS is something you will have to square with your wheel seller, check tire rack.
5- The RL does not handle like a FWD nor a RWD vehicle. IMO it has the best characteristics of both. Once you master SHAWD all other drive systems will feel inferior. It does, however, take practice, just like in RWD. The biggest learning curve is knowing that in SHAWD you brake and downshift before the curve and then power through it. Once you get the hang of it you'll never want to drive anything else.
6- My 2006 has been utterly problem free. The 2005 did have some electrical gremlins but they seem to have been resolved. The only significantr mechanical issue that Honda has had in the last 20+ years were the 1999-2003 6cyl. automatic transmissions which did have a higher than avg rate of failure, otherwise hondas have the industry's top reliabilty scores year in and year out. Any car can be a lemon, of course, but with Hondas your chances of that are slim.

Hope this help you to join the "fold"

jftjr

I highly doubt it. It's not a small market manufacturer, and they sell plenty of Legends throughout the world.

The RL oil filter specs out on both Fram and Purolator as the same filter for the Accord V6. Which makes sense, because it's essentially the same engine, and there's no worries about supply there. Haven't checked air, but really, I'd doubt there's an issue.

You can do it yourself, or take it wherever, and clear the codes from the steering wheel MID buttons. Easy.

You just need to have the TPMS senders installed on the valve stems when you have the tires mounted. They're available from Tire Rack or the dealer, and they're not super expensive... something like $30 each I think.

Drive it and see, I think you'll be impressed. The car does, in fact, handle amazingly, and the SH-AWD makes a noticable handling difference. But again, put your butt in a seat and try it out.

And in the snow or wet, there's simply no comparison between a RWD BMW and the RL.


The '05 was somewhat buggy, but the 06's are basically trouble free. Problems are mostly on the order of squeaks and rattles.... mine's been perfect.
I don't think you'll have any problem having an independent mechanic work on the RL... and you can get an extended warranty for much less than the $3500 difference if you are really concerned about it.
I think your concerns about parts availability are unfounded (sounds like some salesman was working you over on that one...) and you're getting a heck of a lot more car for your money on the Acura side.

My

jftjr

Oh, and I think if you shop around, you'll find that the real "out the door" difference between a GS350 AWD with nav and camera, and an 07 Rl Tech, is probably more like $5000. The RL can be had at deep discount, depending on where you are, and that is certainly not the case with the Lexus.

SpicyMikey

Don't think I read anyone answer your specific concern about run flat tires. The answer is; No, you don't need to use run flat tires with the OEM 18" wheels. The two have nothing two do with each other. The PAX tires come with special 18" wheels that look like the stock wheels. However, the 18" OEM upgrade wheels you seen on the Acura website are not for PAX tires. The related question about TPMS I think was answered already

Touge

Hi Howard, welcome to AZ. If your getting a 07 w/ tech package it won't be coming with the pax rims/wheels. So you can upgrade to any size you want.

neuronbob

Just popping in to welcome you to AZ, Howard. The other guys have answered your questions and I really don't have anything significant to add other than that you have to try the SH-AWD to believe it. The handling in this heavy car is fantastic.

GoHawks

All the other guys have answered your question, but I wanted to add another point on parts availability.

My understanding is that parts are still available for the Acura Vigor. The last model year of that car was 2004 and it may have sold even less than the RL.

Aside from a replaced door handle, my '06 RL (18K miles) has been rock solid

Howard 44

Thanks everyone for your responses. For some clarification,

- Do I understand that most Acuras and Hondas (assuming six cylinders) share components (oil filter, air filter)? So getting parts (even a head gasket) should not be of great difficulty or expense .

- Even with SH-AWD, for those who have had their RL for some time, does the weight of the front end make the car drive heavy? And along that thought, does the wide turning radius (3 1/2 feet wider then the GS) make routine driving or parallel parking more cumbersome?

- As for maintenance codes, as I understand, they can be cleared by myself or an independent mechanic. They do not require a computer that only the dealer would have.

- I know the car can be purchased for about $42,000 (here in the L.A. area. A comparably equipped GS350 without Mark Levenson is $45,500). Has anyone purchased the extended Acura warranty and if so, at what cost? I assume it covers the electronics of the car (from sensors to the navigation system based on normal wear and tear). No matter what car I purchase, I have more concerns about the electronics then I do of mechanical reliability.

- Didn't see an answer to this (if anyone knows). Will adding 18" wheels (same size as available - 245/45/18) void any part of the warranty?

Thanks again. I value your comments. Test driving the car in a semi controlled environment (which I'll be doing Monday or Tuesday) is not the same as hearing from those who have put some miles behind the wheel.

VOdoc

Hi Howard,

No worries with parts, as it is true that Honda and Acura share plenty of them (as do Toyota and Lexus). Keep in mind that the RL/LEGEND is the Acura flagship so they will not leave you hanging. If you are a do-it-yourselfer, there are online vendors such as H and A Accessories that will sell you commonly needed parts or add-ons.

The RL initially drives slightly "heavy" for those used to something smaller until you get a few hundred miles under your belt and learn to push it. Then, as one of our members commented some time ago, the car begins to "feel smaller" as you learn to drive it harder. I drove a sweet little TL for almost 3 years and needed only a few days to get fully acclimated to the vastly superior RL driving dynamics. The turning radius has not been an issue. Parallel parking is a snap due to the side mirror tilt, even without the backup camera that now comes standard on 2007 models.

Maintenance codes are not an issue. I use the dealer because I don't trust any of the local indy shops.

The price of the 2007 tech should be around $42K as you say. The $3500 incentive makes that possible. I find it amazing that Toyota/Lexus would sell their cars without the signature sound system at any price! Acuras come with everything. I did purchase an extended warranty online from Ray Laks Acura for $1070 to cover 6 years/100K miles. The stock warranty is 4 years/50K bumper to bumper, plus 6 years/70K drivetrain. I plan to keep the car a long time and wanted to have zero worries about the electronics.

Adding 18" wheels, to my knowledge, has nothing to do with the warranties. I love the look of the Acura A-spec wheels but do not have that option as my car is CMBS/PAX. Those RonJon Legend wheels look very sweet as well.

In closing, I chose the RL for its value, performance, safety, technology, good looks and comfort. I never once considered Lexus even though a close friend is a highly placed executive at Toyota. To me, Lexus is both overpriced and underperforming.

Good luck with your decision, and I'd suggest you definitely drive the RL more than once as its charms are subtle.

lland

I believe manufacfturers are required to make parts available for something like 20 years after production of a model ceases. Doesn't mean they'll be cheap, but there should be no part worries for some time.

LL

neuronbob

Correct.

This car does not drive heavy. Because of the dynamics of SH-AWD, as I stated above, you don't notice the bulk of the car, especially in the twisties.

Correct. In fact, the instructions to clear the codes are in the owner's manual.

I've read of people here from LA who've gotten the RL/tech (in 2007, this means no CMBS or PAX, just navi etc.) for less than $42k, I'm sure they will chime in.

DO NOT buy your extended warranty at the dealer. I do recommend it if you're keeping the car a long time as the navi would be pretty expensive to replace. Buy it at a dealer only if they are willing to pricematch with online. Otherwise, just buy the warranty online, many of us have saved lots of money doing so.

No. In fact, Acura makes a very nice wheel for the RL in that size.

GoHawks

My dealer first quoted me $3,300 on a 7yr/100K mile warranty. I negotiated it down to $1,700, and then I found out I could buy it for around $1,100 from HondaAcuraworld. Dealer ended up matching that price.

I don't believe anyone answered your question on coverage. If you buy the AcuraCare warranty, it covers everything except thigs like seat wear, which is covered on the original factory warranty. Electronics and all.

Howard 44

Hello everyone. Here is an update from my original post about a week ago.

Last week I took both the RL and the GS350 for an extensive test drive. To summarize what I didn't like about the cars (since we all know both cars have much more to like then dislike):

- The RL's steering is too wide. It's easy to turn but the radius is noticeably larger then my current car and the Lexus GS350.

- The low end performance is weak. Torque doesn't come on until higher engine speeds. It seems like the revs need to get to 4,500 before you feel any muscle. In fact (and I think this applies to all Hondas/Acuras), their engines are designed to rev high. Not something I'm happy about (or accustomed to) as more wear and tear occurs.

- The RL needs 18" rims as standard equipment.

-Why can't Honda have the same push button ignition as Lexus (or Infiniti, Cadillac or Nissan). Makes for a better presentation.

As for the GS350, In lighter colors the car looks deformed. The blame is in the C pillar.

- The Nav can not be modified while driving. Not that big of a deal for me, but having that option taken away is wrong.

- The front end of the car isn't nearly as nice as the RL.

- The area near the Nav system looks incomplete. I prefer the cockpit feeling the RL has. And that stow-away drawer to the left of the steering wheel is foolish

- Trunk space seems smaller then it actually is compared to the RL.

- The Lexus floats. The RL floats with feedback. I like feedback.

There are other items to mention, but when it all comes down to making a decision, I'm still undecided. If I factor cost of ownership, I can't deny the GS350 is more attractive. In addition, I am still concerned that mechanically (and aesthetically), it would be more difficult and costly to make an RL repair (as I mentioned previously and as was answered by others).

All in all, both cars are gems. Taking away aesthetics, I find more security (most mechanically and on resale value) with the Lexus. But with the RL $2,000 less expensive when purchasing a 7/yr-80K warranty, I still am undecided.

This truly does stink. I make significant business decisions daily but I'm losing my hair in choosing which combination of sheet metal and muscle I'd rather drive.

GoHawks

I really wouldn't be that concerned about wear due to high revving. I'm reminded of an early review of the S2000 (either C&D or MT), where they described the almost unthinkable revving that was needed to extract the maximum torgue from that little engine. In parenthesis the writer wrote, "Don't worry Honda engineers know what they're doing".

Honda is known for some of the most reliable engines in the market. That's where they truly shine.

Now if you don't like revving the engine that high, that's another story and one I can't really fault you on, but I wouldn't worry about the wear on the engine as long as it's properly maintained.

lland

I wouldn't worry about high revving either. Honda is pretty good at designing high revving engines. In addition to the S2000, they produce racing engines that I believe run at something like 12,000 RPM. They've also made a motorcycle engine or two.

LL

synth19

Actually, when you purchase a 6 year warranty at the time of purchase, it is not added to the existing factory warranty. Meaning, if you purchase a car and it already has a 4 year warranty, a 6- year warranty only adds 2 years...Or 70k miles (whatever comes first). I would rather wait until the factory warranty is close to expiring, and then add another warranty. Maybe you know this, but just wanted to clarify the warranty since you said "The stock warranty is 4 years/50K bumper to bumper, plus 6 years/70K drivetrain." To me, this sounds like you're really getting 10 years, when really it's just 6 years total (4 years + 2).

synth19

Being able to modify Nav while driving is VERY important to me. I have navi in another car which doesn't allow me to modify or make a setting while I drive. I know it's a safety feature, but what if my passenger wants to make the modification? It totally sux when I'm driving somewhere and I want to get directions to a place on the whim in this car...or if I realize I'm lost. I have to stop and then submit the address.

synth19

Bang for the buck.... RL>GS.

SpicyMikey

Regardless of which way it works I never found them of value unless I really felt I wouldn't be able to afford a repair if it was necessary. Calling them "warranties" is inaccurate. A Warranty is a guarantee that comes with the purchase of a product. It's an indication of how confident the manufacturer is about their product and how long they believe it will work without issues. Extended "Warranties" are just insurance policies. As in any insurance policy, your betting something will go wrong and the insurer betting it won't. It's all based on statistics and probability and -- like gambling at a casino -- the odds are not in your favor. Sometimes you win, but usually you loose.

jftjr

All warranties are insurance policies, and all warranties are "gambling" -- an extended warranty just means you're doing the gambling, not the manufacturer. And the initial warranty is factored into the cost of the vehicle, anyway -- just because it's not broken out as a line item on the invoice does not mean you're not paying for it directly....

There's several other cost issues involved. Yes, an extended warranty can cost you more than the repairs, ultimately. However, there's two other factors -- (1) peace of mind, which to some people is worth another $1200 (even if it isn't to you) and (2) the ultimate cost of any repair on a highly complex vehicle like the RL may easily exceed any cost of a warranty.

Repairs are much cheaper when they're paid for in advance. Any electronics issue (Nav system? Yeah, that's 2K easy...) or drivetrain trouble (SH-AWD? 3-5K....) come immediately to mind as potential trouble spots which would blow any warranty cost out of the water.

So, you're playing a numbers game, sure, but whether it's "worth it" is not a simple calculus. Yes, if there's never a problem, it isn't "worth it" -- but if there's *any* significant problem, it absolutely will be.

noobie

Yes the RL does have a large turning radius, which entail more care in tight quarters, a little less convenient.

I prefer a bit more low end torque as I believe most do. The flipside is that acceleration at passing speeds is very good.

The 17" stock rims are about the most boring I have seen on a luxury sedan. Note the GS comes with stock 17s as well.

Agree about the push button start. It looks like an aferthought in the RL.

Yes not modifying Nav is a major pain. At a minimum the passenger should be able to do it.

I actually prefer the looks of the GS to the RL

Although I think the overall fit and finish of the GS is slightly above the RL, the GS dash looks cheap with the plastic around the nav screen. The RL has one of my favorite dashes.

Trunk is small on GS. Driver headroom is tight and footwell has the AWD hump in it. Back seat in GS is only for 2.

I think the GS is quieter overall and perhaps floatier. Neither car give the feedback of a 5 series or M for that matter.


My feeling is the GS will retain resale slightly better or residual value, but only as a percentage of MRSP. With the incentive on the RL, they may be a wash in absolute terms. However a private sale will most likely be easier with the GS given greater popularity. Routine maintence may cost more on the GS, but the overall dealer experience from Lexus is much better than Acura.

The way I compare these is that a comparably equipped GS is about 6 or 7 grand more. I need to change the rims on the RL, so the gap shrinks to about 3 or 4 grand. At that price it's a wash for me. As for not being able to decide and getting brain freeze, I feel your pain. I was ready to buy the RL last month until a bad dealer experience soured my wife on the car. So I have basically decided to wait until 08s come out since we are so close now. I drive very low miles so having a MY newer is important for resale. I won't finally decide till the week I buy one.

Oh and I share your view of this forum. It's quite different from the others. People here are intelligent and articulate, much like their RLs

neuronbob

I bought an extended warranty because if after 50k miles the navi fails.....$$$$$$$ more than the warranty. This car has so many fancy electronic pieces that if you plan on keeping it for a long time, one of them is likely to be problematic. I feel great paying for the peace of mind that goes along with an extended warranty.

As far as low-end torque....once you've driven the RL long enough, your acceleration style will adapt. I've owned many Honda products and all the engines are the same in this respect. I think it comes from Honda starting off as a motorcycle company, myself. BTW, the J35 engine is bulletproof. I've never heard of any problems with either this engine or the related J32 used in the TL. Honda indeed knows what it's doing in this regard.

I agree with you that the turning radius is WAY too much, that there need to be 18s stock, and I wonder why we don't have a true push-button start...though I'm not too worried about this last one. Excellent critique!

SpicyMikey

Yep, not saying its good or bad. Only saying the only value for it is if you are concerned about being unable to handle the cost of a costly repair.

I've only taken an extended warranty once or twice in my life. Both times it was when I was concerned about being able to afford the repairs -- so I took out the "insurance". Not saying it's a stupid idea, just stating that facts. Fact is, if you took an extended warranty on everything, everytime, you will financially loose -- statistically speaking.

GoHawks

I think I mentioned it here before, but since we're on the topic I'll mention it again.

I bought an extended warranty for my Toyota Land Cruiser for $1,400.

Since then the touch screen on the dash went bad. It wasn't the Nav that actually went bad, but the screen (or at least the electronics that control the screen). As a result, no nav, no audio, no climate control.

The part alone cost $5,000.

Headunit needed to be replaced due to a BT issue. $700

Backup camera just dies a couple months ago. That would have been close to $800 according to the dealer.

I made money on the deal and I still have about 35K to go on the warranty.

The door handles on the RL alone are over $400, and with the occasional reported issues we've seen with those, I know I can have Acura replace them as much as I want until the warranty expires. Not sure I would otherwise.

SH-AWD, Nav, and all of the other electronics on this car, make a $1,000 extended warranty (or insurance policy) a no-brainer in my book.

NavyDoc333

My 2 cents...

I really liked the GS too. I owed a 1st gen GS for 8yrs.... and loved it. But to be honest, one of the things I loved most about it was the Nakamichi sound system. I used to love driving it just to listen to music in it. Having said that... the Bose system in the RL beats the hell out of the std GS stereo. I did like the Mark Levinson system in the GS... and wouldn't have considered buying one without it. When I was comparing the two cars... I always added the ML sound to the GS, and that always made a bigger price gap. Made it a no-brainer. When I priced a GS with adaptive headlights, AWD, ML w/Nav...etc to make it comperable. The price diff was more like 5-8K (and Lexus wasn't dealing... but this was in 06 when they first came out... so they may be dealing now). The extra HP of the GS350 and upgraded Nav graphics make it more attractive. Tough call. If you want to make it more even.. maybe look for a GS 12mo lease return... take an easy 10-20% off the price of a new... but they're hard to find with Nav and AWD

NavyDoc333

You know.. come to think of it.... I probably loved my old GS so much because I was trading up from a 1991 Jetta. I can can think of some bicycles I would have been happier with.

Howard 44

Life is about comprises.

After reading my last post, I re-arranged some priorities along with addressing my main concerns.

- I will lease and not buy for a variety of reasons. Some are:
..... 1. Why put $20,000 down on an item that immediately depreciates. It takes
about 6-7 years to break even paying a lease vs ownership. During that
time, the cars value will plummet, its electronics will (probably) be in need
of expensive repairs and with today's advancements in technology, the car
will be outdated and not desirable in the used car market (cars in this class
over 6 years or 70,000 miles drop further in desire and value).
..... 2. I can use the business expense.
..... 3. Mechanically, cars are reliable. Electronically, I have strong concerns (hence
why I would get an extended warranty for ANY car I would buy). I have had
a couple electronic issues with a Buick and Toyota where the labor to
troubleshoot cost a couple day's pay but the part was $20.00. Add in the
inconvenience (including renting a car for a couple days) and frustration.

The turning radius is an issue for me. The RL's radius (with 17" wheels) is about 4 feet larger then the GS350 (with 18" wheels). I parallel parked each car twice under different circumstances and you can feel the difference. Same goes with conducting a three point turn.

I'm sure I can adjust to the weak low end torque. But I'm more concerned of evasive/emergency maneuvers driving in the city then I am gaining speed on the highway already doing 40 MPH. I need 'get up and go' more then 'up and running'. If you've ever driven the two cars back to back, you know what I mean. The RL is adequate. The GS is responsive. I also do not need SH-AWD. It's clever engineering along with savvy marketing (if Acura knew how to market). But its also one more complex piece of engineering that can go wrong. Not an issue when leasing but it is a cost factor in routine maintenance. But even more important, we do not get too much rain or snow in Southern California to see SH-AWD as an added safety measure.

Some of the above is a bit of a rant along with legitimate concerns. Both cars have their issues but as I said, life is about compromises. I'm leaning more towards the Lexus as I compromise much less with the GS350 then I do with an RL.

TampaRLX-SH

Hey Doc. My sis recently traded out of her 06 GS for an 07RL, and she was a deadfast Lexus owner. Unfortunaely the GS was in the shop for rattles like you could not imagine Lexus could ever let out the door. It made my TL seem like a vault. Then the tranny started slipping and slamming. She has no regrets trading the GS for the RL. But even with all it's issues, I admit Lexus Service did a very good job trying to exorcise that poor GS.

If she had kept it, I would have shipped it to you for one of your de-rattling surgical procedures! I have to ask...you do keep a stethescope just for the car?

NavyDoc333

I have 2 in my car... because I always seem to leave one at either the hospital or the clinic. And "Yes"... I have used it to try to diagnose rattles. Unsuccesfully I might add.

GoHawks

SH-AWD and VSA are going to save your bacon much more than the turning radius in an emergency situation. You're not going to have to make that shapr of a turn in an emergency maneuver.

Did you test the voice recognition in the Lexus and then in the RL? When I was buying, the nav/VR in the GS was identical to the the system in my Land Cruiser. IDENTICAL.

I had given up on VR as I thought it was a gimmick. It never understood my commands, you couldn't program a destination using VR, and the BT was pretty limited. YOu couldn't voice dial.

Like I said, I really had chalked it up to a gimmick, and never really tested it out in the RL. I can't tell you how pleased I was when I found out how usable the technology is in the RL. It was like I got an added bonus when I bought the car.

When I was shopping, I seriously looked at the GS. I loved the exterior styling (still do). More so than the RL at the time. The interior was typical Lexus, top notch. For the heck of it, I decided to go look at the RL again.

Funny thing is that I had an '01 TL, and I never really noticed the RL in all the times I went in for service.

When I sat in the RL, my family and I were just hooked. We loved the interior layout, and at the time the RL was quicker than the GS (GS300 AWD), and the RL has a much more sophisticated AWD system.

Over time I have grown to appreciate the subtle byt muscular stance of the RL. I see at least three or four a day and I just really admire it. It is a handsome car.

On top of that, the service I get from my dealership rivals many Lexus dealers. I haven't looked back one bit. I love my car more now than the day I bought it.

gdevine

Check Edmunds.com, the RL's true cost to own is the least of any luxury car. Based on maintenance, insurance, depreciation and original cost. Maintenance cost on this car are very low, and insurance rates are low as well, probably because of its safety record 5 stars for everything

gavine

This video will help you make your decision (or at least it should) ->

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...analysis&hl=en

neuronbob

I had forgotten about that video, thanks for the link. A lot of thought obviously went into the engineering of the underbody of our cars.

If only that much thought had gone into the marketing..... hmmmmm......

noobie

I called State Farm and got quotes for the RL, GS350 AWD, M35x and S80 V8. All were within 10 to 20 dollars and a non-factor in any purchase decision.

Howard 44

I saw that video and it is scripted. The presenter had nothing but glowing things to say about the RL. He must have been compensated for his bias reporting.

The Lexus ES350 has a similar video (lasts about 20 minutes) but is much more polished. Both are good marketing tools.

Howard 44

As we all know, insurance rates depend on geography (and zip code). Not that the cost of insurance would be a deciding factor, but when I priced both cars with 21ST Century Insurance, the RL was $180.00 more per year (I should say about $15 more per month. It sounds more reasonable). With a flawless driving record, this bargain would cost me $2,350.00 per year here in Los Angeles.

GoHawks

I don't understand your point? Do you feel anything he said wasn't accurate?

Howard 44

I'm not a gear head but I have no reason not to believe what he was saying. I am just pointing out that the piece was professionally produced and the 'host' was probably compensated.

VOdoc

With a similar driving record, I pay just under a thousand a year in Los Angeles for my '06 RL with a different insurance company. And no, it isn't Mercury . Time for some comparison shopping?

BTW, like you, I saw little role for SH-AWD in SoCal. After 6 months of ownership and a number of close calls with fellow denizens of the freeway, I am totally sold on SH-AWD. For evasive maneuvering, it has no peer.