lindros2

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/27/f...genesis-sedan/

As others have stated, < $40k for a V-8, rear-drive sedan with non-polarizing looks is going to be tough to beat. Even if it is a Hyundai.

xenonhid

Holy crap, that car is hot.

I like the exterior design, the interior, and everything else.


How come Hyundai can get it right but Acura/Honda can't?????

neuronbob

The mileage on the V8 model is 17/25. That's the same as an RL. I'm sure Acura is at least a little nervous about this.

Then again, Honda/Acura are so concerned with gas mileage in their fleet that they probably don't care.

///M Roadster

Did I miss-read it? Acura brand was not mentioned at all in that article, when all other luxury brands were brought up.

Pretty sad, if you ask me...it tells where acura stands as a brand.

SpicyMikey

Why are you surprised? Acura is very often "forgotten" by writers when they are rattling off the lux brands in an article. That doesn't mean the product can't stand up against those other mentioned brands. It's a perception thing. Honda has been terrible with playing that part of the game, thus, you don't buy an Acura to have your ego stroked.

Chas2

Yes, Honda/Acura have to be VERY nervous about this car, not just looking over their shoulder, but looking straight ahead saying "...a Hyundai just passed me by?!!"

123456SPEED

The coupe version, which has gotten less press, is pretty decent too.
RWD, DOHC 4 cyl turbo or a V6 w/ 310hp. 6 speed manual.

lumpulus

Wow is that coupe UGLY...that rear quarter window looks like a black eye.

As to the Genesis, you couldn't pay me to buy any Hyundai, least of all one that cost $40k.

I'd get a loaded Accord or Lexus, or even an Infiniti before I bought that. It looks so, "Generic"

They will gain no sales from people that already buy MB's and BMWs, because the Genesis at the end of the day, is still a, GASP, Hyundai to them.

If you are looking to save money just for the sake of saving money, you shouldn't be driving a luxury car.

Lastly, no AWD, something every high end car will have in ten years or so.

lland

Sad, considering that Acura was the first Japanese "spinoff" luxury brand.

LL

DoctorTuna

I would have to agree with the general consensus that Acura should be worried somewhat about this vehicle, not necessarily the Hyundai brand. Ultimately, I believe Acura is one of the best kept automotive secrets out there, luxury, engineering, performance, and safety for a competitive price. One of the reasons I continue to purchase Acura is the competitive price, notwithstanding the other attributes listed. That being said, if being price conscious is at the top of the list, then those buyers will consider the Genesis for the content offered at the price and for the things that you aren't getting with Acura(RWD,V8). Obviously, for those who buy MB and BMW for image predominantly, Hyundai will probably never be on their radar, then again, Acura probably wouldn't be either.

Ibn Rushd

Acura has more of a chance appearing on the radar then Hyundai though.

I have friends who all own BMW's, which are there's and not mommy and daddy's, but the only reason any of them now know about Acura is because of me.

A couple have Benzes one or two has Lexus, and the rest are all BMW people, so for me to show up with the Acura was unheard of, until they not only saw it was a pretty decent car...they tried to outrun me in country roads...and they couldn't.

After that they never considered Acura inferior, but it still took me to show it to them for them to even notice.

More people will accept buying an Acura before they accept buying a Hyundai...and if Honda can do what Infiniti did, the Acura brand would live on. Acura does make for a good second car...next to a high end BMW.

The problem is, maybe Honda is liking it that way.

static808

Edmunds had a full report on the Genesis. It will be about $45k for the V8 model. As far as our beloved RL or whatever they call the new 2010 model, Acura is probably following this closely.

Can't see lexus sales getting hit. The LS is premium and the GS still gets some decent sales.

The Infiniti and Acura's might get hit...but with only 500 RL's or so cars being sold monthly and another 1500 M35x's, how much more can the Genesis squeeze out.

Its not like there's thousands of people sitting on the sidelines waiting for the Genesis or a car like a BMW/Merc/Lexus for $40K.

I think with the movement of the TL to fit the current RL in size and the RL moving to the LS premium class, Acura should be fine.

If the TL is a knock out in technology, look and feel and stays under $40K, who's going to buy a Genesis when they can get a Acura TL? Then again, who's going to buy a Genesis when they are shopping for a Mercedes, BMW or Lexus...

Big gamble by Hyundai but in the end, you can't squeeze anymore juice out of the mid-lux market with a new Jaguar, redesigned 5, E, TL coming down the road......

And I can't even think of comparing this car (Genesis) to a S, 7 or LS class car. Its not worth the time and effort to write a paragraph.

Mike_TX

I like the heck out of the front-end. And I'll bet most people will think it's a BMW of some kind when they see it on the street ... the tail lights look a little like 3-series lights.

And Autoblog is saying the V-8 will come in under $40k.

I wonder who ended up supplying Hyundai's navigation system?

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plastikman

I swore to myself when I lived in Korea, I would never ever ever own a Hyundai, Kia or Daewoo, but I will admit that the Genesis is a very nice looking car. I might have to actually go have a look at it, who will be the first of us to actually go check it out ? ? ?

dwest1023

I am sure it will be me. I am looking forward to a test drive in the Genesis as well as the new 09 Nissan Maxima.

///M Roadster

acura is best kept automotive secret? i would say, hyundai azera fits that bill a lot better. that car actually does drive very nicely, nice design inside and out, and priced very aggresively as well...but not many people noticed it.

but hyundai seems to be taking a higher route in advertising their new high end car, genesis. and i think genesis will do well against competition. last time i checked, genesis will have higher price tag than honda legend in korea. keep in mind that honda legend price has about 40% tax in it...

but in the us. genesis will carry less msrp than RLs, because of hyundai brand name. i do not think it means genesis is less of a car. i would have never considered buying a hyundai...but with azera and genesis, i think they are coming up to speed very quickly.

putting love for acura or whatnot aside, genesis will most likely do just about everything better than what RL could do with about 10k cheaper MSRP. many people here say they buy acura because they are cost conscious and not a brand monkey. well...? if genesis can do just about everything better with cheaper price, better warranty...how can we blindly say RL is a better buy?

SpicyMikey

All this gushing going on over this Genesis.

I'm still from Missouri on this one. They'll have to show me before I can join in on this lovefest.

The released prices yesterday were higher than rumored. I suspect the product will be less than envisioned as well. Plus, remember it's still a Hyundai. Not trying to sound snobby, but I suspect this thing will depreciate like a rock. Consider that into the TCO before buying. Maybe a lease would be an option for those daring soles who want to participate in this experiment. For me, I think I'll stay on the sidelines for now.

Ibn Rushd

Just remember though guys, Acura and Honda used to be in Hyundai's position before too!

Before i was even born, some of you may remember that if you were driving a "honda" it wasn't all that, and even with the introduction of Acura it was more or less "yeah okay...next" kind of deal..it took a while but eventually Honda made it to the top.

Who's to say Hyundai isn't the next Acura? Or even one up it...who's to say Hyundai won't be the next Lexus?

123456SPEED

I think pricing, which has been important to a lot of buyers, will become even moreso with the economy, layoffs, mortgage problems etc. and now with gas adding a lot more cost to car owning. I say hurray for competition.

this seems a lot like GM/Ford response when Honda/Toyota started importing their 'little cars', andthe domestics were arrogant and very slow to react. I hope Honda/Toyota re quicker.

Hyundai may not see as much success because the market is much more saturated now but fill a need and you'll sell well.

...
but I read a lot of newer car buyers are dumping their high payment cars and trading in for cheaper used ones now.

4bearhug

I think the Genesis will definitely find a market with the value shopper. Lots of content, decent performance, decent fuel economy, and great styling for a lower price than the competition. That sounds just like the old Acura playbook. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Genesis as a threat to RL and TL sales.

lindros2

Price announced yesterday - starting at $33k for V-6:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/28/h...-start-at-33k/

V-8 starting at $38k.

I'm going to disagree with you here. I owned a 2004 TL (produced Sept 2003, delivered Oct 10, 2003), and it was a total piece of sh-t. Interior pieces were crap, tires were crap, bumper paint didn't match car, and on and on.

I drove a 2008 TL loaner, and it was basically still the same piece of crap. New steering wheel and some interior bits, but was still crap.

If the Hyundai Genesis lives up to the early reviews, Acura is in real trouble.

DoctorTuna

C'mon now! How many threads have been posted on this website about the utter abscence of marketing for Acura?? It's a secret for a reason, this just isn't opinion. Despite that, having sampled plenty of other luxury brands, the Acura brand offers a quality vehicle, that's well equipped, for far less than the luxury competition, considering I paid $43K for mine. When I price out E class or 5 series with similar equipment and attributes the price skyrockets!! In regards to the Azera, I have not driven it, but I have seen it. I've never compared content so it would be a difficult comparison for me. Maybe it's an automotive secret too, but not within the luxury segment.

static808

Edmunds had the following statement. No big deal about the few thousand dollar difference anyway.
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Our estimate for the base price of a 2009 Hyundai Genesis V8 is $40,000-$45,000, or $7,000 less than a Lexus GS 460 and a whopping $15,000 less than a base Mercedes-Benz E550.
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My wife had a 2004 TL, Feb 2004 delivery. Nice car up until the end of 2007. Lots of rattles, we traded for a 2008 MDX. Overall, nice car for the money and you are right that over the years the loaners I would get never really got rid of those initial rattles.

I am thinking that Acura will do a better job on the rattles and overall look-n-feel of the new Acura TL....Hyundai won't have a flawless initial car,...not even hand-built Ferrari's are error free.

foam4me

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Hyundai just continues to move upmarket with us aging boomers; however I haven't detected Accord and Camry buyers flocking to the Sonata, even after several iterations.
As far as Acura marketing goes one is either happy with the car they own or not. New products may have an impact on resale value if the brand is perceived to be valuable but I try not to get ahead of myself.

///M Roadster

I beg to differ.
I love my RL and it has exceeded my expectation by far.

But in my opinion, RL is cheaper than 530xi for a good reason (much more so with 535xi). RL has adaquet low end power but its throttle response just isn't comparable to 530xi (which has less hp by the way). RL has competent stock suspension for most daily driving conditions. But it just does not communicate with the driver through its steering wheel the way BMW 530xi does. RL has strong brakes but it just doesn't inspire the kind of confidence that 530xi offers in its prowless braking. Are all these differences worth the kind of $ difference? Not to me which is why I happily drive my RL.

I can't speak for MB because I've never been a fan of MB and I think the cost of MB cars do not justify what those cars have to offer.

Question is...if future Genesis owners will think RL as their BMW alternative or MB alternative.

Oh...and I won't be going Genesis route any time soon. I think Hyundai has come a long way, but it just doesn't shine on my radar.

DoctorTuna

Good points. But I think some may fall under preference. I have recently test driven BMW offerings, I had the 535xi for ~ 3hrs and for me I really did prefer the RL on all counts. The price differential is more icing on the cake and therefore the lack of justification for a premium price is absolute. It wasn't an issue of price over performance for me.

As stated previously, the lack of marketing places a vehicle like the RL in a silhouette of the other luxury brands. Because of this fact, Genesis owners will probably not aspire the RL as their BMW/MB alternative. What the Genesis will do I think is keep loyal Hyundai fans in their court and for the price concsious Acura customer who wants V8/rwd, we might actually see some converts.

lindros2

I really wanted to "like" the current-gen (E60?) 5-series. I've always been a BMW "fan," but never owned one (well actually my father had a 320i company car, but that's another story).

I just can't get past iDrive, the general interior layout, some weird items (i.e. direction signals), and finally, the price ($70k for a 550i?!?! Are you kidding me?)

So back to the original topic - if the Genesis V8 is $38k, it will be tough to justify a $55k RL, much less a $65k 550i, for many people.

Zipho

I think hyundai is ass backwards. they're trying to raise their established econo-brand to luxury status in a "brand obsessed" market.

they should have followed the japanesse route and started a new luxo brand (the name Kia doesn't have that luxo sound though), although it would be almost impossible to hide behind a new badge these days. when Acura started they didn't have to worry about people knowing they were honda, without the internet they were able to keep the honda ownership a secret for a few years.

as far as this genesis is concerned, I would think you have to sit in it and get a feel for the fit and finish. and drive it to see if it is worthy of a luxo description.

123456SPEED

spoiler alert - shhh, it's a secret.?!?!
are you serious? I must be misreading something.

SpicyMikey

+1

Always liked BMW. Their priorities with a car align well with mine. Their latest styling tweeks for the 3,5, and 7 are not so good but I still generally like their look.

Just can never get passed the lack of value. Always walk into a BMW dealer when it's time for a new car. Even do some negotiating. To date, I have always walked out empty handed. To buy a BMW (or worse an MB), you really need to see value in the brand name itself. Pound for pound they are not a smart purchase decision.

Jackzilla

Amen to that!

What you're paying the premium for is the "prestige" of a marque that proclaims you've got the bucks and like to flaunt them to the whole world -- nothing more.
Just like a Rolex watch -- archaic mechanical movement for big bucks, that probably isn't even remotely as accurate, long term, as a quartz Seiko or Citizen.

lpe387tt

I couldn't have put it any better. Absolute Ditto

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

honestly guys, a hyundai WILL be a direct competitor in a decade or two.

everyone says that they won't buy one, maybe not this generation or mine, but the next yes. it happened with toyota when they first started selling cars here as well as honda and any "new" car company. as you can see hyundai has come a long way from copying designs to making their own. and its a sad thing people are not open to it.

me, i don't like hyundai, but gotta give them credit, they're very aggressive with their business plan and i think they're succeeding obviously.

acura needs to rethink their plan, i believe they can achieve fuel economy by offering a hybrid of certain vehicles as well as having hi-powered cars such as their higher competitors. they need to start looking to compete with higher-end cars such as MB, BMW, Lexus, etc to gain their market. and its not that simple but, rwd/awd, better styling, more power, more packages.

in the end hyundai is moving up in reputation, but what about acura? honest the rsx? the new grill (i think its okay, but they can do better), no rwd....

lumpulus

RSX? Don't you mean something else?

jftjr

My understanding is, it's sourced from LG Electronics, who also supplies their current navi systems.

LG's a great company, so I am hopeful for a good system.

My main concern with this car is that it'll ride like a Buick. Hyundai is not known for well-damped suspensions.

However, if it is at all controlled, this car will be a giant slayer. I'm looking forward to test driving one next month since it's my leading contender for replacing the RL when my lease is up in February.

And as much as I adore my RL, there's no way in hell I'm buying an '09, because it's two-bag coyote ugly.

JAB00

It's a risky venture for Hyundai. The mid-size luxury market is pretty saturated already between the GS, M, BMW, MB, Acura, and Audi. Jaguar is trying to tap into this market after their disastrous last few years. Nobody who cross shops for the Germans will seriously consider the Genesis. Acura may not be a star but it definitely ranks highly in peoples minds. Honda has a pedigree that it has cultivated over the past 20yrs. Even if people say that the TL or RL is just a glorified Accord, that's one hell of a compliment.

For 33K for the V6 Genesis, why would someone pick that over a comparably priced TL, G, or BMW? For the 38K Genesis, people would rather stretch a couple of thousand for an IS350, 330, and the like.

Most shoppers who are interested in the Genesis will be those coming from the down market; Avalon, Maxima, Chrysler 300, Pontiac. Those people are more value conscious and want more bang for their buck. However for a V6 Genesis costing 33K, why would they get that over a TL which is comparably priced and offers just as many features? If the Genesis V6 cost sub $30K (28K) then it may steal more of these shoppers.

My prediction is that it will go out the way the VW Phaeton did. Hyundai needs to build more of a pedigree before it's a serious threat to the Luxury market. The Azera and Sonata still don't seriously challenge the Accord or the Camry despite the car quickly catching up to the competition in terms of reliability.

lindros2

1. There are people today - especially with the state of the economy and the "tight" lending situation - that can't "scratch out" any more than they have. Which bodes well for Hyundai as people might be cross-shopping a less luxurious, less powerful, and more problem-prone VW Passat or "less prestigious" (their view of course) Honda Accord.

2. I don't see the Genesis going the way of the Phaeton. You're comparing a car which is a couple of grand more than the rest of the Hyundai lineup with a $65k-100k+ (in W12 guise) car that was waaaay above the others in a Volkswagen showroom. VW itself knew about the problem as it planned to release a "Passat Plus" to fill that gap, but never did. The factory, the vents, and the car in general were (and still are) over the top. The Genesis is just a small step up from the Azera, which (I have to admit) I've been impressed with when I rented it in Florida and Virginia. And remember, I'm a hater of most things Korean (spam email, Kia Amanti, and asshole golfers at the top of that list)...

Mike_TX

I looked at the Hyundai Santa Fe last year for my mother-in-law, before they had released their first Nav systems. At the time, the dealer didn't know who would be manufacturing it for them.

I note that Motor Trend is griping about the one in their long-term Veracruz being slow to boot up, but that's all I've heard. If LG is making it, I wonder whose mapset they're using. The whole thing hinges on the maps and POI's, since almost anyone can source a good processor, chipset and hard drive these days.

And Autoblog did a test drive and said the car handled beautifully. They drove the V-8 version at 140mph on the test track and said it was solid as a rock. And it didn't display any weird handling, either, They were VERY impressed.

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Mike_TX

I'm not sure you guys have seen this:

Autoblog road test of Genesis

It has about a hundred pictures of the Genesis inside and out, as well as driving impressions.

If it's been posted, I apologize for the duplication.

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Chas2

I have been saying all along that Acura, in particular, needs to look out. Hyundai is doing what the Japanese did in the United States years ago, except, that Hyundai is doing it at dizzying speeds, about half the time the Japanese did. It has only been about 21 years since Hyundai first marketed that POS Excel, which was anything but.

Genesis appears to be impressive, especially at the price point.