frebay

Thought you guys might be interested in this...

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144940

rets

I'm not the big fan to new 06GS yet although I love my 99GS300. Without having chance to sit into that car, it's hard to tell my feelings. But, from the pics "he" posted, I don't feel impressive to GS...


http://pressroom.lexus.com/photo_lib...lltext&kw=06gs


Btw, it's Lexus forum, and I wouldn't expect "he" said anything good about non-Lexus brands.


Happy New Year.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

1sicklex up to his usual

Some of the comments there were fair to the RL though, playing up its strength as a value leader. What I don't understand is why people think just because the car they buy has a V8 option that they didn't get, it makes a difference. They didn't buy the V8 so why does the fact that the V8 is there make a difference?

phile

As was seen on the Acurazine forums, it doesn't have to be a Lexus forum for him to say anything negative about non-Lexus products.

phile

BTW, I made those comparisons in the GS thread over at ACL. Using those same pics. Looks like sicklex still frequents these boards.

phile

LOL at this one from vladi:

Clearly no clue what he's talking about. There's no false advertising at all. In fact, Acura states on its website that the wood steering wheel is "wood look" trim. So the only wood that's fake is the steering wheel; the optional wood shift knob as well as the wood on the dash and doors is genuine curly maple.

Karl_in_Chicago

The GS is "the greatest sport luxury sedan ever"? I just thought it was a really nice sedan, never though of it as having any "sport" to it. My sister used to have a nice GS300 which I though was a heck of a car; sadly, she traded it in on an Explorer (she hit a deer and was freaked, understandably, and wanted something that sat higher up).

I'm very interested in seeing what both the production versions of the new Infiniti and Lexus end up being like. If I had to decide right now it would be the new RL to replace my Volvo cross-country. In the end it will probably be the RL anyway but a little pricing pressure from the other guys to get Acura off the MSRP that most sales are going for right now would be welcome.

SPUDMTN

It completely fries my ass that everyone on Club Lexus is so amazingly biased. They are so stuck on the Lexus badge, that they won't even take into consideration another product similar (or heaven forbid...BETTER). They glaze over the details and ignore the stone cold truth. I know for a fact that the GS will be one great vehicle--Lexus builds great products. The Infiniti, too, will be amazing...probably the best handling vehicle, too. But it just amazes me how all the Club Lexus members are completely blinded by the shiny chrome "L"s circling in their eyes. Do they not understand it's a matter of personal tastes?

Further, what do they have to be so cocky about? Like our Acuras, their Lexuses are only glorified versions of their parent company. Save for the flagship models (the LS and LX) there are no models in their lineup that appeal to me. But I know (and am more than happy to say) that they make some of the most serene, luxurious, trouble free vehicles out there. Their products just aren't "right" for me. Does it make it any lesser of a brand to me? Not at all. I just prefer Acura.

8-)

Well said!

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

Does 1sicklex even know what the hell he's talking about? Not if he's saying crap like this:

"The GS 300 was also chosen as 10 best winner 3 times, car of the year and won its initial comparisons. It still fairs well after 7 years. It is a sports sedan but its fine that you think its soft/cushy. I am sure 99% of the tiime, GS 300 owners bought it for that reason. "

Also, I was scrolling through pictures of the interior of the new GS, and it's just plain ugly. Just ugly. What is the deal with the "plastic-looking" silver "ring" around the navigation system screen? It looks like one of those portable TVs that you can just pull out of the dash. It just seems out of place.

It's amazing to me that Acura can put out 300 HP in a naturally-aspirated V6.

I think Lexus's are nice cars, but I would never buy one. I think they're too soft.

On that note, I have heard that the customer service at a Lexus dealer is out of this world. I know there are some "bad-apples" in the car business as far as dealers go, but I've heard that Lexus is consistenly rated near the top. Way to go.

SPUDMTN

This is very true. Lexus service is phenomenal. I have the pleasure, however, of saying that my Acura dealer is just as good as the local Lexus dealer...right down to the car wash with a service, and the milk chocolate molded into the Acura logo. The car wash isn't done quite as well as at the Lexus dealer, but still...

Overall, I'd say that the Lexus dealer has a slight edge over the Acura dealer.

BarryH

What one poster at clublex said is true, look at the number of panels and seams in the RL vs. the GS in the interior shots. The Infiniti interior shots don't show a lot but it looks comperable to the Acura. The availibility of a V8, RWD, and sport suspensions put the GS and M in a different league than the RL. In V6/AWD drive form, they're all probably equal performance wise.

phile

I actually think that works in favor of the RL. More panels IMO make it look as if the design is complex and more work was required in assembling it. I commented on this in the ACL thread regarding the interior door designs...the RL's looks the most expensive out of the three. The GS's one-piece look, and the M35's 1990s curtain leather treatment, both appear down-market and outdated in comparison to the RL's.

machination

With "only" 245 hp (funny how here in 2005 that doesn't sound like a lot), I'm sure the GS will bring up the rear in all speed categories.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

What those individuals over at clublex fail to realize is that fewer body panels means that replacing each of those body panels will be significantly more expensive. I hope they don't plan on getting into an accident because I'd rather deal with more body panels and pay less to replace a panel than have damage that might not affect certain areas of an attached body panel on to have to replace the whole thing at extraneous cost.

cM3go

I find his comment about interior parts gapping interesting. He comments how the RL and M have gaps, and the GS has none, its very "tight"

I would find this to be a bad thing, if parts of a very TIGHT finish, you're bound to have more rattling. If you have ample spacing between parts, it leaves room for them to expand and contract due to temp changes.

dseag2

Well said. And as you can see by the thread I've been trying to defend the RL to those guys at CL who are totally closed-minded. I'm a former GS owner, but it doesn't matter. Once you leave the "Lexus clan" you are immediately treated as an outcast! I finally gave up because, as you said, they are completely blinded by the shiny chrome "L".

And 1SickLex never has anything good to say about any other brand. (FYI, he drives a 90's model ES300 because he totaled his GS4 sometime last year. ) In the thread, he goes on to knock not only the RL but the number of owners in the forum. The joke's on him because I don't think he's aware that this forum even exists, and I'm certainly not going to inform him because we don't need his negativity here.

Anyway, as I posted in the CL forum, I think the 3 interior pictures of the RL, M, and GS are actually a good argument for the RL or M and against the GS. The guys over at CL don't seem to realize the "emperor has no clothes"! I'm sure Lexus won't provide anything less than the best when it comes to materials, but I'm sure not impressed with the pics. IMO, it looks like Acura and Infiniti have moved ahead in design and Lexus has stayed behind. One minor detail that is noticeably absent in the new GS that has become commonplace in the more upscale cars is the metallic trim rings around the guages. The RL and M have them... even the RX330 has them... but not the GS. I know it's all a matter of personal taste, but I just don't see the attraction with the GS interior.

In all fairness, I'm actually one of the few that thinks the GS (from certain angles) is the most attractive of the 3 cars from an exterior perspective, but I spend most of my time INSIDE the car so the RL wins hands-down in my book.

SPUDMTN

I'm a member on CL, as well, and have had a Lexus in the family--but quite frankly, it just doesn't make a difference as to what we say. All they want to hear is Lexus praise. If it is any thing that may hint their vehicle is not superior to all others, they don't want to hear it...no matter the argument. They don't even listen. It's like how children plug their ears and yell "LA LA LA LA"

As to the Lexus being the best looking...I somewhat agree. However, I PERSONALLY think the front is too rounded. I really like the rear end, however--reminds me a lot of the first generation GS. Further, the GS looks much larger than the RL--which I like (BTW, I konw that the GS is actually shorter than the RL). The thing is that I love the front end of the Acura and the rear end is pretty good looking (not the best). The interior is downright impressive and all of the features make for a great "wow" factor.

phile

The current or the new GS? If it's the new one, I'm a little surprised as it looks at least longer than the RL. But maybe that's cause of the design.

J RIDE 81

Again this is personal taste, IMHO, I believe the GS looks like a Maxima. Does anyone else see that or is it just me? I do however like the look of the interior. It's a tough fight between the Acura and the Lexus, however, with all its goodies I would definitely go with the Acura. Also the M just has the worste design when it comes to their dash. Especially their lighting. Someone needs to tell them to get rid of the orange lighting. I do like the look of their seats though. Looks real comfortable.

SPUDMTN

The new GS...I know, I couldn't believe it either, but it is indeed shorter than the new RL (or so I've read). Maybe I was wrong, though.

biker

He was banned from here a couple of months ago.

Rob L

I can't stand 1SickLex. The guy is a jackass fanboy and I have showed how much of a fool he is on another board but it doesnt change how he goes about posting.

He is by far the worst person I have encountered online when it comes to criticizing everything that isn't made by his brand of choice. The best is he hasn't driven the cars he criticizes yet feels somehow his opinion is valid. I laugh when I read about him constantly going on about the RL yet I am pretty sure he hasn't even sat in the thing. I know he hasn't driven it and just forms his opinion of friggin online pictures.

I expect that when the GS and M come out he will change his mind of the M (which he seems to appreciate thus far) and start slamming it IF the reviews imply it is better than the new GS...if the RL got slammed by the automotive press and by people in general then I doubt he'd go on about the RL like he does. The guy just can't accept that Acura made a great car that possibly will be better than the new GS.

It is a shame how club lexus is all but useless now, full of ignorant biased owners because I am a Lexus freak and probably love lexus brand/cars more than 99% of the members there do. Diff is I am not a biased ignorant fanboy who thinks everything they do is golden and I can appreciate cars from other companies, hence why I bought the new RL. To me the new GS is not appealing in both interior or exterior although I am sure it will be a great car. Do I think it will be a better all-around car than the RL? Nope, and that is why I bought the RL. If the GS proves to be a better all around car than the RL I will not go and start trashing it and all that jazz. I will applaud Lexus for their accomplishment as I know how good the RL is...same with Infiniti and the new M.

I just do not see the point in trashing a car you don't own or havent even DRIVEN simply because it is made by a company other than Lexus. 1SickLex should change his name it 1StupidLexfanboy.

I also love how he is a member of what seems like every major car brand forum on the planet and in every one he takes shots at the cars if anyone dare compares them to Lexus.

Just note not all Lexus fans are like him and some of us are fairly unbiased and appreciate other cars and companies...although I think we are in the minority.

dseag2

Yes, I think the GS looks like a Maxima as well... but a much better-looking Maxima. Anyway, everything pretty much looks like everything else these days. IMO, the profile is the best angle.

Re: the orange lighting in the M, I totally agree with you. I like everything about the interior EXCEPT the orange lighting. I know Infiniti is trying to establish a "signature" color, but I just don't get it. I had a G35 coupe on order a little over a year ago and just couldn't go through with the deal because the guages were so ugly and I could barely see them. I just couldn't live with the orange day and night. They are a bit better in my FX because the speedo, etc. is white during the day and has bright trim rings (still nowhere near Acura's guages).

BTW, the seats in the FX are extremely comfortable, so I imagine the M seats will be as well. I doubt, however, that the Infiniti will be as well made as the Acura, based on past experience. I still haven't seen anything that will make me run out and trade the RL.

Rob L

two things...

I think the RL has the best gauges that I have ever seen. Lexus was the pioneer with the electroluminscent gauges but the RL is IMO better than all Lexus models. THey are so clear and the purple accent lighting ring is sweet. They also have a nice 3d look to them.

The other thing is about panel gaps in the interior...I don't think bigger/more gaps makes an interior look any less high end. What does make an interior look less high end is if the panels aren't aligned well regardless of gap size. In the RL they seemed to be aligned perfectly. I also agree about the comment how bigger gaps are better for fluctuating temp changes and should reduce rattles and squeaks.

dseag2

My sentiments exactly. However, I found the owners in the SC430 forum to be a decent, unbiased group of people similar to the RL owners. Guess that says a lot about the buyers. When I moved to the GS forum it was a totally different story. And 1SickLex leads the fanboy pack. He is everything you said and more.

FYI, he met his match several months ago in the TL forum when he went head-to-head with one of the members... "Boltjames"... over the '04 TL. Boltjames has made some of the most sarcastic, tasteless (but admittedly funny) remarks I've ever read. He's probably been banned by now. Anyway, he got into it with 1Sick over what is and isn't considered a "luxury" car and posted pics of a run-down mid-90's ES300 (which is what 1SickLex drives) and compared it to the '04 TL. That pretty much ended the argument.

dseag2

Rob L, I sent you a PM.

Rob L

haha wish I was a member of the forum then to see the two go at it.

Does 1sick talk a lot of crap about the 90s ES he drives? A 94 ES was the first Lexus my parents (FYI I am 26 so was still a youngin going to high school back then) ever got and I really liked the car. MY dad got a 96 ES300 too and it was pretty sweet...but as much as I liked the 90s ES it was a very glorified Camry so if 1Sick talks it up then he has issues. The last gen and current gen Es300/330s are a different story though. They are very very nice and anyone who still compares the current ES to a Camry (with respect to the luxury aspect) has issues.

I just do not get why 1Sick has to talk smack of this car other than he truly is "worried" that the new GS won't be as good as the RL. The best is I am sure he feels the current GS is better than the RL and having driven the GS430 a few times I can say without hesitation it is nowhere close to the RL in most areas...and I really like the current GS430.

I agree abut the SC430 forum at CL. It is nice there and you don't get the same crap you do in the GS and general car chat forums. The LS430 forum seems pretty good too. I have been a member there for a while but got banned on my old handle because I was disagreeing with some of the silly members there so they banned me. Decided to sign up again and "be nice" but i am sure I'll get banned in due time on this account as well. hehe

All I know is the IS300 is the best handling Lexus sedan (IMO) and based on me having owned both (4.5 years wiht the IS300 and now 3 weeks with the RL), I feel RL comes close to it in normal everyday handling on dry pavement. That to me is impressive. I have yet to really push the RL hard but I dont see it disappointing me when I do.

It'd be nice to give 1Sick a ride in the RL and see what he says...he wouldnt last 10 minutes in a one on one car discussion with me

DCRL

The February Motor Trend Infiniti M45 covers the Sports model with an estimated price close to that shown on Infiniti's site (with the right interior). But the price of all the tech options mentioned isn't shown anywhere in the article. (Infiniti's site lists those at more than $7000) extra on the sport version.) Still, there is a lot of information in the article applicable to the M35. It certainly seems like a fine effort from Infiniti and could improve the also-ran state of its models (excluding the already rather decent G35x).

Nonetheless, there isn't one thing in the review that makes me sorry that I bought my new RL instead. I have to admit up front that I don't like the lines of the M35/45 to begin with. To me it resembles Chevy's Impala sedan (especially around the greenhouse). And since the only model available with AWD is the M35, the stats of the V-8 don't interest me either—especially since Motor Trend's 0-60 times seldom jive with those detailed by other sources. (The 0-60 quoted for the M45 is 6.1, but it's only an estimated figure. And while Motor Trend quotes the RL's 0-60 as 7.0, no other publication or source I can find has it pegged that high.)

I'm not too wild about the dash of the M, but it does look better than the usual orange Infiniti efforts. And the interior is said to be a big step up from previous Infiniti's. (I believe the interiors shown on the Infiniti website are less exciting than the RL's, but a lot more welcoming than the new GS cabin.)

Of course I may be prejudiced. I drive Car & Driver's "Best Luxury Sedan".

Rob L

I too prefer the exterior and interior look of the RL compared to the M based on the pics of it that I have seen. Obviously that could change when I get to see the M in person and sit in it but what I do know is for sure I don't like the layout of the M regardless of the quality it may have in there.

I would be surprised if the M betters the RL in the all around package. I highly doubt the GS will so I think the M has the best shot at it. Whatever the case, I just hope all 3 do well in sales and people who choose whichever one enjoy the car they bought. I doubt either the M35 or GS300 will out accelerate the RL especially in AWD form. As for handling, the RL should be the top handler of all 3 AWD versions with probably only the M45 version being the better handling car than the RL although I guess the M35 could/should be as well.

I noticed on the new M its bose 5.1 system has speakers in the seats by the headrest. To me that doesnt seem like soemthing I'd want. Anyone else feel that way? I need to test that system out one day and see if it is superior to the RL's system. I think the new STS also has the headrest level speakers too.

8-)

Rob L: BANNED again? Time for a new sign-on...

Senneca01

The February issue of Road & Track has a new review of the M45 for those of you who are interested. Impressive performance would be an extreme understatement regarding this car. Their comments reflect the same position.

Infiniti M45

Stats

0-60 MPH - 5.3 Seconds
0-100 MPH - 13.3 Seconds
1/4 Mile - 13.8 Seconds @ 101.6 MPH
60-0 MPH - 114 Feet
Skidpad - 0.90G
Slalom - 65.4 MPH
Price as Tested: $49,990

Comments

"A quick look at the numbers shows the 4000-lb M45 is no slouch, blazing to 60 mph in 5.3 seconds and through the quarter mile in 13.8 sec, at 101.6 mph. It accomplishes this with fluid ease, the engine and transmission working together seamlessly to deliver smooth, linear acceleration throughout the powerband."

"M45's 0.90 skidpad performance validates this, setting a new Road & Track best for a production sedan."

"And its 65.4 mph slalom speed is among the fastest for a luxury 4-door, bested only by more expensive hot rods like the Audi RS-6, BMW M5, and Mercedes-Benz C55.

"Much of this can be attributed to the well-executed suspension tuning, but the noticeably stiffer platform also gives the suspension a more competent foundation to work with."

"The occasional harshness and chassis flex of the G35 are nowhere to be found. Instead, the M45 motors over most bumps with confidence, the suspension doing its job unfettered by interference from other parts of the car."

"On the performance side of the performance/luxury equation, the M45 more than succeeds in delivering speed, handling, and driver involvement."

"The M45 interior marks a welcome departure, its interior backed up by dramatically improved materials and overall execution."

"There is a greater feel of quality inside the cabin, from the spec of the materials to the general fit and finish."

"After the success of the G35, it comes as no little surprise that Infiniti has followed a similar formula with the M45. Built around an improved version of a proven platform, the M45 delivers performance and luxury in an attractive, well-appointed package."

machination

So the M45 runs neck and neck with the 545i auto. Both are 5.3 to 60 and 13.8 sec in the quarter, but the 5 is going 103.

Braking and skidpad is impressive, but I would expect more in the slalom, since the RL with smaller tires is only .3 mph slower.

Rob L

daaaaaamn, that is one quick and high performing sedan. Impressive indeed.

I am curious what the M35 and M35x do in the performance area...naturally EVERYONE who feels the need to criticize the RL will bring up the M45 just like many do by comparing the RL to the 545i rather than the 530i. I often wonder how people can be that stupid especially since I am sure that stupidity is a sign of thier every day life.

Interesting the M45 slalom number isn't higher...or maybe I should say "impressive" the RL's slalom figure is as high as it is.

Not that I really care about the numbers of the RL but I do find it impressive how it got what, .87g on the skidpad and 65.2 mph in the slalom in its motortrend test. Not bad for a car the detractors say doesn't have any performance...

What options did they have with the M45 they tested? That price seems low...they should add all the junk (liek actual luxury car features people will have in their M45s) to it and see what performance hit the car takes. I am guessing it'd be minimal.

I am curious to see how the GS will perform in these areas.

frainc

Agree with you on this big time. When it comes to the RL, people just don't compare a V6 to a V6, always throws in a V8 and them say, look how slow the RL is. I guess folks just like to come into a forum and just like to think they look smart, but they'll not.

dseag2

I'll probably be banned next, and ya know what? I don't even care anymore.

The GS forum has turned into one big free-for-all. This is largely due to having a moderator that likes to troll other forums and plant strategically placed negative comments (even on the GS threads) to start arguments.

I'm a member of quite a few automotive forums, and I've never experienced this with any other moderators. I can't believe CL puts up with it.

Let them go ahead and ban the members that can add personal experience because they actually drive the cars they can only spew statistics and opinions about. Real smart.

(Sorry to stray off topic.)

SPUDMTN

Straying even more off topic...and not intentionally trying to stoop to their level, but...it seems the GS forum is full of a bunch of poseurs. I'll just leave it at that and not name any specifics.

I will say that 1Sick has had some unbiased things to say every now and then. I don't remember where to find the posts...but he has

Senneca01

The interesting thing is that the M45 weighs 250 lbs more than the 545i auto, but is still as quick and good performing. BMW did a good job on weight reduction with the extensive use of aluminum, but I think that may have hurt them in crash test ratings where they only got 3 stars, redid the car and still only got 4 stars.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

A $55,000+ car with only a 4 star crash test rating...that's just unacceptable.

dseag2

He does have some unbiased things to say, and he is very knowledgable about automobiles. It's a shame he can't let that speak for itself.