Mugen RL

Please help me. Let me explain my situation. Mid-November 2009, I ordered the 5ZIGEN Fireball Mega exhaust from the Visionary Racing website after confirming with "Sam" that the item would arrive within 40-50 days. Near the end of December 2009, I asked for an update. Sam told me that the shipping was delayed due to the holiday season and I was given an ETA of January 20. At the end of January 2010, I asked him again where my exhaust was. He told me there was a mixup in the order and that they were going to send me the correct exhaust by mid-March. On March 17th, I asked him again where my exhaust was. I never got a reply. I've tried e-mailing him multiple times and calling the business phone. I have had no luck in reaching anyone. 6 months later, I still do not have the exhaust or my money. I feel like I've been robbed of $1600. PayPal and Bank of America denied my claims/disputes and will not help me because the transaction was made over 45 days ago. Could anybody offer any advice? Appreciate it, I'm very frustrated with this situation.

037

Have you tried the BBB Better Business website? they might be one of the options.

I've bought from them before and didn't have any issues, it's a pretty weird situation...

phishfood

Never let someone take your money for a non-shipped product.

037

that's impossible, no one will ship anything before being paid. In this case an exhaust has to be ordered from Japan. No way someone is making that commitment without being paid first.

phishfood

There are tens of thousands of reputable merchants who will not charge your card or ask for payment until they have a product in stock, ready to ship.

So how about:

Don't let anyone charge you for something they aren't ready, or very soon to be ready, to ship.

rtr

I would go look for them!! And get your money or products back. I would pay a plane ticket to get my money back. Good luck i hope you get it.

OLD_HATCH

Are they in CA?

drive there if you can. If the situation cant get resolved, maybe get the police involved?

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, I would visit the shop if possible and then file a claim against them.

p.s. that is not legal advice since I got flamed for that, its just what I would do. </ rant>

slawek65

HA ha ha. I get f..k by Sam - visionary racing 3 years ago. I ordered Mugen front bumper and after few months (order from Japan) He send me empty box.So I am sorry, but f..k you Sam and I hope some day you gonna get pay back

sleepinxlionhart

Sorry to hear. Try bulletproofautomotive next time...they seem more reputable.

rmjse

Sorry to hear about your troubles. It's strange that you credit card company wont allow you to dispute anything older than 45 days. I had to disput a $300 charge on my CC bill like 4 months after and they took it off.

Is visionary racing an AcuraZine vendor? If so, they should be remove, IMO.

KB1Spec

iTrader: (4)

I brought a Mugen Spoiler from V.R. for my RL and didn't have any problem. Maybe contact BBB to do a dispute and ask BBB if you can do a dispute through your CC company as well. Try calling and emailing V.R. as well

Mugen RL

I bought an intake from him before too, without a problem. Took a look at the BBB website and don't think it'll help. Dirty Sam...

037

I'm gonna ask around, I think VR is a New York shop.

sleepinxlionhart

That's probably how they get you. Make you trust them with lower priced items, and when you go back to get more expensive items, you get scammed.

037

I ordered SS brake lines from them, no problems.

I'm sure the rules change for stuff they have to ship from Japan.

Gotta try asking mods to see if they got their address and just show up and ask bout it.

Mugen RL

Thanks for all the help, 037. I'm going to ask neuronbob.

edit: Filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

neuronbob

Sam was a vendor at one time with AZ, but hasn't been for 2 or 3 years.

I've ordered parts from him as well with no trouble.

I'll see what I can do. The trouble with ordering parts from Japan is that the shipping takes soooooo long.

037

did you get their address from them?

23109VC

I am a CA prosecutor.

the short answer, is you are likely out your money unless he willingly makes good on the transaction.

this situation has happened a lot lately as businesses run into tough times. the business takes your money and you never get the product. there are a LOT of reasons why this happens. One possibility is that they never intended to get your part, and just took your money with the intent of ripping you off. Another possibility is that they take you rmoney,intending to order the part, then the business runs into cash flow problems, starts using cusomter money from one transaction to fund part orders for another - and eventually they come up short. It's like musical chairs, and someone winds up with nowhere to sit - in this case it's you.

Trying to prove a crime in these cases is VERY hard. It can be done, but it usually requires a LOT of victims - to the point that the police can show that due to the number of victims, timing of certain orders - and then info obtained from the distributors - we can show that after suspect/business tells customer - "i ordered your part, it's coming, it's on backorder, etc", we confirm with the vendor that part was NEVER ordered.... stuff like that.

In the event that a business just has hard times and your order is the one that never got filled - you can sue. and good luck getting your money.

I'd pursue trying to get satisfaction through the credit card companies. I'd put together all the emails you had from the guy, and forward them to the credit bureau, explaing why there was a delay in the filing.
I'd also file a police report with the agency that has jurisdiction over where he is based. they can take a report over the phone. get the report and forward that to the credit card bureau - that might help.

but FIRST, I"d make final efforts to contat VR and advise them of the legal actions you will be taking if they fail to refund your money. You can file the police report, contact BBB, and post all over various websites... but ultimately, this may not work and you will be forced to do something else.

you'd need to actually sue him or call the police. The police will maybe take a report over the phone - but honestly, you can forget about getting any kind of results wiht a police report or trying to press criminal charges. $1600 is not a lot of money in the criminal justice system... it's barely worth a felony.. if that even. I know CA says over $400 is a felony, but that's not the reality of how charges are filed... $1600 theft gets people a misd plea and no time...

it's likely not a criminal situation - you or the police will NOT be able to prove that he *intended* to steal your money.

taking someone's money, then not following through with delivering a product is NOT stealing. if *can be*...but ONLY if they took your money WITH the simultaneous intent to never follow through with getting you the product. proving that is not easy. being a crappy business owner is NOT a crime...

so you can sue him...you have a $1600 loss. that's small claims. then..if you win, you have to collect.

If you have the time and willpower - a lawsuit would be the way to go.

If I wasn't a lawyer who worked for the state - I'd tell you to buy a Louiseville slugger and go look for his car....

plastikman

Wow I am surprised that Sam has not responded to you. Many people on here have purchased from him in the past, including Bob of course. I purchased the same exhaust and ran into problems as well and he refunded me right away. I hope this all takes care of itself soon, good luck man.

sleepinxlionhart

I got scammed recently, but not from buying car parts. My situation sounded a lot like yours, except this guy said he'll refund my money but it never came to fruition. So it ended up that my CC company was the one that got my money back. Funny thing is, the first dispute rep I talked to didn't really help me out, said I needed to have paper work..etc. Called the next day, another rep picked up, and I told my story, and they said that was good enough, and they got my money back. Maybe try to call or CC company again, maybe this time someone more helpful will pick up?

Not sure how small claims court will deal with this since both parties are across the country, not sure if that matters though.

Mugen RL

I've talked to so many reps from Bank of America and PayPal. No luck.

neuronbob

Awaiting a reply from Sam.

OLD_HATCH

do you know anyone close to the shop?

I mean you could slip em a 20 for their trouble and just have him/her walk up to the counter and give someone their cell with you on the other line.

Mugen RL

I'm pretty sure there's no shop. It's a business poorly run by one guy.

OLD_HATCH

have you tried your local and his local police departments to see if they're of any help?

midnitesi

:0 u spent 1600 dollars on and exhuast!!!! holy crap, !!! file a claim with paypal

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Sorry to hear this. Hopefully it all works out.

neuronbob

He did, but it was outside of the time limit.

2007AcuraRL

Visionary Racing was based in the Bronx or Queens, NYC. He's got an area code 718 phone number listed on his website (again, Queens or the Bronx) and all the photos he posted of his car on acurazine were taken around Queens and NYC. Note sure where he is nowadays. The fax number also listed on his site is from Salt Lake City, but maybe he's just drop shipping from that location. He sold off his modded up RL maybe 2 years ago, and looking at his website today, it seems he's into modding Subaru WRXs now. You might want to poke around a few of the tuner website forums for Suby and see if you find him hawking his wares there now. If so, you could sign up there and post some of the details about your unfavorable experience with him. Might cause some people to not do business with him, and if you're lucky, he'll PM you and tell you to cool it in return for him either refunding your cash or getting you the exhaust. Seems the best way to get his attention is to get in his face (or at least in his business).

rob-2

Did you claim failure to deliver?

Charge backs fall into the following categories
1. Goods not received
2. Goods not as described
3. Good returned without refund
4. Did not authorize the charge

Though this typically has a 45 day window they would still have to prove delivery.

This is a good lesson for others though, don't let yourself get charged for something with a long lead time.

FYI, I've had Visa go back 7 months and do a charge back. It all depends on who you speak too. I had everything documented and faxed about 40 pages to visa. I had some fancy visa card at the time and did a lot of business. My bank batted for me with visa and the business could not refute my claim.

neuronbob

Still awaiting a reply after messaging him two weeks ago. Would sure be nice to hear the other side here.

NJ SHAWD

PM'd you, the pics look like either Queens or State Island. If so, I'm close and can try going in.

ichi d

i'd try and find his store where ever it is, (thats if he even has one) fly or drive there and smash all of his windows.... call it a day and take my loses after that. SAMS A GOOF HE NEEDS TO GET K.O.

rob-2

Threatening violence against someone on a public form is stupid to say the least.

ichi d

thats just real talk.

neuronbob

We do not tolerate threats like this on the forum. "Real talk" like that will get you banned in a hurry. This will be your only warning, ichi d.

ichi d

ok sir!!! my bad!!!!

Mugen RL

So basically, nothing's happened. What a fuckin scum bag. What's the best option for an exhaust? Can I get one custom made? Not trying to risk $1600 again by buying online.