briny319

I am in the process of buying a 05 RL and I just read in another thread "Onstar's cellular calling uses Verizon Wireless' 800 mhz analog calling network, which VZW is shutting down as of 12/31/07 due to the FCC forcing cellular carriers to switch to all-digital and return the analog spectrum. Which means that Onstar's analog service will go away on that date. Onstar is switching to a digital service and apparently has offered some customers (Cadillac owners for one) the ability to "upgrade" to the digital service - at a cost of $549 - $2159. They also forced the owners to prepay for 3 years of service."

I thought this was nuts so I called OnStar and sure enough service will be discountinued for the RL on 12/31/07 unless the car is upgraded to digital. After a little googling I found that this was a known issue back in 2005 and at that point acura had no plans to upgrade old vechicles. According to the onstar rep I just spoke to the upgrade has to be can be done by a dealer and the price varies. Has anyone looked into this. I really like onstar and would like to have it after 12/31...

bhavin3623

yea my parents love onstar.. did not know bout this though

CL6

Relax, the 05 RL should be digital. It's the 04 and earlier owners that are SOL.

csmeance

According to onstar there are 3 types:
Analog-Only: OnStar-equipped vehicles with analog-only equipment were designed to operate only on the analog cellular network and there is no digital upgrade available. Vehicles with this equipment will no longer be able to receive OnStar services beginning January 1, 2008. At that time, service will be available only through dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment. (Refer to Question #6 for additional details.)

Analog/Digital-Ready: OnStar-equipped vehicles with analog/digital-ready equipment operate on the analog cellular network, but can be upgraded to dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment if available for that vehicle. Beginning January 1, 2008, OnStar service will not be available on these vehicles unless the OnStar equipment has been upgraded to dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment.

Dual-Mode (Analog/Digital): OnStar-equipped vehicles with dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment operate on both the analog and digital cellular networks and will not require an upgrade in connection with the cellular industry's transition to the digital network.

I think we may have the middle one or less likely the last one

dwboston

"Should be digital" but actually may not be. The Onstar information is somewhat conflicting about which model years are affected. The 2005 GM model year cars (Cadillacs for example) needed to be converted. Why would the Acuras from 2005 be different?

lindros2

I would strongly believe that from experience (using OnStar emergency service and using my car as a second phone via Verizon Family Plan) that our car is digital or dual-mode. I've had Verizon analog devices, and the quality in the car was *far* better than my analog VZW phone.

Furthermore Verizon analog service in the southeast (Georgia/Carolinas) is very spotty, and I never had one issue or dropped call with OnStar-as-a-phone reception.

With that said the biggest problem was tired noise "intruding" on my phone conversations....

neuronbob

Repost. Well, actually this came up as part of another thread this week, so it was hard to see unless you'd already read the thread.

Someone actually called OnStar and it is indicated that 2006 and up RLs are digital. No need to panic. The OnStar radio must have been upgraded for 2006 and on.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...4&postcount=16

chuck abbott

Like Briny319 I would like clarification on the 05 as that is my vehicle.

TampaRLX-SH

Then only 2006 RL have the digital cross compatibility. ONSTAR was discontinued with the 2007 models.

Professor

I just called Onstar, and they tested it over the phone. The 2005 RL is digital. Service will continue as of Jan. 1st 2008, BUT THEY ARE GOING UP $2 a month as of Oct. 1, 2007.

Mike_TX

OnStar is struggling financially, and is trying to fix its low subscribership problems with rate increases.

.
.

briny319

What to believe:

I called an Acura dealer this morning to find out about the upgrade the onstar rep told me I needed. The service advisor said there is no upgrade and he was unsure if the 05 is digital or analog. I then called Acura Client Services and after 20 mins the rep told me the 05 and 06 RL are digital. I called OnStar again just to make sure and again was told the vin has analog service. I then called Acura again who had and OnStar rep contact me to confirm the 05 is digital. But I'm still not sure what to believe. I guess we shall see on 1-1-08.

neuronbob

Another brilliant plan to gain subscribers. Agree with you, Mike.

Tampa, you are correct--2007 RLs have no OnStar. My bad.

johnhayd

onstar is going up $2 per month, but if you're willing to buy a year or more in advance, you SAVE money. When I spoke to the onstar rep about the package: there was a $50 discount on the package: saving more $

neuronbob

Good to know. I activated in late September last year. If I decide to renew for a year, I'll wait until October to renew.

Mike_TX

All indications are that OnStar is going to be a GM-only service before long. The licensing agreements GM had with Acura, VW and others have pretty much expired and no one seems interested in renewing them at this point. The obvious reason is lack of interest.

And to the extent GM owns ONStar, it has a financial stake in keeping it alive. Unfortunately, GM has other substantial financial obligations, so there are lots of folks who doubt OnStar will be in existence in a few years. That being the case, I wouldn't advise paying TOO far in advance ...

.
.

CL6

OnStar does not need to turn a profit in order to be valuable. This is an older article but still has merits:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...173.A9270.html

I know of many people who chose their car based upon whether OnStar was available or not. If my wife and kids were driving around I would like them to have OnStar in their vehicle.

Lexus uses OnStar under their name of Lexus Link and Mercedes has their own OnStar-type service which I'm sure doesn't turn a profit.

I think it was a mistake for the RL to not come with OnStar anymore. I think it maybe had more to do with Acura trying to cut costs than anything else.

GoHawks

I think I mentioned this in another thread. A couple months ago I was having a conversation with the owner of the dealership where I bought my RL, and during the conversation the subject of OnStar came up. He mentioned exactly the situation mentioned in this thread.

He did say that Honda has a big stake in XM and they're currently developing an "On-Star like" system in partnership with XM. He didn't give me a date, but he did say it was coming.

CL6

That's cool but I think it was stupid to drop a telematics system from your Flagship sedan. But Honda does things like drop their supercar, their coupes... hatchbacks... names...

Mike_TX

Well, CL6, Honda hasn't cornered the market on that ... Ford, Chevy, Dodge and others have confused the entire marketplace by juggling names, dropping names, resurrecting names and otherwise mucking up the whole brand-recognition scheme.

As for OnStar, the world seems to be divided into two camps - people who love it and people who wouldn't give you a stinkin' dime for it. There don't seem to be many people in the middle. Like I said in another thread, the basic idea is probably a decent concept, i.e., emergency communication. But as so often happens, they got greedy and tried to make too much of it (cellphone substitute, navigation system, restaurant reservations, etc., etc.) and overpriced it.

I wouldn't object to an OnStar that just sat in the background and did NOTHING but respond if there was an accident, and cost maybe $10 a year. But when it tries to do all that other goofy stuff, it gets out of control and the cost reflects that. They're competing with cellphones (which almost everyone has) and Navigation systems (that an ever-increasing number of people have), and it's an uphill battle.

Glad you like it, but you're in the minority, as evidenced by the re-subscription rates.

.
.

SpicyMikey

I agree Mike. I can't imagine paying for OnStar with 99% of the functionality already provided in one way or another. I'd take it for free (or a nominal charge as you suggested), but I wouldn't pay the going rate.

I think it falls into the same category as the current NavTraffic (without flow data). Yes, it's better then nothing, but barely. Not a "must have" piece of technology.

briny319

For me it was a must have. It was one of the features I was looking for in a car. With my daughter in the car I want every safety feature known to man. To bad acura doesn't have a lane departure system like volvo.

neuronbob

I just received my renewal notice for OnStar in the mail today. Talk about timely! I took the opportunity to go to the OnStar website to see exactly what we pay for with the "Safe and Sound" package.

http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp...safe_sound.jsp

We have AcuraConnect, so this is not applicable.

Good to have.

Good to have.

Interesting, but that's what my cell phone and navi are for.

Worth the price of admission to me. Only fly in the ointment is that you gotta call quick or the thieves can get your car into a place that the digital cell signal can't penetrate.

Ummm.....it's almost impossible under normal circumstances to lock yourself out of your RL, unless you keyfob's battery is dying, and you'd know it before that happened. Not useful.

The RL has this, with your cell phone. Why pay for this again?

I have AAA, and even if I didn't we all have roadside service through Acura. Why pay for this again?

Some people do need their hand held in a terrible situation.

I can see that being useful in a stadium parking lot if you are beyond the range of your keyfob. I didn't know this was available for our RL.

No thanks, that's what XM is for.

So basically I'd be paying $199 a year for the emergency stuff, which is IIRC available even without a plan, and for the vehicle location program. I'm considering paying but it certainly doesn't look like a very good investment. I could pay for LoJack, which is now available in my part of Ohio, but the price of install is the same as three years of Onstar.

Decisions, decisions....

johnhayd

I see the remote unlocking useful if you lose your key or if the valet loses your key. I keep the extra mechanical key in the car without the electronic key fob. Once onstar unlocks your car, you can use the mechanical key to start the car and lock/ unlock doors. I don't leave the electronic part of the keyfob in the car because, as we know, with the electronic key inside the car, anyone who opens the car doors can start the car without having to find the key.

TampaRLX-SH

I agree on almost all fronts. But some additional considerations.....

The Crisis Assist is beneficial in some ways. When we had hurricanes here in Florida, cell service was interrupted or overburdened. ONSTAR may offer another avenue for contact that the cell could not. Family simply could not reach us for 3 days. I would have paid $200 for ONE phone call to let them know we were OK.

Also, from personal experience, in an emergency or severe accident, the ONSTAR rep will KEEP TRYING to get ahold of people while you deal with the crisis at hand.

Again, from personal experience, having ONSTAR call your vehicle when airbags are deployed and dispatch emergency support. Since my arm was broken and I was pinned , my cell phone somewhere in the debris and ONSTAR actually relayed vital information to paramedics before they scraped me off the road.

I hope I never need it again. I will gladly pay the $199 even if I never hit that button again.

VOdoc

Right on, Mike. OnStar keeps calling me to try to get me to use their cellular service. Right before asking them not to call any more, I patiently explain that I have a perfectly good cellphone with Bluetooth so their service is redundant. To me OnStar is a half-assed LoJack and an emergency beacon. Worth about $10 a year.

briny319

Well said.

VPescado

I thought OnStar used the cell infrastructure for communication? Presumably, if OnStar worked, then someone with a cell (using whichever carrier OnStar uses) would be able to make a call. Or am I missing something?

CL6

So for $199 per year, if your child or wife was driving and hit by a drunk driver and their car ran off the road and wrecked and they were knocked unconsious OnStar would send somebody to help them and maybe save their life? All for less than the price of two matinee tickets at the movie theater per month? Seems worth it to me.

neuronbob

Well, when you put it like that....I would pay for it for my wife's ride as I would have more peace of mind than I already do with her driving a Honda Pilot. Since I'm the driver of the RL, I guess a little peace of mind and the vehicle location service could be worth $199. But you can understand the amount of analysis that goes into making that kind of financial decision.

I'll probably end up renewing.

TampaRLX-SH

ONSTAR is on an analog which has greater range should some local towers be knocked out, as was the case here. It offers some level of backup, especially since GSM service requires local towers to remain active. Further, analog is used as emergency backup and support for government agencies and support service subscribers such as ONSTAR. There is a better chance that network will be enabled before GSM or public 'use' of a damaged system. There are no guarentees and indeed even ONSTAR service was affected by the hurricanes. But even if it was sporadic, getting through ONCE would have enabled the ONSTAR rep to play admin assistant and forward all messages and details to whomever, and follow up repetitively until the messages got through.

I agree it is a slim detail, but when you have lived through that, $200 would have been a non issue.

TampaRLX-SH

Think of it as insurance or a home security service fee. We all hate to pay for it. Most rarely use it. But when you need it, you are glad you have it. At minimum, you have to decide if it has value simply for peace of mind.

SpicyMikey

It would have been nice to have that "emergency alert" feature I hear people talk about. Unfortunately, the 07 RL didn't offer On-Star. I hope Acura comes out with something comparable in the next couple years. I'd pay for that monitoring service, but certainly no add on services for navigation or voice calls, etc.

Mike_TX

Tampa, I VERY MUCH doubt your assertion that analog cellphones have greater range than GSM. For one thing, I doubt providers would have migrated to GSM if it were inferior. For another, and admittedly this is subjective, when Cingular went digital (GSM), it was like magic - no more dropped calls, no crosstalk, and the cellphone suddenly works out in the middle of NOWHERE. It is amazing.

BUT ... none of this really matters, does it, since OnStar is abandoning their analog system in a few months and going all-digital!

As much as they might like you to believe otherwise, OnStar is a cellphone-based system (using primarily Verizon, Sprint and some At&T, in fact), and they have no secret nuclear telephone system that works when towers are down.

.
.

TampaRLX-SH

Yikes Mike. I did not mean to open a Texas sized hornets nest.

What you say is true. But Digital GSM allows for more dense data transmission, hense better clarity, reduced cross talk and better data transmission than older analog systems.

However, the range for signal transmission for GSM is shorter than analog. Older analog systems are more similar to radio waves which carry over greater distance. Maybe not as sophisticated, or reliable, but likely more range from working towers.

I could be wrong, but this is what was explained to me.

I am sorry if I got your goat up. My opinions are merely that. Opinions.

SpicyMikey

Not an RL topic, but I agree with Tampa. Digital signals do not travel as far as analog. However, all things considered, digital was the path to the future. Digital systems allow more data on the same bandwidth. Also, the features we've all become fond of; text messaging, email, multimedia, etc., would not have been possible with Analog. Service providers knew the downside of digital but also knew that was where the future was. Analog has been phasing out for 10 years now. It's all but gone. The one downside, they need a higher density of towers.

Mike_TX

LOL! Did I come on too strong? Sorry.

We all get different stories, but I'm told digital allows for much more data to be transmitted, and that the signal erodes far less than analog. It's all line of sight to towers, of course, but in spite of the lower current draw for digital, the actual physical transmission range isn't reduced.

Also, don't both systems default to wire lines where towers aren't available?

No, your comment just caught me off guard and didn't jibe with what I've read and been told. Supposedly, digital is superior in virtually all ways., but I'm not going to pretend to be an expert.

(Now, be careful in the future and don't get me riled ... )

.
.

Mike_TX

Looks like another vote against me.

I've tried researching this on the internet, but haven't come up with anything that suggests digital signals somehow travel shorter distances than analog signals. Can you explain why that is? Both digital and analog phones appear to use the same signal strength, so it would seem that their range would, if anything, be equal.

.
.

neuronbob

Not to let this cell network discussion get out of hand, but.....Verizon (which is OnStar's primary provider) and Sprint are not GSM, they are CDMA. I desperately wanted VZW to be GSM when the iPhone came out, but alas.....

ddswv

Stolen Vehicle Location Assistance
If you report your vehicle stolen, OnStar can work with authorities and attempt to locate your vehicle.


On a previous post over the past year I remember reading that the Onstar system locator is useless if the theives decide to unhook the battery.......So get a flatbed truck and disconnect the battery and OnStar is useless in locating it and off to the chopshop.

Oh well, I wouldn't want the car back anyhow if it's been tore up when its stolen.