No, I'm not about to trade (I think ), but I decided to grit my teeth and run a kbb trade-in value on my RL. I say "grit my teeth" because we all know the RL is reputed to have crummy trade-in value.

I've had the RL about 15 months, it is a lease, and I didn't put down a dime on it. At 17,000 miles, I find it is worth only $1,500 less than my current payoff amount! IOW, I'm only $1,500 upside-down, which was a pleasant surprise.

OTOH, my wife's 2006 Caddy STS is worth $10,000 LESS than my '06 RL, and she is about $9,000 upside-down on her lease - in spite of the fact I bought it down by plunking down $5,000 at time of purchase. Talk about shi**y trade-in value! And we paid about the same amount for both cars ($+/- $42k).

I'm about to decide the stories of crappy trade-in value for RL's are like the reports of Mark Twain's death ... greatly exaggerated.

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You should see what some of these used RLs are going for in the real world (meaning off AZ).....pretty good.

KBB tends to overestimate, though. Galves (which you have to pay for) is apparently what the dealers actually use for trade-in value. Might be worth $7.95 to satisfy everyone's curiousity.

 

This thread helps a lot in my CTS-vs-RL analysis

Thanks

 

Rizzo, the new CTS looks good - better, in fact, than any recent Cadillac product. But I'll say this: the car my wife had before the STS was a CTS, and I took a bath on it as well.

She is a diehard Cadillac person, and we've died pretty hard every time we've traded one of them. Her STS stickered for about $45k as best I recall, and after 18 months and 16,000 miles it's worth $24,500? That's a loss of 42% in a year and a half, and the STS is one of Caddy's more modern and popular products! And here my lowly RL is worth $34,500 - a loss of only 18%.

I really don't get it. Cadillac has some kind of thing going where they get top dollar for their cars and yet they aren't worth crap the day after you buy them.

So, as good as the new CTS looks, I fully expect it to plummet in value like all Cadillacs when you drive off the dealer's lot. If trade-in value matters, I'd strongly advise you to look somewhere besides Cadillac.

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Interesting...my dad has a lifelong affinity for Caddies, even though his current one has an even stronger affinity for the repair shop (out of warranty of course). I'm trying to sell him on the merits of an Acura, but for some brand-addicted folks there is no substitute.

 

I hear ya. Caddy has the highest resale value of any GM product...imagine if you bought a Pontiac! You'd really be beat.

I got some good seat time in the new CTS at the LA auto show and it feels pretty good but I cant escape the anxiety of the thing giving a lot of problems or endless rattles. Interesting note: since the MT "Car of the Year" award, dealers are actually trying to get at or over sticker for a CTs. Figure that a loaded CTS with the performance engine and Nav plus a few upgrades is stickered at $44k. You can get a RL with Tech for that right now on CarsDirect right now I still have memories of a guy on the BMW board that Lemon-law'ed his CTS-V.

 

if you want to see depreciation, BMW 760LI, new is 133K, used 2005 is about 65K... that would hurt your wallet pretty badly, 50% loss in 2 years.

 

Sometimes, things are not as bad as they seem. Even though the 2G RL is not a hot seller, it has managed to maintain its value far better than expected. It's not as good as the 3G TL in that department, but still.

The RL IS the best-kept secret in the auto world...people keep saying this, and I agree.

 

when I bought my 03 TL in 9/03 for 25.6k I knew that I was saving a lot on a good car, but that it was going to be replaced by a newer model that was selling for a lot more money. Even with having the older body I was able to sell it for 18k after owning it for almost 4 years.

I guess what I am saying is even if the 3g RL is a great upgrade, as long as it goes substantually up in price, the resale value of our 2g RL should be maintained. If there is enough interest in the new mondel, it may actually elevate interest in out 2g cars.

Without a doubt the lack of interest in the 2g RL has hurt the value of 1gRL...infact, I would say the 2gTL comparably equiped may have similar or higher value than the 1gRL of the same year and mileage. Look on ebay...

 

I got 34k for my 06 with26k miles in Sept when I traded on my MDX.

 

Absolutely. And to my benefit


Perhaps on Ebay, but not KBB. The RL is still worth a little bit more.

For example:

02 TL-P vs 02 RL

Both with navigation, 30K miles and excellent condition in Portland Oregon. All figures are for private party.

RL = $18,755
TL = $16,080

For a 2002 TL-S with Navi, 30 K and excellent condition

TL-S = $17,030


As you can see, you can get a car that was $14,000 more when both were brand new for a $2500 premium now.

And it IS a much nicer car... what a GREAT highway cruiser. Looking forward to the 2nd gen RLs to getting cheaper soon

 

I just did mine on KBB
Miles 8000 (its my weekend car )
Condition - Excellent ( it sits well in my garage )
All features they have on except upgraded premium Rims
Value - $38,700
That is not so bad, I think the value is holding better then most cars, just like you guys said. So I to am pleasantly surprised !

 

The dealer will always give you about $3-5K less than it's really worth. That's call a "low ball" offer. You can only get what it's worth if you sell it yourself.

 

That is when you tell the dealer to " fly a kite " If they want to make the sale they will get pretty close to the trade in value. If not, then like you said you can always sell it on your own. Most of us aren't looking to sell though, it is just nice to know what your car is worth.

 

Any car is only worth whatever someone is willing to give you--no more and no less. No dealer is going to give you the "excellent" condition price, unless you buy it one day and sell it the next, and even then you are going to lose a couple thousand dollars.

The odds are always stacked against you in buying a new car. It's just like in Vegas where the house always wins, even if it's as little as 1%.

When you trade your car in the dealer is taking a gamble, and depending on the car it is sometimes a big gamble. Even if a car dealer sells you a car at the "invoice" price he or she is still going to make $3-5K on the sale and usually more.

The invoice price is not what the dealer actually pays for the car. You can never see the actual buying price unless you have someone in the business. The costs of a dealers floor plan (price he or she has to pay for the honor of selling a particular brand) is often in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and in some cases millions. He or she has to recoup that cost somewhere.

Dealers make the most money on a percetage basis selling used cars, and the most money in the service department. The nice shiny new cars are just there to get you in the dealership. Once you cross the threshold they know in a minute or two if you are going to buy and how much they are going to take you for. Like I said, it's a game you can't win.

 

the worst trade-in deal that I ever have seen....against my advice, a friend of mine wanted to buy a civic si new. He bought it for a couple hundred over invoice for about 18k. He didnt like the car so he went to trade it in on another car 9 months later at the same dealership. The car had about 12k miles on it and it was in factory new condition.

Are you sitting down.

With a straight face, they offered him 9k trade in. I didn't need another car, but I offered my friend 13k rather than trade in. (i told him i will sell it to mke money) He sold it to a friend of a friend for 16k and everyone was happy. This is an absolutely true story.

 

Glad your friend had sense enough to run from that deal.

 

I know what you mean about cadillac's not holding there value. My mom has a DTS (company car) and its already gone down a lot in value but luckly its not our hit its the companys.

 

Almost all US branded cars (GM, Ford and Chrysler) depreciate more than Japanese cars. It is a fact that is practically beyond dispute.

Rexorg takes the position that even if the dealer sells you a new car at invoice, it still makes at least $3-5k profit. That position might be true for a luxury car costing over $55k. I doubt if it would be true with respect to an RL. As far as I know, when a dealer sells at invoice, it still has the hold back (usually around 3% of MSRP) and perhaps other incentives (such as volume discount). Maybe CL5 can respond to this, as he is in the car business.

 

You'd think that GM would run out of people that are willing to take such a beating on any of their products when it comes to resale time (which is why the only smart way to drive any GM product, with the exception of perhaps the Corvette, is to lease one with no money down). Fortunately I'm not a Cad fan anyway, and the horrible resale value just reaffirms my disinterest. And I'd take any KBB value with a sizable grain of salt. When it comes time to moving any hard to resell car (like the RL for example), the only true way you'll ever know what it's worth is to sell it (which is of course the case with anything, but even more so with cars that enjoy disappointing resale). And if you did try, prepare to be disappointed.

 

Same deal here.
I bought a brand new Ranger STX in 2006. Sticker was $20k With rebates and grinding I got it for $15k, traded it one year later for the RDX and the best they could do was $10K. ..... and that was fair because I had it for sale online and locally for over a month with no bites whatsoever.

Cars are a poor investment.

For reference you can use the "fair" condition on KBB dealer trade in page and subtract 20% and that would be the trade in offer from a dealer.
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That's strange, we just did ours today on kbb and it was only worth about 34-35k with 13k of miles.

We are thinking of trading it in for a new Accord and Civic for the same payment to replace the old 01 Altima.

 

The factors of where you live and some options may cause your RL to be less valuable then others. I have upgraded Aspec Rims, that also makes a difference.

 

Hate to break it to you, but A-Spec Rims don't add value, in fact you will probably get less at tradein....Dealers don't like add ons like that.

 

True, dealers do not give anything for add-ons. You are better off taking them off the car and selling them. I got nothing for my A-Spec kit extra for my TL.

 

My situation's not too different. With 9 months left on the lease, I was curious about what i could get for it. My payoff amount, if i wanted an outright purchase is currently $31,195.54. KBB has it valued at $31,125.00 according to the their trade in value for a "Good" condition car based on my mileage.

The local Acura dealer offered me $28,000.00.

I laughed and told them I don't mind driving it for 9 more months, but I guess where you want to trade should be a factor as well. I'm curious as to what Carmax would offer, as I've heard stories both good and bad. In the meantime, i don't mind going through another winter with the 'ol RL.

 

I've had really good luck with Carmax. They gave me more than the KBB number on my last car (and $2k more than the dealer where I bought it offered me).

The rub - at least here - is that trade-ins reduce the taxable amount on your next purchase, so you have to factor that in, too.

As for the dealer offering $28,000, I'm not too surprised. They have to factor in time just sitting on the lot, as well as a profit when it's eventually sold. They also try to lowball you anyway, so there's usually some room to negotiate the number up.

However, when you consider the sales tax issue, even a $40,000 car is going to cost you $2,500 in tax in my state, so that's closing the gap some right there. A $28k trade-in on that same $40k car will reduce the tax to $750.

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You guys are lucky you have CarMax in your area.

I do the trade-in route for two reasons: a) I don't have time to sell on my own--10-12 hour workdays ensure that-- and b) the tax savings can be considerable, especially in my county. We have a rather steep 7.75% total sales tax.

 

If your RL is worth $28K as a trade-in, I would ask the dealer if you can buy it for that. They would rather keep you as a customer than for you to go to another brand. If you are looking to buy another Acura, I would say $28K is a fair trade-in price. Since new '08/Tech RLs are going for $44K now.

 

Your right. all dealers use Galves. If you want to get a very good idea of what Galves pricing is and what the dealer will give you, you can use KBB and select fair as the car condition.

(KBB fair condition = Galves excellent condition for the most part its within a few hundred typically. I have a friend that is a car wholesaler and he told me about this, we went through the Galves book a bit and I tested his theory and its true)

So definitely expect less than KBB, several thousand less, if you are trading it in.

 

We have 2 Carmax lots here. so maybe buying a used RL there and trading in my CLS would offer the best easy deal for me. all they ever have tho is 05 RLs and I want a newer one.

 

The local Acura dealer told me they ( and I assume most ) use auction price for the value of your car on trade in, any other amount is playing with money from the car you are buying.

 

Where can you find auction-level prices? That would take a lot of BS out of the negotiation process in trading a car for another.

I wonder whether that's what the Galves prices are?

 

When I bought my MDX ('04), I traded in a Nissan Quest minivan. My dealer offered me very little for the trade in (no surprise there) and another dealer offered me the exact same amount. The negotiated purchase price for the MDX was pretty much the same at both dealers and neither dealer would budge on that.

When I told my dealer the other one offered me $1,000 more on the trade (yes, I lied), my dealer matched it.

When I bought the RL, I traded in a Volvo S60 and was offered $3,000 less than the KBB trade in value. I negotiated a little more, but not much. I would have sold it privately, but it was starting to have some problems (which is why I got rid of it) to the point I wouldn't have felt comfortable selling it to an individual.

LL

 

This is common with any european car, KBB isn't worth shit on them. Volvo, Saab, Audi (especially A6 A8) BMW, and Benz, KBB is much higher than True Market Value.

I can't speak for all dealers, but we use Galves, KBB, NADA, and Manhiem Auction reports. None of them are correct all the time, you have to look at them all and evaluate the numbers to find out where you should really be.

A rear drive Lincoln Navigator may ring the bell at an auction down in TX, but it's value is going to drop thousands if it's being sold in a Northern climate.

 

Like I said in post 21, you can use the KBB "fair" price under trade in and subtract ~$3k and you might be close.
When I was selling cars we used the latest info from Manheim auto auctions because chances are, that was where the car was going when we took it in. http://www.manheim.com/

If they had no info we used the "black book"
http://www.blackbookusa.com/aboutus.asp

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Oh, and don't forget the, "It's not a Honda/Acura, so we can't give you as much as we would like for your trade." Why don't they just say, "We're going to screw you out of every dollar we can!" Even Saturn when they had the "no dicker sticker" would give their customers auction price or lower for their trades.

 

I have a simple question. When I want to sell my car by myself, does the asking price including tax? For ex: If I want to sell my car for 10,000. The sales tax is 9%. What is my asking price? 10,000 or 10,900 ?

 

9 times out of 10 the price does not include tax, etc.

 

just like at dealerships...when they quote you a price....TAX, TAGS & REGISTRATION IS EXTRA.

Now state inspections should be provided by seller, but not always