Mike_TX

(I'm cross-posting this in the MDX forum, too, since it involves SUV's.)

Was chatting with my dealer's Sales Mgr. a little while ago, asking about the rumored changes to the RL. He said he had just returned from a big meeting with factory people and they confirmed a V-8 is in the works for the RL.

He asked what else they planned to do with the V-8, and was told it would also go into the new, larger SUV that's in the works.

He seemed almost as surprised as I was to hear this, since really big SUV's don't seem to be the wave of the future. But he insisted they have one in development that is larger than the MDX (apparently Chevy Suburban/Toyota Sequoia-class).

In typical Honda fashion, they refused to divulge any more info, not even when the new SUV - or the V-8 RL - might be made available.

One other tidbit - they told him the upcoming NSX would also have a V-8, not the V-10 that's widely reported.

Take it for what it's worth ...

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Mike_TX

Oh, yeah, and he also volunteered that Honda is applying itself to hydrogen fuel cells over hybrids (as has been suggested in another thread).

The factory people apparently expressed the feeling that hybrids are a limited solution, and maybe just a stop-gap measure, whereas fuel cells are the long-term answer to alternative fuel vehicles (that's my translation).

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neuronbob

Mike, I knew there was a reason we let you stay on this forum.

A big SUV is probably not the way to go, but someone will definitely buy it. Remember that the Pilot (on which the MDX is based) is is due for a FMC next model year, so perhaps it will be larger as well? Who knows.

Thanks for the info.

kirbyflorida

Time will tell, only funny thing here is Honda NEVER announces stuff like the V-8 in advance. I can see a leak but no one has seen any test cars. With gas going to $4 ( I hate oil companies) and Honda leasing the FCX, v-8 just does not fit. If they made a v-8,I am sure it would be one of the best in the world .
Let's keep our ears open.
We do know that Honda is building a new diesel motor plant.

lland

Isn't it the other way around? The Pilot is based on the previous generation MDX. I'd guess when redesigned, it will use the new MDX platform.

LL

Mike_TX

Let me reiterate that he told me the Honda rep wouldn't tell him when this stuff might show up, so it could be a few years out for all I know. But since Honda execs have now admitted to the existence of the V-8, it's no longer really a a secret.

I mentioned diesel to him, and he acknowledged Honda's 4-cyl, but said he hasn't heard of any plans to put a diesel in an Acura. As for the price of gasoline being a factor, he said expensive gas doesn't seem to faze Americans, and he even doubted we'd change our driving habits if it went to $6. But we both agreed oil is artificially inflated right now, and will go back down before long.

The bottom line for him was that a 5-car lineup is too thin, and having a sixth vehicle to sell will help him, no matter what it is.

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Mike_TX

Oh! One other thing:

I failed to mention that he made reference to a coupe. Said they hinted it will be either a coupe or convertible, but wouldn't even say which car it will be based on.

(If I had to guess, I'd bet on a TSX or TL, possibly based on the Accord coupe [?] )

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black label

When I posted this info in August, no one wanted to listen. Most of the corporate rumors were basing both a coupe and a convertible on the TSX platform.

I believe the response I got was welcome to 4 years ago.

It looks like my info is ahead of the curve.

White92

You and me both. I guess it's always funner to speculate than to listen to people in the know.

I'm assuming this meeting referenced in the first post is the same one where they were told coming by 2010 (the calender year, not the model year.) that the new RL replacement will finally be up there with the LS, etc.... The NSX replacement that won't be called NSX, but something else that is alphanumeric. The new SUV that will be a true full size. And of course the TSX and the TL that we all know we are getting next year. The TSX in April and the TL sometime in the fall of 2008.

kirbyflorida

Well my tech told me the s2000 is coming to Acura in some shape or form, will not be the s2000, this would fit with your convertible info though. Acura want the S in the first place.
That V-8 could be a while, I am not sure about their assessment of Americans and gasoline, Honda is the mileage leader in the states and proud of it, they are very green. If you look where gas is more expensive than the US you will see Diesel is the motor of choice, V-8's would be a very small percentage of the market, low sales for big investment dollars.

black label

Your are right that they are one of the greenest (if not the greenest) car companies out there. The problem is perception. People think Acura doesn't care because we don't have a hybrid. What they miss is that Acura doesn't need a hybrid, they have CAFE leading averages on straight dino fuel.

If Toyota wants to make the Tundra, they need they Prius to average things out.

The S2000 theory is one that I buy into. Something to compete with a Z4.

neuronbob

I just wanted to also thank White92 and black label for providing their past information. Their information was really ahead of the curve when originally posted.

2008 promises to be exciting for Acura.

CL6

Sizzle sells, Acura doesn't have it right now. Simple really.

At least at the SF Auto show they put Acura next to the luxury brands and not with Honda and their lawnmowers.

Not enough to keep me there tho.

VTEC Racer

If the RL moves up a level, then what will take its place in the mid-level luxury class? I hope not the TL. Acura is doing fine with the TSX and TL where they are right now. I hope they just keep the RL where it is and just introduce a whole new car with another name. A full size SUV will be nice I'm sure. This rumor was also mentioned on TOV. According to them, it is supposed to be the NSX of SUV's. A full size SUV is a good way to attract the big-dollar spenders who would normally spend money on a GL, Range Rover, QX or LX. They aren't the highest volume sellers but they can help to increase brand perception. A V8 NSX replacement isn't bad as long as it is willing to perform. Now what to do with the V10 that has already had tons of money poured into it? I say make an ADDITIONAL sports car and call it the NSX. Make it a TRUE NSX replacement. A new coupe or convertible? Ummm... how about one of each? Acura wants to go more upscale and if they want to do that they need both. Acura needs to realize that just because they don't see a car as being a big seller, the halo of that car can increase the sales of OTHER Acura models (aka NSX halo attracting people to the showroom).

With all this said, I hope Acura FINALLY develops their OWN platform for some of their cars. It doesn't help when the entire lineup (minus RDX) is based on the same chassis that the Accord is based off of.

White92

From what they are telling us, from now until 2010 will be a very cool time for Acura.

Rexorg

What is Acura thinking? A big SUV with prices for premium gas going to $3.75-$4.00 in a couple of months, if not sooner!? That's not taking into account that the economy is getting close to a recession. No, Acura needs to be thinking more fuel efficient with vehicles that burn regular gas.

Mike_TX

Don't be sucked in - there is no recession when the unemployment rate is 4%. That's just the fear mongers trying to stir up confusion.

SUV's account for 25% of total vehicle sales in the U.S., and more than 2,000,000 of them were sold in the first 6 months of 2007 alone. People aren't REALLY afraid of high-priced gas ... at least not enough to stop buying SUV's!

And BTW - retail sales for Black Friday were up 8-9% over last year, so people are still pretty upbeat about the economy.

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thevikas87

iTrader: (2)

i dont care what they do, as long as they come out with some nice shit to keep up with lexus..i hate how acuras being left in the dust

Rexorg

I don't listen to fear mongers. I look at my stock portfolio and it is going to the dogs since October. RV sales are down, which always indicate a recession, and Citigroup just had to borrow $7,900,000,000.00 from Abu Dabai @ 11% to remain solvent. Things do not look good my friend despite low unemployment.

Mike_TX

We're off-topic with this, but I have to point out that both your stock portfolio and the Citigroup thing are the result of the same thing - the sub-prime mortgage debacle. Some bankers got greedy and made what can only be considered bad loans to people who couldn't afford their houses, and now they're paying the piper.

And RV sales are down because that same market finances them (along with mobile homes, lake houses and similar property). The stock market is a herd of sheep, and they freak when anything like this happens, but it'll pop back.

IOW, what you're citing is a minor crisis for the banking industry (or at least that part that participated in the poor lending practices), but it's hardly an indictment of the whole economy. All other indicators are up: unemployment at historical lows, job creation strong, investment /new business creation high, nat'l debt getting paid off ahead of schedule, retail sales on Black Friday up 8-9% over last year, etc., etc. This is just a bump in the road, and everything will be fine.

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ddswv

The problem with the unemployment rate statistics is that the rate does not include those that are no longer receiving unemployment benefits.

The rate would be more realistic if it included those that are unemployed, not just the one's receiving unemployment benefits.

We are always being told about how many new jobs there has been created.

How many of those new jobs were actual American jobs based in the United States?

Many of those new jobs that we are constantly being told about are jobs based in foreign countries for American companies that are shown as new American jobs on the statistics.

No offense, just the other side of looking at the statistics.

kirbyflorida

Gasoline supplies are up, people are using less gas, they are cutting back, not enough yet but I believe people will be buying cars with better economy, this will take some to see the total impact, they will not just go and buy a new car tomorrow. People are spending about $2500 per car per year right now on gasoline, as that goes up to $3000 to $4000 per car, this will (IMO) change the way they drive and what cars they buy. If they have an SUV that gets 15 mpg overall that is about $3000 per year now, that will have an impact, and if gas goes to $4 per gallon at 13000 miles per year, that at 15 mpg is $3500, ouch.

Mike_TX

These statistics have always been done the same way they are today, so improvements are improvements.

But more importantly, I just prefer to see the glass as half full instead of half empty, and I do not believe the sky is falling. Fifteen years ago, it was the tech sector killing us - today it's the banks. It's always something.

Let's get out there and buy cars and help the economy!

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Chas2

Economics aside, this is all very interesting speculation, and whatever happens, I only hope Acura does it right this time, or at least in the eyes of the consumer.

As an RL owner, I think they did it pretty darn well, but with sales in the 300s per month, obviously not many others do. I don't know if Honda can continue to sustain seemingly huge financial hits like this. The RL must have been a very expensive proposition, and I wonder if they broke even on it.

Regardless, it does seem like the next year will start to bring some exciting changes!

Mike_TX

You're probably right, Chas, but I've now gone back to my original prediction on when the V-8 will show up in the RL. I'm back to thinking we'll get a V-6 next year, and the V-8 won't show up until the FMC for 2010. The 3.7-liter could still show up at some point, but I'm not sure when.

Here's something to ponder - If you're Honda, and you have a new chassis in the wings for a bigger 2010 3G RL, AND you have a sinking ship 2G that has 2 more model years to go, would you consider speeding up the release of that bigger chassis so you could stick a stretched body on it to help rescue the 2G RL? Seems plausible ... a long-wheelbase RL.

And assuming you did so, would you go ahead and shoot your wad by putting the V-8 in it now? Or would you split the difference and keep the existing drivetrain and save the new engine for the big full model change in 2010?

I'll bet Honda execs have sat around big tables in Japan and America considering these same alternatives, and my guess is that they have decided not to go all the way. Why? Because it will take some of the luster off the 2010 FMC, and because the well has been poisoned enough for the 2G RL that these extra expenditures probably wouldn't make a huge sales difference anyway.

In other words, I'll bet they save the good stuff (new engines, 6spd transmission, etc.) for 2010 when they bring out a whole new, redesigned RL that distances itself from the 2G in all respects. And to be honest, that's what I'd do if I were on the board.

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GoHawks

I personally think the V8 has to come sooner versus later. If you introduce a new model and it still just offers a V6, you're going to elicit a yawn from people who are superficially looking at the car. Let's face it, if people were really looking at the car for what it's worth, the RL would be selling better.

Let's see, the biggest complaint is that it needs more room. If you look at the interior dimensions of the Lexus GS, Infiniti M, they are statistically identical for just about every dimension.

Yet you don't hear those complaints about those cars.

Let's face it, people are buying a badge. Acura is going to have to do something big, like Lexus did when they introduced the LS back in the beginning.

You got MB content, with Japanese reliability at a bargain basement price. Acura is going to have to do the same.

JeffS

I don't think this is a good idea as it doesn't allow any of the models to grow if you keep them in the same size and price range. They, along with the Accord, already are to closely spaced in size and price. They need to move the Acura up to stay out of Honda's way. They ran into the same issue with the MDX and Pilot and that's why they MDX moved up in price, style and content.

SpicyMikey

I agree, the legroom argument always makes me laugh. Also the trunk size complaint. Have you looked in the trunk of a GS or E350. It's no bigger. In fact, I think it might be smaller. The RL has been beat up so bad that nothing it does or has is any good anymore. That's the perception.

Also agree it needs the v8 out of the gate but I'm afraid that may not happen. If they are about to deploy an entirely new engine in 7 months (not only for the RL but the entire Honda company!), I'd think that would have leaked out by now and we'd see some test mules, etc. Don't you agree?

CL6

Trunk
RL ~ 13.1
GS ~ 12.7
E ~ 15.9
Rear Legroom
RL ~ 36.6
GS ~ 36.4
E ~ 35.6

neuronbob

Yet again.....Acura's lack of marketing of the RL is what killed it. These rear legroom and trunk measurements are yet another example of missed opportunities.

Any case...still enjoying mine and the exclusivity that goes along with owning an RL.

phile

SUV eh? Return of the SLX!