sufall96

I got my latest issue of Motortrend two days ago and the RL placed 2nd right behind the new Infiniti M35. It beat out the BMW 530 which was 3rd the new Audi A6 3.2 Quatrro was 4th the Cadillac STS V6 was fifth and the Jaguar S-Type 3.0 was in 6th place. I think in this arena of cars 2nd place ain't half bad. It's more than good especially considering the previous model wouldn't have been even considered in this lineup. Maybe with the 3rd G RL Acura will finally get a 1st place. Anyway good job RL.

PS I'm hoping the same for the 4th G TL. We need a 1st place under our belt. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place is getting old. PLEASE GET RID OF FWD!!!!!!!!!

rets

Good to know. Thanks.

8-)

Apples for some, oranges for others. I was looking for fwd when I recently bought. This took a lot of other quality cars out of the equation. The fact that the RL is awd was all I needed to open up the wallet to buy it instead of the TL.

Weather conditions here make fwd/awd more desirable FOR ME. Can't speak for anybody else. If I lived where the weather was better I might be on the same rwd soapbox.

I don't mean to be disagreeable, I just want you to know that there really are others that don't want rwd, for whatever reason.

Karl_in_Chicago

I'm in the same boat as you. Chicago is just like Philly . . . well, for weather anyway, not so much for sports teams.

I just struck a deal yesterday to trade in my Volvo cross-country for a new RL. My winter car MUST have AWD - so the short list was pretty short. I would have liked to have shopped the STS but when Caddy decided that AWD is only available on the ne plus ultra setup, north of $60K, they quickly fell out. Pretty much all that was left was the RL, the new A6, and the impending M35awd. Had the RL been RWD it would have been off my list.

Hou-RL

I'm sure that everyone wants 1st place but I must admit that the RL wasn't even in 10th place not long ago. Since the '05 RL has come on the market it has definately made the other manufacturers wake up and take notice. That alone is enough to celebrate. I beleive that time will tell the real story of which car is the real winner. Look at the sales during at the end of the year and perhaps you will see the real difference.

BTW.. I looked athe BMW 530 (replace the current 5 series) and the Audi 3.2 Quattro and neither could convince me that they had what it takes to pull the trigger. The Germans just are not moving me at this time. Far too many electrical and computer issues (excluding Porsche) for me to deal with. I really dont like going to the dealer all of the time. I have better things to do with my time.

Rob L

If the RL was RWD I wold never have got one so I am glad it is AWD.

As for a car finsihing in first place. Who really cares? Just because a few people (remember, in comparos not everyone agrees on the order but they come to a decision I guess) like one car over the other means jackshit to me.

legendguy

I look forward to seeing the article (anyone got a scan?) but will have to see what criteria they placed importance on. If those things are not on my priority than 2nd place is OK. Otherwise, Acura should work harder to place #1!! I noticed that Motor Trend did a comparo between the new STS and 545i. Unfortunately no one is going to include the RL in any comparos with certain sports-luxury comparos because of the V6. How much gas mileage would Acura have had to give up and how much additional cost to go with a V8 I wonder?

Karl_in_Chicago

As Honda/Acura has no V-8 engine to draw from, I suspect it would have been phenomenally expensive to develop one just for the RL (esp. with ~20K/year projected sales volume). Also, that's one tight engine compartment - it would be quite a challenge to fit a V-8 in there (though I do pause at the thought of an LS2 being dropped in - maybe we can get Jesse James to try such a mod in a future Monster Garage).

I'm in the camp of 'who cares?' on the relative rankings in some mag's comparo. 1st vs. 2nd isn't the big deal, it's being ranked in the top vs. the bottom that indicates the car is well thought of.

neuronbob

Looks like they really liked the RL. Hopefully the AWD will move down the line to the TL soon. I agree with 8-) in that RWD simply doesn't work for me even with electronic stability controls here in Cleveland. It had to be FWD or AWD for me.

sufall96

Even though RWD cars are really fun and handle really well I didn't say it had to be RWD. Just not FWD. I would take an AWD over a FWD anyday. Of course that's with enough of power to compensate for the weight difference. If the weight is not compensated for then I may settle for a FWD like I did on the TL.

sufall96

They did like the RL and in the closing summary they did say it was barely 2nd place with indications of almost making 1st.

EZZ

They also neglected to equip the M35 with the sport package which adds active rear steering to significantly improve handling. The price would then make it more comparable to the RL (although still significantly less). IMHO, this was kind of a silly test. At one spectrum, you have a $56k BMW 530 and the other, a sparsely equipped M35 that only costs $42k.

Incendiary

I couldn't tell if they were saying it made 2nd place barely up from 3rd or barely down from 1st...

Incendiary

I understand the desire for AWD in snowier climes, but luxury cars should, IMO, never offer FWD as a sole option, unless it's a tiny car. Then NA 4-bangers and FWD is okay, like on the RSX (or A3, 1-series, A-class, etc.). But since Acura/Honda will likely never switch to RWD-based setups, they should at least take the tack of Audi and go FWD/AWD for all of their larger cars. FWD is more of an economy car drivetrain... Looks like they're moving in the right direction, though.

Rob L

They also neglected to include the AWD option on the M35 which would have made it more comparable to the RL. Screw the sports package on the M35...if you want it the most comparable to the RL you compare the M35x with features as it is closer in price and is a more apples to roanges comparo.

You are right, it was a silly test. Would have been nice to load up features on the M35 and watch its weight go up a teense and its price. Car comparisons in magazines in general are silly.

I want a mag to test the RL with the 18" wheel/performance tire combo and see what numbers it whips out then.

hemants

I think the best of all worlds will be a hybrid that has the engine power one set of wheels and the battery another.

No differential losses and 50 mpg!!!

I believe the RX400 is going to test this method, others will surely follow!!!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

So does anyone have scans of the article that they can post up. I'm interested in reading the article to see the editors' commentary.

dseag2

Here's a link to the article, scanned by someone in ClubLexus.

http://people.clemson.edu/~davidw/Luxo%20all.jpg

Rob L

I could just see the talk at clublexus...."look at that RL, it came in 2nd. Piece of junk. The M rules!"

That is until the GS streets and then suddenly the M won't be the darling there at CL that it is now...especially if/when the GS is shown to be not as good a performing car as the M

I like how close the RL was in the figure 8 to the sport packaged BMW and better tire equipped M35...they are basically dead even.

I also like the engine RPM in top gear at 60mph.

Got to also like how the RL had the best fuel economy in that comparo

I don't think the whopping 4 extra feet in the braking distance is all that big a deal but the fact is, it was last in braking.

Funny how people could see that test and not be impressed with the RL. Oh well, their loss...I still think if they woudl go drive the car they'd like it but I guess being ignorant to it is much better than being informed.

Senneca01

I think that they meant, the RL came in 2nd place barely. Meaning it was close to 3rd place, but it edged out the 530i.

dseag2

I don't think so, because when you read the comment in the context of the paragraph they stated specifically that "several staffers preferred the RL's blend of luxury and performance". That means some preferred the M and some preferred the RL, so the RL placed 2nd, barely behind the M. Not 2nd, barely in front of the 530, because nothing was stated about any of the staffers preferring the BMW.

SPUDMTN

My understanding is that it was barely second, by means of being closer to third than first. Take note: "Several staffers preferred the RL's blend of luxury and performance, but others felt it lacks the visceral immdiacy and tactile feedback to the sterring, throttle, and brakes that are hallmarks of a true driver's car. Second place--but barely."

In otherwords, the blend was great, but it was almost nudged to third becuase it's not as much of a driver's car. That's how I'm interpreting it.

Rob L

I first took it to mean it barely lost out on 1st place but then re-reading it I came to the conclusion they meant it barely was 2nd over the 530. The reason I think this is because after they talk about the RL they gush over the M saying it has all the positives of the RL plus better steering, quicker and all that jazz.

All I know is it is a useless comparison as are all MT comparos. They need to use a point score thing like R&T does where both objective and subjective points/categories are used...or jus scrap comparos entirely. What purpose do they serve? I mean look at this one...You hardly get any info of the cars from it other than the numbers whihc you can get from any review. They put down 200 words per car and would focus on a certain area ignoring others. Wow.

Dunno what their issue is with the throttle or braking response of the RL. I push the respective pedal and the car either accelerates or it stops....especially with the braking. The brakes grab with even a light push of the brake pedal. If that isn't response I don't know what is.

As for the NAV screen in sunlight...that is a complaint for any nav screen I'd imagine and a simply way to make it easier to read when it is sunny is to get window tint. Speaking of nav screens....based on pics it would appear the M nav screen is angled more than the RL and other screens. Wonder how that does in the sun.

Hou-RL

Do you like your car? Well do you? Enough said, then!!! Those guys get paid to favor this car over that car. The RL had great reviews then it will be something else. Change is inevitable!

vishnus11

looking at the article, i kinda agree with the "electric steering lacks crispness and is on the doughy side" but this is only based upon a short test drive that I had, and maybe it would take some getting used to. I dont agree with the comment about the "exterior looking undistinguished". I loved the M35 initially but the more I look at it the more it looks like a gussied up maxima. Cover the badge on the front and it could be anything. The Acura looks sleek and understated in comparison.

Interesting to note the revs of the Rl and M35 at 60mph in top gear. The Rl is barely spinning, loping along easy at 1750 rpm, whereas the M35 is already whirling at 2500 rpm. My 96 3.2TL only spins at 2200 at 60mph in top gear and it only has 4 gears! I would've though that they would have at least made the top gear in the M35 taller.

Inspite of being more portly (4005lbs) vs the M's (3790lbs) the RL outslalomed the M at 65.5mph vs. 64.4, proof of the effectiveness of the SH-AWD. A M35x weighed down with AWD and other electronic goodies, would have made it more comparable to the RL, and would have adversely affected its performance and handling. RL would have definetely edged it out in thjis case.

All in all, the RL is a great car - the most balanced package out there. Congrats to all of yall who have one

SilverCL225hp

I hope they would do another comparsion involving the same ones except Jaguar X-Type but includes the all new Lexus GS and new E350. X-Type is outdated compared to the others.

BMW 530i - New last year, so only the second year
Lexus GS300 - Totally new this year
Infiniti M35 - Totally new this year
Acura RL - Totally new this year
Mercedes-Benz E350 - Three years old but all new DOHC V6 engine
Audi A6 3.2 Quattro - Totally new this year
Cadillac STS V6 - Totally new this year

DownUnder

Hopefully R&T or C&D will compare all the AWD mid-luxury cars.

EDIT: Did anyone notice the 12.5 compression ratio on the Audi.

8-)

Given that people are paid to write and edit that mag, it's silly that this particular statement was not clear.

Hou-RL

The E350 will have some new features. Removing some of the horrible electronic brakes for one thing, new engine with increased fuel consumption.

BMW 530 will have a new R6 magnesium engine to move the HP up to 255. Powerband will be much better due to increased torque curve. Springs will be stiffer and M Sports package also to be available.

Just saying this to inform you that the Germans realize that they are losing ground in thier market segment for these vehicles. They are doing this ahead of the regular schedule but "tough times call for tough measures".

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Actually, reading that quote in context, it actually means that the RL lost out first place, but just barely. The first part of the statement is stating that the only thing the RL is lacking is the single-minded performance orientation of the first place car, which means that if the RL were more sportingly oriented, it would have won the first place instead of the second.

phile

To me, that quote doesn't appear ambiguous at all. The premise was set up so that "barely" would indeed refer to the characteristics that make up the 1st place winner that the RL lacked.

sufall96

The auto industry does not revolve around the RL. It is a fine car and will probally be my next car depending on the 4th G TL. But anyway the RL is a $50,000 car with a V6. So it basically get in where it fit in. These mag. companies do the comparisons because that's what they are in the business of doing. Testing cars and making comparos is their job. I actually like the comparisons and often look foward to them. Competition is also the reason car companies are all on their toes. So even though all the comparisons for each mag may not come out with the results that I may like, I don't sit back and say this comparo is silly or it's dumb. It sounds like a bunch of kids calling something dumb because things didn't go their way. Just my two cent.

phile

The magazines also get their vehicles from the manufacturers' fleet of cars that they send around for testing. So even if they had requested an M35X, it might not be available to them.

I'm sure someone else will pit these two head to head again when the Lexus rolls out and completes the lineup of new cars to test.

I agree, the tests should not revolve around the RL.

petemc

I've got to defend Rob a bit here.

So often the cars that are tested are mis-matched for one reason or another (typically it is availability of sample vehicles which compare in features/options), which tends to bias the comparison one way or another. Then, those that read the comparison try to judge the cars based solely on the comparison results instead of actually going out and test driving the vehicles.

It can be a bit of a farce at times...I have read comparisons where the performance between vehicles was so close that the only significant differences were in the subjective categories. Car & Driver often includes "fun to drive" or "gotta have it" factors, which at times seem to be there to allow the editors to promote their favorite vehicles up in position.

I agree that the comparisons are useful, but (IMO) they should only be used as a guide to which vehicle attracts you, and not be used to determine which is a better car. The only real way to judge one car against another is to select the options that you want, then compare how they drive, how they meet your requirements and what it is going to cost you.

Rob is suggesting that if you were to compare the vehicles this way, that the results might have been different....but I guess we'll never know

Pete

MaxBuck

Some of the discussions about which cars "should be" compared to others I find bemusing. In my case, I would not consider the BMW 530i; just not enough there to justify its price premium above the excellent TL, with which I believe it most closely compares. On the other hand, the 545i is a completely different car (to me); that V8 engine changes everything, along with the added standard equipment. I am comparing the 545i to the RL, and that is likely to be my final decision (assuming I don't go whole hog on the 7er BMW). 545 has better and more exciting driving dynamics; RL is more luxurious and almost certainly more reliable.

Bottom line is that I think lots of drivers compare different models of vehicle when choosing. The fact that I do not include the Infinitis in my comparison doesn't depreciate that line; I simply do not like Nissans.

By the way, I completely agree with petemc's comment about how auto journalists cannot define the "best car." The best car for me might not be for my neighbor.

sufall96

I agree with you and "petemc", but whatever the car mags. results are basically is their interpretation. It doesen't mean it's law. You take their results, observe them, and make your own judgement.

Rob L

Never said the industry revolves around the RL nor has ANYONE here. Way to pull that out of nowhere.

Anyway, the comaprisons are STUPID. How hard is it to see they are dumb?

What good is a comparison where they have 100-200 words on each car and talk about nothing...then they list the test results and the conclusion. WOW. Look at that MT comparo....you get pretty much nothing from it.

I dont give a shit if the RL doesnt win a comparo. Read my first f'ing post where I said I didn't care and wondered why people care.

I call comparos stupid because they are stupid. If they actually put more time into them and gave a DETAILED write-up then they would have more value. RT comparos are far better than MT comparos since at least they have a rating system rather than a tiny paragraph on each car and then bam, a conclusion that not always goes wiht the little write-ups. All most of these comparos do is give the number whores the chance to see the numbers and spout off on which car is better simply because of what does 0-60 or the 1/4 mile the best. Why didn't MT include sound levels in this comparo? Nah couldn't do that...I suppose what idiot who is buying a 50K LUXURY car cares if the car is quiet or not.

I think one is more child like if they find these simple comparisons so valuable...I could get an 8th grader to whip up a better comparison than what these mags do.

I can only guess they dont go more in depth because the avg car mag reader doesnt have the attention span or desire or intelligence to read 15+ pages...

I also think it is bullshit that car mags cant get a specific set up model from car companies and that excuse is given for how there are cars in a comparo across the board in feature set and price. You trying to tell me if MT or C&D asks so and so company for a car with specific features they will say no? Riiiiight. They already know many look at comparos like the gospel.

I gave up putting value into comparisons about 4 years ago when I realized how useless and illogical they were...sorry for me having my own opinion and thinking comparisons mean jackshit.

Rob L

Funny that the guy basically saying it doesn't matter what the conclusions of the comapros are started the thread with this post.

I (or others who think comparos are silly) get called a child because I/we think how comparisons are done is silly and not in depth yet I am not going on how Acura needs to ditch a proven platform simply because they don't have a #1 under their belt. Okaaaaaay

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I think that perhaps the magazines need to make clear that their comparisons are just that, strictly for comparison's sake. They don't really prove anything because unless you get exactly equivalent vehicles with near identical equipment fittings, there will always be some sort of bias in the results.

Of course, the readers of said articles also need to be intelligent enough not to accept the writings as gospel. They are a guideline. If anything, the comparison indicates that all six cars are worthy of a look and that none of them stand out as being particularly bad, just that they tend to each veer towards something different in their philosophies.

Incendiary

I was going to buy an RL, but now that MT says the M35 base is best, that's what I'm getting.