Motor Oil?
Motor Oil?
Cruisin'
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Central NJ
Trending Topics
Missing my
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 22
From: Discovery Bay, CA
RL owner
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 711
Likes: 13
do not use syn use Honda oil in the bottle as it says on the cap. if you cant get that use Mobil 1 or Valvoline.
Please people read your manual only put what it says don't change it around it for your own good!!
Please people read your manual only put what it says don't change it around it for your own good!!
Last edited by rtr; May 17, 2011 at 12:05 AM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 182
There have been many threads over the years regarding "which oil" but I have never heard of anyone having a problem with any of the oils available. You can spend whatever you want, buy whatever grade, use syn or dynosaur, change it at 3k or 10k and it really doesn't matter. You engine will outlast your ownership. The cost of the oil and the frequency of the oil changes is only to make you feel good.
If any of us RL owners have ever had the engine seize please notify this forum.
If, however, you frequently race your engine to 18000 RPM then I would use Honda's advice and use synthetic.
If any of us RL owners have ever had the engine seize please notify this forum.
If, however, you frequently race your engine to 18000 RPM then I would use Honda's advice and use synthetic.
RL owner
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 711
Likes: 13
Just so you guys know there is no real Honda or Acura dealer in northamerica. So because of that you can not trust them as people to take care of your car but just to be a middle man between. You need to watch them like a hawk so they don't #uck up your ride!!
I use Mobil 1 Synthetic 0-30W oil. Very happy with it.
I would like to see a real scientific study that proves that synthetic oil is not good for my 2006 RL, OR that the generic, cheap oil the Acura/Honda dealer uses is better than Mobil 1 or Amsoil synthetic.
I would like to see a real scientific study that proves that synthetic oil is not good for my 2006 RL, OR that the generic, cheap oil the Acura/Honda dealer uses is better than Mobil 1 or Amsoil synthetic.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,334
Likes: 218
From: Indiana
When I had my 2006 RL I used Mobil 1 5w20 (which I always provided myself) from the very first oil change. The dealer that I frequent now stocks Mobil 1 for customers who choose to go synthetic. I plan to use Mobil in my TL as well.
they should give you a discount lolas far as stocking it, you really only need a case of it stocked roughly (12 quarts), since that will cover at least 2 oil changes, and normally it is only a phone call away, if you run out of it
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,258
Likes: 88
From: NY
I use whatever the dealer puts in ($40 oil change and free car wash). That keeps me under the warranty and I require nothing more.
No point in using synthetic if it's not the default oil. Now if you told me using synthetic is going to give me better gas mileage or 50hp...yea, I'm there.
No point in using synthetic if it's not the default oil. Now if you told me using synthetic is going to give me better gas mileage or 50hp...yea, I'm there.
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,897
Likes: 7,251
From: Austin, TX
The point in using synthetic is 2 fold, and hear me out.
1) There aren't the impurities in synthetic like there are in conventional oil. Conventional oil uses impurities, including wax, sulfur, and asphaltic materials, that make up for inconsistencies in the molecules and keep the oil viscous across the whole temperature range of the oil. The molecules in synthetic oil have been synthesized to be uniform throughout, and in turn, they are able to withstand a larger temperature range with out breaking down or changing viscosity.
2) Synthetic oils can withstand MUCH more extreme temperatures than conventional. 0w-30 synthetic can pump and flow at -60 deg F. At this temperature, conventional oil would be frozen. In fact, there isn't a conventional oil that will acheive a 0 weight grade. Mobile claims their oil can withstand temperatures in excess of 400 deg F. NASCAR racers have proven synthetics to reliably withstand 290 deg F for prolonged periods while most racers would be uncomfortable pushing conventional past 270 deg F.
So now the discussion becomes this: 1) Will any of us here use our engines for so long that the build up of impurities, mainly wax, will cause engine failure? And, 2) will any of us here run our engines for a prolonged period of time in extreme heat such that conventional oil will breakdown and cause wear on our engines?
The answer to both of the questions is almost always going to be NO! Something else will surely fail before the impurity buildup causes the engine to fail, and I don't think anyone here does the Baja 500 in their RL or drives in circles at 100+ through Death Valley during peak temps.
However, I like to have peace of mind that I am not putting sulfur, asphaltic material or WAX in my engine so that if I do keep my cooling system in check, my vacuum system in check, and my transmission intact, my RL may reach a million miles. I also like to have peace of mind that if I do decide to drive to Houston in the middle of August and it reaches 113 deg, which it does here, that I can run 90+ for three hours with no wear on my engine.
I honestly don't think that if you run conventional you are hurting your car. On the other hand, I also don't think if you are running synthetic you are hurting your car. Almost all of the wear you will put on your engine occurs at start up. As long as you keep a winter weight that will flow at the temperature you are starting your car, you will be fine.
If you think it is not worth the extra $$$, think about this. Synthetic lasts 50-100% longer than conventional depending on your conditions. Less changes + more $ = same cost (roughly).
One last note, you should never change back to conventional after going synthetic. One reason I chose synthetic is that I have no clue what the previous owner put in. With the above reasons and this possibility combined, I chose to go the synthetic route.
Still, you should not take my or anyone else's word for it here. Check your sources and research it a little. If you find something contradictory to what I have said here, please post it. I would love to learn everything I can about what I am putting in my car.
1) There aren't the impurities in synthetic like there are in conventional oil. Conventional oil uses impurities, including wax, sulfur, and asphaltic materials, that make up for inconsistencies in the molecules and keep the oil viscous across the whole temperature range of the oil. The molecules in synthetic oil have been synthesized to be uniform throughout, and in turn, they are able to withstand a larger temperature range with out breaking down or changing viscosity.
2) Synthetic oils can withstand MUCH more extreme temperatures than conventional. 0w-30 synthetic can pump and flow at -60 deg F. At this temperature, conventional oil would be frozen. In fact, there isn't a conventional oil that will acheive a 0 weight grade. Mobile claims their oil can withstand temperatures in excess of 400 deg F. NASCAR racers have proven synthetics to reliably withstand 290 deg F for prolonged periods while most racers would be uncomfortable pushing conventional past 270 deg F.
So now the discussion becomes this: 1) Will any of us here use our engines for so long that the build up of impurities, mainly wax, will cause engine failure? And, 2) will any of us here run our engines for a prolonged period of time in extreme heat such that conventional oil will breakdown and cause wear on our engines?
The answer to both of the questions is almost always going to be NO! Something else will surely fail before the impurity buildup causes the engine to fail, and I don't think anyone here does the Baja 500 in their RL or drives in circles at 100+ through Death Valley during peak temps.
However, I like to have peace of mind that I am not putting sulfur, asphaltic material or WAX in my engine so that if I do keep my cooling system in check, my vacuum system in check, and my transmission intact, my RL may reach a million miles. I also like to have peace of mind that if I do decide to drive to Houston in the middle of August and it reaches 113 deg, which it does here, that I can run 90+ for three hours with no wear on my engine.
I honestly don't think that if you run conventional you are hurting your car. On the other hand, I also don't think if you are running synthetic you are hurting your car. Almost all of the wear you will put on your engine occurs at start up. As long as you keep a winter weight that will flow at the temperature you are starting your car, you will be fine.
If you think it is not worth the extra $$$, think about this. Synthetic lasts 50-100% longer than conventional depending on your conditions. Less changes + more $ = same cost (roughly).
One last note, you should never change back to conventional after going synthetic. One reason I chose synthetic is that I have no clue what the previous owner put in. With the above reasons and this possibility combined, I chose to go the synthetic route.
Still, you should not take my or anyone else's word for it here. Check your sources and research it a little. If you find something contradictory to what I have said here, please post it. I would love to learn everything I can about what I am putting in my car.
Missing my
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 22
From: Discovery Bay, CA
Good info on this website. I'm not sure why someone would, but apparently it is okay to switch between synthetic and dino.
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Mobile 1 and Mobile filters here. Synthetic from day one since I was unsure of the type used by the previous owner (although I believe it was always serviced at the dealer then). Mobile 1 filters after reading some different sites that they were better than Fram because they don't use cardboard parts inside. That could be true, not sure, but couldn't find bad reviews on the Mobile 1 filters. Plus, I live 1/2 mile from Advance Auto, and they often run deals (as they are now) for $32.99 for five quarts of Mobile 1 and a free filter (they are normally $12).
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,897
Likes: 7,251
From: Austin, TX
Thanks for the info. That's good to know. I wasn't saying you shouldn't trust the information here, but that you shouldn't trust everything you read or hear. Too many times people believe teachers, textbooks, reporters, and authors while assuming that they have to be right or they wouldn't be allowed to say what they are saying. I have seen all of them be wrong at least once in my short life, and if I have learned anything from learning, it's to not take someone's word for it because they are "supposed" to know. Look it up your self. Cross check your sources. Keep people honest, and you will be smarter in the end.
By the way, I think there are many very knowledgeable people here with a plethora of valuable information on cars. There is a ton of good info on this site.
By the way, I think there are many very knowledgeable people here with a plethora of valuable information on cars. There is a ton of good info on this site.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 182
Mobile 1 and Mobile filters here. Synthetic from day one since I was unsure of the type used by the previous owner (although I believe it was always serviced at the dealer then). Mobile 1 filters after reading some different sites that they were better than Fram because they don't use cardboard parts inside. That could be true, not sure, but couldn't find bad reviews on the Mobile 1 filters. Plus, I live 1/2 mile from Advance Auto, and they often run deals (as they are now) for $32.99 for five quarts of Mobile 1 and a free filter (they are normally $12).
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,258
Likes: 88
From: NY
Mobile 1 and Mobile filters here. Synthetic from day one since I was unsure of the type used by the previous owner (although I believe it was always serviced at the dealer then). Mobile 1 filters after reading some different sites that they were better than Fram because they don't use cardboard parts inside. That could be true, not sure, but couldn't find bad reviews on the Mobile 1 filters. Plus, I live 1/2 mile from Advance Auto, and they often run deals (as they are now) for $32.99 for five quarts of Mobile 1 and a free filter (they are normally $12).
Missing my
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 22
From: Discovery Bay, CA
What?! Walmart sells a 5 quart jug for $27! And the Bay Area is one of the most expensive places to live in the country.
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,897
Likes: 7,251
From: Austin, TX
Did this thesis shed light on the qualities past 7500 mi or buildup of impurities over 200k mi? Or was that outside the scope of his study? That sounds like a very interesting paper. Does he have it published somewhere?
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,386
Likes: 84
I use whatever the dealer puts in ($40 oil change and free car wash). That keeps me under the warranty and I require nothing more.
No point in using synthetic if it's not the default oil. Now if you told me using synthetic is going to give me better gas mileage or 50hp...yea, I'm there.
No point in using synthetic if it's not the default oil. Now if you told me using synthetic is going to give me better gas mileage or 50hp...yea, I'm there.
Missing my
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 22
From: Discovery Bay, CA
Ohhh! I think he and I both meant the parts alone were what cost $27 and $32. Walmart just charged me $55 for an oil change and I was able to grab the oil and filter off the shelf. Usually I do it myself but I haven't had the time lately.
Missing my
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 22
From: Discovery Bay, CA
Part 1: Today's topic seams to be motor oil related. I am a NASA Engineer at
Marshal Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. My field of work is
Tribology which is the study of friction, wear, and lubrication. In our
spare time, our group collects and tests different motor oils using the
Shell Four Ball tester. This tester tests the extreme pressure properties of
oils. These areas in a motor are cam to lifter contacts, valve stem to
guild, and piston skirts. Over the years we have found synthetic bases oils
to out perform mineral based oils by a large margin. We test the oils new,
after 1000 miles, 2000 miles, and up to 10,000 miles. In a nut shell, we
found that synthetic oils have better wear properties after being run 10,000
miles then mineral grade oils new. Which synthetic do we use? First any you
will benefit from any synthetic, but we use Mobil 1. Mobil by far puts more
research dollars in motor oils then any other company. They are also
aggressive in racing. Other notes on motor oils.
Do not run synthetics in a new rebuild. A new engine needs the added
friction allowed by mineral oils to set the rings properly. Chevy found this
out on the corvette. These cars came from the factory with Mobil 1 and
owners brought them back because of smoking and oil consumption (rings did
not seat). Run a good single weight oil for the first 2000 miles. We found
Havaline 30 to be a good mineral oil - in fact we use it for our standard.
The reason Mobil 1 can safely be run for 10,000 miles is because the
additive package is well engineered to isolate grim and hold it in
suspension. This also is why Mobil 1 is expensive. You know - you get what
you pay for.
I know there are a lot of questions on motor oils. You can e-mail me for
more information or search the web for more details on synthetics. Your
Roadster deserves the best - run synthetic oils.
Phil 1966 1600 SPL311-002500 Keep it between the lines and in a four wheel
drift
I have received a lot of comments on oils, so I will try and cover some the
concerns/comments.
I listed multi grade oil break down at 1000 to 2000 miles. This is for the
junk oils found at circle K for a dollar. A good name brand oil will last
3000 miles without too much break down. This is for mineral grade oils -
synthetic oils meet government viscosity tests for ratings without adding
thickeners like polymer chains.
Guys here at work run synthetics in motors that have 140,000 to 170,000
miles on them without any more oil consumption them normal. I believe that
you will get a slight increase in consumption in older motors because the
synthetic are very slippery and can get by old rings easier. In these cases
going to a 15w-50 may help, but this is not a reason not to use synthetics.
Older motors need the extra protection. At running temperature a synthetic
will maintain its viscosity, where a mineral oil viscosity is DRASTICALLY
REDUCED.
A test on how well synthetics work at different temperature can be done in
your home. Get a quart of your favorite mineral oil and a quart of a
synthetic. Put a cup a each oil in a glass or paper cup and stick in the
freezer over night. In the morning try and pour the oils out. Next test: DO
THIS OUTSIDE. On an old camp stove put a ? of the synthetic oil in an old
frying pan and put it on the stove on the highest heat setting. Cook for 30
minutes. Now cook your oil for 30 minutes. At this point you will see why
you cooked the synthetic first. As the oil cooks pour some out to see the
changes in viscosity between the oils.
Part 3 on oil additive coming soon. I need to back to NASA work.
Phil 66 1600 Hey all -
The question of change intervals and synthetic oil has come up. As a side at
work we run oil tests using the Shell Four Ball test rig. This tester was
developed by Shell oil to test the extreme wear properties of motor oils -
cams, piston skirts etc. It consists of three, = inch balls held in a
triangular pattern in a cup with oil heated to 165 degrees. A forth ball is
lowered to the center of the three balls and loaded to 40 KG. The ball is
then rotated 600 RPM for one hour. After the test the wear scar is measured
on the three stationary balls. The bigger the scar the lower the extreme
wear property of the oil is. We use Havoline 30 wt for a base line. We use
this oil because engineers from the past liked this oil, so we have a large
data base.
Looking at data shows new Havoline 30 wt has a wear scar of .0165 inches.
New Mobil 1 has a .0145 inch scar. May not seem like a lot of difference,
but it is. Havoline 30 at 3000 miles has a wear scar of .020 inches and
Mobil 1 at 4000 miles has a .0164 scar. Remember - the bigger the badder.
3000 miles is as long as anyone was willing to run Havoline 30 wt, so its
data stops here. Mobil 1 at 6000 miles is .0167, at 8000 miles is .0188, and
at 10,000 miles is .0194. So, at 10,000 miles Mobil 1 has better lubrication
properties in the critical areas in your motor then a good 30 wt. All
mineral oils follow Havoline pretty close - major brands. Some off brands
have a .020 wear scar new. Multi-grades generally have a larger wear scar as
well. This data was from a 5.0 Ford Mustang. Every motor will be slightly
different, but not much.
So, synthetic can handle long run intervals. But, that is part of the story.
You have contaminates to deal with. This is where the additive package comes
in play. This is the expensive part of oils and the reason synthetics are
high priced. Because of the long run intervals of synthetic, they must have
a vastly superior additive package - and they do. Proof of this is to take
3000 mile dino oil and look at it in a glass jar - then do the same for
Mobil 1. The Mobil 1 will look new compared to the dino oil. I run Mobil 1
in my new cars to the longest manufactures oil change interval - usually
7000 miles. This will keep the warranty happy. In my Roadster I change it
once a year regardless of mileage. It run my Roadster about 5000 miles a
year. Most people at work run synthetics and do the same. We have a bunch of
cars in the lot that have over 200,000 miles on them and going strong. I (my
wife) never keeps one that long.
I run 10w-30 Mobil 1 in my new Roadster motors (after break-in). Older
motors get 15w-50 because the tolerances are larger. Because synthetics
don't thin down like mineral oils do at temperature, I would be careful
running 15w-50 in a motor with a high volume oil pump. By doing so you may
run into cavitation problems - oil gage jumping wildly. Drag racers
experience this often at high RPM. Drop a wt and it will clear up.
I checked the auto parts stores last night and could not find a zero wt
Mobil 1. It was about 2 years ago they were talking introducing this oil, so
apparently they have in some markets. I stand corrected.
Testing another "magic" oil additive today. It looks and smells like linseed
oil! This should be fun. Additives are another subject all together. Another
day, but never tested a good one - none- zip - zero - don't waste your
money.
Sorry for being soo long. I like synthetics (obviously). If you have been to
the conferences, seen all the tests and data, and read the lubrication
journals you would run nothing other then synthetics.
Phil SEROC
Marshal Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. My field of work is
Tribology which is the study of friction, wear, and lubrication. In our
spare time, our group collects and tests different motor oils using the
Shell Four Ball tester. This tester tests the extreme pressure properties of
oils. These areas in a motor are cam to lifter contacts, valve stem to
guild, and piston skirts. Over the years we have found synthetic bases oils
to out perform mineral based oils by a large margin. We test the oils new,
after 1000 miles, 2000 miles, and up to 10,000 miles. In a nut shell, we
found that synthetic oils have better wear properties after being run 10,000
miles then mineral grade oils new. Which synthetic do we use? First any you
will benefit from any synthetic, but we use Mobil 1. Mobil by far puts more
research dollars in motor oils then any other company. They are also
aggressive in racing. Other notes on motor oils.
Do not run synthetics in a new rebuild. A new engine needs the added
friction allowed by mineral oils to set the rings properly. Chevy found this
out on the corvette. These cars came from the factory with Mobil 1 and
owners brought them back because of smoking and oil consumption (rings did
not seat). Run a good single weight oil for the first 2000 miles. We found
Havaline 30 to be a good mineral oil - in fact we use it for our standard.
The reason Mobil 1 can safely be run for 10,000 miles is because the
additive package is well engineered to isolate grim and hold it in
suspension. This also is why Mobil 1 is expensive. You know - you get what
you pay for.
I know there are a lot of questions on motor oils. You can e-mail me for
more information or search the web for more details on synthetics. Your
Roadster deserves the best - run synthetic oils.
Phil 1966 1600 SPL311-002500 Keep it between the lines and in a four wheel
drift
I have received a lot of comments on oils, so I will try and cover some the
concerns/comments.
I listed multi grade oil break down at 1000 to 2000 miles. This is for the
junk oils found at circle K for a dollar. A good name brand oil will last
3000 miles without too much break down. This is for mineral grade oils -
synthetic oils meet government viscosity tests for ratings without adding
thickeners like polymer chains.
Guys here at work run synthetics in motors that have 140,000 to 170,000
miles on them without any more oil consumption them normal. I believe that
you will get a slight increase in consumption in older motors because the
synthetic are very slippery and can get by old rings easier. In these cases
going to a 15w-50 may help, but this is not a reason not to use synthetics.
Older motors need the extra protection. At running temperature a synthetic
will maintain its viscosity, where a mineral oil viscosity is DRASTICALLY
REDUCED.
A test on how well synthetics work at different temperature can be done in
your home. Get a quart of your favorite mineral oil and a quart of a
synthetic. Put a cup a each oil in a glass or paper cup and stick in the
freezer over night. In the morning try and pour the oils out. Next test: DO
THIS OUTSIDE. On an old camp stove put a ? of the synthetic oil in an old
frying pan and put it on the stove on the highest heat setting. Cook for 30
minutes. Now cook your oil for 30 minutes. At this point you will see why
you cooked the synthetic first. As the oil cooks pour some out to see the
changes in viscosity between the oils.
Part 3 on oil additive coming soon. I need to back to NASA work.
Phil 66 1600 Hey all -
The question of change intervals and synthetic oil has come up. As a side at
work we run oil tests using the Shell Four Ball test rig. This tester was
developed by Shell oil to test the extreme wear properties of motor oils -
cams, piston skirts etc. It consists of three, = inch balls held in a
triangular pattern in a cup with oil heated to 165 degrees. A forth ball is
lowered to the center of the three balls and loaded to 40 KG. The ball is
then rotated 600 RPM for one hour. After the test the wear scar is measured
on the three stationary balls. The bigger the scar the lower the extreme
wear property of the oil is. We use Havoline 30 wt for a base line. We use
this oil because engineers from the past liked this oil, so we have a large
data base.
Looking at data shows new Havoline 30 wt has a wear scar of .0165 inches.
New Mobil 1 has a .0145 inch scar. May not seem like a lot of difference,
but it is. Havoline 30 at 3000 miles has a wear scar of .020 inches and
Mobil 1 at 4000 miles has a .0164 scar. Remember - the bigger the badder.
3000 miles is as long as anyone was willing to run Havoline 30 wt, so its
data stops here. Mobil 1 at 6000 miles is .0167, at 8000 miles is .0188, and
at 10,000 miles is .0194. So, at 10,000 miles Mobil 1 has better lubrication
properties in the critical areas in your motor then a good 30 wt. All
mineral oils follow Havoline pretty close - major brands. Some off brands
have a .020 wear scar new. Multi-grades generally have a larger wear scar as
well. This data was from a 5.0 Ford Mustang. Every motor will be slightly
different, but not much.
So, synthetic can handle long run intervals. But, that is part of the story.
You have contaminates to deal with. This is where the additive package comes
in play. This is the expensive part of oils and the reason synthetics are
high priced. Because of the long run intervals of synthetic, they must have
a vastly superior additive package - and they do. Proof of this is to take
3000 mile dino oil and look at it in a glass jar - then do the same for
Mobil 1. The Mobil 1 will look new compared to the dino oil. I run Mobil 1
in my new cars to the longest manufactures oil change interval - usually
7000 miles. This will keep the warranty happy. In my Roadster I change it
once a year regardless of mileage. It run my Roadster about 5000 miles a
year. Most people at work run synthetics and do the same. We have a bunch of
cars in the lot that have over 200,000 miles on them and going strong. I (my
wife) never keeps one that long.
I run 10w-30 Mobil 1 in my new Roadster motors (after break-in). Older
motors get 15w-50 because the tolerances are larger. Because synthetics
don't thin down like mineral oils do at temperature, I would be careful
running 15w-50 in a motor with a high volume oil pump. By doing so you may
run into cavitation problems - oil gage jumping wildly. Drag racers
experience this often at high RPM. Drop a wt and it will clear up.
I checked the auto parts stores last night and could not find a zero wt
Mobil 1. It was about 2 years ago they were talking introducing this oil, so
apparently they have in some markets. I stand corrected.
Testing another "magic" oil additive today. It looks and smells like linseed
oil! This should be fun. Additives are another subject all together. Another
day, but never tested a good one - none- zip - zero - don't waste your
money.
Sorry for being soo long. I like synthetics (obviously). If you have been to
the conferences, seen all the tests and data, and read the lubrication
journals you would run nothing other then synthetics.
Phil SEROC
