coopcoop30

I don't want to get burned for this but I've been thinking of this for a while now. There's nothing wrong with my RL or anything but I was wondering if we have any manual trans options? Don't flame me because it's a luxury sedan or if you wanted a sports car you should've bought one blah blah blah. I think It'll be a decent discussion. The TL has SH-AWD with a six speed. So why couldn't we use something like that. I realize all the electronics and mechanical involvement here but I think it could be possible. If it is let's hear it if not tell me why.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Dont worry coop we all day dream... you can do anything with money.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you're on the right track.

use the SHAWD 6mt and swap it over.
since, you'll be one of the first, you're gonna be met with daunting tasks, such as finding what works and what doesnt.
its very possible.

coopcoop30

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's possible. The TL's engine is similar to ours so why wouldn't it just bolt up? Of course there are other issues like engine management but again the TL ECU may help with that. Might as well burn my engine and trans and swap over the whole TL drive train. I don't think the wife would mind.

db22

On the RL, put it in "M" and use the shifter forwards and backwards to change gear? The only thing that you will be missing is a clutch pedal but you could use a foot pump instead to make it seem like an MT.

I just saved you thousands!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you would have to figure out if the bell housing to the transmission is the same from the RL's 3.5l and the TL's 3.7L.


I had an idea a couple of months ago.
Pick up an abused RL for less than $3k and turbo that motherfucker for around $6k.
I was throwing the idea about swapping the tranny as well.
but these are just my dreams and probably wont come to fruition

coopcoop30

Yeah making sure they match up would require some homework. Where were you finding an RL for 3k? Let me know. I'm going todo some research and see where I can go with this.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^abused RL.
i already have a super mint 2006 6MT TL with 64k miles on it...

i'm looking for an RL that wasnt taken care of. interior beat to shit, an okay body and of course HIGH mileage.

oo7spy

I would use the 3.5L TL-S 6MT, not the 3.7.

OP, the biggest issue I can think of you running into, assuming that adding a clutch isn't a big issue) would be fixing the electronics. The Japanese have been over engineering the Legend since 1991. There is nothing simple about this car, especially the electronics.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

cant.

would render the all wheel drive useless, as the 3.5L TL-S 6mt is front wheel drive only.

I would love to turbo the RL, only because of the AWD.
500hp without losing traction is the business.

coopcoop30

Yea the SH-AWD I don't want to lose. How different could the 3.7 and 3.5 be? But the electronics are probably the biggest issue with this whole idea. Everything else can be machined to work.

Is a turbo on this car really even option?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^the main concern right now, would be to figure out if the bell housings are the same.
if the 3.7 trans can actually hook up to the 3.5 engine.

that would be your number 1 priority right now.


and yes, we turbo J series engines all day every day, albeit front wheel drive cars...
the RL's engine is actually the BEST engine as the cams are highly sought after.
the pistons are highly sought after as well.

on the TL side we have successfully turbo'd several TL's, once into the 500hp range is whne things start to break.
Traction is one thing that we cant have....
our front wheel drive SUCKS and probably isnt a point to boost.

coopcoop30

Not trying to get off topic about the turbo though. But the traction thing would be cleared up with the SH-AWD it seems.

And the bell housings on the 3.5 and 3.7 is where I will start. Nobody take my idea. I want the first manual RL. Haha.

EL19

iTrader: (4)

People didn't think the 6MT from the 2nd gen CLS could go into the 2nd gen TLS but it happened. Then people started making franken J series engines. I'm sure it can be done. You just need the time, money, parts, and technical know-how. I'd just save myself the trouble and buy a 4th gen 6MT TL SHAWD although I love my RL dearly just my

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

if you can compare the two trannies from a parts website, you could probably figure out if the bell housing is the same.

coopcoop30

That was my plan but I'm at work and can't access that website. Always tomorrow.

coopcoop30

The TL SH-AWD is a good looking car. My sister has a 2013 and I've driven it a few times. I like it for what it is. The RL, even my 05, is a better car in every way. Build quality, ride quality (even though it's lowered), look....everything. I'm biased though.

mixwell

subscribed :P

TheStig1

I guess the paddle shifters aren't enough for some.

oo7spy

IMO, the paddle shifters are the most sterile, disconnected way to shift I have ever used. Not having to change throttle position is just strange.

TheStig1

Leave Playstation mode alone!

Yes it is disconnected but this is a luxury car. The .05% of buyers who want that unfortunately have to go to a different platform.

coopcoop30

I agree with 007. The paddle shifters are horrible. They ad absolutely nothing to the car and for me they take away from the car. Everyone has their own idea of what they want in car. For me the thing that I think is missing is a manual transmission option.

Ken1997TL

I've only found paddle shifters useful for engine braking on hills.

06RL/NBP

I also use them for braking on hills.

oo7spy

I used the knob to shift when I did use manual mode, and I used that occasionally. I got used to it, and it isn't/wasn't enough to deter me to a 6MT. However, it just felt weird. Playstation mode is a good description.

coopcoop30

Playstation mode is a fitting description. I do have a 5 speed Accord if I feel like driving manual. But the chance to change my RL to a manual would be nice for me.

coopcoop30

Did a little research today. Here are the pictures of the RL engine and trans assembly and also the TL. Not a lot but moving forward. How similar do you the the engine blocks are? Looks like a lot of common features. Hopefully it's not a generic photo and of course I don't know specs but it's a good place to start.

RL assembly



TL assembly (auto)



TL assembly (manual)



What do you guys think?

wackjum

The paddle shifters don't make up for the biggest deficiency with Honda manumatics: Honda's torque converters just suck. I don't have any figures but I know historically Honda's autos have underperformed more than expected vs their manual brethrens (like the last gen Prelude, 3rd gen TL-S AT vs MT). A lot of that is attributed to power loss through the torque converter.

They also shift really slow.

coopcoop30

The slow shifting does kill us. I'm not to educated on toque converters though so I can't speak much on that. You're right though our autos have always underperformed versus manual transmissions. The shift is now with dual clutch transmissions that out perform manual transmissions. I would be ok with that. haha

wackjum

The torque converter is what allows an automatic transmission to get around the problem of what to do when the tires come to a stop. In a manual, you step on the clutch to disconnect the engine from the tires. If you didn't do this, the engine would stall since it can't keep turning to accommodate the ongoing combustion.

In an automatic where the engine and the wheels are connected 100% of the time, the torque converter is an all fluid connection. Without getting into all of how a torque converter works, let's just say one side is connected to the crankshaft of the engine and then a propeller is sitting inside with an output shaft connected to the transmission. The side that is connected to the engine has aggressive blades and these swirl the ATF fluid that is inside the torque converter. The swirling ATF fluid hits the propeller (which has an output shaft) and spins it too, transmitting power. At very low speeds (like idling at a light), the swirl of the ATF fluid is slow enough the brakes holding the wheels easily overpower this mild current.

You're basically transmitting power through a thick fluid: the ATF that is in the torque converter. The fluid can never transfer 100% of the power through. This is known as "slip." Modern transmissions will lock up the torque converter at higher speeds and form a 100% mechanical connection to improve fuel economy at cruising speed but this does nothing to help power from a standstill.

I can go on and on about Honda's automatics. In a nutshell, they decided a long time ago they would march to the beat of a different drum. Almost all automatics out there use planetary gears. These are sets of gears that lock to one another in different combinations to form different output ratios.

Honda's automatics are closer to how a manual functions. Individual parallel gears with their own clutch packs lock to output shafts. They must have run into some kind of limitation with this approach, which is why it took them forever to get to 6 gears, when other makes have had 7-8 for a while now.

coopcoop30

^^I got you. After I wrote my last post I did a little research on torque converters. It's a lot of information to compute and understand but your explanation helped.