Rob L

Amuses me when some imply Lexus isn't a true luxo brand because of Toyota and those who say the LS is like an oversized Camry are blind, biased or just nuts and I wouldn't want them to be working on me in a hospital. A Camry doesn't come close to an LS in anything but hey, keep thinking that. I guess one who uses that same logic would believe the RL is just an improved Accord with the A on the front, right? Or does it magically change for the car you own? I love my RL and think it is not just a glorified Accord but I know full well it is closer to the Accord than the LS is to a freaking Camry...

Anyway, the original comparo was nice and it is also nice to see other members accept that the LS is in a diff class both in price and luxury and purpose and not get all pissy because another manu's car is superior to the RL/Acura in some areas. As stated, the LS is a luxo sedan built on max comfort first and handling/performance second while the RL is more for handling and luxury/comfort second. My parents have a loaded LS430 and it is a great car and I can only imagine the LS460 is clearly superior in every or almost every way. Having said that, the RL is a great car (my fav car that I have owned, been in) and the 430 and RL are both about equal as each does something better than the other. I prefer to drive the RL more than the 430 but there are occasions where I drive their 430 and it is a nice change to do so and it is not some "boat" as people like to say and is very pleasing to drive. Don't know about you guys but I don't live in an area where I can use my car's max handling all the time so whether a car can destroy a slalom or skidpad is usually meaningless in every day driving on a highway. Also, if I am a passenger I much prefer being in the 430 than the RL.

As others have stated, that nav lockout would annoy me.

kirbyflorida

You make many good points I agree with, however the 430 IS a BOAT, and yes I have driven it, a nice quiet boat, past its' prime but a nice boat. Yes the 460 is also much improved over the 430, no doubt.
Yes the RL is much more of a drivers car, and the LS a straight line quiet cruiser.

CL6

I would never buy a car from a company that thinks it knows how I should operate my car better than I could. Not being able to use navigation is just for starters.

Toyotas and their ilk are nanny cars because of all the things they don't want you to do or don't let you do. Turning off traction control in an IS is another example.

halfaznguy87

ey guys I know the focus here is the RL and LS 460, but I just watched the Top Gear road test of the Jag XF and I'm impressed. Compared to the S-Type the RL easily was the better car, but with this XF I'd say the Jag has the advantage now over the RL. I'm pretty sure the XF will do what the Infiniti M did for Infiniti.

Dang Acura needs to step it up with the RL, they keep coming to the mid-luxo shoot-out with a knife..

Mike_TX

Yeah, I don't know why legroom data isn't noted, but a picture is worth several words, I guess. Here are pictures of the LS460 and RL backseat areas, both taken with the driver's seat adjusted the way I'd have it while driving:





By just getting in and out of both, I can tell you the LS feels much roomier in back than my RL. The distance from the front of my knees to the back of the driver's seat is a good 3 inches or more greater in the LS. Keep in mind actual legroom is also a function of the distance from the rear seatback to the back of the front seats.That is, if your butt is farther back, your knees are going to also be farther back. "Legroom" figures don't always reflect that, since they often measure from the front of the bottom seat cushion.

SpicyMikey - I have considered the 750i, but I'm not thrilled with the BMW nav or traffic setup, and I prefer XM over Sirius radio. Besides that, the body is about to be restyled, and I don't want a "last-year" model. Beyond that, of course, is the minor issue of price. A 750i optioned like the LS will run $8-10k more, and that makes it hard to handle.

CL6 - the traction control can be turned off in the LS, to the extent you can smoke the tires if you're inclined. And BTW, the transmission has Sport, Normal and Snow modes, which is cool.

Others - The LS460 is only a passenger's car? Ummm ... have you actually DRIVEN one?

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CL6

My understanding is the traction control/stability control will still be your nanny while you drive and should you exceed the nanny's idea of what's safe it will turn itself back on.

Perhaps things have changed in the previous few years but this is what I have read (and it applies to Toyota products as well).

lland

If the XF isn't a huge success for Jag, it could be the end of Jag.

LL

CL6

Here is why I dislike Toyota/Lexus:

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...vsc/index.html

http://my.is/forums/f88/vsc-disable-344712/

Stuff like this is absurd and it's like this, from what I understand, across Toyota/Leuxs' entire line-up.

I will never buy a car from a company that thinks it knows better than I how to drive one of its products.

Mike_TX

Toyota/Lexus isn't the only company that doesn't disable stability control. In fact, M-B has been singled out for years by the automotive press for the same thing. And when they put in a switch, the car mag guys found out it doesn't TOTALLY disable it, but instead leaves it on a "little bit".

But, you know ... if you guys are REALLY driving these cars so hard that you need to disable the stability control, and you're doing it on the street, you're nuts. I'm sorry, but you are.

I had an '06 IS350, and I actually tried to invoke the "nanny" (on a deserted road and in a large parking lot), and I damn near turned the car over without it cutting in. IOW, you almost have to be committing suicide before the stability control intervenes in most modern cars, and if things get that bad, I think I'll be glad it's there when the smoke clears.

But of course, that's just me.

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Mike_TX

Oh, there's one exception. My '06 Infiniti M45 nearly got me killed several times because of the traction control.

When you would suddenly jump on the gas from a stop or a slow speed (like trying to break out of a lane of stopped cars, or jump into the only available hole in freeway traffic, etc.), the tires would try to spin and the traction control would just kill power ... and you'd be sitting there half in your lane and half out, like you had a big target painted on your trunk and a sign saying "Hit Me".

That's the only traction control/stability control device I've had that "got in the way".

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VOdoc

Rob, Rob...sticks and stones...I certainly did not intend to offend, only to contribute my own opinions to the discussion.

Biased, yes, and admittedly so, but neither blind nor nuts. Look at the styling cues of the latest Camry and the family resemblance is unmistakable. The Camry really does look like a junior version of the LS. By the same token, look at the styling cues of the latest Accord and the initial visual effect is disturbingly close to the current RL. Infiniti's G and M look very much like the Nissans that birthed them. And so on.

I don't dispute for a moment that $70K buys a lot of car for those who choose to spend that. My own personal sticking point is that I will always view Lexus as being a division of Toyota, just as Acura remains inseparable from Honda. (Many will from now on have a hard time seeing Mercedes-Benz as separate from Chrysler, even after the "divorce"!)

I enjoyed the comparo too.

CL6

In a luxo-LS I wouldn't want to disable it but in a 'performance car' like the IS or the GS I would like to have the option. Same reason you should be able to decide if you wear a motorcycle helmet or not... it's your choice.

As far as I know, with Acura, when you hit 'off' the thing is off.

I might sell MBs but there's none I'd own.

But it goes to the core of Toyota... we know better than you. That's why you can't use the Navi while driving. Not for me.

SpicyMikey

I agree Mike. Maybe it's the age talking, but why would anyone want to turn off something that helps you control the car? If you're looking to have fun then get yourself a second track car for weekends and keep the RL (or whatever) for the daily drive.

Mike_TX

Well, whoever said I'd been sucked into the Lexus vortex was apparently right.

I inked a deal today for a 2008 LS460. It is being shipped in from out-of-state, so it may take a week or more to get here. Both the RL and the MDX were traded in the deal, so I'll be a one-car guy for the first time in years.

Yes, I'll hate the nav lockout. But if they ever change their minds, the HDD-based system can be upgraded. Ditto for any hacks anyone comes up with. But I'll enjoy the 380hp V-8, the air-conditioned seats, the Mark Levinson sound, the power door closers, the better backup cam and proximity sensors, the better ride, etc., etc. So I hope it ends up being a fair trade-off.

If anyone cares, I got the car for almost $7,000 off list, and I got $35,000 each for the RL and the MDX. They also threw in tint and free lifetime car washes. I credit the end-of-month, end-of-year sales push for making this deal happen. It really DOES make a difference.

I'm around here for awhile, and if Bob lets me, I'll weigh in every now and then.

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SpicyMikey

Congrats Mike. I had a feeling you already made up your mind 4 days ago.

Definitely pop in and let us know how it's going. I'm interested in the Lexus LS myself when I get old (just kidding)

Karl_in_Chicago

Agreed - looking forward to reading posts of your LS experiences Mike.

Rob144

That was me! That was me! I could just sense it sucking you in!

I was just in Palm Desert, and boy did I see a lot of new LS's driving around. But I also saw more RL's than I've seen in a single day, including one from Canada (I had to peek inside to see the cooled seating switches....sigh).

Do weigh in with your LS experience. It's certainly a better looking machine than the one it replaced.

What color did you get? The prevailing color I've seen has been silver.

Rob144

larrynimmo

with all sincerety Mike, While I have often said the Acura RL is the best value for the money...I feel the LS is the best value for the money. (different cars, different money) Don't be completely surprised when i get a new car in 4 years if my choice isn't an LS...time will tell.

Mike_TX

Thanks, guys.

The color I'm getting, Rob, is called "Smoky Granite Mica", which is a fancy name for a deep metallic charcoal (next worst thing to black ). Interior is something called "Alabaster", which is a light cream color.

I had Smoky Granite on my IS350, and it's a pretty good color. The alternatives (black, white, silver or red) just didn't do it for me, so I guess I'm on my 5th consecutive dark grey car.

By going from 2 cars to one, I'm actually saving about $125 a month, and still doing it in style, so I guess you can justify most anything, huh. In any case, I'm still an Acura guy for a week or two more.

And a funny story ... I'm standing in the showroom waiting for the finance guy to be ready, and a man is looking at an LS there. He tells me his wife actually wants a TL, and I tell him I had one before and in fact now have 2 other Acuras. So he says, "Boy, don't you like that navigation they have? That's the biggest drawback of these Lexuses."

"Ain't that the truth", I replied.

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neuronbob

Hmmm....I'll think about it....just kidding.

Congrats! The LS is definitely a great next step up.

Mike_TX

Oh, puh-leeze. Don't patronize me. I know how you feel about the Lexus ... Just kidding you back.

Thanks, Bob. I promise not to be any more of a nuisance than I've always been.

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Chas2

Sorry to see you go Mike, but congrats on the new ride! I sat in a couple of 460s at the San Diego autoshow, in part because of your posts. I have to say the long wheel base version almost felt like the factory Cadillac limousines I used to drive!

Great car. You have to let us know if that parallel parking thing really works!

gdevine

Geez going to miss your various trip analysis of the RL. My sister has a 460. loves the car but hates the nav. She says they get lost more than to the destination. She took a ride in my RL a couple of months ago and could not believe the HFL and nav stating maybe I'll get a RL next time. She does have a 2005 so it must be an improved Nav by now.

Enjoy the LS it truly is a luxurious ride.

BTW what radar detector are you going to get for the LS?

NightRider

Congratulations on the LS, they are definitely nice cars. I have driven a last gen 430 and it seems Lexus across the model line has started to drift away from the bland/no character/boring grandpa boat mobiles and added some sport and character to their cars.

Funny you say that about comparing th RL and LS, because it is somewhat true...BUT at the same time according to cars.com the starting MSRP of an 08 LS is $62k, compared with $86k for the S Class ($24k difference) and $75 for the 7 series. So, the LS is a hell of a deal in it's own class. I find it interesting that over the past 7 or 8 years, concerning standard flagships it seems BMW and Lexus have leveled the playing field with MB, yet are working their prices downward while MB seems to still be working theirs upward. Even with this being said, for exterior styling I still prefer MB, then Lexus, then BMW. Based on this information plus reliability factors, if I was in this market I would definitely have Lexus at the top of my list. I am surprised the LS isn't offered with AWD and the LWB model is $10k more? It seems they could offer AWD and have a better hold on the market while still only increasing price by a couple thousand per car?

I think the LS definitely has the RL beat in legroom, I believe the LS has a different platform than the GS (and therefore a good size wheelbase), while the RL is barely bigger in most interior dimensions than the TL and has the same platform. IMO that is one of the reasons the RL has not sold very well is that it's too similar to the TL to justify the price difference for most. With the redesigns for both I would think if H/A was smart the TL will define itself as more mid size instead of S/M niche while the RL will define itself as more full size instead of M/F niche. More power and better performance in both along with SH AWD in the TL will help with this. 6AT couldn't hurt either.

jhr3uva90

The Lexus LS is more comparable to the Mercedes S class than to the Acura RL. The Lexus GS is more comparable to the RL.

larrynimmo

the LS has 1.5" more leg room in the front & in the back....in otherwords, if you set your front seat in the same place (as you would with your RL) it gives your backseat group an extra 3" as price. The seat backs are also thicker allowing for a longer distance yet from the front to rear passangers giving a more spacious feel.

VOdoc

Mike,

Somehow deep down I knew there was a reason behind your "extended test drive." Congrats on your choice.

You'll make 2 other future Acura owners happy via your trades--we all know you take great care of your cars! And whenever Acura really gets it together to compete with Lexus head-to-head, we'll look for you back here in a few years (once you've had a taste of that navi).

Always a pleasure to read your posts with their combination of wisdom and humor. Don't be a stranger.

P.S. I promise to refrain from calling your new baby a super-Camry. At least I'll try real hard!

vlam

I don't own either car but I've been in both (LS460 L and RL). Not sure about the regular LS460 but the L, well there is no comparison to the RL.

BTW, no way is the LS460 a 5 passenger car. That hump in the back is big! An adult would feel weird sitting in the middle.

In any case, the LS460 and RL are not in the same league and I don't think they are meant to compete with one another. They may be the 2 top car for the brand but it doesn't mean they are in direct competition.

Mike_TX

Many thanks, VODoc.

I have to tell you guys it's with a good bit of regret that I turn over the reins of the RL (and MDX) to someone else in exchange for the LS. Not that the LS is a shabby ride or anything, but I truly HAVE enjoyed the RL. It's a pretty remarkable car and a treat to drive.

But the main part of my motivation was to consolidate 2 cars into one, and the end-of-year promos were just too enticing to put it off longer, I guess. I'll also admit I wasn't having as much fun driving the MDX as I had thought. It's an excellent vehicle in its own right, but I've discovered I'm not an SUV guy, and driving a big box around just isn't my cup of tea.

Add to that the need to haul around an elderly mother-in-law, and some rowdy grandkids, and I just often needed a bit more room than the RL offered. And for road trips, that extra room will be handy, too.

As for the nav, the Lexus Gen V system isn't bad, except for the ridiculous lockout. I had it in my short-lived IS350, and the one in the LS is now HDD-based and even better. But it still isn't as good as the Acura system and I hope I don't end up throwing things at it.

And gdevine - I'll just transfer the Passport 8500 X-5 over to the Lex. My wife may inherit the "regular" 8500 for her Caddy.

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SpicyMikey

MikeTX, I'm considering an IS250 AWD for my daughter as a graduation present. It'll either be that or the new TSX SHAWD. We all know how great the SHAWD is. But, let us know the truth about the Lexus NAV, VR, and Bluetooth, after you've experienced it a bit. To me, those are real safety features rather then convenience features. It will be a influencing factor in deciding which car I get her.

Mike_TX

Mikey, the LS nav is a little different from the IS nav, in that the LS is HDD-based and the IS is still DVD, AFAIK.

But since I had an IS350 for awhile, I can tell you the Acura nav is superior. The graphics are more colorful and a little easier on the eyes, and there's no "grey out" of functions. On my IS, I could still do the tap-tap workaround and get full functionality, but even that's been blocked now. So POI's will display only 4 or 5 instead of a full listing.

I didn't really have any trouble with the IS's VR, but it did misunderstand me a little more. When it does, the nav lady says "Pardon?" LOL.

The BT in my IS worked pretty well. It would take spoken numbers fine and hooked up well. It would also take voice tags and you could access a partial phonebook while moving. I don't know about the voice quality on the other end, but in the car it sounded fine.

The only caution I have about the IS is that you should drive it a good bit before committing. The ride in my IS350 was so harsh I dumped it after 3 months (and ate a few thousand bucks in the process!). Cute car, but small inside and brutal ride quality.

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Mike_TX

Mikey, here's a shot of the LS nav display. The IS's looks the same.



As you can see, it's all there, but the white background looks a little stark to me. I much prefer Acura's tan, which is like you see on paper maps.

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Mike_TX

This is really hijacking my own thread, I guess, but speaking of nav's, we just got back from driving an '08 Caddy CTS (which we're considering for the wife). The nav blew me away, especially since GM's stuff has been pretty sad up to now.

The on-screen graphics were the best I've seen anywhere. The little individual streets even appeared to have a little drop shadow that made each one look more 3-D. The colors were great, and everything on the screen just "popped".

And while it does have an in-motion grey-out, it still gives you two screens of POI's while moving ... that's 10 nearby restaurants, motels, gas stations, etc. Not a bad compromise. The VR seemed to work pretty well, too, but the nav lady has a very mechanical voice. She needs to take voice lessons. LOL.

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SpicyMikey

Hmm, interesting feedback about the IS ride quality. I have not driven one yet so I would definitely be doing a testdrive and investigation before hand.

I've been in several TSX's before. The ride isn't bad but the cabin noise is very high. I also don't like the lack of SHAWD in the current TSX. I find that to be a real safety feature and want my baby girl to have it. The TSX wouldn't even be an option except I know it's being fully redesigned and getting SHAWD in May. I think it's a real good option now. I'll need to look closely at both of them.

Thanks for the good feedback Mike. To everyone else; sorry to go off topic. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program

kirbyflorida

I have driven the IS 350 a few times, it is a harsh ride, for sure.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Congrats on the LS its an awesome car. I have an uncle with an 03 LS 430 and man is that car awesome. There is almost no cabin noise in it and it gets great mileage for a V8 and on top of it all it has some serious power.

Did you get the LS L or the short version I know you where comparing the size the to the RL but which LS version was it? And I know you said which options you got but do they include the self parking?

Anyway you are going to be very happy with the new LS.

Mike_TX

Thanks, track. I'm getting the regular wheelbase one, not the L. The self-parking thing is included, but IMO it's a joke. Okay, maybe not a joke, but a gimmick.

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NightRider

SpicMikey is that a graduation from HS or College present? How nice she is lucky...I am sure the TSX SH AWD will be just as great as the IS250 AWD, and probably have more power also. I have driven/ridden in the TSX and ridden in the IS, IS seems slightly higher quality interior yet more cramped IMO. I am 6 ft and couldn't ride in the backseat of the IS without the front seat forward pretty far.

The IS and the TSX both seemed to ride a bit harsh, but they handle well so it depends on the trade off you want.

halfaznguy87

Dang, Infiniti M, Lexus IS, Acura RL, MDX, Caddy (maybe), and now Lexus LS...

Life is good being Mike_TX

Mike_TX

Yep, my debtors love me.

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