OK, I don't have the pic to scan (maybe someone here can help?).

Just got MOTOR TREND. Turn to page 70, lower left corner. What does that pic look like? An Accord? NO! It looks like an RL. I actually thought it was an RL as I flipped the pages.

For those without access to MOTOR TREND, the pic is a head on shot of the new Mercedes C300 (Luxury model). It does appear to me that Mercedes is copying the RL styling cues...at least in that view.

Or maybe is is Mercedes copying the RL which is copying Mercedes?

 

[IMG][/IMG] I know I've heard a lot about how the RL looks like the Accord...and I will say, strait on from the side it does share a 'family resemblance' ... but I recently saw the new Nissan Altima parked right next to an M35... wow... is Nissan design team getting lazy!

I'll try my first attempt at posting here...

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Hope I didn't bone that up

 

I think the Altima looks more like the G35 but I'm surprised how much it also looks like the M35 now that you put the pictures together.

And....the RL looks NOTHING like an Accord. I see zero resemblance.

 

The RL only looks like accord to the ass faced people of south park

 

Agreed.

But has anyone looked at the pic of the new Mercedes C300 from head on (the Luxury model trim)? It screams of RL styling cues to me.

 

I agree too. Many people put down the look of the RL. I always thought the 2gen look was/is a great balance between luxury and sport. I never got that argument. I wouldn't change much in the next go around, maybe a bit longer for backseat leg room

 

To the untrained eye the RL might seem like an Accord, Camry, Altima, etc. But when you really look, scrutinize the body lines and how it flows. Its a gorgeous car w/ flagship written all over it.

Thats one trait I like about it. I can go incognito

 

http://www.mbusa.com/microsite/c-cla.../gallery/index

Look at the head on shot. Then the rear view.

 

I hear enough customers say it looks like an Accord for me to think they're not all fat asses.

I love the front of the RL but the sloping ass of the back does nothing for me.

 

Let's get it straight, the Accord looks like an RL . The Accord body makeover was moved to the RL design after the RL was introduced. Since this is my subjective opinion I will add that, when the RL went 3rd gen, I thought it resembled the Mercedes "E class". Turnabout is fair play! One thing's for sure, lots of cars look alike these days.

 

every car maker borrows cues from others and they all have some form of similarity. It is silly for people to think that MB or BMW or whoever doesn't take cues from other companies. Anyone who thinks MB doesn't copy other brands needs to look at the interior of the S550 which is almost the twin of the 7 series. Anyone who refuses to see that is flat out biased and a MB fanboy.

I could take any mainstream luxury car and find design cues that are like that found on different cars...the point is they all copy each other.

The RL has as much similarity wiht the Accord as the ES350 does with the Camry...meaning not much.

 

Maybe this off topic but here's pic of new cl 600.
Look at the tail lights looks like our RL.

 

Not only that, but the Mercedes CLK looks like an RL coupe.

And the U.S. Honda Accord is supposed to resemble an RL. In Japan it is sold as the Inspire, which is one step below the Legend.

 

not trying to be an ass or anything, but what i don't get is why is the Inspire higher than the Accord(TSX) in japan, but it's under Honda as the US Accord? and why is the JDM Accord in Acura, and it has HIDs while the Inspire does not, and rides better as well? it seems mind bloggling to me. the old TLs, the one before the redesigned 04 ones, they were called the Inspire in japan..somehow they did some weird switch..maybe..the older US Accords(97 ones) were suppose to resemble the TSX now? i kind of see some resemblance

 

I agree with the confusion of the Honda / Acura flip flopping of models.

The TSX and RL are truly Hondas to the rest of the world. The US Accord is exported to Japan. I think the crossover between brands does create some confusion in the branding. Although I think there is family resemblances in styling a(as do all brands, I can rarely tell Volvos, Saab or Mercedes models apart at first glance), there should be more branding definition in the styling. If Honda inserts a Honda model into Acura, it 'confuses' the distinction of the Acura brand.

I believe the future of Acura lies in Acura designing its vehicles exclusively, and likely manufactured by Honda of North America. Not a bad thing as it will allow Acura to become more distinct from parent Honda. Personally, however, I prefer the vehicles be assembled in Japan as the standards seem higher to me. having Being a TL to RL convert, I can attest to the assembly quality of the RL over the TL.

Even Lexus builds in Japan to aspire those quaility standards over US built Toyotas. But as we read, even Lexus is having quality issues.

I do not see Acura having exclusive assembly of its models, but I do expect the push to design it's own models near fruition. Hopefully that will better solidify the Acura style and brand from Honda.

 

My RL has been mistaken for an Accord a number of times. On the other hand, one day I had lunch at a sushi restaurant with valet parking. I gave the parking attendant my key fob and he handed me a ticket. This is the ticket you're suppose to give him on the way out so he can retrieve the car. Anyhow, as I was having lunch, I noticed he had written the following down on the ticket:

Make: Acura

Model: TL

Color: Black


Aside from the Acura symbol, I don't see too much resemblance with the TL. Plus, the letters "RL" are plastered right on the trunk. End of story, I could have had a TL waiting for me after lunch was over. That would've sucked. I'm just glad he managed to bring back the RL despite writing down the wrong model.

 

It's not as much the resemblance as model recognition. The Alpha or Alpha Numeric naming conventions Acura is sadly follows just does not get the rare RL on the radar. I would guess MOST valets have auto interest. And likely the TL is on this guys radar as 'the' Acura model (maybe even an RSX or TSX). The RL is a wha? You might as well call this car the 457.3A-4 for the impression it makes. Tax codes get more recognition (and fear) from people than 'RL'.

As we all discuss, the name LEGEND would get on more people's radar, and perhaps retrieve some of Acura's early day recognition as a premium brand. I myself have plenty of overseas associates who immediately recognize my car as a LEGEND, but virtually no Americans know wha da heck an RL is.

 

I'm sure you removed your key from the fob and handed the rest to the valet guy, right?

 

Anyone know how to post an mp3 file here? I was thinking of heading into the voiceover studio this weekend with some ideas in mind for a new approach to Acura radio spots...stay tuned...

VOdoc

 

Funny...I've always sort of liked nicely rounded rear ends.

Seriously, the rear sheet metal of the RL is much better designed than the TL, and to my eye looks a lot like an E-class or S-class Mercedes. The TL looks best in dark colors, as the functional but odd-looking cutaways on the outboard part of the bumper are glaringly obvious in, say, silver. The TL has a much nicer front grille than the RL OTOH. If Acura were to put the Honda Legend grille in the RL (with Acura badging of course), it would significantly improve the look.

 

+1

 

The trend for most car butts is a rear end that goes upward as it meets the trunklid. A car may come with a lip spoiler to enhance this a la BMW M3/M5.

The CL has a big ass from the factory:



A nice car but add a lip spoiler and the look changes:



This is why I like the RL lip spoiler. Car butts just look better, IMO, if they end in an upward motion at the top of the trunk.

 

My wife has mistaken my RL for a black Honda Accord once. This was during the evening and the accord was parked next to my RL. What can you do....

 

Divorce?

(j/k)

 

To start out with, Honda tried to have ONE Accord for the entire world, but that didn't work. The 1994-1997 model Accord had one design for the world, but it was smaller and sportier than its predecessor. While Europe and Japan liked that design, Americans were not that please with a smaller Accord with a slightly harsher ride. That is why the Accord in the US has been a different car from the Euro/Japanese model ever since the 1998 model year.

The second-generation TL (1999 - 2003) was designed in Japan, but built in the US. It was then shipped over to Japan to be sold as the Inspire. The current TL (2004 - ) was designed in California and manufactured in Ohio. It is not being shipped to Japan. Why? Probably because the Japanese are not that pleased with the new TL's design. So the Japanese-designed, American built Accord became the new Inspire. Since the same people designed the Inspire and Legend and since the Inspire is meant to be the car directly below the Legend (it is Inspired to become a Legend), the cars resemble. Also, since the same people also designed the previous-Inspire (old Acura TL), it also resembles the Legend/RL.

So why is the Japanese Accord the Acura TSX in the US? Remember what I mentioned earlier about the 1994 Accord? Your average US Accord buyer might not be interested in something small, sporty, and gadget-laden like the Japanese Accord. However, your average Acura buyer IS interested in such a car. That is why the Japanese Accord is sold over here as an Acura. Besides, Acura needed a new entry-level sedan and it was cheaper to modify the Japanese Accord than to design a new car.

Finally, I have a concern about the new Acura design studio. The new Lexus design studio, the one that came up with the L-Finesse design language, is based in Japan. Acura's new design studio will be based in California. I don't know how well an American design aesthetic, particularly a Californian one, will appeal to car enthusiasts overseas. I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

Lexus roots in L-Finesse are not so pure. L-Finesse was introduced to Lexus with it's first generation GS. That design was not done by Lexus, it was purchased from a Jaguar design suitor. The Italian designer who initiated the design we now call L-Finesse was designing the GS as a Jaguar sedan. Jaguar passed on it, and Lexus, interested in expanding on it's initial North American appeal, decided it was an opportunity to introduce European design into a now well recieved Japanese luxury product.

It is now the benchmark design for all Lexus sedans. Acura, is trying to find it's way with it's own unique style, and hence the Design studios. Likely future Acura designs will still be built in concert with Honda NA assembly plants, so there will still be Honda influences, particularly in what lies below the sheetmetal. And giving credit where it is due, SHAWD is a HONDA product that Acura is captializing upon for the benchmark of it's drivetrains.

But at least Acura is recognizing a need for a unique brand style. (some of the concepts worry me ) The current infusion of Honda global models into the Acura brand is not propping Acura as a high end brand. The TSX and TL have made good strides in the middle market, or near luxury segments.

If there is conflict with Honda over the LEGEND name, they should should down badge an Acura LEGEND for Honda. This is what Lexus does. In markets where Lexus does not have a foothold, they offer Lexus models as a rebadged Toyota. A Toyota buyer will respect a rebadged Lexus over a Lexus model that is a rebadged Toyota. It also introduces the higher end model into a market that my support the Lexus brand. Hyundai is considering this approach with the future Genesis model. It may launch a highend Hyundai brand. Mazda tried this with the Millenia (to have been an 'Amati'), but never followed through.

The RL is a Honda flagship, not an Acura flagship. They are designed for different markets, with different expectations of a flagship. Acura (or Honda) poorly projected the RL in the overlap of appeal with these two destination markets and the subsequent zealous sales projections of th RL. Fortunately for me, I'm happy as a clam with a Honda LEGEND, even if it was left off the party invite to Acura.

 

Acura made those projections and the media mis-represented it. That's why companies should keep their projections to themselves whenever possible.

Also, I think you might have Lexus backwards. Toyota doesn't market certain Toyotas as re-badged Lexuses. Instead Lexus are simply re-badged Toyotas. The Lexus name didn't even exist in Japan until August 2005. What were those cars up until then? Toyotas. In most of the world, the cars we call Lexus are called Toyota. It just so happens that we in North America love fancy brand names and the Japanese obliged us by re-naming Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans into Acuras, Lexuses, and Infinitis. That being said, at least Toyota gives some of their Lexuses unique platforms, which is something I would like Honda to do.

I've had an RL of 2 years now and I still don't think of it as a true flagship. An S class is a TRUE flagship, so is the 7 series. The RL, on the other hand, is just a very good luxury car, perhaps the only real luxury car Acura has. Funny how Acura wants to be taken seriously as a luxury brand, but their only real luxury car was the one they had the least involvement with. Compared to the RL, the TL isn't all that well built plus it is stuck with FWD. The TSX is an Accord. The other Acuras are trucks built on car platforms. Again, if Acura wants to be considered a "real" luxury brand, they need real luxury cars and dealerships that can support and sell those cars.

And I don't think Honda Japan had high expectations for RL sales in the US. They just want to be able to sell basically the same model around the world like they did with the 1994 Accord. The increases utilization of the assembly line and enhance the economy of scale for the Legend/RL.

 

Did Acura ever promote itself as a "real" luxury brand? I've never noticed that. I've seen a lot about Advance, Technology, and in the past, Precision and Performance. I like the idea of 'near luxury' with some performance and tech thrown in.

 

The problem is that in general, people tend to be reluctant to spend $45K+ on a non-luxury brand. That's Acura's problem.

 

On top of that, it doesn't help to have a car that looks much like its less expensive sibling we all know and love. :wink: ...at least based on what many people think as evidenced by so many threads on here.

 

In fairness to the Lexus brand their "rebadged" vehicles all come with outstanding service which is second to none- I think everyone agrees with this. Their service facilities are quite outstanding consistantly everywhere. I love my Acura service dept., but others complain about theirs- Acura is hit or miss.

In comparison to their Toyota counterpart, besides the different badge Lexus vehicles have, they also have nicer leather, better suspension systems, better sound systems, overall much nicer and richer interiors. Hey, I'm a huge Acura fan, but if I were looking for a larger luxury car the LS would be on my short list.

 

Also, have you ever seen a Toyota Camry and a Lexus ES of the same year next to each other? They look like sisters! That doesn't hurt sales of either car, though.

 

Having just gotten through the "process" of getting a new car I can say this while everything is fresh in my mind.

1) The Lexus GS interior (quality comfort ) was nothing spectacular over the RL. Aside from an extra inch in the back seat, I decided I liked the RL better after sitting in both.

2) After much research and a GREAT tool at TrueDelta.com I found the RL to be a better value. That was even WITHOUT the dealer incentive of $3500

My conclusions (by the way, I am a Toyota fan and own a Sienna XLE Limited); The Acura was a better step up/value from the Honda then the Lexus was from Toyota.

By the way, I think we can all agree the LS is in a different class. We can't compare that to the RL. However, my sister just went car shopping last year and looked at the LS short body and the MB-S class. She ended up buying the S. Not sure I agree with her decision (she's been in the shop three times already), however, I do agree that LS is way overpriced and "value" is less of a factor when comparing it to German cars. Has anyone seen the LS sales numbers? I don't know them but I have to say this; I see a boat load more S's on the road around me then LS's. I think I 've seen one in a month.

 

I think both S-class and LS are overpriced. But if I have to choose, I'd get LS over the S-class for its reliability. Still, I can't deny that the new S-class looks sexy. The front of the LS doesn't do it for me. It looks too bland.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the current S-class came out way before the new LS. So, I'm not surprised that you see more S out there aside from the fact that they're selling a lot of those (always has been). I have also seen quite a few LS' and starting to see more and more as days go by.

 

I agree that the LS is in a different class. I think both the S Class and LS are stunning cars? Are they overpriced? Well logically speaking paying that much money for transportation doesn't make sense. You can make the same argument for the RL, but these kinds of purchases aren't really logical.