Just drove a 2006 GS300 AWD
02-22-2006, 01:50 PM
#1
office monkey
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Just drove a 2006 GS300 AWD
My dad took in their LS430 and got a GS300 AWD as a loaner and brought it back to our office. I took it for a spin since I have not driven the GS and have been curious how it fairs vs my 05 RL. This 300 AWD was equipped with one package (not fully loaded with ML system and nav) but its price came to the EXACT price of the RL here. EXACT. Before I give my findings I should note it apparently had winter tires on it so obviously it wasnt at its optimal handling ability. Here's what I found:
-the GS is quieter at speed but at idle it has more vibration and is louder than the RL.
-the gauges are cool as the cover for them can tint based on light which makes them not wash out. I wish the RL's gauges had this feature. Aside from that, as cool as the brushed aluminum backing and optitron lighting is, I prefer the RL's gauges.
-the stereo didn't sound as good but again it wasn't the ML system.
-didn't find the seats to be as comfortable nor offer as much support as the RL seats. I also found the rear seats to offer more support than the front seats. Weird.
-the steering is super light. I swear it is as light or lighter than the steering found on the LS. I dunno if this is on all GS models or just the AWD but man, please give me less lightness. Anyone who says the RL's steering is very light needs to drive this car and see what light is on a sports sedan.
-the engine had decent pep but not as much as the RLs.
-the car feels like it weighs more than the RL but apparently it doesn't. To me the RL doesnt feel its size (the RL is almost the same size as the LS430) but the GS does.
-the heated/ventilated seats seemed no better than the RLs.
-interior material quality didn't seem better than the RL and prolly is slightly inferior overall. I was disappointed with the wood trim. It looks funky compared to past Lexus models. It seemed like it was plastic and not wood. RL's wood is much nicer.
-The headrests are CHEAP. I expect headrests like that on a 25K car not one that is 70K here.
-it didnt have too much body roll. It got a bit loose on the off-ramp that I was taking at around 80-90kms but that may have been because of the winter tires which I didnt know it had until afterward. I still would feel more comfortable taking high speed turns in the RL than this even if it had its regular rubber.
-I don't care much for touch screen displays. I prefer the system the RL uses because I don't have to look at the screen while with the touchscreen you have to look at it.
-button layout is a bit funky compared to previous Lexus models. I didn't like the hidden button panel thing to the left of the driver. It is a silly design and half the switches are blocked by the steering wheel so you need to move your head to the left to see wtf is down there.
-the headroom seemed less than the RL especially in the back. As for legroom in the rear, the GS didnt have more than the RL.
-the 6 speed tranny is better.
-the AWD version has a retarded hump that protrudes into the driver footwell. The AWD IS250 I drove last year also had this and it is annoying.
-the interior of the RL is just flat out nicer looking.
-it does have features I am familiar with (power folding mirrors, auto wipers, smoother power tilt/telescope on steering wheel, poarking sensors) that I wish the RL had but they don't make up for all the areas it is inferior to the RL.
Overall there is NO DOUBT the RL is the superior car. You get more for the same price. Slap on the nav and ML system and the AWD 300 is like 7 grand more and it still wouldn't be on par with the RL.
I love Lexus but this car flat out isn't as good as the RL. I know many Lexus fans trashed (or still trash) the RL and act like the GS is great but I am POSITIVE that if the new GS was the exact car the RL is they'd LOVE IT. Basically they are just being biased.
No doubt most of the GS sales are for the GS300 RWD and AWD models and it once again proves to me that sales numbers mean jackshit when determing which is a better car. Yeah it sucks for Acura but anyone who thinks the GS is superior to the RL because it is selling better is NUTS.
-the GS is quieter at speed but at idle it has more vibration and is louder than the RL.
-the gauges are cool as the cover for them can tint based on light which makes them not wash out. I wish the RL's gauges had this feature. Aside from that, as cool as the brushed aluminum backing and optitron lighting is, I prefer the RL's gauges.
-the stereo didn't sound as good but again it wasn't the ML system.
-didn't find the seats to be as comfortable nor offer as much support as the RL seats. I also found the rear seats to offer more support than the front seats. Weird.
-the steering is super light. I swear it is as light or lighter than the steering found on the LS. I dunno if this is on all GS models or just the AWD but man, please give me less lightness. Anyone who says the RL's steering is very light needs to drive this car and see what light is on a sports sedan.
-the engine had decent pep but not as much as the RLs.
-the car feels like it weighs more than the RL but apparently it doesn't. To me the RL doesnt feel its size (the RL is almost the same size as the LS430) but the GS does.
-the heated/ventilated seats seemed no better than the RLs.
-interior material quality didn't seem better than the RL and prolly is slightly inferior overall. I was disappointed with the wood trim. It looks funky compared to past Lexus models. It seemed like it was plastic and not wood. RL's wood is much nicer.
-The headrests are CHEAP. I expect headrests like that on a 25K car not one that is 70K here.
-it didnt have too much body roll. It got a bit loose on the off-ramp that I was taking at around 80-90kms but that may have been because of the winter tires which I didnt know it had until afterward. I still would feel more comfortable taking high speed turns in the RL than this even if it had its regular rubber.
-I don't care much for touch screen displays. I prefer the system the RL uses because I don't have to look at the screen while with the touchscreen you have to look at it.
-button layout is a bit funky compared to previous Lexus models. I didn't like the hidden button panel thing to the left of the driver. It is a silly design and half the switches are blocked by the steering wheel so you need to move your head to the left to see wtf is down there.
-the headroom seemed less than the RL especially in the back. As for legroom in the rear, the GS didnt have more than the RL.
-the 6 speed tranny is better.
-the AWD version has a retarded hump that protrudes into the driver footwell. The AWD IS250 I drove last year also had this and it is annoying.
-the interior of the RL is just flat out nicer looking.
-it does have features I am familiar with (power folding mirrors, auto wipers, smoother power tilt/telescope on steering wheel, poarking sensors) that I wish the RL had but they don't make up for all the areas it is inferior to the RL.
Overall there is NO DOUBT the RL is the superior car. You get more for the same price. Slap on the nav and ML system and the AWD 300 is like 7 grand more and it still wouldn't be on par with the RL.
I love Lexus but this car flat out isn't as good as the RL. I know many Lexus fans trashed (or still trash) the RL and act like the GS is great but I am POSITIVE that if the new GS was the exact car the RL is they'd LOVE IT. Basically they are just being biased.
No doubt most of the GS sales are for the GS300 RWD and AWD models and it once again proves to me that sales numbers mean jackshit when determing which is a better car. Yeah it sucks for Acura but anyone who thinks the GS is superior to the RL because it is selling better is NUTS.
02-22-2006, 06:01 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
But the RL doesn't have a V8 option... 
that excuse is so tired and worthless. i haven't seen many GS43s or M45s on the road, if at all.
02-22-2006, 07:53 PM
#4
Couple comments:
Stereo - from my IS, the RL's stereo is superior.
Wood trim - yup, Acura did that right. It is MUCH better than the wood in the IS and GS.
In the GS, I actually preferred the leather to the RL.
If I were in the market again for a larger car, I would definately buy the RL over the GS...(I went to the IS because I wanted something smaller and more fun to drive)
Stereo - from my IS, the RL's stereo is superior.
Wood trim - yup, Acura did that right. It is MUCH better than the wood in the IS and GS.
In the GS, I actually preferred the leather to the RL.
If I were in the market again for a larger car, I would definately buy the RL over the GS...(I went to the IS because I wanted something smaller and more fun to drive)
02-22-2006, 08:06 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Regarding a V8 option, I think Acura's spokespeople were correct when they asserted that only 10% of the cars in this class sell with a V8. The main reason why cars in this class have a V8 engine is the spread the cost of the engine with their larger, full-size counterparts. For example, the Lexus LS, GS, and SC have the same V8 engine, which spreads the cost. The Infiniti Q, M, and FX have the same V8 engine, which spreads the cost. If Acura created a V8 engine at this time, the RL would be the only Acura with that engine, which would not make business sense.
However, I believe that Acura will release an NSX replacement with a V10 engine. I also believe that the V10 engine will also go into a full-size flagship and possibly and SUV, which will spread the cost. That's sometime in the future, though. Right now, if I were Acura, I would consider a FWD RL so that the dealers would be happy, particularly those in parts of the country where it is warm and flat and the customers don't think SH-AWD is necessary.
However, I believe that Acura will release an NSX replacement with a V10 engine. I also believe that the V10 engine will also go into a full-size flagship and possibly and SUV, which will spread the cost. That's sometime in the future, though. Right now, if I were Acura, I would consider a FWD RL so that the dealers would be happy, particularly those in parts of the country where it is warm and flat and the customers don't think SH-AWD is necessary.
02-22-2006, 08:59 PM
#6
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
Regarding a V8 option, I think Acura's spokespeople were correct when they asserted that only 10% of the cars in this class sell with a V8. The main reason why cars in this class have a V8 engine is the spread the cost of the engine with their larger, full-size counterparts. For example, the Lexus LS, GS, and SC have the same V8 engine, which spreads the cost. The Infiniti Q, M, and FX have the same V8 engine, which spreads the cost. If Acura created a V8 engine at this time, the RL would be the only Acura with that engine, which would not make business sense.
However, I believe that Acura will release an NSX replacement with a V10 engine. I also believe that the V10 engine will also go into a full-size flagship and possibly and SUV, which will spread the cost. That's sometime in the future, though. Right now, if I were Acura, I would consider a FWD RL so that the dealers would be happy, particularly those in parts of the country where it is warm and flat and the customers don't think SH-AWD is necessary.
However, I believe that Acura will release an NSX replacement with a V10 engine. I also believe that the V10 engine will also go into a full-size flagship and possibly and SUV, which will spread the cost. That's sometime in the future, though. Right now, if I were Acura, I would consider a FWD RL so that the dealers would be happy, particularly those in parts of the country where it is warm and flat and the customers don't think SH-AWD is necessary.
As for the OP, I haven't had any time in the new GS so I can't comment.
02-22-2006, 09:30 PM
#7
good point, J35 is used on many honda products, such as pilot, ody, mdx etc. but im not sure if a v10 would make it on an RL....i mean...thats kinda M5 territory. Maybe a hybrid high output V6?
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02-22-2006, 09:35 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
And even if you could put a V10 on an RL, there's no way in hell you can put that type of engine with a FWD car. Can you imagine the level of torque steer if the TL had a V10?
02-23-2006, 12:07 AM
#9
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NO, it will be replaced with a V8. The same V8 that they're going to use in the next ridgeline. For the NSX, is the only Honda car to use a vtec V10, which is not totally confirmed yet. The platform will change as well for the RL when it gets the V8(chassis, drivetrain, platform, etc..)
02-23-2006, 08:00 AM
#10
office monkey
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I also agree with Vik that the RL's leather is superior to the GS.
I drove it more last night and it handles alright. There "might" be less roll than in the RL but it is hard to say. Still, no doubt you can take turns quicker in the RL.
The cheap looking/feeling wood trim boggles my mind. The wood on my folks' 01 LS430 is sweet. Hell, the tiny bits of wood on my 2001 IS300 was sweet. Even on the new IS it seems more wood like than the GS trim which looks and feels like plastic since it is so lacquered up. WTF?
I prefer the new IS over the GS without question and I laugh at the fact some honestly think the GS is superior to the RL. A V8 engine option can only take you so far...
The biggest thing the GS had over the RL is that it is quieter at speed but it still isn't LS430 style quiet. Oh and the center console between the seats in the RL should have some wood or something. It looks too cheap and out of place.
Oh and I still love that tinting thing for the optitron gauges. That rules and it was sunny today and yesterday afternoon and no probs with washout.
If the new GS is considered a good bargain at its current price (I dunno if it is considered that in the automotive industry) then the RL is a STEAL.
I drove it more last night and it handles alright. There "might" be less roll than in the RL but it is hard to say. Still, no doubt you can take turns quicker in the RL.
The cheap looking/feeling wood trim boggles my mind. The wood on my folks' 01 LS430 is sweet. Hell, the tiny bits of wood on my 2001 IS300 was sweet. Even on the new IS it seems more wood like than the GS trim which looks and feels like plastic since it is so lacquered up. WTF?
I prefer the new IS over the GS without question and I laugh at the fact some honestly think the GS is superior to the RL. A V8 engine option can only take you so far...
The biggest thing the GS had over the RL is that it is quieter at speed but it still isn't LS430 style quiet. Oh and the center console between the seats in the RL should have some wood or something. It looks too cheap and out of place.
Oh and I still love that tinting thing for the optitron gauges. That rules and it was sunny today and yesterday afternoon and no probs with washout.
If the new GS is considered a good bargain at its current price (I dunno if it is considered that in the automotive industry) then the RL is a STEAL.
02-23-2006, 09:50 AM
#11
Three Wheelin'
I agree that the RL is a steal. The GS with AWD has a starting MSRP of over $45K and that's without a navigation system, bluetooth support, satellite radio, or even a moon roof!
The problem is that Acura isn't getting the word out that it is a better deal and many of the salesmen in the showrooms have no idea how to sell this car.
The problem is that Acura isn't getting the word out that it is a better deal and many of the salesmen in the showrooms have no idea how to sell this car.
02-23-2006, 11:20 AM
#12
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I agree with all your observations. I preferred the inside cabin of the GS slightly over the RL but the differences were minor.
The RL is better to drive. But the GS looks better externally IMO.
And if and when they bring the GS350 to North America, game over
The RL is better to drive. But the GS looks better externally IMO.
And if and when they bring the GS350 to North America, game over
02-23-2006, 11:36 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
What would the hp on the GS 350 be?
02-23-2006, 12:43 PM
#14
office monkey
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
I agree that the RL is a steal. The GS with AWD has a starting MSRP of over $45K and that's without a navigation system, bluetooth support, satellite radio, or even a moon roof!
The problem is that Acura isn't getting the word out that it is a better deal and many of the salesmen in the showrooms have no idea how to sell this car.
The problem is that Acura isn't getting the word out that it is a better deal and many of the salesmen in the showrooms have no idea how to sell this car.
All I know is I hope the new LS doesn't follow the GS in terms of overall package because that will sadden me as the current LS is IMO a work of art. Thankfully the new IS was good (just costs a bit too much here...IMO) so hopefully the GS being the first car of their current design/path was just a fluke. Guess we will see with the new ES350 as I believe it is coming out before the LS460.
So many ergonomic issues with the GS interior that is so un-Lexus like.
Oh and that hidden control panel with many secondary controls is downright asinine. I had to adjust my mirrors last night right before merging onto the highway and it pissed me off where the controls are since I had to move my head to the left to see wtf button I was about to push since the steering wheel blocks 90% of the frickin panel.
Does anyone know if Lexus has a new person(s) who designs the button/interior layouts?
02-23-2006, 01:01 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Lexus is a MUCH bigger name than Acura, unfortunately. I was tempted to switch over the Lexus just because of that. People who know little about cars are more likely to recognize Lexus over Acura.
I don't think Lexus has a new design person per se as much as a new design language called Lexus Finesse (LF). All the LF-derived vehicles (starting with the GS) will have a certain look on the inside and out. The hidden control panel is Lexus' way of attempting to simplify. Some people like it, but a lot of people don't. Remember, Lexus sells to a lot of soccer moms who might not be comfortable with too many lights and buttons
I don't think Lexus has a new design person per se as much as a new design language called Lexus Finesse (LF). All the LF-derived vehicles (starting with the GS) will have a certain look on the inside and out. The hidden control panel is Lexus' way of attempting to simplify. Some people like it, but a lot of people don't. Remember, Lexus sells to a lot of soccer moms who might not be comfortable with too many lights and buttons
02-23-2006, 01:26 PM
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But the problem is the buttons are STILL there, just hidden and that makes it less convenient. It may have been a good diea on paper but it wasnt implemented well. Those who do like it only prolly like it cuz it has a somewhat neat "secret panel" feel to it but I'd rather have those buttons around the car which IMO also helps the asthetics since the GS interior looks very plain which IMO in turn makes it feel less luxurious and expensive. Luxury cars are suppsoed to ahve switches and stuff and not be like your typical econobox with just a big slab of dash plastic
I just peeped the pics of the 460 again and it doesn't have its mirror controls and stuff hidden and it is a lot diff than the GS. So is the IS based on what I remember driving it. Yes they have a similar shape inside but you can see differences. Take the GS door and window and seat memory switches...they are low and I found them not easily reached from my seating position. In the new IS (somewhat) and based on LS pics they are in an easily reachable spot based on where I'd be sitting whihc is how they should be and have been in past Lexus models.
It is like they designed the interior of the GS and saw these silly mistakes and changed it for the other models. IMO that is good because I prefer the IS and LS to it anyway so if they are gonna make some design mistakes I'm glad it was on the GS.
Oh and the reason I asked if they have a new interior designer is because past models have been class leaders in terms of ergonomics and simplicity while the new GS is very un-Lexus like. it's as if someone new designed it not the people who have designed the past models.
As for exterior styling, yeah they have the new style they are using and each cars shares many similarities but IMO the GS is the ugly duckling of the bunch and again, I gotta think they saw the exterior and changed the issues it has for the future models. I think the IS is an amazing looking car (way better in person) and based on pics the new LS looks fantastic and the ES looks pretty good too. To me they all look more alike than the GS does to them.
All I know is I am hoping the new LS continues the streak of incredible LS models. My dad had a 97 LS400 which was awesome and then got a fully loaded 01 LS430 and the LS430 bettered the 400 in almost every way. I'm hoping the 460 betters the 430 in almost every way and doesnt go the way of the GS where it is inferior in many key areas like ergonomics compared to the old GS. Based on pics it looks like it will do what I am hoping as I think its interior is the best I have ever seen.
I just peeped the pics of the 460 again and it doesn't have its mirror controls and stuff hidden and it is a lot diff than the GS. So is the IS based on what I remember driving it. Yes they have a similar shape inside but you can see differences. Take the GS door and window and seat memory switches...they are low and I found them not easily reached from my seating position. In the new IS (somewhat) and based on LS pics they are in an easily reachable spot based on where I'd be sitting whihc is how they should be and have been in past Lexus models.
It is like they designed the interior of the GS and saw these silly mistakes and changed it for the other models. IMO that is good because I prefer the IS and LS to it anyway so if they are gonna make some design mistakes I'm glad it was on the GS.
Oh and the reason I asked if they have a new interior designer is because past models have been class leaders in terms of ergonomics and simplicity while the new GS is very un-Lexus like. it's as if someone new designed it not the people who have designed the past models.
As for exterior styling, yeah they have the new style they are using and each cars shares many similarities but IMO the GS is the ugly duckling of the bunch and again, I gotta think they saw the exterior and changed the issues it has for the future models. I think the IS is an amazing looking car (way better in person) and based on pics the new LS looks fantastic and the ES looks pretty good too. To me they all look more alike than the GS does to them.
All I know is I am hoping the new LS continues the streak of incredible LS models. My dad had a 97 LS400 which was awesome and then got a fully loaded 01 LS430 and the LS430 bettered the 400 in almost every way. I'm hoping the 460 betters the 430 in almost every way and doesnt go the way of the GS where it is inferior in many key areas like ergonomics compared to the old GS. Based on pics it looks like it will do what I am hoping as I think its interior is the best I have ever seen.
02-23-2006, 01:39 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Pardon the pun, but the Lexus LS is truly Legendary. I read a book last year on how Lexus and the LS were created and it is very impressive:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...lance&n=283155
Personally, I hope Acura can someday come up with something equal to the LS, but I kinda doubt it.
And I guess the GS was the car they used for a test case because the first two generations didn't sell that well and Lexus didn't have much to lose anyway.
In a way, Honda/Acura took that approach with the RL and SH-AWD. If SH-AWD doesn't work mechanically or doesn't help sell the car, it isn't a total lost because the RL was never a big seller anyway. But if they had put SH-AWD in the TL first and it affected sales or caused mechanical problems then Acura would have really been hurting.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...lance&n=283155
Personally, I hope Acura can someday come up with something equal to the LS, but I kinda doubt it.
And I guess the GS was the car they used for a test case because the first two generations didn't sell that well and Lexus didn't have much to lose anyway.
In a way, Honda/Acura took that approach with the RL and SH-AWD. If SH-AWD doesn't work mechanically or doesn't help sell the car, it isn't a total lost because the RL was never a big seller anyway. But if they had put SH-AWD in the TL first and it affected sales or caused mechanical problems then Acura would have really been hurting.
02-24-2006, 08:21 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Are there any midsize sedans with AWD and a V8?
02-24-2006, 12:01 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
So none of the Japanese midsize sedans do AWD and V8? Interesting.
02-24-2006, 06:12 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
January 2006 Lexus GS Sales:
GS 300 1699
GS 430 279
So 16.42% of the GS's sales were V8. Now let's say Acura added a V8 RL and it increases sales by 16% (which I personally think would be unlikely). They would have sold 123 V8 RL's in January 2006. As I mentioned earlier, Lexus' V8 engine also goes into the LS 430, LX 430, and SC 430, while Acura's hypothetical V8 would go into just one model. I ask you, would it be worth for Honda to develop and manufacture a V8 engine just so Acura could sell 123 cars in the entire United States of America?
P.S. Infiniti does not break out M45 sales from M35 sales. Instead M35 sales are rolled into M45 sales.
GS 300 1699
GS 430 279
So 16.42% of the GS's sales were V8. Now let's say Acura added a V8 RL and it increases sales by 16% (which I personally think would be unlikely). They would have sold 123 V8 RL's in January 2006. As I mentioned earlier, Lexus' V8 engine also goes into the LS 430, LX 430, and SC 430, while Acura's hypothetical V8 would go into just one model. I ask you, would it be worth for Honda to develop and manufacture a V8 engine just so Acura could sell 123 cars in the entire United States of America?
P.S. Infiniti does not break out M45 sales from M35 sales. Instead M35 sales are rolled into M45 sales.
02-25-2006, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
Pardon the pun, but the Lexus LS is truly Legendary. I read a book last year on how Lexus and the LS were created and it is very impressive:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...lance&n=283155
Personally, I hope Acura can someday come up with something equal to the LS, but I kinda doubt it.
And I guess the GS was the car they used for a test case because the first two generations didn't sell that well and Lexus didn't have much to lose anyway.
In a way, Honda/Acura took that approach with the RL and SH-AWD. If SH-AWD doesn't work mechanically or doesn't help sell the car, it isn't a total lost because the RL was never a big seller anyway. But if they had put SH-AWD in the TL first and it affected sales or caused mechanical problems then Acura would have really been hurting.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/047...lance&n=283155
Personally, I hope Acura can someday come up with something equal to the LS, but I kinda doubt it.
And I guess the GS was the car they used for a test case because the first two generations didn't sell that well and Lexus didn't have much to lose anyway.
In a way, Honda/Acura took that approach with the RL and SH-AWD. If SH-AWD doesn't work mechanically or doesn't help sell the car, it isn't a total lost because the RL was never a big seller anyway. But if they had put SH-AWD in the TL first and it affected sales or caused mechanical problems then Acura would have really been hurting.
02-28-2006, 07:27 PM
#24
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How was the throttle? My friends GS300 (2002), has such a light throttle, that resting your foot on it causes you not only to floor it, but litterally put your foot THROUGH the floor. Same problem?
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